TheNorthCydeRises

LOL . . had to borrow that opening line from Public Enemy's "Prophets of Rage". And while the Hawks are persecuted, it's mainly because of this dumb azz management group and GM that can't seem to get things right. Despite the playoff "success", this team is in dire straights, because we were basically an average to below average team for most of the season. Even our coach was worried about if we could just "flip the switch" when playoff time came around. Fortunately, guys like JJ, Jamal ( in the Orlando series ), Teague ( in the Bulls series ), and Josh, Zaza, and Hinrich in spot situations, DID flip the switch. Next season though, we can't rely on that switch being flipped. Otherwise, we may end up like the Lakers, who thought they could flip it, but didn't have the personnel ( especially off the bench ) to battle the elite level teams. My negativity these days really didn't start until the Hawks started doing the bare minimum to improve this team. The players, when they do their jobs, still get my support. I've been a critic of Jeff Teague and his passive play, but I'll definitely get behind him if he plays with the same aggressiveness he showed in the Chicago series. I remember you and I ( referring to Hotlanta ) damn near begging this team to add frontcourt help before the 2009 season, only for them to add Jason Collins and Joe Smith. We both knew that rebounding was a major issue with this team. 2 years later, that's still the case, because our reserve big men are horrible. But last summer did it for me concerning Sund and the ASG. As some call it . . it brought me to the "dark side". The only thing they did to stabilize us for the future, was re-sign JJ . . . and even that may be a de-stabilizer because of his contract. - didn't upgrade in coach - didn't use the #31 last year - didn't use the TPE they got from the Childress trade - didn't add a decent frontline player - added Collins, Powell, and Etan, and tried to pass them off like all 3 would help us - traded for an aging and average PG that has never done anything, and gave up young assets to bring him in Instead of the Hawks having three 1st round draft picks and a very high 2nd round pick to help build for the future . . . we have one of those guys here ( Teague ) . . and it took an act of God just to see if he could be trusted with the starters. Some of you can look over the errors of the ASG/Sund this past year and not make a big deal out of it, simply because we won two 2nd round games. But this was the time to show if we were SERIOUS about getting to that next level, or if we were just playing around. The initial acquisition of those two 1st round picks gave an indication that the ASG/Sund were serious about improving this team from top to bottom. But they sell the pick for money almost as fast as we acquired it. They proved right there what their mindset was. After the JJ signing, I thought things may have been different . . then they go shopping at the Dollar General store, and try to pass those players off as guys who can help us. So to me, either these guys need to get SERIOUS about this ish, or get out the F'in game. It's that simple to me. And it's funny how LD/Sund want to add "Blue Collar Players" all of a sudden, seeing how the Bulls roughed us up. Had they'd kept that damn draft pick, we could've added Singleton or Faried ( two guys who are definitely "blue collar" ) to the mix. But as usual the past few years, we're looking for the lesser players to blossom into the best possible scenario. It's incredible that we need a Keith Benson to blossom into a legit rotation player almost overnight. Meanwhile, the 2010 SEC Defensive Player of the Year ( Varnado ) and the 2011 ACC Defensive Player of the Year ( Singleton ) should be on this roster giving us a young defensive presence. Add those two with Teague, and we probably COULD create some sort of defensive identity with this squad. Instead, we're searching through the garbage can to find the "blue collar guys" that we need. As always, I'm an UNCONDITIONAL fan of the Atlanta Hawks. Nothing this dumb azz management group or GM will turn me away from them or from going to games. That's not going to stop me from criticizing moves that I think won't help us though. I'll say it again. If they're not serious about trying to improve this team to get to the next level, GET OUT THE F'IN GAME!!

Dol . . this is the situation we're ALWAYS in though. It just gets old. This team does this stupid ish to themselves. The dude in Washington was traded for ( not drafted ), but traded for the specific reason to add to our guard rotation in case JJ left us. When we retained JJ, his role became to possibly replace Jamal. Now we possibly don't have Jamal, nor his possible replacement, and will possibly lose Hinrich next season for the exact same reason. You ask why I'm so negative these days. I may have to start an entire new thread on that.

