TheNorthCydeRises

The Salim comparison is probably a correct one. His potential though, is probably along the same lines as Ben Gordon. Jordan isn't a freakish athlete by any stretch of the imagination, so his jumper is what has to carry him in this league. And while everyone still wants to blame Woody for every player's shortcomings, the FACTS are that Salim and his jumpshot was never consistent enough for him to even be an Eddie House type in this league. And Acie's jumper was virtually non-existant, and he couldn't make lay-ups going to the hole.

Siler was much better in Game 3 today. Played 9 minutes . . . 8 pts - 3 rebs ( all offensive boards ) . . . made his 3 shots and was 2 - 4 FTs . . . still managed to pick up 5 fouls Damion James went off for 30. That dude can stroke it. We dodged a MAJOR BULLET, if we had our eyes on Daniel Orton. That guy was totally useless in this game today. Siler was much better than both Orton and Zoubek today.

They'll show a few games on NBA TV. But the greedy NBA has a NBA Summer League Broadband that they're selling for $14.95, for those that want to see the games online.

I definitely agree with this entire post. When I looked this up earlier, in my attempt to totally nullify everything Mark Bradley said in his thread about Shaq "not working in Atlanta", I have to admit that I was kind of shocked at what I saw. SHAQ’S PER 36 MINUTE numbers last year 18.5 ppg 10.3 rebs 1.8 blks 2.3 asst 57% FG 50% FT ( 6.6 attempts . . made 3.3 of them ) HORFORD’S PER 36 MINUTE numbers last year 14.5 ppg 10.1 rebs 1.2 blks 2.4 asst 55% FG 79% FT ( 3.4 attempts . . made 2.7 of them ) ************************ SHAQ’S DEFENSIVE PER 48 MINUTE numbers opponents eFG%: 46.8% opponents iFG%: 47% ( iFG = inside FG percentage . . i.e. – defense around the rim ) opponents PPG: 15.5 opponents PER: 14.2 HORFORD’S DEFENSIVE PER 48 MINUTE numbers opponents eFG%: 50.6% opponents iFG%: 60% ( this is the reason why people complain about Horford’s defense . . the 60% number is about as high of a number that you’ll see out of all centers for the iFG% ) opponents PPG: 16.3 opponents PER: 16.5 ************************* I think we all want Smoove and Horford to be star players. But sometimes our fandom clouds what is really reality. If Shaq was that effective in limited minutes in Cleveland, if he even produced 80% of those numbers next year, it would be an upgrade to what we could put out on the floor. Horford has a great mid-range jumper, but virtually no post up game ( especially against guys bigger than him ). Everytime he'd force the issue and tried to back people down, it was almost like watching Dikembe Mutumbo back in the day trying to do it. But his long mid-range jumper ( 16 - 23 ft ) was one of the best in the NBA last year for a player playing more than 30 minutes a game. But as a legit low post threat, what you said was right on the money. If given 100 times to score, Horford MIGHT score 30 - 35 times on Shaq. Flip it around, and Shaq may score 65 - 75 times out of 100. And that's the difference. I believe that overall that Horford is the better player. But he may not be the better center . . even at Shaq's old age.

Chaze . . . it's a possibility. But usually the great guards in this league make it known that they're great right off the bat. Teague will get his shot this year though. I'm looking forward to see how he plays in the Vegas Summer League starting next Monday vs Memphis.

It's only been 2 games. But here are Garrett Siler's Orland Summer League totals with New Jersey: MIN: 20 PTS: 3 ( 1 - 2 FG ) REBS: 2 BLKS: 1 FOULS: 5 Maybe he'll get a little more burn in the next few games. But he may not be ready for the NBA if he can't make more of an impact ( especially as a rebounder )

I agree. Jamal's ultimate value may be that his 10+ million simply falls off the books. No way would I do anything trade wise with Jamal this summer, unless it nets us a star player. And I also wouldn't do anything, until we got a real good look at Jordan Crawford. If his scoring ability translates to the NBA level, the need to trade Jamal for other "non-stars" may become less of a necessity. I honestly don't know which is the worst contract right now . . . Hedo's or Okafor's?

