TheNorthCydeRises

I agree with this. Signing JJ to a major money deal does not put us on the hook for 6 years, unless he suffers an almost catastrophic injury or his game completely falls off the map. In 2 - 3 years, if we're not at least contending for an East title, those championship level teams will come knocking on our door, trying to acquire JJ ( like what the Lakers did for Pau Gasol ). When that happens, we'll get expiring contracts and extra draft picks, and we'll be able to re-make the team.

Buzz . . the only thing I can tell you man, is to use your ignore feature to completely block my posts. LOL . . cause you know I'm not going to quit talking about it, as long as the fan apathy exist in Atlanta. I stayed on topic . . and interjected what I thought was also relevant to the argument.

You give JJ the max with this current squad, the Hawks payroll is under 70 million. Depending on what the Luxury Tax number is, the Hawks will either be right at the luxury tax line, or a little over it. But to even achieve that, you either have to make a decision to trade Chill for somebody, or completely renounce him and use the MLE money to fill out the rest of the roster. That's why I rant like I do sometimes. I just think it's unrealistic for fans to think that this ownership would make a major move like that, and put forth a major financial commitment, if they wouldn't be for sure that the fans would come out on a nightly basis to watch that team. Maybe a player like Chris Paul is enough to move the needle in ATL. But he has to move the needle when teams like Indiana, LA Clippers, Memphis, and Minnesota come to town. Not just for Boston, the Lakers, or potentially Miami. But your scenario can still happen. I just think we'll have a lot less pieces left on the team to work with, than what you listed.

Hawks payroll ( 2010 - 11 ) Johnson: 16.67 mill ( estimated ) Paul: 14.94 mill Okafor: 11.54 mill Marvin: 6.71 mill Bibby: 5.56 mill Horford: 5,44 mill McGee: 5.0 mill ( estimated ) Zaza: 4.25 Mo Evans: 2.5 mill Teague: 1.48 mill Jor. Crawford: .85 mill cap hold? ( I know it's somewhere between 800K and 900K ) 2 vet minimum contracts to fill out roster: 2.2 mill total? ESTIMATED PAYROLL FOR NEXT SEASON: 77.24 MILLION And this number will potentially SKYROCKET when Horford's deal comes around, increasing his 2011 - 12 salary by about 6 - 7 million, along with JJ, Paul, and Okafor's deals increasing by about 4 - 6 million total. That puts us in the luxury tax next year, and definitely going into 2011. To get under the tax, you would have to NOT do the McGee deal . . find a way to deal Mo Evans for basically nothing . . and possibly find a taker for Bibby this summer. Then deal Zaza the following year. So the bench would have to be filled with minimum salaried guys. It's a great idea you came up with, but you always have to try to run the numbers to see if it would work. For the ASG to do this, it would take the ULTIMATE COMMITMENT from the fans to go out and support this team at ALL TIMES. I know people get tired of me of saying that. But if fans actually want ownership to make a commitment like this, ATL MUST UNCONDITIONALLY support a squad like this.

You sure about that? Melo scored more last year, but it wasn't because of Billups. Billups shot terrible last year and his assists went down under 6 per game last year. And Melo's shooting percentage the last 2 years is below what it was when Iverson and especially Andre Miller were running the team. Billups doesn't make individual players better. He brings stability to a team by playing solid defense and by making plays on offense. His name is "Mr. Big Shot" . . . . . not "Mr. Big Pass"

