TheNorthCydeRises

Sturt . . I contend that since the average NBA fan isn't a season ticket holder, that fan ( while maybe a fan of a particular team ), will choose to see his team play a particular opponent. Preferably one that is deemed to be very good, or has a must-see type superstar on it. I think what you say, only holds true to season ticket holders. Because if a fan skips seeing the Hawks play the Raptors, and instead opts to see the Hawks play the Lakers, he is in essence choosing to see his/her team play the Lakers, than to play the Raptors. And most notably, he's going to see the superstar, which is Kobe. The league and the networks market around superstars, not teams ( unless you're the Miami Heat with 2 superstars and a 3rd guy who is a legit all-star. ) National TV games Clippers: 20 Hawks: 8 Despite us being a more successful team from top to bottom, the Clippers will get shown more on TV this season ( if we have a season ). The league markets itself as a star driven league. The fans come out in droves whenever a star player rolls into their city. GMs and owners damn near fall all over themselves when a superstar becomes available. But the average fan cares more about the team than the star?

The fans themselves prove year after year that this is a superstar driven league. Question . . who will the average NBA fan most likely pay to see Atlanta Memphis LA Clippers Philadelphia If you said . . LA Clippers . . put a gold star on your forehead. Despite the above 3 teams making the playoffs, and 2 of those teams reaching the 2nd round, the average NBA fan is still more likely to pay to see the Clippers, than the Hawks, Griz, or Sixers. Why? BLAKE "the Bionic dunkerR GRIFFIN The Clippers, unless Eric Bledsoe, Chris Kaman, and especially Eric Gordon play like stars, aren't overtaking the top 8 seeds in the West. But they have the dunking machine that people want to see. So to follow up what I said in my previous post, if people want contracts based on performance, give Blake the option to opt out of his deal right now and make big money, instead of punishing him by staying a Clipper for 2 more years.

Well Trueblood . . we might as well have it the other way then. If a young player turns into a superstar within his 1st or 2nd year, give him the ability to become a restricted free agent at the end of his 2nd year, instead of the end of his 3rd year. Chicago gets to underpay the league MVP for one more year, before the crazy offers come his way. The Cavs had an instant superstar player that played well above his worth for 4 years in a Cavs uniform, before he got a major contract. The Thunder get to underpay Kevin Durant for one more year, before his extension kicks in. So if guys can see a contract be reduced because of underplaying his wort, guys should conversely be given the opportunity to opt out of his deal early, if he's playing way over his contract. And I disagree with you about where fan loyalties lie. The players in the NBA are who people go to see . . not necessarily the teams. Half of my "Hawk fan" rants have centered around this very issue. The fact that up until this past season, we had been a damn good home team to see and that going to Hawk games was a good value to the fans. But what do some give as the reason why fans don't come out? WE DON'T HAVE A SUPERSTAR. That's why Lebron said what he said. 50% of Cavs fans un 2009 weren't Cavs fans . . they were Lebron fans. And wherever Lebron goes, his fans will root for that team. Let Sund tell it . . we're an "elite" team because we've made the "final 8" for the past 3 years. So if we're that good, why is our fan support indicatve of a team who is an 8th seed or a team who isn't quite good enough to make the playoffs? It's because thw average NBA fan don't come to support their team. They come to root for their favorite player. And the team he plays on, becomes their team. Only the true die hard fans will unconditionally support their team, regardless of who is on the squad. The NBA isn't team driven. It's SUPERSTAR driven. And now these owners are mad that these players are not only commanding stratospheric contracts, they're starting to form alliances to team up with each other. Once again . . this is the monster that the owners created, and will continue to create. They'll negotiate a new deal, and some owner who really wants a player will find a loophole in the new CBA, and exploit the hell out of it ( such as how owners did with upfront balloon payments ).

