TheNorthCydeRises

If JJ took the exact same deal as Lebron, we'd still be in the same situation in how much we'd have to spend in free agency/. You know that. So stop being silly. The fact is that it is NOT the obligation of a team's star player to go out and recruit and sign players. It's the job of the dang front office. Why be mad at something that JJ's agent said, when you know good and damn well that the REAL problem is with ownership and the front office.

Maybe because he sucks.

Totally agree with Buzz, Dejay, and Unchaged. And that's what pizzed me off yesterday. LOL @ Sund. And I agree. NO ONE is untouchable on the Hawks. If a trade can be made that upgrades the team . . you do that. Instead, it seems that the marketing strategy of the ASG, is to add as many guys that has ties to Atlanta or the state of Georgia as possible. What was that guy's name that used to play at Michigan? Pettway (aka "Air Georgia" ). Might as well sign him too ASG.

Let me clarify. I don't like Jeff Schultz's writings most of the time. Personally, I have nothing against the man. But his article hit it right on the head. The Hawks are way too passive in this free agent period. I tell you what though. If guy like Jordan Crawford comes out of the gate, and PROVES that he can ball on this level, Drew bet not keep him buried on the bench, in favor of a Mo Evans, especially if Mo played like he did last year. And when I say "ball", I mean that you can see that whenever Jordan comes into a game, he make an immediate impact. Basically, the ASG is rolling the dice that either our top players are going to get significantly better, or that Teague and Jordan can come right in and make an immediate impact. Now you have these Chris Paul rumors out again. But the ASG loves their "core" so much, that they wouldn't dare give away one of the core guys to get Paul. You have to wonder if Jamal Crawford + a 1st round pick . . or Josh Smith + a 1st round pick, would be an offer that New Orleans would seriously look at?