SMH @ this thread. And people wonder why some of us still talk about "what's his name" in Washington.

Lighty = Mario West nbadraft.net compared him to Travis Hansen . . . talk about a name from the past. Hopefully, he can play great defense for 2 minutes like Mario used to do. At best, maybe he becomes Landry Fields.

Jamal exceeded my expectations. Like Flip Murray, he filled that need as the instant offense scorer. When Jamal was on, it was a beautiful thing to see. Having said that, it was pretty obvious that he and Teague in the backcourt together didn't mix. As long as Jamal dominates the ball, Teague will not reach his potential. Jamal gave us a good 2 years. But it's time to move on. Thanks Jamal. And the best Jamal moment was probably the 3 he hit in the Phoenix game last year to win it. I was at Game 3 this year vs Orlando, and the 3 he made to seal that game is arguably one of the biggest shots in Atlanta playoff history. My vote still goes to the Phoenix 3 to win though.

ATL . . they know what you mean. And don't believe for one minute that everything Jordan did last year didn't matter. What's sad, is that if you do a youtube serarch on "he who's name shall not be mentioned", all kinds of vids come up. Why? Because he's a scrub? Scrubs have videos of themselves all over the place like he does? ATL . . read the opening post again, and read what Al Horford and Joe Johnson said. Look how they talked about JC2s OVERALL game. Nevermind, I'll post the two quotes again. “When you’re talented and can score the way that he can, you know obviously you can live with some of the mistakes that he might make, but I think he’ll learn that as he keeps playing every game. I know he can pass the ball. When we practice and play together you could tell that not only can he score, but he can pass it as well.” -Al Horford “He’s not only a scorer, but he’s a play-maker as well. He’s one of those players who you can really put him anywhere out there — either at the one or the two. You put him at the one, want him to run the team, he can do that and make plays.” -Joe Johnson But not Drew. I peeeped from the jump how Larry would try to talk down the positive attributes of JC2's game. He may praise him for one thing, but criticize 3 other things. He even went as far as to say that he couldn't play the 1 and was strictly a 2, despite his ball handling and passing skills. You want to see an interesting stat? This is from 82games.com . . Player 48-Minute Production by Position Jordan C as a 2 guard 39.7% eFG ( which is horrible ) 21.2 pts ( on 22.5 FGA ) 4.1 rebs 4.7 asst 3.1 turnovers PER - 10 As a 2, JC2 didn't play well at all. I would guess that he would settle for way too many long jumpers, which led to his horrible shooting. But look at his numbers when he played the PG in D.C. 49% eFG 32.6 pts ( on 27.3 FGA ) 4.8 rebs 9.6 asst 6.5 turnovers PER - 20.6 ( even with all of those turnovers ) If anything, those numbers at PG show that he tried to do it all. Score - Distribute - even Rebound a little. Most important though, it shows that Jordan's game is so versatile, that he may actually be closer to a POINT GUARD than a SHOOTING GUARD. Remember, coming out of high school and while at Indiana, Jordan was a POINT GUARD. And if he is . . you have to seriously . . SERIOUSLY . . question Larry Drew's ability to evaluate talent. And it's already being questioned, with the way Teague was buried on the bench, even after he showed that he could be an asset playing alongside JJ and some of the other starters . . instead of playing alongside Jamal and the rest of the bench. Perfect pick and roll Pinpoint pass ATL . . people know this dude can ball. The only question is going to be his shot selection. And the real issue is his 3 point shooting. Either he has to improve dramatically, or eliminate the shot from his arsenal altogether. I thought this was interesting . . especially the parts when he mentions Atlanta, and especially when he talks about what Van Exel told him. Folks deep down know we messed up by trading this kid. Let's just hope JC2 is an average player, and not a borderline star in 3 years.