( crying ) The poor owners don't know how to spend their money correctly, so they have to be saved from themselves. Look at what is going on in the NHL. Christian Ehrhoff of the Buffalo Sabres signed a 10 YEAR - 40 million dollar contract. Now why would a team sign a player to a contract like that, for that long? Well for one, the contract is frontloaded like hell. He'll get 10 million next season, and 8 million the season after that. Next, because it's a 10/40 deal, the cap hit will only be 4 million a year. Even though he's 29, you keep one of their best and most popular players on the team. But some of you guys want to let these owners off the hooks for making these types of deals with star players? Why let the Knicks off the hook for a contract like Eddy Curry, when they themselves REFUSED to play the kid and MAKE him earn his money? Or the Wizards off the hook for acquiring Rashard Lewis? If these teams are dumb enough to continue to do this, I say let them do it . .and LET THEM SUFFER. No one is forcing these owners to make these types of deals. So why penalize the player for not "living up to the deal"? It's funny, when players want to re-negotiate their contract or ask for more money, fans have a fit. But if it's the other way around, fans seem to be cool with it.

Question . . . is Deron Williams a superstar? I say no. Therefore, as inconsistent offensively as Horford was, you can't make that deal. You don't trade big for small, unless that big has a replacement or that small is a superstar. Our frontline is nothing if we lose Horford or Smith, and don't get a good big man in return. Of course, during the season, Horford was a top 3 center that gave you solid production every night. We were already somewhat guard heavy with JJ and Jamal + Bibby and Teague if necessary. Personally, I wouldn't do that deal either. Deron is a better player than Horford. That doesn't mean that the Hawks are better if you add Deron, but subtract Horford. We'd simply have one of the best backcourts in the league, but Smith would be our ONLY quality player on the frontline. Giving extended minutes to guys like Zaza, Collins and Powell, doesn't help us, even if we had a Deron.

I mean, a team like Memphis is supposed to be in so much financial trouble, yet, a few playoff wins see them give Zach Randolph a 4 year - 71 million dollar deal? And the owner also says that they'll bring back restricted free agent Marc Gasol too? How does a "broke" team do that? LOL . . that same "broke" team signed Rudy Gay to a 5/82 deal the previous summer. So let me get this straight. The NBA and owners claim that they lost 300 million last year. But Zach Randolph and Carlos Boozer can secure 16 - 18 million dollar a year deals? And economic wise, Memphis is still Memphis. What is the owner gonna do? Significantly raise ticket prices because they're a playoff team now, with the owners paying his guys like other playoff caliber team owners do? You're still talking about Memphis/Shelby Co. having a population of less than 700K people, and Metropolitan Memphis having a little over 1 million within 50 miles of the area. I think the real problem with the owners, is that they relied too much on the corporate dollar to pay top dollar for suites and ticket prices. Now that those corporations are practicing more discretion in their spending, the NBA owners are forced to do the same. I don't have a problem with the economic model of the NBA changing. It probably should change with the economy the way it is. I just don't want these owners crying like they are the victims here. This is the monster that THEY CREATED . . . not the players.

LOL @ feeling sorry for these owners. Why aren't the owners acknowledging that they're the reason why a problem with payroll exist? They're the ones signing Webber to 7yr - 84 million and KG to 7 yr - 120 million dollar contracts back in the 90s. They didn't like doing that, so to be saved from themselves, they locked the players out and instituted the rookie salary scale. Fast forward 12 years later, they have to be saved from themselves again, because the rookie salary scale has led to the top 20 or 25 or so players demanding TOP DOLLAR when they get their 2nd and 3rd contracts. And last summer, you saw the effect of that with guys like JJ and Boozer getting deals they probaly didn't deserve. But the "broke" owners paid the money anyway, in order to keep their teams competitive. Then you have an owner like Robert Sarver in Phoenix, who didn't pay his star, loses him to NY, and his team doesn't make the playoffs. The owners try to implement something, then an owner that wants to win does whatever to takes to win, and the other owners are FORCED to do the same, or risk getting left behind. The Bird rule was implemented to enable teams to keep their main player, and not have him go somewhere else. But that very rule led to JJ getting paid like a star, and payrolls rising, instead of a player changing teams every 3 - 5 years because his current team just couldn't afford him. These owners are full of ish, if you ask me.

