TheNorthCydeRises

Of the people who are left, here's where they rank according to their respective position . . according to Hoopsstats. Their rankings ( both team and individual ), are based off of overall efficiency ). I'll list the players from SG to C of some of the names that people have thrown around. This definitely doesn't mean that we can afford some of these people though. I guess the way to look at this is like this: 1 - 10: Star player at their position 11 - 20: Solid Starter 21 - 30: Role playing starter 31 - 40: Solid bench player 41 - 50: Role playing bench player 51 - 60: Fringe bench player Over 61: Benchwarmer SHOOTING GUARD - Iverson: #24 - McGrady: #31 SMALL FORWARD - Richard Jefferson: #20 - Matt Barnes: #24 - Damien Wilkins: #45 - Jarvis Hayes: #47 POWER FORWARD - Anthony Tolliver: #21 - Craig Smith: #47 - Kurt Thomas: #69 CENTER - Shaquille O'Neal: #25 - Josh Boone: #52 - Kwame Brown: #73 - DJ Mbenga: #83

I just did this on the AJC blog, so I'll just copy and paste part of what I did there on here. From Hoopsstats.com TEAM RANKINGS FOR THE HAWKS: 2009 - 10 OVERALL: #11 BACKCOURT: #4 FRONTCOURT: #13 STARTERS: #6 BENCH: #17 IN THE PAINT: #5 OUT THE PAINT: #13 PG OVERALL: #20 SG OVERALL: #3 SF OVERALL: #27 PF OVERALL: #8 C OVERALL: #5 ***************************** INDIVIDUAL RANKINGS BY POSITION PG: Bibby – #39 . . Teague – #73 G: Johnson – #5 . . Jam Crawford – #17 . . Mario – #85 . . Jor Crawford ( R ) - ??? SF: Marvin – #22 . . Mo Evans – # 50 - PF: Smoove – #7 . . Joe Smith – #73 C: Horford – #6 . . Zaza – #61 . . Collins – #101 ********************** When you look at our team, it’s obvious what the problem is . . . . lack of QUALITY depth. So ANY quality we can add to this team, will be a plus. I agree with the others when they say if a guy like Jordan Crawford proves in camp that he’s a better player than Mo Evans, the rookie HAS to play. The Hawks bench lost so many leads last year, it wasn’t even funny. That bench was NOT good last year. And that #17 ranking they ended up with, was between 20 – 25 for most of the year, until the bench did start playing a little better starting in March. But even then, most of that was because of Crawford. It is very important that the players I struck through, are upgraded with players who can at least be in the top 60 ( preferably top 50 ) at their respective position. Can Teague and Jordan Crawford play well enough, to move into the top 60 at their respective position? Will Bibby and Evans fall out of the top 60 next year? Are the people we're bringing in to fill out the roster, going to be in the top 60 at their respective position? ************************ A partial look at the HEAT WORLD ORDER and where their current players ranked last year at their respective position. PG: Chalmers – #53 . . Hasbrouck ( R ) – ?? SG: Wade – #1 . . Miller #11 ( he shot 48% from 3 last year ) SF: James – #1 . . Q. Richardson – #28 . . J. Jones – #64 PF: Bosh – #1 . . Haslem – #30 C: Big Z – #44 . . Ju Howard - #49 . . J. Anthony - #65 . . Pittman ( R ) -??? That could be your top 13 right there for the Heat . . with them still possibly adding rookies Jarvis Varnado and the injured De’Sean Butler. That team has 9 players rank in the top 60 in the league at their respective position . . compared to us with 7. And they have 2 legit superstars and one very good star. And their superstar players can play multiple positions, keeping at least one of them on the floor at all times. If they have any weakness, it’s in the middle. I hope Shaq has too much of an ego to join them. Because if he joins that group, it’s a wrap. But with that list of big men already on the roster, I doubt he's in their sights. If they make a move, it may be for another PG or a perimeter defensive stopper.

Shaq had an offensive PER of 20.3 at center . . . and a defensive PER of 14.2 But he's a scrub now I guess.

LOL @ defensive role player. He had a PER of 20.3 at center last year. The dude is still big, and people still aren't going to stop him if he gets the ball at point blank range. You talk like he's Zaza or somebody.

