TheNorthCydeRises

If Devin averages that, both Teague and Williams won't average double figures.

That's not what I "see". That was what "was". 20.9 ppg 5.2 asst 4.2 rebs With those totals only going down once Drew took control of the team. In 5 years under Woody, these were his numbers. 21.7 ppg ( on 18.2 shots ) 5.5 asst 4.4 rebs Same 45% FG shooting. Same 37% 3FG shooting. With virtually no one setting up shots for him 60% of the time. He couldn't get it done by himself in the playoffs Even so-called superstars can't get it done by themselves ( ask Carmelo ). Both needed help. Both rarely got it. And JJ didn't get it done nearly enough on his own. If JJ wasn't the player to build around for the Hawks, that's fine. Seven years is long enough. The question now, is Josh Smith the player to build around? Because he's next in line to get the type of max contract that people will be saying that Josh isn't worth, just like JJ. And if we don't land a superstar with our "cap space", Josh becomes "the man". We'll go from ISO Joe, that everybody despised . . . to Spot Up Jumper Josh ( 16.7 shots + 2.5 turnovers = 19.2 ) 18.8 points / 19.2 = .98 points per possession Is that worthy to be built around? Because that's what exactly we're about to do.

In that scenario, the strategy I'd probably use is to choose two top level, high cost players. Then try to find young but talented players before I hit the salary cap. Probably guys who are still in their rookie contracts, but are playing at a high level.Once I got to the point in which my next selection would put me over the salary cap, I'd probably add a high cost vet player that someone overlooked. Then I'd try to find value at the MLE and Bi-Level. Probably add specialist type players with the minimum contracts.( shrugs )

Nothing personal taken. Just telling you that I wasn't an "outsider" . . or at least an outsider to what this process is about. @ AHF . . . even you have to admit that if you did have salary constraints in this process, that this would be a little more of a challenge to construct the type of team that you want. It would create more realistic teams as well. Let's say you had a "Soft" Salary Cap, triggered @ 60 million . . . meaning that once a player obtains someone that puts them over the 60 million mark, the following occurs: a) a player can only choose one MLE player ( making between 5 - 6 million ), then b) a player can only choose one player making the Bi-Level ( making between 2 - 3 million ), then c) only rookie minimum and vet minimum guys can be added. Take your team for example 1st pick: Dwight Howard: 19.26 mill 2nd pick: Tony Parker: 12.5 mill 3rd pick: Andre Iguodala: 14.72 mill STOP You're now at 46.48 million amongst 3 players. You are less than 14 million away from triggering the Soft Salary Cap. Do you STILL add KG at 11.33 mill a year as your 4th pick, bringing your payroll to 57.81 mill? Do you go young, and take Bradley Beal and Enas Kanter as your next 2 picks, before "spulrging" on a higher priced vet free agent to put you over the cap? If you're in "win now" mode, maybe you still add KG. But at that point, you'd have one more pick before the cap is triggered. You'd have to decide between Kevin Martin ( your 6th pick ) and Carlos Boozer ( your 7th pick ). Can't have them both. Then you'd have to add an MLE guy . . then a Bi-Level type guy, before shopping at the Dollar Store to round out the roster. Just a little more challenging to do it with a salary constraint, instead of simply picking whatever players are available. Like I said . . . it was just a suggestion.