Courtney Lee is a good pick. And my stupid self, who needed a PG, should've taken Jason Kidd as one of my final picks.So I'll make up for it and take this guy- Baron DavisHe's "only" 31, believe it or not, and he didn't have a horrible year last year ( 13 points - almost 7 assists - shot almost 42% FG - 33% 3FG - 1.3 stls ). Basically, it was a typical Baron Davis type year. He ranked #22 in efficiency amongst PGs ( according to hooppstats.com ). That puts him ahead of guys like Jameer Nelson and Devin Harris. It will give me 2 starter quality veteran PGs to man the team for the first few years, before I can draft the future replacement at the position. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T0KwsgaxwQPlus, Baron already has experience in playing with Blake Griffin. The duo was pretty good when they played together. Current Team:A. Miller - B. DavisTyreke - OJ Mayo - D. StevensonGallanari - V. CarterB. Griffin - T. GibsonBargnani - Jer. O'Neal - Jas. CollinsCoach: Phil JacksonOffensively, we won't have many problems. LOL . . we just won't stop anybody defensively. It would be interesting to see what these teams would do in some sort of simulation. I say that I have a 38 - 42 win team right here. Definitely not a title contender, but not a bottom of the barrel team either. Frontline is too weak though.

The closest vid to a Jeff Teague I've seen, is one that showed what he and Rose did in the playofs. The thing I liked about what Teague did during the playoffs, is that when he had a mismatch ( whether it be Bogans or Korver on him ), he immediately tried to score on them by taking the ball to the hole. He didn't rely on the jumper much, he simply played to his strength as a player. I loved what he did in that 3rd quarter of Game 5. When we were in the open court, he looked to push the ball down their throat and score, or set people up. I've long said that his game is more like Spud Webb's, than any other NBA player that you can compare him to. In the open floor, there are very few people who can stay with him. JJ and Teague are made to play with each other, because JJ will have no problem passing to Teague when the opponent tries to double him, and Teague will take the ball into the paint. If he can get the floater to fall, he and JJ will be a very good guard combination. And they show just that in this clip from Game 5, where Teague scored 11 points in the quarter.

LOL @ me . . . Phil Jackson is already my coach. I should fire Phil, and hire Woody.But Ima have to fire Woody and keep Phil. So I need to pick one more player.- Jermaine O'NealHad an injury plagued year in Boston, but still has some value ( unless these injuries continue ). Averaged a little under 14 points and 7 rebounds in the 09 - 10 season, but just 5 points - 4 boards last yearNicolas27/Northcyde lineupMiller - Tyreke - OJ Mayo - StevensonGallanari - Carter Griffin - GibsonBargnani - Jer. O'Neal - Jas. CollinsPhil JacksonLOL . . God, that's a soft team. Serviceable, but soft as hell.AHF . . . you are on the clock sir.

Damn . . . I had a write-up typed for each player I picked, but I forgot to log in. So I'll just list the players and maybe do a write-up later8th - Andre MIller ( PG leader )9th - Vince Carter ( scorer off the bench )10th - Deshawn Stevenson ( elite defender at the 2 and 3 )11th - Jason Collins ( to discourage Dwight Howard, even if he can't stop him )12th - Mike Woodson ( because he needs a job and would do well with Tyreke and Griffin as the focal points of the team )

And that's the thing High5. You know good and well that the playoff games that we DID WIN, had a lot to do with JJ. Yet, that gets completely overlooked because he ( individualy ) hasn't gotten us to the next level. JJ pisses people off when he tells the truth . . like during the Orlando series when he said that he doesn't get the credit for wins, so he shouldn't get blamed for losses. The statement on face value sounds bad, but he's telling the God's honest truth. People think the MVP of the 2011 playoffs for the Hawks is Jeff Teague, despite Teague ONLY playing in the Chicago series. There was only one guy who played even remotely consistent throughout the playoffs. The same guy who had monster games in Game 1 of both games. That's why I compare the cynicism that JJ receives, to what McNabb receives. Fans and the media blame both guys for coming up short, which is cool. But both guys are talked about like afterthoughts, like scrubs. Had it been any other Hawk going on Rome, you wouldn't have seen the little side comments that you see about JJ. But because it's JJ, the comments rain down by the boatloads. It just seems ungrateful to me to diss the guy that has been one of the main reasons why we're even discussing the Hawks being in the playoffs. Especially when you know the team as a whole isn't elite playoff caliber. Can't say that you like or love JJ in one breath, and constantly dog him out the next.