KB . . To me, this isn't even about Shaq anymore. It's about looking at this team and seeing where you can upgrade it. If the ASG want to keep JJ, Smoove, Horford, and even Crawford in the mix as our core . . . fine. They all came up big last year. But everybody else is expendable. And to me, if you have to trade fringe guys for another guy that a team doesn't want, then you do that ( like we did by acquiring Jamal Crawford ). Or if you bring in a guy, bring in one who can replace some of our more inconsistent players. We are a very good team when you look at our top 4 to 5 players. But after that, we have a group of very inconsistent players that don't even do one thing well on a consistent basis. When this ownership and GM tries to sell the fans garbage like Jason Collins, Joe Smith, Josh Powell, or whatever scrub that they'll bring in will help us, you know that they're not serious. They are much better off going with some young energetic guy, than to bring a jouneyman, non-productive player in here. Even in the case of Flip Murray, you could at least say that he was a productive bench player. Flip wasn't garbage. Nor was Mo Evans. I'd much rather use most of the MLE on one guy who can be a good rotational player, than to split it 3 ways on guys who you know won't play at all. Spend your money on a Hakim Warrick type player, if you're going to do something. Don't waste it on Jason Collins and Josh Powell. Seriously? You know what I think happened? When everybody in the market started getting overpaid, these guys blinked. They were probably expecting to secure guys like Brad Miller or Big Z for 2 million. But when Z wants to chance a ring, and Brad takes 5 mill per year to play in Houston, these guys were like "whoa . . . I didn't know that these guys would make that much. Oh well, we're not spending that much money on one player. We might as well spend the rest of the money on scrubs." It's ironic, because it may have been THEY who started the ball rolling with the excessive spending with the JJ contract. I still say we had to do it, but these other teams feel that they had to spend the money that they spent on these other guys to stay competitive. Seriously . . . if these guys were real about what they say, they would've convinced Chill to sign a deal that he couldn't turn down ( unless he wanted out of Atlanta at all costs ). Does 5 yrs - 30 million right off the bat secure Chill? And then they would've told Chill that he would be given a legit chance to compete for the starting SF job. If we had just found a way to do that, no one would be complaining much, because we all know that Chill is a bonafide rotation type player. And we would still have the MLE to use if we wanted to add 2 more people. See . . I was duped into believing that these guys were serious about building a winner, or at the very least, upgrading the theam, based on the moves that they themselves made, and the reasons they say they made the move. - brought in Avery Johnson for 3 INTERVIEWS ( a coach who has led a team to the NBA Finals ), but decided to hire in-house with Larry Drew . . I'm not overly mad at that. It didn't help their perception of cheapness or seriousness about getting to that next level, but let's see what Drew can do with this squad, seeing that he's familiar with them. But still . . why bring in Avery for 3 interviews, and then let him slip away from you? - made a shrewd draft night deal to get the #27 and #31 pick . . . they use the #27 on Jordan Crawford ( whom we all like now ), but sell the #31 for 3 million cash. . . . OK. . . nice move to trade down and still get the player that you wanted, and we were told that they sold the #31 pick because the player that they wanted ( Daniel Orton ) was off the board, and because they could now go after veteran free agents. OK . . that's cool. As long as you can secure decent free agents, the fans aren't going to be too upset at what you did. - trade Childress to Phoenix for a 2nd round pick and a 3 mill TPE . . . if that's the best they could get from Chill, and Chill didn't want to play here, OK. But you're now seeing a disturbing pattern developing. They passed on the big name coach that they would have to pay, and went with the cheapest possible option at coach. They trade away what was virtually another late 1st round pick, just to get money. and now they trade Chill for a 2nd round pick that they probably won't use, and a TPE that is so low, that they may not be able to use that either. - rumors about Shaq swirl constantly about him possibly coming to Atlanta, but the Hawks don't make a move to secure him. . . . If he wants 8 mill per year . . OK. But he does address a need of this team . . a BIG need. Then you hear how they value their team, and especially Marvin Williams, a guy whose been nothing more than mediocre since he's been in ATL. A serviceable player, but nowhere near a guy that you MUST keep. - reports come out that the Hawks will retain Jason Collins . . which was the last straw for me. If they are REALLY serious about bringing back one of the most non-productive big men of the last 4 years, that means that they aren't serious. They're simply trying to fill roster spots now. - Jeff Schultz ( who I don't like at all ), gets a direct quote from Sund, saying that they're trying to build an elite team, without going into the Luxury Tax . . . which makes just about everything that I've written before to be a FLAT OUT LIE by the ASG. They knew the minute that they were going to pay JJ a 100+ million contract, that they had no intention of spending money on a rotational player who could help us. Even if JJ signed for less than he did, they still wouldn't spend on that kind of player. And you CAN get a rotational player for the MLE, and he can help your team ( see James Posey @ Boston ).

It didn't go any differently than what I planned. I simply wanted to apologize for ripping on the fans like I did. My loyalty to the Hawks is still unconditional, even with bad management. But I realize now that this ownership group isn't serious about building a winner, partially because they seem so indecisive about what they want to do and who they want to go after. Too many times, they settle for the absolute bottom of the barrel type player.

smh @ some of you guys trying to spin this as a good signing. Be honest. Did ypu see ANY Laker games this year in which Josh Powell impressed you even a little bit? Solo is a better player than Powell. My boy Wayne Chism who went undrafted at the U of Tennessee, is a better player than Powell. This is sad.