Laker fans would tell you different. The reason the series went 7 games, and maybe not 5, was because Bynum wasn't 100%. When Bynum is healthy, that team is damn near unstoppable. Gasol gets free reign out on the court at PF, while playing minutes at center vs the backup center on most occasions, until the 4th quarter. And Pau has a low post game, something that both Horford nor Smith have. When Bynum is healthy, the Lakers can throw this at teams whenever they want to. Odom ( 6 - 10 ) Gasol ( 7 - 0 ) Bynum ( 7 - 0 ) When we beat the Lakers by 17, Bynum didn't play. When Bynum played, and Gasol didn't, we lost by 18. And it was the inside scoring of Bynum in that 3rd quarter that blew that game open. I thought I already pointed this out, but maybe I did it on the AJC blog, and not here. So here it goes. Al Horford season averages: 14.2 ppg - 9.9 rebs - 55% FG Which teams did Al underperform against? CLEVELAND: 10.7 ppg - 8.0 rebs - 43% FG ( going up against SHAQ and Big Z ) DALLAS: 12.7 ppg - 7 rebs - 35% FG ( went 4 - 16 FG vs Brendan Haywood in the 2nd meeting ) LA LAKERS: 8 ppg - 7 rebs - 50% FG ( going up against Bynum and Gasol ) ORLANDO: 8 ppg - 7 rebs - 54% FG ( going up against Howard ) Whom did he excel against? GOLDEN ST: 26.5 ppg - 13 rebs - 61% FG ( going up agianst Biedrins and Turiaf, who are weak defensively ) INDIANA: 22.3 ppg - 15.7 rebs - 69% FG ( going up against Hibbert, who is awful defensively ) LA CLIPPERS: 23.5 ppg - 8 rebs - 68% FG ( going up against Kaman, who is weak defensively ) NY KNICKS: 20.5 ppg - 13.5 rebs - 56% FG ( going up against David Lee . . who is also out of position playing center ) It's really not rocket science we're talking about here. Al Horford is a potential legitimate All-Star . . if he's allowed to play PF a little bit more. If we want to keep Smoove around, fine. But at least bring in a guy who can effectively man the middle, so that Al can possibly be the focal point of the Hawks offense at PF for a little bit,while JJ gets some rest. Our 2nd unit, for the most part, was flat out horrible for most of the year. Adding a center like Shaq pretty much solidifies the middle with a player that you know can score down on the low block. A guy who averaged 12 pts and 7 rebounds in just 23 minutes, and shot 57% FG, is still an efficient offensive player. A much more efficient offensive player than most centers in the league. Like Diesel said . . . you simply lack vision on this. Shaq was NOT the reason why Phoenix and Cleveland didn't advance further than what they did when he was there. Shaq did his job. But Nash got DESTROYED by Tony Parker in the 08 series that the Spurs beat Phoenix. And Mo Williams sold the Cavs out, along with Lebron, in this year's playoffs vs Boston. Shaq is only sorry, compared to the Hall of Fame version of Shaq. Compared to everybody else, he's pretty good. And when you see Brad Miller get a 3 year - 15 million deal, it's no wonder why Shaq almost flat out refuses to play for anything less than the MLE.

Orlando, Miami, and New York all won 3 games against us last season. That could happen again. 9 total Chicago, Milwaukee, and I'll throw in Washington, will be stronger. I'll say combined, those teams can win 5 games Sweeping Boston was a dream. I'll say that we split next year. We'll also split with Charlotte. 4 games total The rest of the East we should have little trouble with. 4 losses total. Out West, the only team to sweep us, was Oklahoma City. We were 21 - 9 vs the West last year. I don't see that changing much. I'll say we go 21 - 9 again. So that 22 East losses + 9 West losses = 31 losses. As is right now, we're a 51 - 31 team. But that also means we're probably the #5 seed, and will be on the road for the 1st round of the playoffs. That is NOT good. That's a 1st round WAR vs either Boston or Chicago most likely. Us not having home court in a series like that, could spell the end of our season for us very quickly.

Let's say Shaq plays 24 minutes a game in ATL. PF - Smoove ( 32 ) - Horford ( 16 ) C - Horford ( 16 ) - Shaq ( 24 ) - Zaza ( 8 ) Those are your minutes breakdown. You could still start Horford and Smoove, and bring Shaq off the bench for 12 minutes per half. If you wanted to start the Shaq - Horford - Smith frontline, you can go like this: SF - Smith ( 8 ) - Johnson ( 24 ) - Evans ( 16 ) PF - Horford ( 22 ) - Smith ( 26 ) C - Shaq ( 24 ) - Zaza ( 12 ) - Horford ( 12 ) Al Horford was most comfortable last year being a face-up shooter from about 12 - 18 feet away from the basket. He struggled when he tried to score in the low post against bigger centers. Add a big guy like Shaq to the mix, not only will he get more face-up jumpers, when he does go into the post, it'll be against a PF his size, instead of a center bigger than him.

You know what a big body like Shaq would do for Horford? It would keep Horford a lot more fresh at the end of games, because he wouldn't have to constantly bang against bigger centers anymore. Horford would also benefit offensively, because he could assume an Amare Stoudemire like role, and be that 12 - 18 ft face up shooter that he's become very good at recently . . . instead of trying to force his post offense by backing people down. Shaq may make Horford even more dangerous.