LOL @ dogged the fans. You mean the same fans that don't even bother to be on time to games? You mean the same fans that don't show up for games during the work week, unless some huge superstar is coming to town? You mean the same fans that routinely see opposing fans take over their own arena and cheer against the Hawks in their own building? You mean the same fans that started booing that team starting in the 1st quarter of the infamous Orlando beatdown in Game 3, when they were only down 7 points at the time? I was at Game 3 of that Orlando series. 75% of that crowd immediately bailed on that team as soon as the bench came in and the Hawks started struggling a little. Then as the beatdown got worse, the fans were in full hate mode by halftime. JJ's comments were made out of frustration in the heat of the moment, but crowd support has been a MAJOR issue in ATL forever. Don't act like the ATL crowd faithfully supported that team up until that time he made those comments. Even Josh Smith and Woody had made subtle comments about fan support before JJ's infamous comments that day. They were a 53 win team ( 4th best record in Atlanta Hawk history ) that won 34 home games ( 3rd best in the league ), and they STILL finished 18th in total attendance that year. So JJ and the Hawks get booed out of the arena . . and you wonder why he said he doesn't care less if the fans showed up or not? Keep it real. Maybe 1/2 of this board even bother to go to Hawk games ( whether they live in ATL, travel to ATL to see the Hawks, or if the team comes close to where they live at and play on the road ). In total, it's maybe a few thousand of us who can be considered "die hard fans". By the way . . . if you want to re-live that moment in time, and see JJ's ENTIRE post game interview that day . . . here it is. And note that he said WE . . . not I "could care less if the fans showed up or not". So apparently, some on that team shared the same sentiments as JJ. They just weren't careless ( or stupid ) enough to give their opinion. JJ's comment was dumb . . . but it's not like he wasn't telling the truth.

Since Nicholas27 hasn't made a pick since Round 7, I guess that means I have to pick 6 players when his turn is up. His team right now is ultra soft, so I guess I need to find a few goons to toughen up the roster. Or just add more soft players, and hope we can outplay people offensively.(( rummaging through the garbage can ))OK . . . still some value left on the board.

I've never seen a fan base be as cynical and flat out not support a star of a legit team, as much as I've seen with Hawk fans and JJ. I take that back. Donovan McNabb is probably the only guy I've seen "hated on" for no reason at all, more than JJ.

( raising hand )Can I take over for nicholas27?Despite him not making a pick since Round 7 ( and only choosing 6 players ), I think I can at least salvage his team to at least a .500 squad.Blake TyrekeOJ MayoGallanariBargnaniTaj GibsonPhil JacksonAnd if I can, do I just pick up with the next sequence of picks, or do I have to go back and come up with players he missed in Rounds 8 - 11?

Instant thread killer. I mean . . when you see Amare Stoudemire ranked #523 on that list, and the 20th most overpaid player in the league, you know this is complete B.S. And as critical as I am of Jamal Crawford at times, even him being ranked last on the Hawks, and the 14th most overpaid player in the league, is complete B.S. But people will swear by that win score statistic to the death. How about watching each individual game, and see if the play of that player helped his team win or lose . . whether it be via offense, defense, or him sparking a run at a critical juncture of a game? If his play was one of the top 3 reasons why that team won that particular game . . give him a +1. If his play was one of the top 3 reasons why that team lost that particular game . . give him a -1 If his play really didn't determine the outcome of a game . . . give him a zero. That's how a win score should be calculated. Let the win score per 48 stat tell it . . . Al Horford was more responsible for wins in the playoffs, than both JJ and Josh Smith. Anybody who watched that series knows that is complete B.S. Damn . . by that chart the OP posted, Marvin was underpaid by almost 700K. Wow.