Joe Johnson as an Atlanta Hawk: 20.9 ppg on 17.6 shots per game . . . 5.2 asst, 4.2 rebs, 2.5 turnovers per game . . 44.9% shooter . . . 4.1 FT attemps per game . . most of which clinched the game at the end of regulation for the Hawks. Who was Joe Johnson? A guy that was forced to transition from one of the best catch and shoot guys in the game, to one of the most versatile guards in the game on both ends of the floor. And because he never played with another legit PG to get him the ball in the right spots, he had to score almost 60% of his points unassisted. And he still was a 6 time All-Star. Miller was never asked to play PG, SG, and SF . . sometimes in the same game Miller was never asked to defend the PG, SG, and SF positions . . and sometimes even the PF position . . sometimes in the same game Miller was never asked to create his own offense on 60% of his shots. Miller was never asked to be the playmaker on ANY team he played on. Reggie Miller was the greatest catch and shoot guard in the history of the NBA and arguably the most clutch shooter of all time. Reggie Miller played with good passing point guards Vern Fleming ( averaged 6.6 assists per game in the years he played with Miller ) and Mark Jackson ( averaged 8 assists per game in the years he played with Miller ) The main PGs Joe Johnson played with in ATL? - Tyronn Lue ( 3 asst/gm " while playing with JJ in ATL" ) - Speedy Claxton ( 4.2 asst/gm " " ) - Acie Law ( 1.8 asst/gm " " ) - Anthony Johnson ( 4.7 asst/gm " " ) - Mike Bibby ( 4.5 asst/gm " " ) - Jeff Teague ( 2.9 asst/gm " " ) Who was Joe Johnson? A SG/SF that had to create offense for his PGs, instead of his PGs creating offense for himself. Actually, Joe Johnson was advertised as the "Black Larry Bird", because of his versatility as a player. In essence though, he was a 21st century version of Golden St/Sacramento guard Mitch Richmond, a guy like JJ who statistically was a very good SG, but only played on a few teams worth anything . . and no team worth anything during his years in Sacramento. And while he was much more talented than JJ ( and an athletic freak ), he's also a guy that had the benefit of playing with a very good PG in Terry Porter. Had JJ played with an "in his prime" Mike Bibby, maybe things would've been a little different for the Hawks. Instead, he gets Bibby at the tail end of his career, with Bibby giving us 1.5 good years and 1.5 sucky years. Or you're Mitch Richmond . . . as I said earlier . . . a guy with All-Star talent comparable to the two you mentioned above, whose team never properly built the squad around him. So you don't know how good he REALLY could've been. Had he played along a good center or a good PG, maybe Richmond isn't known as a good SG, but is known as a great SG. Does a Richmond - Webber - Bibby squad get to the NBA Finals with Mitch as the focal point of the offense? I know that Richmond was traded for Webber, but had Sacramento had that sort of "Big 3" to throw at people, maybe they play in an NBA Finals or even win a title. Correct. And even those teams build around a big man, needed either a superstar guard/wing, or a couple of all-star players around that big center. The fact is that one player usually doesn't win a title by himself. Not even the great Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant. they need other players in the mix to help them get there. Nope. Instead, you build around Josh Smith I guess. He was forced to be that guy, because of the lack of talent around him. He was forced to go ISO, when the 2nd best offensive option on the team was a Tyronn Lue, or a Jamal Crawford, or a Josh Smith. Instead of doing a combination of going ISO, and playing the type of catch and shoot role that he had in Phoenix, he had to do it all for everybody . . . at least until Horford entered his 2nd year. Then the new coach decides that it's best if the team as a whole take a bigger role in the offense, instead of maximizing the abilities of his All-Star guard. Let's give more 16+ feet jumpshots to Josh Smith, instead of giving more scoring opportunites for your most talented and versatile scorer. If he quickly becomes Ray Allen in Boston ( 16.7 ppg . . 47% FG . . 41% 3FG ), the Nets will be a dangerous team next year, especially when they have a PG that can score 20 ppg and dish out 10 apg, along with a center that can score 20 ppg, and a bunch of role players who can play defense. The funny thing is that Kevin Garnett, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce couldn't win it all by themselves. But when you combine them, and draft a defense/pass happy PG, they beccome champions. The Hawks simply messed up while they had an All-Star SG in their midst. Missed on the 2005 draft with Marvin. Missed on the 2006 draft with Shelden. Had Horford fall into our lap in the 2007 draft, but missed on Acie. Refused to trade either Horford or Smith to bring in a better fitting player. 7 years wasted . . . trying to see if JJ could save us with a bunch of decent, but not star level talent. Trying to see if he could be Lebron ( another guy who couldn't win a title without major help . . and he knew it ). No Camp. The issue isn't/wasn't should the Hawks build around JJ. The issue is why couldn't the Hawks get better talent to play WITH JJ? Many people watching the Hawks had long said that we should've traded some of our talent for either better veteran players or better fitting players. But the Hawks hung onto what they had. And just think, we're still hoping that a guy like Josh Smith reaches his "potential" and becomes an All-Star or superstar. Not only that, we're about to build the team around HIM. Maybe Josh can do more of this to win games for us http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLsHMb-tnNI Because asking him to be the offensive go-to guy at the end of games to keep us close or win a game, isn't in his skill set.