Shaq's PER 36 numbers: 18.5 ppg 10.3 rebs 57% FG Defensive PER at center: 13.6 . . . ( #5 in the league amongst centers ) Can somebody come up with a legit reason not to add this guy, othet than "he's old"? Because basketball wise, this dude is easily a top 10 center in the league overall.

If he's producing at 18.5 ppg and 10 rebs PER 36 . . . he actually is. But we should be able to secure him for a pricetag less than 2 yrs / 16 mill. Maybe 2 yrs / 13.5 or 14 mill

Shaq PER 36 NUMBERS 18 ppg 10 rebs 57% FG Even Horford doesn't give us that kind of production PER 36. While I'd rather keep Marvin and add Shaq, I'd give up Marvin for him in a heartbeat. The time to strike for a title is NOW. Hell . . . I guess many of you forget that there may not even be a 2011 - 12 NBA season, due to a lockout. It's funny how "untouchable" Marvin is now. 2 months ago when he was "Casper" in the playoffs, people would've traded him for one of the Atlanta Dream forwards. Nobody hardly even wanted Marvin last year when he was a FA. I thought Toronto would make a play for him, but they acquired Turkoglu instead. Acquiring Shaq would be one of the best basketball and PR moves this franchise has done in a looooooong time.

And if I were Marvin, I don't know if I wouldn't be hoping to get traded to a team like Cleveland. At least there, he'll know that he's going to be getting the ball and a better chance to prove himself as a player.

Why not? Who are you going to trade Marvin for? Or a better question, who wants Marvin bad enough, that they'll trade you someone good for him?

So why would anyone believe that everything will change next year, with the same group of "scared" guys? Why not bring in somebody that you KNOW isn't scared of Dwight? Can coaching cure scaredness? Dwight isn't as dominant as WE make him out to be? REally? Howard averaged 21 pts and 16 rebounds against the Hawks. Here's what he did against some other teams - Dallas: 23 pts - 18 rebs - Houston: 21.5 pts - 18 rebs - Indiana: 19 pts - 15 rebs - Clippers: 23.5 pts - 13 rebs - Lakers: 19.5 pts - 14 rebs - New Jersey: 19 pts - 16.7 rebs - New Orleans: 25.5 pts - 11 rebs - Sacramento: 24.5 pts - 15.5 rebs That's pretty dominant if you ask me.

And this is the correct answer. Bringing Shaq to ATL may see attendance increase by 1,000 per game . . . just off of the women who may come to the games simply to see Shaq in a Hawks uniform. The fickle casual fan that you find all throughout ATL, may finally become more interested in the Hawks because the presence of Shaq. This team, as constructed, isn't built for a title run, because we lack a presence in the middle, both defensively and offensively. If we had at least one, we may be OK. But we lack that presence on both ends of the court. Horford is a good player. And he might be a better PF. But I wouldn't consider him a "presence" in the middle. - Howard is a presence - Bynum is a presence - Kendrick Perkins is a presence - Shaq is a presence We don't have that on this team. It's really the ONLY THING we don't have on this team. Marvin Williams should not be the player preventing Shaq from coming to the ATL. Because if it is, people are just going to hate on that dude even more, if he stays a mediocre player. Eventually, Marvin may be traded anyway. God forbid that we end up trading Marvin in a salary dump for expiring contracts, instead of trading for a player who can play in the rotation. Fans are scared of Shaq. Why? I don't know.

We may regret it if we DON'T do it. Horford has asked for help on the frontline. Marvin proved himself to be very expendable last year, with the way he inconsistently shot open jumpers ( 36% FG on shots from 16 - 23 feet . . . his favorite place to shoot ). When he should've been doing the other little things to help enhance his game, he didn't do it. People that are waiting on Marvin to become a star, should simply give that up at that point. Maybe his blood doesn't pump Gatorade . . because it just may not be in him. Diesel has said it from Day 1. All of us may simply have to admit that he was right. Marvin is solid defensively, no doubt. And we would need to pick up another perimeter defender to at least play spot minutes at the 3. But both JJ and Mo can play SG and SF. If need be, we simply increase JJ's minutes at the 3, and play Crawford ( both Jamal and Jordan ) at the 2. I like Marvin. I think he's been unfairly been beaten to death over the past 5 years for not living up to his #2 selection. But the fact is that Marvin is simply a complimentary player. Taking a chance on Shaq is about the best gamble we can take right now. And if it means trading Marvin to get him, I personally don't have a huge problem with that, even though I'd rather keep Marvin here but also add Shaq. At some point in time, we're going to have to stop talking about "potential" and "upside" around here. We are not a 30 win team anymore. We are a top 10 team in the league. And if we can move players to possibly upgrade the team, then that's what we need to do. The teams ahead of us have no problem trading away "potential" to upgrade the team.

