TheNorthCydeRises

And on the flip side, no one on the team took more of their shots within the last 10 seconds of the shot clock, than JJ. And that is a characteristic of almost all go-to scorers in this league. And the shot they usually end up with, is a tough jumper from 10 - 20 feet.

The thing about JJ's shot selection is that there were very few times in which I said to myself . . "now that's just a bad shot". The problem with JJ is that he's a relatively inconsistent shooter in the first place. But he compensates for that by trying to get in the lane and shoot the floater, in which he makes a little over 50% of the time. Last year, when the outside jumper wasn't falling, he looked to score in the paint. As long as he continues to do that, and not just keep chucking away from the outside when he's cold, then I won't have too many problems with his shot selection. I just wished he made more of the wide open jumpers that he misses on occasion.

Ex . . did you see the end of Game 5 of the Lakers vs Suns? The irony of that game is that Artest actualy WON the game for them, after he caught Kobe's airball jumper and scored at the buzzer. But had he not made that play, Artest would've gotten killed by everyone in LA for the absolutely mind boggling play he made just a minute earlier. The whole reason why he'd only taken 6 shots in that game, was because he had been shooting terribly in that series. If I were on my laptop right now, I'd post the entire end game sequence of events of Game 5. If the Lakers would've lost that game, they may lose the series, because that would've been a devastating loss. Somebody go to Youtube, and type in the search box . . "LA Lakers vs Phoenix Suns Game 5 2010 NBA Playoffs Part 12". That should list the end of tha game. And to see the reaction of Artest's shots as they happened, view Part 11 at the end. Post it in this thread please.

So Jamal is worth more than Smith now? Come on man. Jamal is the one who didn't get the extension. He's the expendible one out of the two. Between Jamal and Mo Evans, we have 12.5 or 12.6 million coming off the books. Depending on how Horford's contract is structured, he could make as little as 10 mill next year, or as much as over 14 mill ( if the Hawks frontload his contract ) ( capologists . . please verify this please ) What we need to do, is find a legit center who can play up to 25 minutes a night, that could allow us to keep Smith and play Horford more at PF. Just don't believe the national media, especialy Chad Ford, when they say something about the Hawks. The average username on Hawksquawk knows more about this team, than the average or above average national media guy. Josh Smith isn't going anywhere, unless it's a trade for a superstar ( Carmelo Anthony ), or if Horford starts whining about want to play PF on a full time basis. Until either of these two things happen, Josh Smith will be a Hawk.

Winner: AHF Ex doesn't lose many arguments, but he lost this one. It's pretty much common knowledge that Artest has bad shot selection at times, despite his 47% eFG on jumpers last year. When you jack up as many threes compared to 2 pt jumpers last year, I definitely see how he shot 47% eFG on his jumper, but still has very questionable shot selection. That .5 "extra credit" that is given to made 3 point shots, has people believing that a 33% shooter from 3 is acceptable, because it's equal to 50% when you factor in the eFG%. One of these stat sites need to do a breakdown of shooting percentages of guys when they're wide open, as opposed to their shooting when covered. The true non-shooters would be exposed then, if their shooting percentages were still low when wide open. And that's my concern about Marvin as a shooter. He must make the wide open looks, to be a viable cog in this offense.

AHF . . Ex is talking about his eFG% on jumpers only, not his overall eFG%. The guys who shoot a ton of 3s, and can make a good percentage, are more than likely going to have a relatively high eFG% number.

I'm shocked that the ASG actually got the deal done. 5/60 should be very workable for this ownership group.

Ex . . what do you consider to be a good eFG%?

Marvin was horribe last year Ex. We all know that. But this is why the eFG% is deceiving as hell, especially for a player like Marvin. When Marvin shot 45% FG on shots from 16 - 23 feet, but took only 10 or so threes, he was a much more dependable shooter than he is now. If he can't consistently make the three, I'd much rather have the Marvin that was a pretty high shooting guy from 16 - 23 feet, than the schizophrenic shooter from both the 3 and the long 2 that we have now. Why are you even arguing this? You know Artest takes bad shots and always have taken bad shots. I agree that his shot selection is nowhere near Smith's ( because Smith can't consistently make any jumpshots ). But Artest doesn't have good shot selection at all. He plays like Stephen Jackson, who is notorious for taking early, ill-advised threes.

And Ex, truth be told, Artest should've posted a much higher eFG% than 47%, seeing that he didn't have to create his shot nearly as much in LA, than he had to do in Sactown and Houston. A 47% eFG for a guy who took a ton of 3s, and was basically a standstill jumpshooter in LA, isn't very good at all.

