TheNorthCydeRises

Yeah coach . . . I called that number, and she told me to call ticketmaster. I knew it was a longshot. @ Jack . . and I've tried that before too, for a friend I had in ATL in which I couldn't make it to the game. They said that they couldn't do that, even with the ticket confirmation number. Oh well . . that"s a $38.95 donation to the ASG. Tickets were real cheap for the Clipper game.

And even when the Hawks had their best chance to get the #1 pick, look who went in the top 10: 2001 - Kwame Brown - Tyson Chandler - Pau Gasol ( whom we selected but traded for an all-star in Shareef ) - Eddy Curry - Jason Richardson - Shane Battier - Eddie Griffin - Desagna Diop - Rodney White - Joe Johnson LOL . . I mean dang. You mean if we'd had the #1 pick, we'd probably taken Tyson Chandler or Kwame Brown? In that 2001 draft, this is arguably the actual top 10 ( the actual order can be disputed ) - Pau Gasol - Joe Johnson - Gilbert Arenas - Tony Parker - Jason Richardson - Zach Randolph - Gerald Wallace - Richard Jefferson - Shane Battier - Troy Murphy So the Hawks eventually got arguably the 2nd best player in that draft. Of course, we messed it up in 2005. No need to revisit that. But what about 2007? Who do we pick if we had the #1 pick? GREG ODEN No way we'd take Durant, with all of our big man problems and the plethora of wings we had back then. How disasterous would that have been? So once again, we arguably got the 2nd best player in that draft, in Al Horford. It definitely takes luck to get that franchise player AND have him pan out to live up to expectations. Chicago hasn't won a dang thing yet. And they are a mediocre road team as of right now. They have to be taken serious, but like with us, you can't anoint them with anything yet. Everyone thought they did it right a few years ago, with the Gordon - Hinrich - Chandler - Curry core players. But that only lasted 2 seasons before they imploded. No way would I want to go back to "sucking". I would much rather watch and hope a good ATL team turns the corner, instead of wishing upon a "star" to fall in ATL's lap. In other words . . . I'd much rather have Phoenix's history of good but not great teams ( minus the Barkley led Suns ), than to have the Clipper's history of futility and hoping a megastar falls in their lap. And we'll see if Blake Griffin can be that dude, and actually be that savior for them. But he gets no credit until he actually leads them somewhere.

I have purchased tickets for tonight's game vs the Clippers. As most of the old posters know, I travel 4 hrs to games from Tennessee. I purchased my tix on Jan 31st through ticketmaster. But I won't be able to get to the game tonight. NOTE . . . I DO NOT WANT A REFUND What I would like to do, is use the tix I have for tonight's game, and have it credited for another game later in the year. I have not received the tix in the mail or printed them out. They are in will call. Can I even do this? Ticketmaster reps aren't even answering calls, due to "severe weather and numerous cancellations". Can any one of you point me to a person who can possibly do this for me?

Even before tonight's win, give Coach Drew his respect. All he's done, is have is 1 game behind the pace we were at last year, and right in the hunt for a top 4 spot AND a division title. Yet, some of you act like he's the worst coach in the conference. And this is NOT college. If you're an NBA player, and you've shown that you can contribute consistently on a nightly basis, you WILL play in this league. No coach in his right mind would keep a player that can contribute buried on the bench . . unless there was some "politics" behind it, like Marbury or Nate with the Knicks. It kills people to say that Drew is coaching more like Woody. Cause all that has happened since Drew shortened this rotation, and stopped trying to get Teague and Powell their minutes every game, is that this team has really played well. That"s 11 wins out of 14 . . and a 20 - 8 record since we had an 8 - 7 record back in late November. So go ahead Larry . . keep the W.W.W.D. ( What Would Woody Do? ) philosophy. Get those wins, and a top 4 seed. Once we get to that point, it is then up to you to make the playoff in-game adjustments that your predecessor couldn't seem to master. In the end, that is what will separate you as a better coach. But in the meantime . . . don't change a thing if what you're doing is actually working.

