TheNorthCydeRises

When you become a winning team, you still should try to upgrade the squad. One of the priorities of this team this offseason had to be to try to get some frontcourt help. They had 2 shots to do it: - draft a player, whether it be a power forward or a center . . . ( especially after they got an extra pick ) - sign a free agent that could become a rotational player on the frontline . . . ( using the entire MLE if need be ) They failed to do it on both accounts. Offseason moves and grades . . .from my perspective using the 4.0 scale: A = 4 B = 3 C = 2 D = 1 F = 0 - not hiring Avery Johnson: C - hiring Larry Drew: C. . ( grade should probably be I = incomplete ) - trading the #24 to move down to #27 and acquire the #31 pick: A - drafting Jordan Crawford: B - selling that pick for 3 million: F - re-signing JJ for 6 yrs - 124 million: B ( edit: ) - trading Josh Childress for a 3 million TPE: D - signing Josh Powell: D - signing Jason Collins: F - failing to secure Shaq when everybody else dropped out of the running: D Total points: 17 . . . divided by 10 actions Grade: 1.7 = C- This grade may be even lower, depending on how one views the JJ Max signing. It may be higher, depending on how good of a hire they think Larry Drew is.

KB.. . give us a grade for this offseason.

I mean dang. Joe Johnson is the perfect example. Had the Hawks, Knicks, and Bulls came at JJ with 5 yr - 100 mill, who does JJ sign with? How many people will honestly say that he signs somwhere else but here? ((( raising my hand )) If ownership felt that they could've gotten him for 5/100 , they would've signed him to that deal. Instead, they not only offer him the 6th year, they max him out . . not even giving him a chance to think about it much. So if we had to overpay to retain our own player, what makes people think that we wouldn't have to "overpay" for Shaq . . or at least pay a little more than others? Had we: - hired Avery Johnson as coach - drafted JC2 - used the damn #31 pick on another youngster - signed Shaq ( 2 yrs - 11.52 mill ) - then filled the final roster spot with a vet People would be praising the ASG, and our offseason would have at least been a grade of B. Instead, they get a C- . . . only because JJ was re-signed, albeit at an inflated price and because they drafted JC2. Everything else was an F, or an incomplete ( hiring of Drew ).

Crawful . . . we are the Atlanta Hawks. We haven't deserved to get the benefit of the doubt from anyone. No history of winning. 2 superstar players since the franchise has been in Atlanta ( Pistol Pete and Dominique ). A long track record of the front office (( bleepin )) up. We're not supposed to get the same respect as championship teams like Boston or San Antonio. So when a primadonna like Shaq reportedly makes a demand like that, you simply stick to your guns. You don't get offended that he wants more "perks" in ATL, than he'd get somewhere else. No. You simply lay out your case to him, and negotiate a compromise - First off . . you tell him exactly what the money situation is: 2 yrs - 12 mill ( the entire MLE ) . . 2nd year player option. That's all we have to offer. - Second . . you define his role. Heck, I would even give him a chance to compete for the starting job . . because like it or not .. the Horford / Smoove frontline IS an issue vs big teams. If Horford is better than Shaq, then Shaq comes off the bench. If Shaq is a better anchor in the middle, you start Shaq and slide Horford to PF. As for Smoove, you can always experiment in preseason. If i doesn't kill us, start him at SF, but only play him 4 minutes there to start the game. I may even go so far as to tell Shaq that he WILL start vs such and such teams ( Orlando, Lakers, etc ), so he'll know when to be ready. You tell him that we want him healthy for most of the year. This means limiting his playing time, unless he really has it rolling in a game. Otherwise, he's going to be limited to around 20 - 25 minutes a night. The reason why he's here, is for the playoffs, not necessarily for the regular season. - Third . . you tell him that we can set him up with marketing opportunities outside of basketball, that could help him bring in more revenue to himself. I'm calling up every corporation affliated with the Hawks, telling then that Shaq is coming, and he may want to be used in their marketing campaigns. - Fourth . . in a separate meeting, you bring in JJ, Smoove, and Al, and tell them your plan to get Shaq here. Explain to them that their playing time will NOT be cut, but that we may have to do a few minor things to accommodate Shaq. - Fifth . . after laying all of this out, you give Shaq 10 days to decide. Take it or leave it. If he leaves it, publically announce that you're not interested in Shaq anymore. Folks, we are the Hawks. Bad franchises ( and yes, we are historically a "bad franchise" ) cannot expect to negotiate on the same level as a "storied" franchise. There is give and take. But everything is negotiable. The ASG shouldn't have been spooked by some outlandish demands. You stick to your guns, but be realistic about what you offer the man. Have a damn game plan to get a quick decision out of him. But it's all over and done with now, because our ownership couldn't even get past Step 1. Somebody should tell the ASG to watch the movie "Training Day" (( "This is chess, son . . it ain't checkers" ))