AHF . . your argument citing Artest takes bad shots, is the exact reason why I hate that eFG%. It's almost if Exodus is framing that 47% number as one that is acceptable for him . . which it isn't. On 3 point shots, all a player has to do is shoot 33% from 3 point range, to post a 50% eFG percentage. In Artest's case last year, he took twice as many 3 point shots as he did shots from 16 - 23 feet. Even if you combine his shots from 10 - 23 feet, compared with 3 point shots, he still took almost 1/2 of his jumpers from 3. Artest shot 36% from 16 - 23 feet and 35.5% from 3 point range. The difference is the 35.5% from 3, translates to a 53% eFG. And with Artest taking 1/2 of his jumpers from 3, that's how he can post a 47% eFG, despite shooting 36% from both the long 2 point and 3 point areas. In the past, Artest would take a lot of bad long 2s off the dribble. That's why those writers used to rip right into Artest. Ron's shot selection is actually more closer to Stephen Jackson, than anybody else. And people can't deny that he has horrendous shot selection, even though he possesses the ability to get how and have a big game from time to time. But it goes to show just how bad of a shooter Smith is, because Josh couldn't shoot 36% from both the long 2 and 3 point range to save his life. That's why he may be the absolute worst jumpshooter in the league, for the amount of jumpers he takes. To me, if you're not shooting at least 40% from that 16 - 23 feet area, you need to reduce the number of shots you're taking from that area. The same thing goes for 3 point shooters that shoot less than 37%.

Goood point Deeman. We definitely had respect going into last postseason. After the Game 4 loss @ Milwaukee, people were uneasy, but still viewed us as legit. But when we lost Game 5, they all wrote us off for dead, because of our poor playoff road record. Once the Game 1 beatdown vs Orlando occured, the respect was gone out the window. The "respect" isn't going to come, unless we beat a few championship contender teams ON THE ROAD. Everyone knows that the Hawks can ball at home, but we usually struggle out on the road. We may have to beat Orlando, Boston, LA Lakers, and Miami at least once on the road, for that respect to come. ( edit ) . . and do it with them at full strength, so the "well so and so was out/hurt/hobbling" excuse can't be used.

I agree . . shouldn't have let it get that close. The captain damn near lost that game for us. Oh well, we get an untimely 3 from Josh to give us the cushion to pull this one out. Not the first time he's hit a 3 late in the game like that. It was a shot he had to shoot though, with the clock running down.

Only 13 pts in the quarter with 3:30 to go . . . but the difference is that they're still playing defense and have only given up 15 pts. That's how you win games when you're struggling offensively. Close the game out fellas . . and stop with the turnovers JJ. Just shoot the damn ball.

Smoove . . man . . just stop with the jumpers.

Offensively, we look great again. Horford, Jamal, and JJ each took over the game offensively in spurts. Have to love the fact that both JJ and Jamal have gotten to the line so much already in this game. LOL . . could JJ have back to back double digit FT games? 5 minutes of great defense in the 3rd quarter may blow this game wide open. JJ and Marvin need to lock in on Iggy early, to see if we can stretch this lead to 15 or 16 right away.

High5 . . if you remember the Indiana game last year, the bench played like crap. Woody did the same thing Drew did, and played the 2nd unit together, and they played like crap. So he did what most coaches would've done . . . play the people who win games. I think Drew's offense definitely helps guys like JJ, Marvin, Bibby and Horford. It'll hurt Josh initially, because he can't shoot. Jamal is the new ISO guy, because he wants to dribble more than pass or even shoot. As for the rest of the bench, we'll see how the season goes. But they looked great on Wednesday night, no doubt about that. Just don't blame Drew, if the bench doesn't come close to playing like that ever again.

Zaza actually shot 51% from 16 - 23 FT last season, which would be the best on the team. But he only took 0.6 shots per game from that range. Why? Because he's traditionally a low 30% FG shooter from that range. The 29% FG that Smith shot from that range, was the lowest since 2007 ( the data only goes back to 2007 for Smith ). That means that his shot is getting worse. That also means that no regular rotation player shot lower than him from that range last year. As others have pointed out, Smith virtually eliminated the 3 point shot from his offensive game last year. And it's not a coincidence that as soon as he did that, he shoots a career high 50% FG. If he reduced the long 2 point shot that he takes to say 1.5 shots per game, Smith probably shoots closer to 55% FG. The coaches or some sportswriter should do an article on just how bad of a shooter he really is. Use every source of statistical data you can find, from hoopdata, 82games, even use the nba hotspots shot chart data ( which really shows just how bad of an outside shooter he is ). See if that will finally bring "Smash" out of him, and see him attack the rim exclusively.

From Hoopdata.com: Al Horford took 2.2 shots per game from 16 - 23 FT . . and shot 48% . . ( this was the highest shooting percentage amongst all the Hawks in the regular rotation ) Josh Smith averaged 3 shots a game from 16 - 23 FT . . and shot 29% FG ( I think only Zaza shot a lower percentage from this range ) League average is 40% shooting from 16 - 23 FT But people will still defend his "right" to take long jumpers..