A mid-2000s Detroit Pistons-like win for us tonight. When you play horribly on offense, you can at least keep yourself within striking distance by playing great defense. I personally like these kinds of games, rather than the 110 to 110 type games, because to win a game like tonight, you have to show an extreme amount of mental toughness. And the Hawks did just that tonight. I'm sure that LebronCenter on ESPN has the excuses flowing already about the Heat's loss. They'd been reminding everyone all day that Bosh was "doubtful" and that Lebron would be a "game time decision" . . . like he was questionable to play. Horford going down equalized the playing field. And the Heat were up 6 late in that 4th quarter. So they really don't have any excuses for not beating us. And I disagree with Ex. If we DEFEND like we did tonight, in the playoffs, we're going to be in every game we play in. That in itself will give us a chance to pull a game out, regardless of what we're doing offensively. I'd much rather see this team play stellar defense in the playoffs, than stellar offense.

Ex . . all of this info is on 82games.com. The big lineup is holding opponents to 40% eFG. That's far and away the best defensive lineup of the Hawks, amongst the top 15 lineups we throw at people. The difference is not necessarily Collins himself rebounding the basketball. It's the fact that Horford and Smith are still rebounding the basketball, while significantly outdoing their opponent. It's all right there man.

I hope Drew recognizes when to play big and when to go small. The grouping of Horford - Smith - Marvin is still the better overall rebounding group. But it has been well documented that when Horford plays a physycal center, and Smith plays a physical PF, both of their rebounding numbers tend to plummet. So while Horford - Smith - Marvin If we play a team in which the opposing center isn't a scoring threat at all, it's best that Horford goes up against him. That was my beef in the last Boston game, in which Shaq was hurt, and Doc started "that Semen kid" ( as Barkley called him ). Dude was not a scoring threat, and Horford would've abused him at center on the offensive end. But because Horford was matched up on KG, and Smith on Pierce, it was a recipe for disaster. But if Shaq is in the lineup, Boston will run some offense through him, which will reduce a few of the touches of KG and Pierce. That's where Collins needs to make his money, by defending Shaq, and putting a body on him so he can't grab offensive rebounds. At that point, it's up to Horford and Smith to secure that defensive rebound.

Actually . . . DJ is right. It is because of the big lineup. What the big lineup has done, is give the Hawks a legit guy to defend low post scoring bigs. And with Horford moving to PF for more minutes, he has turned into an ELITE defensive PF. And most important of all, Josh Smith has held his own vs SFs, posting slightly better defensive numbers than when Marvin guards SFs, while significantly outrebounding the opposing SF. Collins +/- rating is ridiculous for the amount of minutes he's played ( +97 despite playing only playing 341 minutes. ) His presence has not only allowed the Hawks to get stop at the beginning of halves, our opponents are pretty much limited to "one and done" on the offensive end. The wild card in all of this is that we've only played 3 or 4 good teams during this 8- 3 record over the last 11 games. The real test is when we start playing the more talented teams again . . especially the ones with talented frontcourts. How will the big lineup fare against Boston ( when we play them again ), and maybe more importantly Miami and especially Chicago? When we go out West again, can the team hold its own vs the better teams? I still say that Drew shouldn't start Collins against smaller, quicker centers. Horford is still very effective defensively vs those guys. But against the traditional low post threats, Collins is the way to go, which protects Horford from early foul trouble. I was about to start a thread on this, but I think I'll post it here. Actually, I may copy and paste what I'll write here, and start the thread anyway. While Collins is a well below average rebounder for a center ( 8.9 rebs/gm per 48 minutes ), the opposing center is grabbing 10.9 rebs per 48 minutes. Why is this significant? Because although Horford is still a very good rebounding center ( 13.8 rebs/gm per 48 minutes ), he gives up 13.4 rebs per 48 minutes. But even more significant, is the defensive difference of Horford playing PF, than Josh Smith. Horford is limiting the opposing PF to 41% FG. Smith is having trouble stopping PFs ( 53% FG ) and they grab 11.1 boards per 48 minutes. Horford's opposing PFs grabs 10.8 rebs per 48 minutes. At PF, Horford is still grabbing 12.9 rebs per 48 minutes, outrebounding his opponent by 2.1 rebs ( which is the difference Collins gets rebounded by ). But remember, Collins significantly limits the amount of rebounds that centers get, compared to Horford. Which leads us to Smith. Smith holds his own defensively at SF ( 47% eFG ), comparable to Marvin's 48%. But his rebounding at SF is the difference. Smith averages 10.1 rebs per 48 minutes at SF. His opponent averages only 7.1 rebs per 48 minutes. That's a 3 rebound difference. With Marvin, he grabs 7.7 rebs per 48 minutes, while his opposing SF grabs 8 rebs per 48 minutes. So let's review: These are the rebounding numbers per 48 minutes for the opposing C - PF - SF when Horford plays C - Smith plays PF - Marvin plays SF: C - 13.4 PF - 11.1 SF - 8.0 Total: 32.5 rebs per 48 minutes These are the rebounding numbers per 48 minutes for the opposing C - PF - SF when Collins plays C - Horford plays PF - Smith plays SF: C - 10.9 PF - 10.8 SF - 7.1 Total: 28.8 rebs per 48 minutes Ex is probably right in the fact that there is less switching going on. But there is less switching going on, because the big lineup is holding its own at the beginning of halves. The big lineup is by far the best defensive lineup we can throw at teams.