Niremetal saved me from doing a lot of typing. He pretty much said what needed to be said. Offensively, Horford isn't even on Carlos Boozer's level yet, let alone Tim Duncan.

I wonder what would've happened if they weren't able to swing the deal to get the extra pick. Remember when the assistant GM came out publically and basically said that ( paraphrasing ) "there isn't much value @ #24 this year"? It was almost as if they were putting out there that they didn't like anybody at #24 . . . giving them the green light to sell the pick for money. Think about it. They went from not liking very little at #24, to liking TWO PEOPLE so much, that they traded down to #27 and also got the #31 . . . but decided not to use it because Daniel Orton . . . ( a guy that turned out to be the worst center amongst everybody in summer league ) . . . wasn't there at #31? And then were savvy enough to SELL a 2nd round pick for 3 million in about 15 minutes? Really? I don't believe that story for one minute. I think they were trying to sell the #24 pick all along. And if they didn't get 2 picks in return, they would've sold the #24 and we wouldn't have had a pick in round 1. That means no Jordan Crawford. You had Pittman, Varnado, Alabi, Whiteside all still on the board. But you sell the pick because ORTON is gone? Nah . . I'm not buying that at all. But I did at first, because the only logical way that the 3 million could be used to upgrade the team, is by using it to cover any luxury tax. If they had no intention of going over the Luxury Tax, selling the pick didn't matter in the first place. Why even bring up that "you want to add vets to the team", immediately after the fans and ATL media started ripping them for selling the pick, if the money you sold the pick for wasn't going to be used? When you look at everything as a whole, the perception was that they were going to actively do something to upgrade the team . . . but all of their actions points toward them saving as much money as possible. The JJ deal was a necessity for the most part. Without JJ, this team loses its go-to player and one of 2 guys ( Jamal being the other ) that can create his own shot. And wit only the MLE to work with, they have no chance to replace his production. Paying JJ 15 - 20 mill less, doesn't change that. I don't think the ASG are cheap. They're just not willing to take risks to improve the product. They cannot compare themselves to Detroit or San Antonio. Those franchises take risks. Anytime a franchise trades for one of the biggest head cases on Earth at that time ( Rasheed Wallace ) . . or you see a franchise take a chance on a 1st round talent that's falling through the draft because other teams are afraid of his bad knees ( Dejuan Blair ) . . . those franchises are willing to go that extra mile to improve the team. Selling what was essentially a late 1st round pick for money . . then signing 2 of the most unproductive players in basketball . . shows that they're not risk takers. They're only worried about the budget.

Oh OK. Thanks for the clarification.

That's why the Hawks need to decide which 2 or 3 players should make up the "core". If Horford signs a big money contract, that officially sets our core at JJ, Smoove, and Horford. Every other contract is expendible. Diesel, in the 5 years of ripping Marvin, you have proven to be right. You've said from the jump that he would be no more than a Derek McKey type player. That's pretty much been on the money. He's not "completely garbage" like you state sometimes. But he's not an impactful player. That makes him exxpendible. He's not a "core" player, in my opinion. As for Jamal, Jordan was drafted to assume Jamal's role off the bench, in the event that we lost JJ to free agency. So you'll have to believe that theory still reigns true concerning the potential departure of Jamal next season. If Jamal is brought back, it may be for a 3 yr / MLE level contract.

Yep . . thanks for not signing someone who is still one of the top 10 most popular players in the league, and a guy who is still better than 75% - 80% of the centers in the league. I wonder if those agents get paid a commission according to what kind of package that they sell? If they do, you probably got some mad people right now.

As for who we need, it's obvious . . . No sense discussing a big center, when we refuse to go out and get him. Our final signee will probably be a SF.