Dol . . . the problem with the single coverage of Howard, is that his athleticism gets people in foul trouble. Letting Howard score all day long, enables them to pound our already weak frontline, getting multiple people in foul trouble. And when Horford got in foul trouble, the play of the frontline dropped significantly. Then, on the other end, we don't have bangers in the post that can pick up fouls on Dwight on the other end. The teams that have been able to successfully defend Orlando, started with their defense on Howard FIRST. When you have the ability to guard Howard one on one, you don't have to leave the shooters. LOL . . . Marvin Williams cannot, I repeat, CANNOT, be the reason why we don't bring in a Shaq to address our need for a change of pace big man center. I personally want to keep Marvin AND add Shaq. But Marvin can't be the reason why Shaq is not obtained . . . he just can't. He is the one player on this squad that is expendable. You play JJ at the 3, and Jamal at the 2. If you need a SF defensive specialist, go out and add a Matt Barnes or somebody. Marvin is maybe the 5th or 6th most important person on the squad. He is definitely expendable. I don't always agree with the way the fans dog him out, because he doesn't deserve it. But he is expendable. And if we have to give him up to FINALLY get a center here, so that we can see if Horford can really excel when playing PF at times, it's worth the risk.

The turnovers aren't the issue. It's Teague's mentality. That's a "give up" mentality by him, simply because he was having trouble bringing the ball up. That's a big time red flag that this coaching staff better correct with the quickness, or you'll see Jamal starting at the point next season. That's an unbelievable quote by him actually. WTF is he going to do when he has Rajon Rondo in his face?

channelsurfing.net . . . . . and atdhe.net

That list is crazy though. Ben Walace is the only one out of those guys to get less than a 3 mill per year deal? I thought Stern said that the league was in "dire financian straits"?

The sold pick at #31 gives ownership an extra 3 million to financially do whatever they want to with it Or to put it another way. If the Hawks had a payroll maximum budget of 70 million . . . and they ended up spending 1.5 million over the luxury tax . . . the league would come in and make them pay an additional 1.5 million ( the luxury tax $1 for $1 penalty ) . . . totaling 3 million the Hawks would have to pay over their set payroll budget. But now, because of the sold 2nd round pick, all they would have to do is write the league a 1.5 million check, and credit the other 1.5 million to themselves, thus, keeping them within budget. While all of us would've loved for them to use that #31 on an actual player, we do have to remember that this IS a business. And because we're a low revenue generating franchise, combined with a ownership group who may not have as deep of pockets as some of the other owners, moves like selling a pick for money may be necessary from time to time. If the extra 3 million they made by selling the pick, gives them a little more incentive to get one or two decent players that puts them over the tax, then I'm not upset with them selling the pick.

Eazy . . this "innovative" Larry Drew offense will make us look "prettier", but it won't solve 3 issues that continue to haunt this team. 1) defensive rebounding 2) low post scoring 3) interior defense on good post players Shaq's presence addresses all 3 of these problems. Shaq has PER 36 minute numbers at center that are better than Horford's. He's still arguably a top 5 - 10 center in this league. And both Smoove and Horford would be happy as hell to play alongside a big center like that. Horford has already said that he'd welcome Shaq. **************** If Anthony Tolliver was even a borderline talent that could consistently produce, don't you think that a team with big man issues like the Warriors would at least extend a qualifying offer to him? The guy doesn't play to his size. He's one of those Rasheed Wallace "I'm a PF that really wants to be a 2 guard" type players. He's a marginal offensive player, and a below average defensive player. Seriously . . . someof you need to be watching some of these other teams more. You'd see why people aren't tripping over themselves, trying to secure Anthony Tolliver.

SMH

The Hawks first real chance since Dikembe to get an actual center, and people have reservations about it. SMH Doubt Shaq's potential positive impact on the team, but want to hype up Anthony Tolliver and Matt Barnes? Incredible. This should be a last resort type thing . . . not perceived as an equal or better alternative to getting Shaq. If this is what we end up getting in the offseason, it's been a bad offseason.

No High5. I'm truly the dumb one, thinking that the fans could be a little less apathetic toward the Hawks, considering where they were as a franchise 6 years ago and where we are now. If the Falcons win a wild card game, all is well. The Hawks, on the other hand, need to get to the NBA Finals to get the same amount of admiration that the Falcons get. Technically, this Hawks team still hasn't regressed yet. But like I said . . . I'm the idiot for even suggesting that Hawk fans could be a little less "micro-critical" of this team and the ownership, even before the season starts. They just need to get Shaq here, to see if that can help the perception a little.