The quote was to reflect what Woody was thinking about the game. For any of you who think Woody would be questioning what he did with the Hawks, haven't watched him over the past 6 years. Woody was borderline arrogant in the belief of what he was doing, worked. So why would people think anything other than Woody trying to take some credit for the continued success of the Hawks? In his mind, he helped them become winners . . . regardless of what the fan base says. The fact is that if people are going to jump for joy over one regular season win, then Woody would come back at his naysayers and say that he went 6 - 0 and 11 - 2 to start the past 2 seasons. If the playoffs are what we're going to judge the Hawks on, then we'll have to wait until the playoffs come around, to really see if Drew is the far superior coach. Once again, I liked what I saw from the Hawks on opening night. And you won't catch me taking shots at Drew, regardless of how the Hawks play. I've just never been a believer that Woody was/is the main problem in Atlanta. The Hawks won a game that they were supposed to win. If they would've lost, I would've blamed the players more that I'd blame Drew. No way you let the Griz without Gasol and Zebo beat you. I just hope the fan base doesn't turn on Drew if he loses a few games. God knows that opinions on the Hawks change like the wind around here. And the issue with this team is still, and always has been DEFENSE AND REBOUNDING. If that improves as well, then Drew will definitely deserve props. But I guess people forget that we scored 120 points in the season opener vs Indiana last year, then turned around and throttled Arenas and Washington. I just keep it real around here.

My bad. I got a bad memory. We actually started 11 - 2 last season, beating Portland twice, Denver and a big road win @ Boston. The Hawks have very winnable road games in November, coupled with a few home games. I said when the schedule came out that the Hawks have a decent shot to be 14 - 4 going into December. 12 - 6 is maybe more realistic.

LOL @ all of this. While I definitely liked how the Hawks looked last night, don't act like the previous 2 seasons in November were full of nightmares. 2008 we started 6 - 0, and was a Paul Pierce buzzer beater over Horford from being 7 - 0 2009 we started 7 - 2, with an impressive road win @ Portland. And the teams in the past have NEVER had trouble with Memphis. Woody is probably thinking . . . "I taught Larry and the boys well."

I've pointed out many times on this site that Josh was not only a bad shooter, he's one of the worst shooters in the league PERIOD, outside of strictly low post playing centers. I repeat . . . HE'S ONE OF THE WORST SHOOTERS IN THE LEAGUE And it's really not even a debate. Yet, people almost defend his "right" to take long jumpers, just because he does other things well. Question . . what is wrong with Josh just catching the ball and go hard to the hole, instead of settling for a 21 footer? The issue is that Drew's offense is made for guys who can shoot, and guys who cut hard toward the basket. We all know Josh can't shoot, so why doesn't he move more toward the paint without the ball? On the flip side, I have no problem with Josh getting the ball on the outside, if he's looking to make a play for someone else. One thing he can do in Drew's offense, is rack up the assists. He's a good passing big man that is a willing passer at times. People may not want to see/hear this, but it's like I've always said on here . . . Woody did a lot more to develop Josh's offensive game than people give him credit for - he moved Josh to the 4 after Harrington left, instead of starting Marvin at the 4 or even Shelden at the 4. - he encouraged Josh to work on his pot game, even calling ISO plays for him to work in the post. - he encouraged Josh, when he caught the ball from 15 feet and out, to take his man off the dribble to score or draw a foul. The ISO offense actually helped Josh become more of a threat on offense. But keep in mind that Josh has always been an early offense ( i.e. - a transition offense type scorer ). His points need to come on the break, and not necessarily within the halfcourt offense. The other thing that people aren't talking about, is Josh's rebounding. To me, that's always been the area in which he can become a much better player. His role in Drew's offense can also be that of an offensive rebounder who puts the ball in the hole. But he has to be around the rim to be in position to do that. Can't do that when he's 21 feet from the basket. If the dude simply plays closer to the rim, his FG% may be around 55%, and he'd easily make the All-Star team. Like I've also always said . . . he wants to be more like Rasheed Wallace, than Shawn Kemp. He needs to KILL "Smoove" . . and become "Smash".

Powell isn't a great shooter by any means. But he's a better shooter than Josh Smith. Powell has actually been making the midrange jumper all preseason.

Easily the tip pass by JJ to Marvin for the dunk. Because last year, JJ would've posed in the corner after shooting the 3, instead of following up his shot . . and Marvin would've never been under the basket to get a rebound or even in position to receive that tip pass. JJ's intelligence as a player, combined with Marvin being in the right spot AND going up aggressive with the ball and dunking it, made that the play of the night.