The game is played WITH shoes on, not without. It's silly to even mention the "without shoes" height, just to win an argument. That's like a woman who is 5'9" telling a man of the same size, that she can't date him, because she's taller than him in heels and she loves to wear heels. The man says . . "but you're the same height as I am. Just don't wear heels, and you won't be taller." She's not going to stop wearing heels, thus, making her 6 foot or 6'1" in heels. The undet 6 foot guy is out of luck.

The poll won't let me vote, seeing that I didn't click on any of the other options. Add a "I wouldn't trade JJ for any of this" in that 2nd section

LOL @ pimp . . . . EXACTLY. People didn't even know who Jason Collins was before last summer. Now he was "misused"? It's whatever now though. Horford needs to mentally prepare himself to become a top 5 rebounder, while Smoove needs to channel his inner "Shawn Kemp" and start trying to dunk on everybody in his path. And JJ needs to become a 40% 3 point shooter in our "pentagle offense". I can finally quit worrying about this team till October. After the NBA schedule comes out next week, my focus will be TOTALLY on the Bengals.

Sund: "Jason Collins will be a vital part of our core. With his great defensive, rebounding, and low post scoring abilities, he will be an integral part of the Hawks this year. With Josh Powell and Jason Collins on the team, we not only add excellent frontcourt depth, we add championship caliber players to our already strong starting 5. We feel very fortunate to get these two vets at 1.2 million a year. They will far surpass anything we could've gotten from Shaquille O'Neal. Now . . . let's stop being so negative, and look forward to a 3rd place finish in the Southeast division."

LOL @ the responses. Diesel is correct though.

I've already said on the AJC Hawks Blog, that instead of me traveling to ATL and trying to make 10 games a year, I would actually commit to some sort of ticket package. Probably a 1/2 season ticket package, buying 2 tickets together ( in the 200 level section . . . preferably Sec. 201 or 207 in the corners ). I'll still go to my 5 - 10 games a year, but I would be looking to sell those other tickets to people looking to go to Hawks games. I also know a young couple in their mid-20s who'd I'd flat out give tickets to ( or sell to them at a very reduced rate ) on occasion. It would be hard doing that right now, because there is no buzz about the Hawks. Add Shaq though, and you all of a sudden get that buzz, making the selling of tickets easier to do. When that NBA schedule comes out next Tuesday, it will give me a good idea of what games I want to attend. The ASG, if they still want Shaq, is about to lose out on possible National TV games if he's not signed before that schedule comes out.

Buckeye . . . the reason T.O. is a Bengal right now, is because of Carson Palmer. He's the one that was working out with Owens in Cali, and called coach Marvin Lewis about T.O. and how he could help the team. LOL . . now once the games start, I'm sure #9 will let T.O. what is up, just like he has to do Chad at times. And don't forget, the Bengals even picked up Pac Man Jones as an kick/punt returner and an extra Nickel DB. They have all kinds of "potential cancers" on that team. But at least they're going for it. Wish the ASG would approach the Shaq situation in similar fashion.

This news just ruined my day. But I was afraid that it would end up like this. Anytime you see the words "financial problems" and "missing" describing a situation, it's never a good thing. I feel sad that his kids and extended family weren't enough to live for. In a strange way, I hope this turns out to be a murder, made to look like a suicide, just so that it will show that Lorenzen didn't just "give up" on life. R.I.P Lorenzen . . my thoughts and prayers definitely go out to his family. From everything I've known about Ren since high school, this was a good dude. He will be missed.

I agree. And to kind of piggy back on this, the ASG's time to sign this dude is actually running out, if the want to reap the type of buzz, preparation, and economic benefits that a Shaq to Atlanta will bring. I am so proud of my Bengals for taking a chance with Terrell Owens. You see what is happening in Cincinnati right now, right? Everybody is now talking about that team, and the fan base is getting excited. They addressed a need on that team ( wide receiver ), and upgraded it with a veteran guy who at the very least, can still be a good possession receiver and an occasional deep threat. This may open up the entire field for either Chad Johnson, or the young TE Grisham out of Oklahoma, who can catch the hell out of the ball. Once that schedule comes out, they may lose national TV games ( especially on TNT ). Instead, they'd rather hold onto Marvin for dear life, or not pay a little Luxury Tax to bring him in.

And most important . . . trust what you see with your OWN EYES.