Nope. That's why I used the word "IF". Go back and re-read what I typed. I have very little problem with Jamal Crawford and what he did for us last season. He definitely played what he was worth last year. That still doesn't change the fact that when it comes to the balance sheet, it's Crawford's contract ( more importantly Bibby's and Chill's contract ) that has us in a bind, because we never had to trade for him or re-sign Bibby, and add this money to the books. And with the way Marvin played last year, you have to add him to that list as well. Sund had to have known what the potential market for JJ would look like, even last summer. With all of the expiring contracts we had last year, along with the potential expirings we'd have this year, Sund could've put us in a real good position financially to make a run at one of these free agents, if that was the goal of the Hawks. If not, re-signing JJ at whatever price wouldn't have been a problem. But he chose to keep the entire team intact ( which wasn't a bad decision by any means ), and that team posted the 4th best record in Atlanta Hawk history. We flopped in the 2nd round of the playoffs, but this team for the most part, did some good things. BUT NOW . . . As James Brown once said in a song . . . it's time to "pay the cost to be the boss". Everybody around JJ got locked up with a new deal, so now it's time to lock him up. Sund had to have known how much it would cost to retain JJ. So if the intention was to lock him into a big money deal, the proper steps LAST SUMMER should've been made. But if the Crawford trade was meant to be the deal that replaced JJ in ATl, then we've already made our free agent move, and they'll let JJ walk for nothing ( but put up the illusion that they tried their best to retain him ). The way other teams have high payrolls, is by them either trading for star players, or retaining their own star players by giving them big contracts.

I can't disagree with this. This is a good explanation as to why Sund threw that contract out there. But by him doing that, he had to have known that JJ wouldn't dare sign a deal like that. That's why I like that you called it a "PR stunt". It turned out to be a PR stunt that instantly turned JJ into the villian, because some of the fans were like . "JJ . . how DARE YOU turn down 15 million a year. Who do you think you are?" When the Crawford trade went down, I always thought ( and still do to a certain extent ) that Jamal was the replacement for JJ. He was the "In case of a JJ emergency, break open glass" player for us. And with Crawford performing like he did during the season, he's arguably a more popular player in ATL than Joe Johnson. With the way the playoffs went, with JJ playing horrible in the final 7 games, and the booing, and his comments that pizzed the fans off even more . . it's set up the perfect storm for JJ to get out of here. NOW . . the situation is almost as if the fans will be pizzed if JJ gets anywhere over 100 million. And a vocal percentage of fans don't want him back AT ALL. And now, you apparantely have all of these teams scrambling to put together deals to get JJ. So if the ASG was looking for an "out" to let JJ go, they definitely have it now.

I've posted a lot of things in my "5 year career" on Hawksquawk. But this post has to be one of my 10 best of all time.

Jamal Crawford looks like Kobe on defense, when you compare Crawford's defense to Martin's.

A late 2nd round pick in the NBA might as well be a 7th round pick in the NFL. In that position, you'll be lucky to find a guy that makes your team, let alone be able to contribute down the road ( especially if he's a wing ). You guys know better than this.

I told everybody last summer that the one guy that I thought JJ could possibly be traded for at the trade deadline . . . was Kevin Martin. From a scorer standpoint, he was about the only guy who was close to being on JJ's level, that we could trade for. Would I do the deal? Well . . . considering that Martin didn't lead Sacramento ANYWHERE, I'd rather overpay JJ than to trade for Kevin. He looks to be a brittle as T-Mac the past few years. And there's still the issue of JJ WANTING to go to Houston. We do not control anything in a sign and trade. It's all about where JJ wants to go.

LOL . . how is JJ going to Chicago "a less than ideal fit?" They have Derrick Rose, a guard that loves to drive the basketball and score, but has also shown the ability to kick out to shooters. He and Rose would be a DEVASTATING backcourt. They're big . . . they both can pass . . Rose is the driver while JJ is the shooter . . and both can play decent defense. And people never state the obvious. JJ relied on ISO ball . . BECAUSE HE DIDN'T HAVE A GOOD PG FEEDING HIM THE BALL. In fact, you can say that about the entire team. I guess those same idiots think that because Carmelo goes ISO a lot, that he couldn't play with a pass-first PG? Melo is a shooter. You pair him with a very good PG, and his production might actually GO UP, because he'll have to work a little less hard to get quality shots. The same goes for JJ. If we ever got a hold of a PG that could be both a scoring and a passing threat, guys like JJ, Horford, and Smoove would become much better offensive players. And LOL @ the Nets and Knicks being an "ideal fit" before the Hawks. What's the logic in that? These writers/bloggers forget the history of the league. They either forget it, or have no clue about it.

Diesel tried to say the same thing back in early March, and I flat out proved this to be a gross misconception. I even broke it down game by game. I think it was the 10 games after the All-Star break. The truth was that the only person JJ tossed more assists to than Crawford, was Josh Smith.