LOL . . what a great opening post. But I have to ask Wretch this question, because I don't remember . . . were you for or aganst Shaq coming to ATL? If you were for it, then this thread is right on point. If you were against it, the thread is moot. Shaq was the most realistic acquistion the Hawks could've gotten over the summer. And with the way Smith is shooting the ball from the outside, and showing the ability to play the 3, a guy like Shaq would've even been more valuable. The Hawks needed to bring in guys who could completly take playing time away from the reserves of last year. Zaza has been bad, Teague hasn't elevated his game to the next level, and Mo Evans has been downright pathetic. So if Wretch was all for Shaq coming to ATL, this is a "thread of the year" nominee.

The following is from the fantasy basketball stat site . . hoopsstats.com: PG – Bibby ( 30th ) . . Teague ( 49th ) G – Johnson ( 10th ) . . Jamal ( 21st ) . . Damien ( 53rd ) . . Jordan ( 62nd ) F – Marvin ( 23rd ) . . Evans ( 69th ) PF – Smith ( 8th ) . . Powell ( 54th ) C – Horford ( 3rd ) . . Zaza ( 48th ) . . Collins ( 70th ) . . Etan ( 80th ) ******* Overall Player Rankings league wide: Horford ( 7th ) Smith ( 23rd ) Johnson ( 73rd ) Jamal ( 116th ) Marvin ( 141st ) Bibby ( 143rd ) Zaza ( 241st ) Powell ( 242nd ) Teague ( 264th ) Damien ( 272nd ) Jordan ( 318th ) Collins ( 342nd ) Evans ( 346th ) Etan ( 366th )

Worse than Arroyo & Chalmers?

There is no such thing as an untouchable player on the Hawks. If we have a chance to package Horford in a deal for a box office draw like a Carmelo Anthony, then you do that in a heartbeat. If a team isn't in position to win a championship, the ownership will opt to make money. Even JJ for Melo is a move you'd make. There's no one "untouchable" on the Hawks. Sund is an idiot. He proved that over the summer. But if I were the GM, the player I'm trying to deal is Jamal Crawford, because he has the talent + the desirable expiring contract teams may covet. And there are a few guys who I would target: If I want a big, I'm targeting Samuel Dalembert, because he's an expiring contract as well. If I want a rebounder, I'm targeting Troy Murphy, even though he's sorry defensively If I want a SG/SF, I'm targeting Andre Iguodala . . which defensively and as a slasher, would be ideal for this team If I want a PG, I don't know who to target, seeing that we need a defensive PG here that can also run a team and provide timely offense. So if I had to rank them in order, it would be Jamal Crawford for .. 1) Iguodala 2) Dalembert 3) Murphy 4) defensive or playmaking PG To me, adding Iggy's defensive and athletic abilities to this team, would get us back on track . . . plus it moves Marvin to the bench. But Drew is an offensive coach and Sund is an offense loving GM, so a move like that would never happen.

So at the end of the day, the only thing we can hope for is for our starters ( mainly JJ ) to play at the level expected of them . . or one of the kids ( Teague or Jordan, or both ) to have the "light" come on, and them to start making major contributions to this team. Depending on guys like Marvin, Zaza, and Mo to do it, simply isn't much of an option right now. In the end though, the front office will have to bring in quality players to add to the depth of this team. And hopefully they can/will play defense. *Offense wins TICKETS *Defense wins GAMES *Rebounding wins CHAMPIONSHIPS The Hawks are currently ranked in the 20s in both offensive and defensive rebounding. ( shrugging shoulders ) Oh . . . and Zaza isn't Rocky Balboa