Well let's put it to the test KB. It's not like this isn't easy to look up. I'll go through the playoff teams, and let you and other decide if that player contributed more to wins, vs what the win share/48 stat tells you who actually did according to their stat. ATLANTA Mario West: .106 Mike Bibby: .104 BOSTON Shelden Williams: .162 Rajon Rondo: .156 Kendrick Perkins: .117 CHARLOTTE Derrick Brown: .114 Boris Diaw: .113 CHICAGO Acie Law: .101 Derrick Rose: .100 John Salmons: .092 ( while he was in Chicago ) CLEVELAND JJ Hickson: .123 Antwan Jamison: .122 Shaquille O'Neal: .119 DALLAS Rodrique Beaubois: .134 Jason Terry: .123 DENVER Chris Andersen: .166 Carmelo Anthony: .145 LA LAKERS Pau Gasol: .220 Andrew Bynum: .180 Kobe Bryant: .160 Sasha Vujucic: .120 Ron Artest: .098 MILWAUKEE Luke Ridnour: .168 John Salmons: .165 Brandon Jennings: .075 MIAMI Dorrell Wright: .137 Udonis Haslem: .132 OKLAHOMA CITY James Harden: .124 Russell Westbrook: .105 ORLANDO Marcin Gortat: .151 Rashard Lewis: .132 Jameer Nelson: .130 PORTLAND Nicolas Batum: .181 Brandon Roy: .180 Andre Miller: .134 PHOENIX Louis Amundson: .118 Grant Hill: .109 SAN ANTONIO Matt Bonner: .153 George Hill: .142 Tony Parker: .101 UTAH Kyle Korver: .130 Wesley Matthews: .108 So does the win share tell the absolute truth? Or can it be disputed? LOL . . . can it be HEAVILY disputed? When you look at stats, you pretty much have to look at everything. Because there's not one stat that will tell you all you need to know about a player. You pretty much have to look at everything from all angles, to make an educated assessment of what that player has the ability to do, and what his worth to a team is. To think that the "win shares" stat isn't as flawed as any other stat, is simply not being honest. Like all stats, it does give you some idea of what is going on. But it is NOT the end all . . be all.

The crazy thing . . . is that NIQUE may STILL be the face of the Hawks. And he hasn't played in ATL in over 15 yrs.

He would be a business boom. That's almost non-debatable. In all of our discussions about the fan base in ATL, the one thing that most people agree on, is that ATL fans like to see big name players, no matter what the sport. Shaq is still one of the most popular players in the league. The "circus", as you call him, can still play basketball. As for the teams that can land Shaq, he's only considering top level playoff teams. Squads like Miami, LA Lakers, and Phoenix are automatically eliminated, because he's already been there. San Antonio passed on him. Orlando doesn't need him. Boston may need him, because of the Perkins injury. And Dallas decided to re-up on the younger Brendan Haywood. We're really the only team who could definitely use him, plus see the effect of his arrival at the box office. If the fans, and ATL in general, need someone to bring them out to more games, Shaq is it. No other entity on this team has the appeal of a Shaq. As far as making him the "face of the franchise", why not? Who do people think of when they think of the Hawks? Who is the face of the franchise right now? Is it JJ? I bet a lot of people would disagree with that, despite him being our highest paid player. Is it Smoove? He's the guy that you'll most likely see on Sportscenter, but do a lot of people go to games specifically to see Josh Smith? Is it Horford? Do people race to Philips to see him? How about Crawford? Does the "tricky dribble" excite fans enough to go see it when we play Memphis? Do other NBA fans specifically go to games to specifically see any of these players? This would be a good question to ask non-Hawk fans. Who IS the face of the Hawks? If Shaq wants to make Atlanta . . . "Shaq-Lanta", I have no problem with that. If it meant increased revenue at the gate and from advertising, I'm putting Shaq's face everywhere concerning the Hawks. If that what it takes to move the meter in ATL, then so be it. JJ is so laid back, he probably wouldn't even care. Nor would Horford. Smoove might though. From an arena capacity standpoint, the Hawks drew almost exactly the same amount at home, than they did out on the road ( 88.3% at home to 88.5% on the road ). The 88% may sound good, but that ranked 18th overall, if you combine both totals. Add Shaq to the mix, and both of those percentages probably go into the 90% range. You can't ignore the 15 million in endorsements he got last year ( 2nd in the NBA behind Lebron . . and just ahead of Kobe and Wade ). You can't deny that the "old man" was still in the top 10 in jersey sales last year. You can't deny that women still love that dude. I would bet that Shaq's ATL jersey would instantly become the #1 jersey bought in Atlanta in 2010. His track record to "move the needle" speaks for itself.