My thing about JJ's contract is that it would become more tradeable as the years progressed . . IF . . his production and efficiency didn't just fall off the face of the Earth. Despite people trying to claim that JJ is in "rapid decline", his play this year spoke to anything but the contrary. He actually had his 2nd most efficient year as a Hawk. And the only reason why his PPG average was down, was because his usage and shot attempts were down. Because JJ doesn't rely on extreme athleticism to do his thing on the court, JJ's game will decline slowly, and be a player somewhere between what Paul Pierce and Michael Finley was at 32 years old. And playing beside Deron may just keep him at borderline All-Star level for the next 3 years. And that's the real tragedy. The fact that we couldn't acquire a high quality, leader type PG after we missed on Deron and Paul, will be the legacy of "The Core". Knight and Sund failed to bring in the type of PG to truly take this team to the next level. And they refused to trade one or two of "the core" to make that happen.

The real truth of the matter is that people ( and management ) are dead set on keeping Josh Smith around here. Because of that, the team really couldn't be re-made unless he or JJ were traded.Regardless of what people think about Pau Gasol, he would've been a guy to swap for Smith, and this team wouldn't have lost a beat . . . and possibly could've gotten better due to us having a legit high and low post scorer. You roll with that team for one year, and see what happens. If it fails, you sell off Gasol and/or JJ, and start from scratch.PG - TeagueG - JenkinsF - JohnsonPF - HorfordC - Gasol6th - ZazaF - IvanG - BlakeC - BensonF - free agentOr say we kept Smith, and just pulled off the Devin Harris for Marvin Williams tradePG - TeagueG - JohnsonF - Smith ( for those of you who want to play him at SF so bad )PF - HorfordC - Zaza6th man - HarrisG - JenkinsF - IvanC - BensonF - free agentEither of those trades keeps us right there in contention. But we chose to trade JJ. That's cool. But we ended up trading him for scraps, which doesn't help this team THIS year. It may help us in the future ( due to "cap space" and "flexibility" ), but it doesn't help us now. The fact that Ferry didn't at least get Marshon Brooks in the deal for JJ, is a failure on his part. The fact is that the ASG not only wanted to get out from under JJ's contract, they wanted to drastically reduce the payroll for this year and for years to come.

Thank you. Because that was the exact link I was about to pull up. Anybody that watches basketball knows that Iggy is a SF and not a PF. Honestly, a lot of these people these days that write basketball blogs, are no more qualified to give an opinion about a subject than you, I or anybody else. But it's obvious that some of these "basketball writers" have no idea what they are talking about. Or they'll skew facts to fit whatever opinion they want to express. That's why I told JTB to do his OWN research concerning this.

Lopez will get better shots with JJ and Deron in the mix. And while his rebounding has always been mediocre, the Nets have two of the highest rebound % guys in the NBA in the form of Kris Humphries and Reggie Evans.And let's keep it real about Zaza. Zaza rebounds a lot of his own misses when he can't finish a lay-up. He played very well ( for him ) last year. 8 points - 8 rebounds - 50% FG . . . that's great for Zaza. Zaza is a solid backup center in the NBA.Meanwhile, Lopez is a top 5 offensive center in the league that teams actually have to prepare for.Lopez > Zaza

And Zaza can't come close to doing this http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=nS4ddNzF4bA Heck, Horford and Smith can't do this in the post.