Dang . . . Wretch was all over the place with that post. Wretch, the problem is overall talent. Lakers win the title, yet they go out and add vets Steve Blake and Matt Barnes to make them stronger Boston was the runner-up, and from the time in late January in which we swept them, to the start of the season, Boston added - Nate Robinson - Shaq - Jermaine O'Neal - Delonte West - Marquis Daniels ( whom they already had, but is coming back from injury ) San Antonio drafts a guy in the 2nd round that actually had lottery pick talent, but teams were afraid of because of possible physical issues with his knee, and because he was "undersized". We passed over him to draft Teague. That player is Dejuan Blair. Wretch, what people will NEVER admit around here, is maybe . . just maybe . . the former coach had this group AS A TEAM, playing about as well as they could play, considering the obvious roster issues. Our front office had a chance to add over the summer: - Avery Johnson - Josh Childress - an extra 1st round pick - Shaquille O'Neal ( even if we had to trade Marvin to Cleveland AND overpay Shaq to get him ) Instead, this is what we did: - hired Larry Drew, Woody's assistant, and the guy the players wanted - traded Childress and got nothing but a trade exception - sold the extra 1st round pick for cash - signed Jason Collins, whose only skill is position defense - signed Josh Powell, whose only skill is erratic midrange shooting - signed Etan Thomas, whose only skill is looking like a bodybuilder - bought out a contract of a French player who didn't even start on a French team 80% of this fan base, and the GM, and the owners were ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that the former coach was the ONLY issue, and the person holding the team back from its full potential, despite the fact that that the team had improved by +7 ( 30 to 37 wins ), +8 ( 37 to 45 wins ), and +8 wins ( 45 - 53 wins ) in 3 consecutive seasons. All of that without a bonafide superstar . . or a PG . . or a true C . . or a bench that was worth a damn, minus 1 player ( Chill one year, Flip one year, and Jamal one year ) But talent wise, we simply don't have championship talent . . and we never have. Trading Josh Smith or Al Horford for some mediocre center does NOT solve the problem here. It'll only make us worse, because we'd still have no quality depth behind that center or Horford. When we have a chance to add a huge center to the team who can still rebound at a high rate and score around the basket, we have to add that to the mix. But they were afraid with how he would fit in with these guys ( a direct quote from Drew, by the way, listed in the AJC article a few days ago. ) An old Shaq, as I and others illustrated all throughout the summer, is still better than 75% of the centers in the league. If Shaq was able to give us 24 minutes a night, and Horford and Smith could play minutes at PF alongside a big dude like that, we're not talking about the issues we're talking about right now. People like to throw around the words "quit", like these players simply don't care. They care. But as a whole, the team is nowhere near as good as fans think they are. - JJ isn't Kobe - Smith isn't the "closest thing to Lebron in the league" - Horford isn't the next Karl Malone - Marvin isn't "James Worthy with a jumpshot" - Teague isn't the next Rondo - and Larry Drew isn't the next Phil Jackson And outside of Jamal Crawford, there isn't a single player on our bench that could crack the rotation of the top 10 teams in the league. It is what it is folks.

Why not blame Horford? Had JJ, Marvin, Smith, Bibby missed those 2 FTs ( with 4 misses in the 4th quarter ), they would be ripped to hell. Plus the Hawks gave up 5 offensive rebounds in the final 7 minutes of that game. And Horford didn't board well at all that game. Oh yeah . . he's definitely going to get the blame. Fans are quick to blame everybody else for bad plays or lackluster performances. So "Boss" isn't exempt from that.

A lot of people on this board begged this front office to upgrade the bench, and they flat out failed to do so. Acquiring Shaq, no matter how over the hill and injury prone people think he is, would've been a far better pickup for the Hawks, than Powell, Collins, and Etan combined. And he still rebounds the ball too, which is probably his best attribute as a player these days. The good news is that there is plenty of time to get things right. And with both the Magic and the Heat playing less than stellar ball these days, we haven't lost any ground. But this team has issues, major issues, that they need to get right. I see people are starting to hedge on Teague. Remember folks, Dejuan Blair was available when we drafted Teague. Had he'd been the backup PF on this team, we're not having a discussion about the lack of rebounding from the Hawks. Sund has simply failed to get the right type of personnel here to compliment our starters.

Dragitoff . . if that trade works, I wouldn't be upset with that at all. But of course, if Jamal scores 19 pts tonight on 7 - 12 shooting, people will be right back in his corner. But if we can get a vet PG and a perimeter defender like Dahntay ( who can defend the 3 and the 2 on occasion ), I'll take that all day.