Diesel, that's hogwash. Because as Jordan C showed in a few games in Washington, HE could've been the backup PG in a spot minute situation. We'd just have to roll with Teague as the starter. Heck . . the issue with Bibby was his DEFENSE. So all we needed here was a guy who could defend the PG position, seeing that we've survived without a quality PG for years. Ish . . go out and get Earl Watson, if that's the case. Teague - Watson at the point. I'm kind of surprised at you Diesel. You believe in Kirk Hinrich that much? You think that guy is REALLY the missing piece with us getting to the ECF? The Hawks get outworked on the frontline, especially when Horford or Smith are having difficulty offensively. That's where we need help at. And at the SF position. Hinrich has NEVER been an answer anywhere he played.

No sir. Stuff does not just happen. Especially not on a continuous basis. And I'm not talking about choosing players that just didn't work out. I'm talking about giving up the chance to choose those players altogether, or not even seeing if those players will work out or not. We've literally given away two 1st round draft picks and the 1st pick in the 2nd round in the last 2 years. That's 3 players that at the very least could've became good role players off the bench. Yet, none of those guys are in the mix here and we'll have to go to the Dollar Tree just to fill out the rest of the roster. This is NOT an issue of Marvin being chosen over Paul. This would be like trading that 2nd pick and not having Paul OR Marvin at all. Where would we be had we kept Bibby? We would've been forced to either go out and bring in a decent PG to run the team, or give TEAGUE a chance to run the team. It's up to the team and the coaches to make that decision. And if the coach opts to play an ineffective player in the lineup, and the team loses, then you fire the coach. LOL @ asking what is 18 going to get us . . . but Teague was picked 19th and people think he has a chance to be the next Rondo. 18th would've gotten us an upgrade over Damien Wilkins or Josh Powell. 18th would've enabled the Hawks to play a young player under 2 million for the next 3 seasons. And if 18th played above his head, you'll get maximum value out of that player at a very cheap price. 18th could've gotten us the next Dennis Rodman ( Kenneth Faried ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrZJlPdukAA A rebounder this team DESPERATELY needs, since our big people don't like to mix it up against bigger people, and Marvin and JJ are allergic to rebounding on most nights. If Faried doesn't become the 21st century Dennis Rodman, he'll at least be the 6-8 version of Joakim Noah. LOL @ what is at 18. Man please. The Hawks front office keeps F'in up . . then expect JJ to bail everybody out. Dol . . what about next year . .when we're in the exact same situation with Hinrich expiring? We'll have to replace him too. At that point, people will be wishing we'd had 2 first round picks and that top pick in the 2nd round, to possibly fill the void. If this team doesn't make a lot of noise in the playoffs soon, that trade will be talked about around here for a long time. Because Jordan C will be one of the better young players in the league next year, and Singleton may make an All-Defensive team within 2 years.

It's not negativity. It's being real. Why even place such a high expectation on Benson, by even referring to him as a Camby type? You talk like he is a 1st round talent or something that got overlooked. Just keep it real. Stop with the unrealistic expectations for a late 2nd round pick, when most big men taken that late don't pan out at all. People did this same thing with Randolph Morris and Garrett Siler. If you want to continue to believe that this guy will be a solid rotation player, then go right ahead. Just don't get mad when people keep it real about what we truly have.

So half of the 1st round doesn't look impressive, but the Hawks 2nd round pick at #48 kinda does? All the talk about Benson, and the guys he supposedly looks like. Meanwhile, the next Dennis Rodman ( Kenneth Faried ) or Stacey Augmon ( Chris Singleton ) would've been available at #18. While this draft doesn't have a lot of superstar and star talent, it does have quite a few niche type players who can do one thing well enough to survive in the league. Jimmer could survive as an Eddie House like shooter. Kemba is a Ben Gordon clone. Tobias Harris is versatile like Cliff Levingston. There's niche talent all over this draft. Why not just admit that the Hawks messed up as usual? The minute the maxed out JJ and extended Horford, they should've been trying to acquire as many talented but cheap assets as they possibly could. And not 2nd round or horribe vet minimum cheap either.