I'm assuming that Horford makes an improvement. Shoot, he'll HAVE to. He'll have to become a scorer at least as efficient as David Lee. And that's the OTHER problem. Can Horford ever reach his full potential playing center? LOL . . and God knows I've been wishing for Smoove to become Rain Man ( even Spring Shower Man ) for the longest time. Those players have no choice but to elevate their games. If they don't, we're dead in the water, as far as playoffs go.

This probably makes the most sense. Mo would start, but be pulled around the 6 min mark of the 1st quarter. The problem, is that you're really asking Horford, Smoove, Marvin and possibly Teague to provide enough early offense to keep us afloat until Jamal comes in. Teague Evans Marvin Smoove Horford Boy . . . I tell you what. Marvin is going to have to find his offensive game next year. There are no guarantees whatsoever that Teague will be ready to assume the type of role that people want, and that Horford can elevate his game to that of an 18 - 20 ppg scorer. And Smoove doesn't shoot well enough ( on his jumper, nor from the FT line ), to say that he can become a 20 ppg scorer with JJ gone. People are going to have to really step up next year, and prove their worth.

KNICKS ------------------ HAWKS Ellis ------------------------ Teague Johnson ------------------- Jamal Gallanari ------------------ Marvin Amare --------------------- Smoove Lee ------------------------- Horford Even if you replaed Ellis with Chris Duhon, that'll give them more of a playmaking PG, instead of a scorer like Ellis.

You mean the team that beat us 3 times last year? Teke . . don't be fooled man. When the Knicks add the 2 big free agents to come play for them, it'll make it that much easier for them to sign other quality guys to play with them. And they have a major trade chip in Eddy Curry and his expiring 11 million contract. Here are the moves the Knicks could make: - Sign JJ and Stoudamire to near max money ( Amare would get the Max, while JJ would get near the max ) - trade Eddy Curry for a player that another team desperately wants to get rid of because of cap/lack of chemistry reasons. ( Monta Ellis or Emeka Okafor anyone? ) - re-sign David Lee to a 1st big contract Max deal, because they still own his Bird rights. ( 5 yrs - 70 - 75 million ) Roster G - Ellis G - Johnson F - Gallanari F - Stoudemire F/C - Lee As of right now, if the Knicks ran that lineup at us, we'd have MAJOR PROBLEMS stopping them. That squad instantly becomes Phoenix East, with JJ having free reign to be a playmaker, or a spot up shooter, or a go-to guy. But Eddy Curry's expiring contract is the main piece that could bring them a quality 3rd player back to them. There are a number of bad contract, but decent players that Curry could potentially be traded for ( especially by the February trade deadline ) - Monta Ellis - Emeka Okafor - Richard Hamilton - Andris Biendrins ( only because he's big ) - Baron Davis - Jose Calderon - LOL . . . Marvin Williams ( if the Hawks wanted to get out from under that contract by next year ) And the Knicks are a team that doesn't worry about payroll, if the team is winning. They go to the games regardless, win or lose. That starting 5 right there is good enough to get the Knicks to the 50 win mark, and leap right over us.

And the main issue is still going to linger with this team. Size on the frontline . . . rebounding . . . and defense.

Defensively . . . I'd say yes. That's Smoove's main worth to this team. When he's not active defensively and/or on the boards, it definitely shows up in the won/loss column. But teams aren't game planning to stop Smoove on offense. Matter of fact, they kind of game plan to have the ball in his hands, especially if he's on the outside, by leaving him wide open. If JJ leaves, Horford is going to have to be the guy that really steps up offensively. Smoove's lack of a jumpshot isn't going to allow him to be a big time scorer on a nightly basis. His inconsistency at the FT line will play a part in that too. And even with Horford, he'll have to really step up with his back to the basket post offense, and be more efficient there. Hopefully we're not put into a situation in which Crawford has to carry this team on a nightly basis. That'll pretty much put him in the role he's been in his entire career. And it's a role in which he's shown that he can be brilliant on one night, and downright horrible the next. He's proven that he's too inconsistent to be the #1 scorer on a team. So it's going to have to be up to Horford . . or we're going to need this type of across the board point production from the Hawks: Jamal: 19 ppg Horford: 18 ppg Smith: 17 ppg Marvin: 13 ppg Teague: 10 ppg Jordan: 9 ppg Bibby: 6 ppg Zaza: 5 ppg Evans: 5 ppg That's 102 ppg between those 9 players, with the big jump in production coming from Horford and Teague, with major contributions still coming from the bench.