That's why ownership needed to do everything possible to bring Shaq to Atlanta. You overpay that dude, make him an integral part of your marketing plan, and play him 15 - 25 minutes a night. If you had to trade Marvin Williams to get him, then that's what you do. At least during this time, attendance would've been high, just off of the curiousity people would've with seeing Shaq playing in a Hawks uniform. But I forgot . . Sund "likes our CORE" and believes that we are "elite", simply by making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Truth be told, we could've brought in both Shaq AND Iverson. Even an old and injured Shaq is better than any reserve big man on our roster. And it's not like Teague is doing jack, so let Iverson run the backup PG for 15 - 20 minutes. At least then . . you'll have marketable faces to sell to Metro Atlanta.

It's like I've always said about Jamal. If he's making shots, then play him. If he's not, get him off the floor, because he will flat out KILL YOU in other areas. But when I talk about Jamal's one-dimensonal quality as a player, I've always been viewed as a hater . . . so don't beieve what I say about the dude.

Dol . . the most baffling thing about the Pape Sy thing, is that we actually had to buy out that dude's contract to even bring him here. And if he's not "suited to play the 3", why in the world would we bring him over this year? We have a team full of 2-guards, so is Sy another 2-guard? I think Drew sees him more as a PG, which is even more baffling as to why we brought Sy over this year. So our true position chart looks like this? PG: Bibby, Teague, Sy G: JJ, Jamal, Jordan, Mo SF: Marvin ????

Wretch, we've started the past 2 years with a 6 - 0 and an 11 - 2 record, playing a far tougher schedule than we have so far, and by playing the dreeded ISO offense. 5 - 0 is great, but we're beating bottom 10 caliber teams ( other than Memphis, but with Gasol and Randolph out, they were a bottom 10 team that night ). We're supposed to win these games. In year's past, our beginning of the season schedule has been brutal, so I'm not mad one bit that we're taking advantage of our Boise St. type schedule.

If Wall did that in Atlanta, and he was a Hawk, people would absolutely love it. That dude is the new face of that franchise. If he wanted to dance for 2 minutes for his home crowd, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Part of the appeal of the NBA, is the entertainment and personalities of the players. Instead of worrying about Wall, maybe the ATL talk show personalities need to be worrying about how to get more fans to weeknight home games. Maybe if Horford was dancing, we could get more than 8,000 live bodies to the Pistons game.

I have to agree with Dejay. When I looked at the schedule back in September, the only game I'd thought we'd lose up to this point was the Memphis game. And even that game was very winnable. So us being no less than 4 - 1 would've been disappointing. In fact, I said the Hawks had a good shot to be 14 - 4 going into December, and that they BETTER be at least 12 - 6. Because that December road schedule is no joke. Thing about it is . . if we happen to drop a game tonight, and we're without Marvin and Jamal ( and Mo, seeing that he would start at SG or SF with both of them out ), it would be somewhat understandable. Smith will probably have to play a lot at SF tonight . . vs Beasley . . which was a nightmare matchup for Smith last year when Beasley played the 4 in Miami. So a loss tonight would be understandable. A win tonight may be the most impressive win of the year, even against Minnesota. But that brings us back to whom the Hawks have played so far: - Memphis . . without Gasol, and then without Randolph - Philly . . at full strength - Washington . . without Arenas ( and no, they shouldn't have beaten us ) - Cleveland . . at full strength, but learning to play without LBJ - Detroit . . without Rip, or Bynum, or Maxiell A win tonight against a still bad, but improved Minnesota team, wit us being shorthanded, would be the most impressive win of the year. Everyone keeps talking offense, offense, offense . . but it's the defense that will determine if we're a better playoff team or not. We'll get a much better feel of what this team is really made of 2 weeks from now. Our roughest part of the November schedule is coming up. So far though, you have to give Drew and the Hawks an A- for what they've done so far.

Dang . . . Ex just popped the water balloon. Yeah, we've played a Boise St. type schedule so far( opponents combined record of 5 - 17 ). If this was the BCS, we'd be ranked 7th, because our strength of schedule is so low.

The obvious answer is that he has played 40+ minutes in each of the last 3 games. People talk about Woody running JJ into the ground, but JJ is playing major minutes under Drew as well. And with Marvin potentially out tonight, JJ is officially our ONLY healthy SF. I guess that means that Smith will be the backup SF, seeing that Drew doesn't trust Jordan Crawford eough to go with a 3 guard lineup off the bench.