Exactly. Toronto would make that trade, and celebrate because they just got rid of a vastly overrated player, for a scoring upgrade in Crawford, who is also an expiring contract. Marvin doesn't play SF THAT BAD to justify a trade like this. JJ's ability to play the 3 makes a move like this completely unnecessary.

HAHA. . . I missed this earlier. Yeah man . . all of those "ballin" females in ATL might be lining up to see Shaq at Philips. They'll be trying to purchase season tix right behind the bench.

LOL . . which means that the blog writers are simply reading the AJC and Hawksquawk message boards, and trying to scoop a story that isn't even there. WE are the "unnamed sources" that all of these writers use.

At the very least, the PF & C minute rotation better look like this: PF: Smith ( 34 ) - Horford ( 14 ) C: Horford ( 20 ) - Shaq ( 20 ) - Zaza ( 8 ) There's no reason in the world why Horford's minutes couldn't be split up like that. You can even reduce Horford's or Shaq's minutes at center by about 2 - 4 minutes, and give them to Zaza if you want. Horford can start the 1st and 3rd quarters at center . . . and finish the 2nd quarter and the game at center in the 4th quarter

Al would START at Center . . . but there's no way to justify strictly playing him at center, if you have a guy as big as Shaq to team with him. You'd have to play Al alongside Shaq, just to see what kind of dimension that could give us as a team. I have no problem with Horford starting the game . . even finishing the game. But if we get Shaq, he better get some minutes at PF alongside Shaq.

He's in the doghouse for a reason. Coaches just don't put players in "doghouses" for no reason. Why pay Barbosa another 14 million, if you already have a team loaded with gunning guards ( JJ, Jamal, Jordan ( potentially ). If we didn't have Jamal here, then maybe I'd consider it. But with Jamal here, Barbosa simply becomes redundant.

This is your potential team if we added Shaq PG - Teague, Bibby G - Johnson, Jamal C, Jordan C F - Marvin, Evans PF - Smoove C - Horford, Shaq, Zaza The weak spot is potentially at PG ( edit: I had originally listed PF by mistake ), especially if Teague isn't ready to give us decent minutes. But even with that, Jamal can play the 1 at times. That's a pretty solid team, if you add Shaq to the mix, and he can give us the production that he gave Cleveland last year ( without getting hurt ). And I'm sure that Drew would probably do what both Mike D'Antoni and Terry Porter did in Phoenix and Mike Brown did in Cleveland. And that is limit Shaq's minutes every night. . even give him a day off in a back to back situation ( unless it was a "big" game ) That's 11 players right there. To be honest, I wouldn't care who we filled out the roster with. And JJ can still play SG and SF . . and Horford can play C and PF. You'd have a 10 man rotation that could be set, with the rookie Jordan Crawford getting spot minutes in garbage time. With those 11 players, I could care less who the 12th and 13th guy was.

Of course. Paul is a superstar PG that instantly makes your team better. Smoove is still a good PF that deserved to make the All-Star team last year. And while he's not as tough as Horford, Smoove and Paul would be a hell of a combination to team together. If we're talking about getting a player like Chris Paul, both Horford and Smoove are in play. The other reason why Smoove is mentioned more, is because Smoove already has a big money contract ( 11.6 mill next season ) to make a trade like that happen. Horford won't make his big money until next season. He'll only make 5.4 million next year.