He's the shooter that I would wish Marvin could turn in to. At one point, Marvin did look like he could be a deadly mid-range shooter, and all was needed was him developing a 3 point shot. Now, we don't know if he can even make the mid-range jumper now. Anyway, this is Eddie Johnson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2CxDlHpZmU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UFsuCk2A5s

KB . . . the problem with losing JJ, is what it was when we had JJ. At the end of games, teams aren't going to run a motion offense to get a good shot for just anybody. They're going to give the ball to their best player(s), and give him a chance to make a play. Or they're going to run their best play, to get their scorer the shot. Now if we lose JJ, who becomes that end of the game scorer? It'll be Jamal Crawford . . . unless Smoove or Horford undergoes some drastic upgrade in their offensive game in which they can become a go-to scorer. But for now, Jamal Crawford will be "Mr ISO" at the end of games . . out of necessity. Then I guess people will hate Jamal then. When you look at what JJ did on the road last year, it was amazing how many big games he had, only for us to still lose the game because either Horford or Smoove didn't step up on the road. And I mean he had some MONSTER GAMES, and we still lost. JJ shot 50%+ FG in each of these games @ LA Lakers - 27 pts @ Chicago - 40 pts @ Cleveland - 35 pts @ San Antonio - 31 pts @ Oklahoma City - 37 pts @ Golden St - 31 pts @ Milwaukee - 27 pts Now you can definitely go the other way, and look at some of the games that JJ didn't show up in, and we still won. We were 14 - 8 in games in which JJ shot under 40% in ( 12 wins at home ) . . . and 9 - 9 in games in which he scored 16 points or less ( 6 wins at home ). So the team has shown that they can still win if JJ has a bad night. But only at home. And that's going to be the danger. We're already a team that struggles to win on the road as it is. Does it get worse or better with JJ out of the picture? When you lose JJ, you're going to have to hope that Jamal can make plays at the end of close games, or that Horford and Smoove can. This team had a tendency throughout the "JJ Era" to undergo complete collaspes when JJ even went out of a game for 4 minute stretches. He'd go out of a game, and we'd see the other team immediately go on a 6 - 0 . . or 10 - 2 run ( mainly due to our poor bench ), and Woody would have to put JJ right back in the game, without the luxury of giving him 6 or so consecutive game minutes of rest. The play of Teague is going to be important as well. With JJ gone, he's going to have to score, or be a very good playmaker for others. If Teague can step up like a lot of you think he can, then the loss of JJ will be lessened a great deal. Jamal can replace some of JJ's scoring, but JJ brings so many things to the table, that we may need multiple guys who can do one specific thing very well, in order to compensate for that. Along with Jordan Crawford, we may have to go out and get a defensive 2-guard to play defense when we need it. LOL . . we may have to bring back Mario West just to shore up the dang defense.

(( clapping ))

I agree 100%.

And if we trade JJ, Horford or Smoove better be legit All-Star players who can also be go-to guys on offense.

The matchup was horrific. We all knew this going into that series. We had to play stellar defense in order to beat Orlando, and we didn't come close to doing that. The offense was horrible as well. That speaks to a bigger problem than just one player, or a coach. The team just didn't match up with Orlando at all. They're the only team in the NBA that did that to us on a consistent basis the past 2 years. So it had to be because of the matchup issues that they present. As for what JJ is worth, he's definitely worth 100 over 6 years. Like I said, the best free agent we've signed in the past 5 years, was Speedy Claxton. People act like all of these free agents would beat down our door if we had the cap space. Honestly ATL_Baller . . . what we have to do is to try to keep JJ around, and either trade one of the young kids in the future, or trade JJ in the future for a disgruntled star player somewhere else, and see if he can get it done for us.