It is wishful thinking. This is a low 2nd round pick. Comparing him to guys drafted in the lottery is unfair to Benson. He's a big man with a nice jumper and some shot blocking ability. A guy that used to kill people in college ( Shelden Williams ) turned out to be a bust. Not saying that he'll be Shelden. But history shows he has a greater chance of being a bust like most 2nd round big men, than anything even close to resembling Aldridge in the pros

The only assumption I'm making, is that Teague probably would've been handed the starting PG job next season, if Bibby sucked. As for the draft picks, of course they may not have been the picks . . but those guys would've been available for us to take. It still doesn't discount the fact that we would've had three 1st round picks on the roster, and a 4th guy who would've been taken #31 ( essentially a late 1st round pick at 1/2 the cost ). The reality is that the Hawks now have to re-populate the rest of the bench with vet minimum guys ( if they're trying to stay under the Tax at all costs ). - Joe Smith - Jason Collins - Etan Thomas - Josh Powell - Damien Wilkins Those are the 5 guys that we've gotten for the minimum. Of that group, Collins only is useful vs Dwight Howard and Damien is a inconsistent offensive and defensive wing off the bench ( better defensive than offensive ). With only 7 guys signed, we'll have to re-populate the bench again with veteran throwaway type talents or get lucky and find some young kid that went undrafted, especially if the ASG refuses to pay above the minimum for one or two players. I wasn't fond of the trade when it went down, and I'm definitely not fond of it now.

Hell never make the All-Star team. All-Star PFs can score at the rim and rebound with the best of them. Maybe if he played center like Al, he'd be an All-Star. Just give it up Josh. No post game = no All-Star appearance

Hawks payroll in 2011 - 12 . . had we not made that trade Johnson - 18.04 million Smith - 12.4 million Horford - 12 million Marvin - 7.5 million Bibby - 6.2 million Zaza - 4.75 million Teague - 1.58 million Collins - 1.3 million ( assuming the vet minimum rules stay the same and is re-signed ) Singleton - 1.28 million ( slotted salary for #18 pick in 2011 - 12 ) Jordan - 1.12 million Varnado - 0.8 million ( assuming he was taken #31 last year and using Dexter Pittman's salary next season ) Total salary: 66.97 million Still need to add 2 players . . either keep the 2nd round picks of Sy and Benson . . or get 2 vet minimum guys. Sy and Benson wouldn't cost the Hawks much more than 1 million extra. The vet minimum guys would cost the Hawks an extra 2.5 million at least. after 2012 season, Bibby falls off the books after 2013 season, Zaza falls off the books and a decision would have to be made on Smith and Teague. By then, we could've seen if the young guys taken in 2010 and 2011 are viable players. You guys act like we were in some impossible situation, had we not made that trade. - Jordan replaces Jamal as the bench gunner. - Teague takes over as the starting PG - Bibby becomes the useless, overpriced spot shooter off the bench and plays spot minutes at the point. - we'd have Singleton to replace Wilkins - we'd have Varnado to replace Powell - Sy and Benson would be the fillers in suits on the bench - Collins, if we wanted, would be re-signed again. Unless Hinrich gets us to the Eastern Conference Finals, that trade didn't help out the Hawks for the future one bit.