SMH Camp. Why do this to yourself man?Teague is nowhere near on Deron's level. And Devin Harris isn't on JJ's level. Or did you forget how JJ DESTROYED THE JAZZ last season in that triple OT game?Even when you try to put Josh Smith at SF, he may be a better player overall than Wallace, but he isn't a better SF than Wallace. Horford is better than any PF. And no one is taking Zaza over Lopez, unless they bring up Lopez's propensity to get hurt all the time. But on the floor? Nah. Lopez > Zaza

LOL @ "an outsider". Check the # of posts and my Hawksquawk seniority date. I'm not an outsider. I've just been neglecting the Squawk for about a year or two. I actually participated in this last summer when someone disappeared and stopped picking players. I scanned through some of the teams and was like "some of these guys have 90 million dollar payrolls."

For you "designers" on here. What would the pac-man jerseys look like with our current color scheme?Like if Blue was the dominant color, with Red being the secondary color? Can some of you design that and see what you come up with?

The fact that the article lists Iggy as a 6-6 PF, pretty much rids it of all credibility. He's skewing the numbers to fit his "vision" of the "shrinking NBA". Even had Ivan listed as a C, when his primary position is PF.Nice try JTB, but citing that article doesn't help your case. Just do your own research. And use NBA.com's player profiles, because they tend to be the most up to date.

It's really not how big a player is . . it's how big a player PLAYS.The fact is that we now have a backcourt that does NOT play bigger than what they are. Teague and Lou will attack the rim on offense, but neither guy has any shot guarding a guy like Derrick Rose at PG. Anthony Morrow has no shot at guarding a strong 2 guard like Dwyane Wade.That's the problem.People keep looking at one side of the ball, like offense is going to save us.No.If we can't stop people, we're not going to be a better team . . . even if we do score more points as a team.We'll simply be Golden State East, who ironically had to give up their pipe dream of a 6-3 . . 185 lb Stephen Curry at PG . . and a 6-3 . . 185 lb Monta Ellis at SG. Both are PG height and weight and both end up being a distinct liability on defense when having to guard a bigger and heavier 2 guard.Hawks backcourtJeff Teague: 6-2 . . 181 lbsDevin Harris: 6-3 . . 192 lbsLou Williams: 6-1 . . 175 lbsJohn Jenkins: 6-4 . . 220 lbsAnthony Morrow: 6-5 . . 210 lbsDeShawn Stevenson: 6-5 . . 218The problem with this roster, is that the best guards on the team are all PG size . . but will be asked to play some 2. If this team is committed to giving Lou Williams significant minutes, he's going to take minutes from either Teague, Harris, Morrow, or Jenkins.So what are the Hawks going to do at the end of games? Throw 6-2 . . 181 lb Jeff Teague at PG . . . and 6-1 . . 175 lb Lou Williams at the 2? That's the Golden State model . . and it has NEVER worked for them.The last time the Warriors made the playoffs, they had 6-3 . . 215 Baron Davis . . . and 6-6 . . 220 lb Jason Richardson at SG . . . with Monta Ellis being in the 6th man role.Make no mistake about it, our backcourt is undersized like hell. We're also undersized at the 3, which will be an even bigger issue. Josh Smith may be forced to play the 3 because of this midget lineup, and that may be a recipe for disaster for this team.

Yeah . . definitely find a way to incorporate the Rob and Big episode on the turtle they named Speedy Claxton. Watch this entire vid, especially the endhttp://www.mtv.com/videos/rob-and-big-season-3-ep-2-turtle-racing-rob-and-big-hope-to-raise-a-champion-turtle/1579397/playlist.jhtml

Speedy interview back in May And his fine azz wife again Plenty more Speedy stuff out there . . including old clips from his New Orleans and San Antonio days. Just gotta go find it . . and spin it however you like.These "scrubs" got some fine azz wives though. Shelden pulled Candace. Speedy pulled Meeka. Marvin was talking to Elle Duncan formerly of V103 for a while ( allegedly ) Must be nice to be a scrub . . but rich.