LOL . . if it is, he didn't pick a bad looking one, that's for sure. That truck is sweet. I can imagine the women seeing that truck for the first time. Be like . . . "ooooooooooo . . . who is driving that !!!" He may have painted it gold, because that's an instant golddigger attraction.

- 5 all-star appearances - 4 straight playoff appearances for the Hawks ( after the Hawks had been dormant for 8 straight years ) - one 3rd team All-NBA selection Of course he didn't "earn" his latest contract . . but there's no denying that he deserves to be paid like a top 25 player for what he's done over the past 6 years. And all I know is of the playoff games that we DID WIN the past 4 seasons, JJ was the main, or one of the main reasons 75% of the time. But back to the truck. A BEAST!! LOL . . if I had 200K to blow like JJ, that's what I'd definitely get. And it wouldn't get driven everyday either.

The average sports fan is simply jealous of athletes who make a ton of money. It's been like that for years. It is funny though. No one has a problem with a mediocre actor making a ton of money. But let an athlete secure even a 10 million dollar per year salary, people have a fit. Here is an interesting article from Forbes.com, stating the top 10 paid actors between June 2009 - June 2010. 1) Johnny Depp - 75 million ( major film that year = Alice in Wonderland ) 2) Ben Stiller - 53 million ( Meet the Parents ) 3) Tom Hanks - 45 million ( Angels and Demons ) 4) Adam Sandler - 40 million ( Paul Blart: Mall Cop - producer ) 5) Leonardo DiCaprio - 28 million ( Shutter Island ) 6) Daniel Radcliffe - 25 million ( Harry Potter ) 7) Robert Downey Jr - 22 million ( Sherlock Holmes/Iron Man residuals ) 8 ) Tom Cruise - 22 million ( Knight and Day ) 9) Brad Pitt - ( Inglorious Bastards residuals ) 10) George Clooney - ( Up in the Air ) You look at a list like this, and people have no problem. But when a kid coming out of college secures a multi-million contract, people have a fit and talk as if they don't deserve the money. Then when he becomes one of the top players in that sport, and secures a mega-million dollar deal, the green eyes of jealousy REALLY come out. I wonder why that is? As for Joe . . to date he has made a little over 90 million as an athlete ( 85 million as a member of the Atlanta Hawks ). 5 All-Star appearances, one 3rd team All-NBA selection, 4 consecutive playoff appearance, no NBA Finals appearances or NBA Finals appearances. But people talk about him "wasting money" on a $200,000 truck? John Travolta owns 5 planes, including a Boeing 707, but Joe's "super truck" is a problem? GTFOH. As for Joe's truck. This is how it looked when he first bought it This is how it looks today . . . his 2011 version I'm sorry folks. JJ may have not picked the best color in the world for that truck, but that Ford F-650 XUV that JJ drives is BAD AZZ. Forget a Maybach . . give me THIS TRUCK. http://extremesupertruck.com/supertruck_m104.html A real good shot of JJ's 1st version of this truck is in that link.

Why does it matter? They're not using the draft picks anyway.

When Sund/ASG refused to extend Jamal before and during the season, combined with not trading him before the trade deadline, it illustrated that they wanted to let Jamal's contract expire so that it would fall off the books. If they want to bring him back, they now want to get Jamal as cheap as possible. If they can't get him cheap, they won't bring him back. And they probably wouldn't conduct a sign and trade, unless it was for an expiring contract. Expiring contracts are like gold nuggets to a team like the Hawks. Especially when you have 2 guys making over 10 million and another guy who will make 20+ million in the nar future.