Coach . . who gives a flip about Bibby's contract. You're paying him a little less than you'd be paying Hinrich this year. And who cares about being beaten by the Magic this year, if we STILL lost in Round 2 this year. Hinrich wasn't traded to simply win a 1st round series was he? We did that in the 2 years prior to him coming here. And if he stayed healthy, we still wouldn't have seen Teague perform in the Bulls series, because Drew would've opted to go with the guard rotation he had in the Orlando series. And we still would've lost to the Bulls, because of that. Without the trade, Teague would've for sure gotten his chance next year if Bibby sucked. He may have gotten his chance earlier, who knows? What I'm talking about is making sure we have enough talent overall in the mix so that we can compete in the future. Like I said . . that's 3 or 4 first round talents that could've been coming off the bench for us in 2011 - 12. Instead, we're going to be scavenging the dumpsters again for big men and wings that nobody wants. Here's a question. Do you think Kirk Hinrich will be on this team after 2012 . . especially if Teague supplants him as the starter? The ASG is counting on his expiring contract coming off the books, just like they apparently have done with Jamal this year. With the amount of money that our "core" is making, it is essential that the Hawks obtain and keep talented but cheap players on the roster. Mid to late 1st round picks enable you to do that. The Spurs have made a living in doing just that. Look what they did last night. They trade a talented young guard in George Hill, for 2 first round picks. With Hill going into the last year of his contract before he becomes a restricted free agent, the Spurs went ahead and traded him for a draft pick that they can pay a little more cheaper for a few years, instead of re-signing Hill at 5+ mill a year for the next 3 - 5 years. Instead of trading Tony Parker, they kept him in the mix and added 2 young forwards that they can pay dirt cheap for 2 - 3 years. That's why the Spurs NEVER stay out of the mix. Don't be surprised that they pull off their biggest move this year, with an aging Tim Duncan, and his whopping 21 million a year salary this season. Watch that team trade Duncan to somebody wanting cap relief, and watch the Spurs get back 2 or 3 quality players in return. Think Monta and Biedrins for Duncan. But as for us, had we not made the trade and kept our draft picks . . - Teague will only make 4 million in the next 2 years - Jordan will only make 2.3 million in the next 2 years - Singleton, under a new CBA, may be making less than 4 million the next 2 years - Varnado as a 2nd round pick, wouldn't have made 2 million in the next 2 years. That's 4 players that would've collectively made less than 7 million next year. If just 2 of those guys gave you any value, that's a plus for this team. And I think Bibby was due to make 6 million and would expire at the end of this season anyway.

It's sickening man. And I know the Jordan C topic was beat to death on here. But this could end up being MUCH WORSE, if Singleton turns out to be an elite defender. God knows we could use on of those on this team. The money that Jordan, Singleton, and Varnado would've made this year combined, wouldn't equal what Kirk makes in 2012. I hate rooting against people, but I'm almost hoping that Jordan and Singleton don't turn out to be good players. Because if they do, you'll NEVER hear the end of it . . NEVER.

Remember that folks. That's essentially what we gave up to bring Kirk here. Either Kirk needs to perform at a high level next season, or Sund needs to trade him for a player or players who will help us in the long run. All I know is that those are 2 players I would've LOVED to have coming off of our bench for the next few years. One is a gunner . . the other is a perimeter defensive hybrid of Josh Smith and Deshawn Stevenson. Plus we could've had one of those project centers that people wanted last year with the #31 pick ( Whiteside, Pittman, Alabi, etc . . ). I personally wanted Varnado. Sund and the ASG are so against paying even a little luxury tax, that they've bypassed 1st round talent that could've helped this team in the near future. When you talk about developing an identity for a team, you need to have in mind exactly what you want your team should look like. Some people were wondering who would fall in the draft. It looks like that guy was Singleton. You just have to wonder if we didn't just give Washington an offensive AND defensive stud with that trade. How nice would it have been to bring this guy into a game to lock up people on defense? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMC71wpjZzQ LOL .. that dude is talking about guarding positions 1 through 4? If he's that good of a defender that he can literally guard 4 spots, it's just another black mark for that idiot GM of ours. Teague Jordan Varnado Singleton Four 1st round talents that could've been on this team the past 2 years, but only one is on the team? Horrible.

I just hope people understand exactly what this guy is. Please don't overrate him and expect him to be some sort of great find by Sund. Just keep everything in perspective and see how the kid turns out.

Seen this guy play twice last year. Once against Austin Peay ( my hometown college team ) during a holiday tournament around Thanksgiving. AP's frontline was smallish, and Benson completely dominated them. One of the better college games I saw last year too. That game went to OT and Oakland pulled it out. I think Benson got something like 20 points and 20 rebounds that game, with about 4 or 5 blocks. Then I saw him again a few weeks later vs Tennessee when they went to Knoxville on a Vol replay of that game. UT had just come off of the biggest win of the year when they went up to Pittsburgh and beat them. Pitt was the #3 team in the country at that time. Vols were ranked #7 when Oakland came to Knoxville. Benson pretty much had his way vs Brian Williams and Tobias Harris ( who went in the 1st round ) in the 1st half of that game. As far as how he'll be in the NBA, you're probably looking at guy who may be a slight upgrade over Josh Powell. Like Powell, he has range on his jumper out to around 20 feet and isn't going to bang in the post much. Hopefully, he rebounds and defends better than Powell did. This is the Tennessee game I'm talking about