I apologize to all of those fans of the Hawks that I have ripped going on 2 years now, for not stepping up more as fans. While I still believe everything that I've said about fan responsibility over the years, I will NEVER AGAIN criticize the people and fans in Atlanta for not supporting this team more. This ownership group and the GM gives you NO REASON WHATSOEVER to believe that they truly want to bring a real winner to Atlanta. They just don't. We potentially have 2 of the top 5 teams in our own division, and these guys act like everything is gonna be alright. Sund is over there singing songs . . like he's Chante Moore and ish. ( Go youtube "Chante Moore - Alright", if you don't know what I'm talking about ) I'll still make my 5 to 10 trips a year to see the team because I like watching the Hawks live and in person. But no more criticizing what others do with their money concerning the Hawks. Shame on them for bringing up Detroit and San Antonio as the "models" that they're going by. Hell . . we haven't even reached an Eastern Conference Final yet with the Hawks in Atlanta, yet, he wants to make comparions to Detroit and San Antonio? GTFOH with that. Sund must think the entire fan base are complete idiots, by making a statement like that. So once again, I apologize to you men and women who took offense to my rants about the fans. This organiization is flat out afraid to take risks. That means that THEY are not a "championship caliber ownership". (( bleep )) them.

Jason Collins is garbage . . . and has been for a while now. Joe Smith too. But everything is Woody's fault. Woody made that oil well explode and leak into the Gulf of Mexico too.

After that Sund article that Jeff Schultz did today, I'll have to change my opinion of the ASG. If they're not willing to go over the luxury tax to possibly upgrade the team, then I can't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. They may not be "cheap . . cheap", but they're not big league owners. The only way this team gets over the top ( as is ), is if JJ, Horford, and Smoove play like top 3 guys at their respective positions. Our goal is to continue to put an elite caliber ballclub on the floor and stay within the model [owner] Bill Davidson had when the Pistons were winning championships and what San Antonio did with their spending and the way they stayed under the luxury tax. - Rick Sund The ASG might as well be BP, for all I'm concerned.

LOL @ DeJay. I'm just saying . . . . what people are saying now, is the exact same thing Philly was thinking when they hired Eddie Jordan and his "Princeton Offense". Then, when his offense didn't transform that Philly team into a good offense, they blamed Jordan and fired him. But the real problem in Philly, was that they had a bunch of inconsistent shooters and post players on that team. So if a few players don't rasie their level of play within Drew's offense, they better not dare blame Drew. They better put full responsibility on that player. All I'm asking out of Marvin, is to play consistent basketball. If he and Bibby were more consistent last year, JJ averages close to 6 assists a game easily, because those were the two guys left wide open on most occasions.

Man please. Some of you have been flat out BRAINWASHED into believing that the ONLY problem that this team had, was Woody. You guys are going to be in for a RUDE AWAKENING once the season starts, because some of these same players are going to play the exact same way. Marvin couldn't make OPEN JUMPSHOTS last year. Marvin wasn't active nearly enough on the defensive end. Why should he ( or anybody else on this team ) get a pass, but he be coddled for yet another year? Marvin is 6 - 9 . . 235 - 240 lbs. Why can't HE be that 3rd big time rebounder? Why can't HE be the guy that steps up and be the energy player that Childress was? I could give Marvin the benefit of the doubt, as long as he was making that open jumper. But when he started missing the one shot that he could consistently make, he basically became useless to this team from a dependability standpoint. We couldn't even depend on that dude. So why ALWAYS blame Woody? I tell you what. If Woody was the problem here . . . I want to see Marvin average 15 ppg . . while shooting 50% FG and 40% 3FG. Marvin doesn't deserve any more of a break than anybody else here. Either he steps up and be a consistent role player, or we need to get his butt outta here. We are a PLAYOFF TEAM . . not a LOTTERY TEAM looking to rebuild. The patience level on players totally change, once you get to be a good team.

So here's the 1 million dollar question. If Shaq called out JJ for a bad performance, would that be a BAD thing? Isn't that the same thing that people are wishing that JJ did to other players on this team, instead of simply holding it in . . or saying something vague in the media about "we didn't play well", instead of "I didn't play well" or "player X needs to play better for us to win"?