I'm not going to go as far as to say that Howard can't guard Shaq, even though with his size, Shaq has gotten him in foul trouble in the past. ( which is another asset that Shaq brings to the table. He forces opposing bigs to play him on the offensive end, and can draw fouls against them ) They just want you to believe that Shaq ( at age 38 ) is a garbage basketball player not even worth considering. The truth is, they simply don't like the dude, and wouldn't add him on the team, regardless of what price we could get him at. To compare Shaq to Zaza is ridiculous. Almost laughable. KB has to hold on desperately to that "win share" stat, because every other stat about Shaq will support the fact that he's still a very productive player. What he won't tell you, is that "win shares" is a stat based on overall individual and team production while a player is on the court . . compared to overall team production total. In essence . . you have to play a lot and produce a lot, to post a good win share number most of the time. Funny thing is . . Shaq with his small 3.1 win share number, is still better than Zaza's, Collins', and Powell's win shares . . . COMBINED Zaza: 2.7 Powell: 0.0 Collins: -0.1 ( which is damn near impossible to do, unless you just flat out suck ) Total win shares: 2.6 But these are the lies that they want to sell you on. That Shaq is sooooo sorry, that a 3-headed monster like Zaza, Powell, and Collins is a better alternative than he is. The same people that act like Shaq destroyed Phoenix, won't even tell you that it was SHAQ who led that team in win shares in 2008 - 09. But one of the main reasons why he led them in win shares, was because Amare Stoudemire got hurt and only played in 53 games that year. But it's easier to perpetuate lies and say that it was Shaq's fault that the team didn't live up to expectations, than to actually look at the truth, and cite Amare's injury as a BIG REASON why the Suns didn't make the playoffs that year. Just like it is easy to say that Cleveland declined, despite the Cavs going 40 - 13 with Shaq in the lineup. It's sad what is going on here. But I'll tell the truth, by stating nothing but the FACTS: * Shaq's PER last year: 17.9 ( 2nd on the Cavs, and would've been 5th on the Hawks . . . 16th overall amongst all centers . .really #15, if you take the guy who only played 2 games out. ) * Shaq's Per 36 Numbers last year: 18.5 ppg - 10.3 rebs - 1.8 blks - 57% FG ( those numbers are better than Brook Lopez, Andrew Bynum, Al Horford and a host of other guys ) * Shaq's PER on a 48 minute basis at Center last year: 20.3 ( top 15 amongst the centers ) * Shaq's Opponents PER on a 48 minute basis at Center last year: 14.4 ( which is TOP 5 amongst the centers . . this is basically Shaq's Defensive PER at Center ) * Shaq drew a foul on 20% of his shots last season: ( only Zaza was better last year for the Hawks at 21% . . . Smoove: 18% . . . Horford: 14% ) Those are just some of the things that one can tangibly see on a nightly basis, when you watch the guy play. These guys are simply better off criticizing Shaq for his supposed locker room destructive traits and his supposed demands for money and playing time which will prevent him from accepting a role off the bench. Because the "Shaq is barely better than Zaza" argument is complete BS. The "Shaq is a scrub" argument, is complete BS. You would essentially add a starting quality center to the Hawks, that would backup Al Horford, plus allow him to play more PF to really showcase what he can potentially do. From a basketball and economical standpoint, It's an absolute no-brainer to bring Shaq to Atlanta. And just about everybody knows this, except our scared and "frugal" owners, and a few fans that can't stand Shaq. Never fear though. Zaza, Powell, and maybe Collins can get the job done. They'll adequately backup Smoove and Horford, and all will be well.

Our 3rd acquired "Josh" in 6 years. Yea? Powell is doing something right though. For a guy who is now on his 6th tean in 6 years, and has only one time ranked in the top 60 in efficiency at his position ( PF or C ) in 5 years, he keeps finding a way to land a job. He either has a damn good agent, or makes a great impression on people and gets glowing recommendations from his previous team. I just don't want Sund To oversell this transaction. Don't come out talking . . "he's very good" or "he is going to help us". Please don't do any of that. Don't have fans believing that Powell deserves 15 min a night, like some believed with Joe Smith. ( sigh ) . . . it is what it is though. Welcome back to ATL Josh Powell.