Wow @ the move at 0:36 . . . Horford nor Smith can do that. Kentucky wins the NCAA title had that dude played at UK. Minnesota would be crazy not to team up him with Love. But they may want that wow factor, if they want Smith. I think Minnesota may ask for more than Smith, for us to get the #2. We may have to give them our 1st round in 2012 + Smith. Ballzy move by Sund if he can pull it off. ******************* And if it's Kanter and Beasley . . that's a no brainer. If the Wolves accept that, you do that in a heartbeat. Bring Beasley off the bench or start him at the 3. Slide Horford to the 4. Start Kanter at the 5.

Why did the old broke down old man outplay Smith this year? Heck . . and whose to say how many years Garnett has as a quality player . . 2, maybe 3 more years? He's still one of the better defensive PFs in the game with one of the best midrange games in the league. If we can get Horford to become a better post scorer and become a legit #2 scoring option, how valuable would it be in the next 2 - 3 years to have a vet like Garnett playing alongside him? I think people are still thinking that Josh Smith can become a better player. I'm starting to think that this may be as good as he'll ever be. If the guy continues to refuse to play on the inside 70% of the time as an offensive player, he's not going to improve. We've already seen a decline in his shot blocking, due to nagging injuries. People act like the Hawks have some 5 year window of opportunity to do something significant. If JJ is here for the long term, we need to surround the best possible mix of talent around him RIGHT NOW . . not in 3 years. As good as Smith is at times, he averaged 3.7 ppg - 3 rebs - and shot 14% FG vs Boston last season . . . with KG matched up on him most of those games. Dude was 3 - 21 FG in 3 games vs Boston.