Aldridge is an idiot then. Al may still be our starting center, but the acquisition of a center the size of Shaq would allow Al to play PFmore, especially at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th quarters . . while JJ, and Smoove get rest. You star Al, but pull him out of the game around the 5 minute mark of the 1st quarter. Insert Shaq ( or Zaza ), and let them finish the quarter ). Imagine this for our start of the 2nd quarter rotation if we were to acquire Shaq: ( assuming that Teague is the starter at PG ) PG - Bibby G - Jamal Crawford F - Mo Evans F - Horford C - Shaq Teams couldn't simply focus on slowing down Jamal anymore. They'd have to account for Horford and Shaq. And while that group may play slower, that's a group with veteran players in 4 positions, with Horford possibly being able to show off a little at PF. And Bibby would still be a good spot up 3 point shooter. If we're going to play the Bibby - Crawford backcourt together, I'd rather play them against the other team's 2nd unit. or they can go with this lineup PG - Jamal Crawford G - Jordan Crawford F - Evans F - Zaza C - Shaq It's a slow, but rugged frontline, surrounded by shooters at the 1, 2, and 3 spot. Shaq is still a good enough offensive threat to be a viable short stretch scorer with a 2nd unit like that, while still allowing Jamal to do his thing. Even the 2nd lineup off the bench, would be better than what we were trying to throw at people last year. PG - Teague G - Crawford F - Evans F - Joe Smith C - Zaza That lineup was pretty much Crawford or bust.

2 bangers doesn't work anymore? The World Champs would disagree with you. They have Gasol and Bynum. Horford runs the floor very well for a man his size. While we will lose speed in the loss of a Josh Smith, we gain a lot more toughness for those playoff battles. if you noticed, the Lakers and Celtics each broke the 100 point barrier ONE TIME in the NBA Finals. Those games were all about defense, and who could execute under all of that defensive pressure. I'm only for trading Smoove for a legit star. That's been my stance all along. Chris Paul is a legit star . . . a superstar when healthy. The Hawks would do that trade in a second, if they acquired Shaq for 2 years as well. But the stance from the Hornets is that they will not trade Paul. At least they won't trade him now. They may wait for Carmelo Anthony going into next year.

And for the record . . if we do acquire Shaq, it's not like we can count on him playing more than 20 - 25 minutes a night, so there's still a need to keep Josh Smith in the mix here. If you can acquire a Chris Paul, then yeah, you HAVE to make that trade. But if you can't, then keep Smoove around. Definitely don't trade him in a deal for Okafor, if Paul isn't in that deal as well.

Shaq's PER 36 NUMBERS 18.5 ppg 10.3 rebs 1.8 blks 2.3 asst 57%FG 50% FT Shaq's defensive stats PER 48 MINUTES . . scroll to the "Production by Position" section Opponent eFG% . . . 46.8% Opponent iFG% . . . 47% ( iFG . . . inside FG% . . . Horford's opponent iFG% at center was 60% . . which is the main complaint about his defense ) Opponent ppg . . . 15.5 Opponent PER . . . 14.2 Those defensive stats would put Shaq in the top 5 defensive centers in the game, behind Howard . . and on par with what Bogut and Mehmet Okur did last year. Playing FAST is not the key to Atlanta winning anything. Playing DEFENSE is.

Right. Re-signing JJ is a double that puts us in scoring position. I guess for the last 2 years, JJ has hit a double, but got picked off of 2nd base by a good move by the pitcher.

That's the point KB. To maximize the potential of this team NOW. And while I loved Smitty, Joe Johnson was a better player than he was, both on offense and defense. You talk about how this team is going to be put into a financial burden down the road, like there's no possibility that JJ can't be traded near the end of his contract. There has been too many instances in this league in which a large contract has been traded before his deal was up. But seriously . . what is the plan if we don't bring JJ back? Who is coming to ATL to be the star player that we need? Do you really think the Hawks are a better team without JJ? Forget the money. JJ won't be making 20 mill until that 4th year. Are the Hawks better off without Joe Johnson? The teams we'd be signing and trading with, would probably be Chicago, Dallas, or New York. Do people covet Luou Deng, Caron Butler, and Chris Duhon to the point that they'd rather see JJ traded for them? Because those are the types of players we'd be talking about getting in a sign and trade. We would still have to make moves to upgrade the team, regardless if JJ were here or not. We still may have to trade Horford or Smoove for a star or better player, to see this team get to the next level. JJ and this group has improved every year ( and people can say that without giving Woody partial credit ). The last hurdle they need to overcome before they become serious contenders, is winning more than 50% of their road games. We are as close as we have been to getting to that next level since the mid 90s. And people are willing to throw that all away, simply because they believe JJ is overpaid, and will be financially hurting the team in years 4 through 6 of his deal?