Speedy doing jump training ( probably sometime when he was with us, but injured ) His cute azz wife Rob and Big ( from MTV ) . . and their turtle named Speedy Claxtonhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1FMhvzkABkJust gotta be creative dude. Find it and weave it all together.

No Speedy footage? Come on now. You just have to be creative in your research.Speedy played in a total of 44 games for the Hawks, with most of those games occurring in the 2006 - 07 season. So your focus needs to be there. For example, when you type in a youtube search of "2006 atlanta hawks vs cleveland cavaliers". . this is what you get. It's only one "highlight" ( or lowlight ) of Speedy, but definitely something you could use. This is Speedy's game log from that year. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/claxtsp01/gamelog/2007/Go through it and do searches on those games, preferably against the more popular teams at that time, and see if you can find something to use. Or just type in "Atlanta Hawks 2006" or "Atlanta Hawks 2007: or even "NBA 2006" or "NBA 2007" and see what you can find.

Josh Smith jumpshooting from 16+ feet 2010: 233 shots . . only 7 of those shots were 3 pointers 2011: 460 shots . . 154 of those shots were 3 pointers 2012: 499 shots . . 109 of those shots were 3 pointers That's 959 shots of 16+ feet during the regular season with Drew as the coach.

Record vs over .500 teams the past 2 years in 2010 - 12 1) Chicago: 49 - 25 ( .662 ) 2) San Antonio: 57 - 30 ( .655 ) 3) Oklahoma City: 51 - 34 ( .600 ) 4) LA Lakers: 50 - 34 ( .595 ) 5) Miami: 46 - 34 ( .575 ) 6) Boston: 43 - 35 ( .551 ) 7) Dallas: 47 - 41 ( .547 ) 8) Denver: 42 - 41 ( .506 ) 9) Memphis: 43 - 43 ( .500 ) Atlanta: 42 - 43 ( .494 ) . . Woody's final 2 years ( 2008 - 10 ) 10) New York: 32 - 44 ( .421 ) 11) LA Clippers: 36 - 50 ( .419 ) 12) Orlando: 32 - 46 ( .410 ) 13) Portland: 33 - 53 ( .384 ) 14) Houston: 32 - 54 ( .381 ) 15) Atlanta: 28 - 47 ( .373 ) . . Drew's first 2 years ( 2010 - 12 ) 16) Utah: 33 - 54 ( .371 ) 17) Philadelphia: 28 - 48 ( .368 ) 18) Phoenix: 29 - 51 ( .362 ) 19) Indiana: 28 - 51 ( .354 ) 20) Golden St: 28 - 62 ( .311 )

Lue definitely deserves to be off this list. He was the original ISO guard, even before JJ.Scrubs can't do this at the end of games.

Just a suggestion.Once these guys get traded and contracts finalized, I'd be interested to see what some of your payrolls for this year looks like. It'll be interesting which one of you guys are truly set up for the future, and could retain your star players for the long term.

In that summer league clip, Smith said that he plans to have the best season ever. If that's true, he'll get a max contract from some desperate team.This also means that he'll get at least 80 million from the Hawks.With Dallas flat out failing in free agency, and with Dirk entering the final years of his NBA career, they'll be looking to get a player. Look for them to get rid of Shawn Marion sometime before the trade deadline, to a team looking for playoff depth, with Dallas taking back expiring contracts. When that happens, the Mavs will be 30+ million under the cap. This will give them enough money to go after one, possibly 2 Max players.ClevelandDallasHoustonNew OrleansOrlando ( when they lose Howard )PhillyPhoenixToronto . . could all be teams looking to acquire Smith next summer. Houston will probably be the biggest threat, seeing that they've coveted him for a while now.One thing is for certain, Smith will not give the Hawks a "hometown discount", especially after they made him chase after his own deal last contract. If the Hawks retain Smith, it'll have to be for around 5 yrs - 85 million.Now, the question will be the same question we asked about Joe Johnson . . . . is he worth that?

Typical ESPN right there.