I agree. If the Hawks wanted to get out from under JJ's contract, a Garnett for JJ swap would be a legit one. But here comes the great dilemma. The entire reason why a guy like Smith is more expendable than JJ, is because we already have a guy in Horford that can slide to the PF spot and play his position. Add the fact that Josh is a free agent in 2 years, and you see why all of the talk is about Smith now, instead of the fully extended JJ or Horford. But let's play with both scenarios. Neither of these teams will factor in our 2nd round pick, which I think is pretty irrelevant this year. He'll warm the bench with Sy. Lineup if the JJ - Garnett swap is made Teague - ???? Hinrich - Wilkins - Sy Smith - Marvin Garnett - ???? Horford - Pachulia - Collins Both Wilkins and Collins are re-signed to 1 year vet minimum deals. Pape Sy sticks around as a cheap project. With that lineup, Hinrich would have to start at the 2. He'd also have to double as the backup PG, which would lead to extended minutes for Damien at the 2. Teague and Hinrich would definitely have to play at a fairly high level for that lineup to work. Smith - KG - Horford is a very good frontline. Smith's shooting is still a major concern, especially with this lineup, because KG and Horford are both midrange shooting guys. Marvin would have to be the 6th man and play at a high level both at the 3 and the 4. So depending on what you'd want with that squad, the need would be either another PF ( preferably a banger ), or another SF ( preferably a shooter ) and a backup PG or shooter/defender at SG . . both would have to be vet minimum guys. I think with Smith's ability to play the 4, I'd try to add another combo guard and a wing to the team. - Delonte West ( combo guard ) - James Jones ( wing shooter ) New lineup Teague ( 36 ) - Hinrich ( 12 ) Hinrich ( 22 ) - West ( 16 ) - Wilkins ( 10 ) - Sy Smith ( 24 ) - Marvin ( 16 ) - Jones ( 8 ) Garnett ( 30 ) - Smith ( 12 ) - Horford ( 8 ) Horford ( 28 ) - Zaza ( 14 ) - Collins ( 6 ) 11-man rotation with Sy as the benchwarmer That's not a bad team at all. It's just that a guy like Teague would have to play at a Chicago like level, for them to reach their potential, and Hinrich would have to be solid defensively at the 2. I think that team could win 45 games if healthy . . 50 max. But they don't have that potential explosive scorer or that take over the game guy. And I don't like Smith logging all of those minutes at the 3. But to satisfy Horford, and with KG on the team, he'd have to play that much at the 3. That would have to truly be a true team effort, for that team to succeed. It's defintely a playoff squad as long as Smith plays within himself. Lineup if Smith and Marvin were traded for KG + 1st round pick Teague - Hinrich Johnson - ???? - Sy ???? - Wilkins Garnett - ??? Horford - Zaza - Collins To make it fair . . same parameters. Wilkins and Collins re-signed. Sy stays too for one more year. You instantly see where the holes are. The starting lineup is nice and balanced, but we need bench upgrades, seeing that I'm not fond of Sy and Wilkins getting extended minutes with the 2nd team. With this team, you're talking about adding either a legit 2 guard that can shoot/defend . . or a combo guard. I'd opt for a legit 2 guard . . probably a defensive 2, seeing that I still have the perimeter scoring JJ on the team who can play both the 2 and the 3. AS for the other spot, I might opt to go for a "stretch/rebounding" 4 to backup Garnett, or a big man upgrade better than Zaza or Collins to play center, so that Garnett and Horford can play most of the minutes at PF. If I can get that #25 pick from Boston, I'll go with the guy that nbadraft.net has Boston taking right now . . . Georgia's - Trey Thompkins. He's the versatile 4 that can shoot the ball and play around the rim. At worse, he's a better rebounding version of Josh Powell, who wasn't bad offensively for us this year . . he just couldn't rebound or defend worth crap. Thompkins has been criticized for being lazy. KG wouldn't allow him to be lazy. He'd motivate him just like he did Big Baby. As for the wing player, I'm probably making a play for Tracy McGrady. While not a big time scorer anymore, T-Mac did show some pretty good playmaking skills last year. It'll be a situation in which you couldn't expect him to log 30 minutes a night. He'd be one of those 18 - 25 minute per game type guys. But even as a starter, he could be an extra facilitator from the SF spot that could get people decent looks. And he can still handle the ball and get his own shot, which would be a plus. The defensive filler would probably be a guy like Quinton Ross, who made his claim to fame as a defensive player while with the Clippers. In Jersey though, he was an afterthought on a bad team. Teague ( 36 ) - Hinrich ( 12 ) Hinrich ( 16 ) - Johnson ( 20 ) - Wilkins ( 12 ) Johnson ( 18 ) - McGrady ( 24 ) - Wilkins ( 8 ) - Ross Garnett ( 30 ) - Horford ( 10 ) - Thompkins ( 8 ) Horford ( 26 ) - Zaza ( 16 ) - Collins ( 6 ) Other than the very balanced starting lineup, the one thing I see with this lineup is that a guy like Damien Wilkins would have to become an important rotational player on the perimeter. Which means he'd have to be our version of Keith Bogans as a defensive asset. McGrady would be called upon to be an important bench player as well, seeing that he'd be the guy that would be playing alongside JJ most of the time when JJ plays the 2. And Horford may have to become close to that 20 ppg - 10+ rebound guy that some think he can become. I don't think he can do it, but he may have to with this lineup. As with the other team, I think this squad is a legit 45 win team. The difference would be in the experience that comes with the additions of Garnett and McGrady. Could the old pros make enough plays, especially toward the end of games, that would take the Hawks to the next level? I do think if both squads played up to their potential Two interesting teams, in my opinion . . . regardless of what direction the ASG goes. Exactly.