But it's a stupid article, seeing that the only reason why Lebron and Wade aren't paid the max, is because they're all playing with each other . . and . . . that the Heat would've been forced to bring in ALL minimum contract players if they didn't. Lebron, Bosh and Wade's "sacrifice" was strictly done to sign the sharpshooter ( Mike Miller ) to a multi-year contract. If Lebron goes to NYC, he's not taking less than the MAX. If Wade goes to Chicago, he's not taking less than the MAX. Ish . . if JJ was the 3rd person to join Lebron and Wade in Miami, even JJ would've taken less to play with that squad. Even in Dirk's situation, he was paid the MAX that he could've been paid for a 4 year contract. When Dirk opted out early, he was being paid at a MAX level. I think he was due almost 20 million next season. What the writer doesn't realize ( or flat out ignores ), is that Dirk opted out for the same reason why Pierced opted out . . . to get a new, multi-year big money contract before they turned 36. They both probably wanted to test the market while they were still a hot name ( and injury free ), but they also wanted their current teams to give them a big money extension . . which they did. And especially in Dirk's case, the "Over 36 Rule" is the reason why he was only offered a 4 year contract at 20 million per year, instead of a 5 year contract at 20 million per year. We were NOT securing Joe Johnson in Atlanta at 6 yrs - 100. A team like Chicago or NY would've frontloaded a 5 year - 100 million contract, and took JJ right from us. And then what we would've been left with? A big trade exeption? And who do you use that exception on, that will fill the void that JJ leaves at SG/SF? And how does that get us to that next level as a team. And these writers would've still called JJ "overpaid" at 6/100. Personally, as Danny Glover says on the Lethal Weapon movies . . those sportswriters that all of a sudden are "worried" about us and what we do, can all go (( bleep )) themselves. T facts are that JJ will NOT make 20 million a year, until around Year 4 of his contract. We're trying to stay in contention as a team RIGHT NOW. When 2014 gets here, we can evaluate how JJ has played up until that point, and how it has correlated to the success or lack of success of the team. But I be damned if JJ has the worst contract of the summer, when a guy like Tyrus Thomas got a 5 yr - 40 million dollar deal.

Shaq is finding himself in a similar situation that Terrell Owens is now in. While both still have talent, teams may not want to deal with the entire package that they bring. Shaq is nowhere near the disruptive figure that T.O. is, but he is just as big of a personality. The media will always go to those two guys to get their thoughts, and neither have ever held their tongues about what they think of a situation. In the case of Shaq, we'll see how this turns out for him. I personally don't believe he's going to play for 2 million. But if the Hawks want to give themselves a chance, he's worth the risk. Just like T.O. was worth the risk in Dallas. If it doesn't pan out, the team is still talented enough to compensate for his loss. Atlanta is a different animal though. The fans want to root for somebody, and can't seem to embrace this group of Hawks, despite them improving each season. It's either going to take the Hawks really making a deep run in the playoffs, or them bringing in a big name, to energize the fan base. It's a medium risk/medium reward type situation to me, regarding Shaq.

I agree . . we desperately need another rebounder or shot blocker on this team. Or a guy who can score in the low post ( which would probably help us out offensively the most ). The last thing we need is ANOTHER high volume gunner. LOL . . and PLEASE don't make me root for Gilbert Arenas. It's bad enough I have to root for Jamal. Don't make me root for Gilbert too.

The Heat have 13 players on their roster who are signed for next season. De'Sean Bulter ( who is hurt ) and Jarvis Varnado haven't been signed yet. They would represent the final 2 roster spots left on the team, if the Heat aren't done adding people. If Varnado ( 6.5 pts - 5.5 rebs - 1.8 blks - 56% FG in Summer League ) isn't signed by them, that's the guy I want the Hawks to IMMEDIATELY go after. It's going to be a few of those 2nd round guys that people were wanting, that aren't going to get signed. They'll be temporarily available for someone to get. The other guy I like is Omar Samhan, the big Center ( 6-11 . . 265 lbs ) that was SUPPOSED to play with us in summer league, but ended up playing with Dallas. He had a pretty good summer league ( 10.5 ppg - 7.5 rebs - 53% FG ). Fundamentally, he's as sound as any of those centers drafted in the 2nd round. As for current NBA free agents, I wouldn't mind bringing in a rebounder like Craig Smith. But knowing the Hawks, they'll go with someone that they're familiar with, or someone who performed well against them. So expect either Joe Smith or Kurt Thomas. I'm praying that we don't bring Collins back here. If we do, that gives us 11 players on the roster, with only 2 spots to fill . . because we're probably rolling with only 13 players again.