That's the truth. The Hawks for the most part are a soft basketball team. And when Horford and Smoove go up against big frontlines, that's when you'll see a lot of their flaws come out. If they are to stay together, they have to play a lot tougher. And I know people will say that others have to play tougher, and that's true. But it's gonna be Smoove and Al in the trenches the vast majority of the time. So the toughness issue is really more about them than anyone else.

Sarver's "cheapness" has directly led to the Suns not reaching the NBA Finals. He'd rather lock up role players for mid-sized deals ( Diaw, Barbosa, now Hakim Warrick ), than to pay the stars that got them to this point. If Steve Nash was the engine that ran the Phoenix attack, Shawn Marion was the turbocharger that made it run even faster. But Shawn got scapegoated by the fans because he wasn't a "go-to type scorer". So they trade him for Shaq, in an experiment that failed miserably. The Suns lost Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion, and now Amare Stoudamire . . the 3 guys that got the ball back rolling in Phoenix in 2003-04 ( before Nash come on the scene and made them much better ). But Barbosa is still there? You pay your stars . . . not your fringe players. You DO NOT win in this league without star players. The Suns think that the loss of Amare won't affect them much, because they have a very good bench. But they'll quickly find out just how important Amare was, when guys like Steve Nash start getting doubled all over the place, forcing those shooters to beat them. With Amare there, you couldn't do that, because Amare would kill you too. That team just lost their leading scorer and rebounder, and replaced him with Hakim Warrick? What? Is Robin Lopez going to all of a sudden become a 10 rebound a night guy? Grant Hill was the 2nd leading rebounder on the Suns. Old man Grant Hill.

The most important thing that Teague can do right off the bat, is prove that he can DEFEND other PGs. If he can at the very least do that, it'll go a long way in solidifying his worth to the Hawks. But if he turns out to be weak defensively ( espeically on the ball ), then we'll definitely need to get another PG. I didn't like the kid's defensive awareness last year. Didn't like it AT ALL. That's one area that he MUST improve on. Even when he was matched up against Jennings a few times in the playoffs, Jennings made him look kind of silly. Teague didn't slow him down at all. So to me, that's what I'm most concerned about when it comes to Teague. His defense. Offensively, I'm already expecting only modest numbers out of him ( 8 ppg . . . 4 assists . . . 40 - 42% FG ), so he dang well better be solid defensively.

"Ratings gamesmanship" That's a great term to describe what went on. That's why I trust none of their "unnamed sources". I fully believe all they do is go to a team's message board or blog, and try to gauge whatever they read on there, and try to formulate an opinion. The AJC Blogs are much more negative and hateful toward Joe Johnson, than anything you see here. Even the guys that may not like JJ, at the very least respect his game and what he brings to the table . . . even if they don't believe he's a star player. And I agree . . . those writers know NOTHING about the Hawks. Hell, up until the 2008 season, ESPN listed Josh as our SF and Marvin as our PF. Those writers didn't get the Rudy Gay situation in Memphis right either . . . because they know nothing about Memphis as well. I didn't think for one minute that the Griz would let one of their most popular and exciting players get away from them. Not when they have the cap space and an expiring contract like Zach that they can let fall off the books. With the college team Memphis Tigers falling back to earth, they have a chance to become equal to them basketball-wise in Memphis again. Memphis is a college basketball town. But if the Griz can improve on what they did last year,the people will come out and support them more. Memphis and Atlanta had to protect their assets by somewhat overpaying for them. When you're a franchise that isn't a free agent destination for most good players, you really can't blame either franchise for doing what they did.