I keep asking . . does anybody watch the league? Per 36 Minute numbers JOSH SMITH 17.3 ppg 8.9 rebs 3.5 asst 1.6 blks 1.3 stls 47.7% FG ( 14.2 att ) 33.1% 3FG ( 2.1 att ) 72.5% FT ( 4.3 att ) KEVIN GARNETT 17.1 ppg 10.2 rebs 2.8 asst 0.9 blks 1.5 stls 52.8% FG ( 13.3 att ) 20% 3FG ( 0.1 att ) 86.2% FT ( 3.5 FT ) As a player, KG and Smith are neck and neck. You get stability and leadership with KG, while Smith gives you that energy and wow factor. The ONLY issue here is age. Add Garnett to the Hawks, and you'll get . . . - an instant leader for the team, on a team void of leadership, that could use his championship experience to help the team as far as work ethic - an emotional leader that will motivate teammates to play at a higher level - a box office attraction that people will come to see ( even if he isn't in his prime ) . . the groupies will definitely be out to see KG, because they love dude - a 47% shooter from 16 - 23 feet, which added with Horford, would give us two of the best jumpshooting big men in the game - a better rebounder, especially on the defensive boards - the ability to re-sign him for maybe a year or two extra at a very reduced rate, especially if the Hawks have success in the playoffs with KG on the team. - instant national exposure and credibility, which will lead to more national TV games ( seeing that our TV presence might be reduced next year due our lack of buzz as a team ) If there's ever a time to trade Josh Smith, and get a player that can help the Hawks for a season or two, it is now. If the deal is Josh + Marvin for KG . . . I'd have to seriously think about it from all the angles I just listed above, especially from a leadership and box office attraction standpoint. If the deal is Josh + Marvin for KG and a 1st round pick . . . . YES

PG - Miller G - Johnson F - Marvin PF - Horford C - Camby Johnson, Horford and possibly Marvin would be the main scorers in that starting lineup, with Miller being the facilitator and Camby being the rebounder/defender PG - Teague G - Duhon G - Wilkins ( if re-signed ) F - Anderson F - ( vet mininum ) C - Zaza C - Orton Horrible bench, but maybe Drew would let Teague be the main offensive threat on the 2nd unit. Either way, that vet minimum guy might need to be somewhat of a scorer ( McGrady maybe ). At least you have been consistent in that mindset. But I'm pointing out the hyprocrisy that people come with, when they talk about just dumping JJ. But now that it's Smith, people are all up in arms.

So let me get this straight . . If we're trading JJ for garbage, people are OK with it because we're getting out from under his contract. But if were JJ being traded for something like this, those same people would be cool with a deal like this, not because it makes the team better or worse, but because we'd get out from under JJ's contract? What's the difference? [edit] . . lol @ that redundant statement. What I meant to say was . . But if we trade Smith for "garbage", people would be up in arms because we're not getting what we think we should get for him. ********** Let's play devil's advocate though. I know people are so against "old guys" around here, but Marcus Camby would instantly become the best rebounder on the team. His 14.2 rebounds per 36 minutes is top 5 in the league. The major drawback to Camby, is that he's almost guaranteed to miss 25 - 30 games a year. Andre Miller would instantly become the best PG on the team. And as crazy as it sounds, he may become the best post player on the Hawks. His 3 point game is non-existant, but he still gets to the rim and can convert the play. He'd also represent the best playmaking PG JJ and Horford has ever played with. As a PG, he may be slightly better than Hinrich overall. Anderson represents a guy you can bring off the bench as a spot up shooter. Duhon would function as the 3rd PG behind Miller and Teague. Orton would be the big man project. Recap Camby is a rebounding upgrade over Smith, but significantly worse offensively and a major health risk. Miller is at least Hinrich's equal and may be better Anderson is a 3 point specialist who can rebound every blue moon Duhon and Orton are throw-ins . . equal to the vet minimum contracts we'd sign anyway. Trade grade: C The trade is nowhere near the catastrophe that people are making it out to be. Smith's departure would be Horford's gain, seeing that it should lead to him being used more. We'd finally get a chance to see if Horford could be an 18 - 20 pt . . 10+ rebound guy. As the first true PG the Hawks would have since Mookie, Miller may be given the reigns to the offense. He's still one of the better defensive PGs in the league. Most of all, a guy like Teague would learn how to play the PG position more by watching Miller, than he would Hinrich. In the end . . no . . I probably wouldn't do the trade, because Camby is such a health risk. But we'd be getting enough pieces back in key areas, that the team wouldn't take a step backwards if we did this. We just wouldn't progress much either, unless someone like Teague and Marvin stepped up to be more consistent. And if Horford blossoms with a passing PG getting him the ball in the right spots, it will definitely help the team inch closer to that next level.