These guys aren't going to stop, unless JJ has a MONSTER year . . or the Hawks make major noise in the playoffs. With all of the guys who are grossly overpaid in this league, they're worried about what JJ will be making 5 and 6 years from now, compared to some of the other star players in the league. Ima write this cat an e-mail, to explain to him what our damn situation was. I guess people just wanted us to let the dude walk, or pay him less money for him to leave us high and dry? He doesn't go in on Joe for the entire article. It's more of an article that says that MAX players aren't what they used to be. http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/steve_aschburner/07/19/max.guys/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1

Because he's totally overlooking all of the other positive aspects of their games, compared to the Boston guys. He's hyping the Boston guys up, like they're better than Wade, Lebron, and Bosh. Like I posted earlier in this thread, Wade, Lebron, and Bosh were ranked NUMBER 1 at the SG, SF, and PF positions by hoopsstats.com NUMBER 1 They're arguably 3 of the top 10 players in the league. And one of these three are going to be on the floor at all times, unless the game is a blowout. Miami will lose some games. They won't be invincible. But some people are talking like they're not going to win 50 games . . or hoping for injuries to derail the team. LOL . . that may be the ONLY thing to stop Miami . . . Injuries . . and Kobe Bryant. Just keep it real on this topic. If the Hawks assembled a team like that, we'd all be talking about NBA Finals around here.

LOL . . it's a dang shame that THIS is the best move of the offseason so far. But it's definitely a long time coming.

With Orlando and Miami in our division, we may have to win 58 games . . just to secure the #3 or #4 spot. We could end up with a better record than both the Atlantic and Central division winners . . but end up the #5 seed . . because Orlando and Miami finished ahead of us.

JJ is going to make a whopping 1.8 million more this year, than he made last year. Some of you guys act like he's getting paid 20 million this year. He won't make 20 mill a year until around year 4 of his contract. His contract has nothing to do with the ASG unwillingness to make a move.

I don't agree with Hotlanta much, but we definitely agree on this. Jason Collins is one of the most useless players in the NBA. He had a PER at center last year of 0.95 LOL . . how do you have LESS than a 1 PER? That's almost impossible to do. That means that you're doing almost nothing on the court. He's not even rebounding. And people expected Woody to pay that scrub more? I would bet that all of those 2nd round scrub centers that we passed up, are all better than Collins. http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Jason%20Collins

The ASG and Sund should be ashamed of themselves, if they bring that dude back here. Sund thinks he's smarter than everybody else, and can find "diamonds in the rough". Collins is more like a penny in the mud though.

Marvin was the 22nd ranked SF on hoopsstats.com That's starter quality. The problem with the Hawks, is the depth behind the starters was pizz poor. I think most everyone agrees that we'll be one of the top teams in the East. The problem, is that we have to overtake either Orlando or Miami to secure a top 4 seed. If we finish behind both of them, we can be no higher than a #5 seed. Even if Orlando, Miami, and Atlanta finish 1 - 2 - 3 in records, we'll STILL be the #5 seed, because the division winners must get one of the top 4 seeds. So at #5, our 1st round matchup will be against the worst division winner . . with them having home court advantage. And our potential 2nd round matchup will be against the top team in the East, with them having the home court advantage. That's where the problem lies. We have 2 superpowers in our own division which could definitely affect our playoff seeding. As is right now, I still think we're a 48 - 52 win team. But unless our star players improve ( JJ, Smoove, Horford ), we're not built for the playoffs.