Crawful . . . in that instance, I'm talking about the STAR OF THE TEAM. Not replacing scrubs with better and younger talent. I'm talking about keeping JJ + adding the younger prospects to develop around them. Not losing the dang star of the team, and having the younger prospects try to replace his production. Teams that do that are bound for the lottery. Teams that keep the star players intact, but surround them with developing young players, tend to prosper in the future. And my stance on Jamal is not puzzling at all. If we'd kept Acie and Speedy around for one more year, both fall off the books and we would've had more cap space to work with. Jamal had a 9 year track record of being one of the most inconsistent players in the league, before he came to the Hawks. That's why I didn't like the trade. I wanted Andre Miller here. Jamal had a career year in 09 - 10, playing alongside JJ and Bibby. This past season, he reverted back to being the normal Jamal Crawford. His possible replacement showed last year that he had the same style of game as Jamal, but with better passing ability. Most important, we'd keep JJ AND have that player to play alongside him at times. Of course, I value JJ more than most Hawk fans . . . who think that JJ is the 3rd best player on the team.

With the Marvin deal, I said back then that to secure him to a deal, they had to sign him to 5yrs - 40 mill. And they did a little less than that. I wasn't mad at the Marvin deal at the time. If Marvin was producing anywhere near what he was 3 years ago, we'd be OK. But he essentially let Flip and Jamal take shots and minutes away from him. The best possible outcome? Come on man. We did the bare minimum last year, outside of re-signing JJ. Signed a bare minimum coach. Did nothing to upgrade the frontline. But when the ish hits the fan, everyone wants to blame JJ for not being a superstar, or blame Smith or Horford for not playing big enough against all competition. God forbid this team surround those guys with people who can help them. I mean, we're so brainwashed around here, that we value a scrub like Jason Collins, who does NOTHING but play good position defense against one guy. He's praised for guarding Dwight, even though Dwight DOMINATED THE HAWKS, with the exception of one game in which his team stepped up, and he could basically take the night off. But his services were basically useless against Noah, because Noah doesn't demand the ball offensively. All Noah does is run to the rim and grab passes for lay-ups or rebounds on both ends of the floor. Something Collins can't do. Which is why the dude only played a little over 50 minutes in 6 games vs the Bulls. He scored 13 points and grabbed 6 rebounds during those minutes. But that's the guy people want back on the roster? And that's why the other thread that you have up illustrates exactly what I'm talking about. You have Benson and Lighty as guys that will HAVE to play decent minutes next year, if the Hawks don't make a trade or obtain a decent player in free agency. What 2nd round playoff team last year has 2 undrafted free agents getting decent time for them? The fact that you have Benson, Rolle, Twin, and Lighty penciled in as 11 of the 12 guys on our roster next year, is scary as hell . . and not in a good way. None of those guys would play on most of the other playoff level teams. Some of them wouldn't even be dressed out. Memphis is a great illustration on how those late 1st round picks can help a ballclub. - Darrell Arthur ( 27th pick ) - Grevius Vasquez ( 28th pick ) - Sam Young ( 36th pick ) Those are "glue guys" for Memphis, along with the defensive minded Tony Allen ( who was the 25th pick in 2004 ). But for us, guys like Benson and Lighty may become the 8th and 9th man in the rotation? The hope for our bench lies in how well Hinrich or Teague plays, and if Benson can immediately establish himself as a decent frontline player. It'll be interesting to see who the Hawks add to this team, with the new CBA looming over their heads, and them possibly having to pay luxury tax under a new agreement. No Diesel . . . what I talk about is nowhere near the "best possible outcome". It's simply not the "bottom of the barrel" crap that the ASG tries to sell us on as viable. - the undersized but good defending and rebounding PF was there last year in Varnado - the defensive and athletic SF was there this year in Singleton - if we didn't take Varnado, the defensive and athletic hybrid 3/4 was there in Faried - the possible offensive replacement to Jamal was already on the team in "that dude in Washington" Instead, we get the "great" Kirk Hinrich . . and NONE of those guys I just listed above are even in the mix. Yeah, it's hindsight. And we can't do anything about it. But don't act like this management group and the GM has us in the right direction, because they don't. My trust is in JJ, Smith, and Horford. They're the guys who are going to have to get it done BY THEMSELVES, because the management sure isn't going to help them.

And you call that a "win now" lineup Diesel? That's a lineup that forces JJ to play like a borderline superstar . . or get close to all-star level of play from Smith, Horford, and Teague every night. With that lineup, Benson would almost have to become a decent player right away.