TheNorthCydeRises

And Nine . . . going back to your point of wanting a solid upgrade over Woody, I feel you on that. In fact, it's the very thing that most people say, whenever the trade Horford or Smoove topics come up. They don't want to trade Smoove or Al for just any ol body, just so that the team can be balanced out better. Most fans aren't in favor of trading Al or Josh for a cat like Biendrins or Dalembert, just to obtain a so-called defensive center. No . . . most fans would rather roll with Al and Josh, before trading one of them for those guys. If a trade happens, they want a Smoove + filler for a Gasol or Amare . . or a Horford for Brook Lopez type deal.. But when it comes to who will be the coach, some of those same folks are like . . . "I don't care who you hire. He could be an assistant coach, a broadcaster, a scout, an arena announcer like Ryan Cameron, a sideline reporter like Rashawn Ali, or even a bum out on Luckie St . . . just bring back ANYBODY BUT WOODY". It's wild how they can have such high standards on one end when it comes to trading players . . . but want the coach gone regardless, no matter who we brought in or what his qualifications were. That why I L-O-L all the time. The stuff is funny.

Yep . . . cause in Philly, Eddie Jordan was that "new voice" that they listened to, instead of Mo Cheeks. . . . and in Detroit, Michael Curry sure did a great job in replacing Flip Saunders. . . . and in Phoenix, Terry Porter was the right voice to replace D'Antoni . . . and D'Antoni was just what the Knicks needed, instead of Isaiah . . . and Vinny Del Negro was a great upgrade over Scott Skiles . . . and Rick Carlisle has brought up the Dallas Mavericks past what Avery Johnson ever did I fnd it funny that people truly believe that this team has progressed as far as they can with Woody, but a new coach ( because he's a different voice ) would get more out of the players. History says that a coaching change usually fails, if player/personnel changes aren't made as well. They had to do that in Phoenix ( get rid of Shaq ) and in Charlotte ( acquire Stephen Jackson ), in order to get those teams to the next level. Even in Milwaukee and the great success story they had, they were a below .500 team, until John Salmons arrived, and gave them another guy who could create his own shot and score. I wonder what the expectations around here would be, had Woody stayed, the core was intact, and we added a mid-level SF or PG that was capable of really helping us. Would expectations be NBA Finals or Fire Woody? Would it be win 57+ games? I truly hope the core our team comes back, because I would love to see if the new coach could get more out of those guys. If JJ doesn't come back, that'll at least buy the new coach some time. And the new coach will have my support. And if I see that the problem STILL has to do with players doing what they supposed to do, the new coach will be defended by me, just like I did with the former coach.

Exactly. Turkoglu shot 41% FG last season and flat out disappeared in A LOT of Raptor games. He scored less than 10 points in a whopping 29 games last year. He may be an upgrade over Marvin . . . but only a slight upgrade. Turkoglu as a shooter is about as inconsistent as they come.

Look at it this way. If a guy that big fell to #24, you'd have to raise some big time questions about the dude. The Hawks have to take the best available player at #24. We can't let some potential big time player go past us, simply because we have a "need" at center. If a guy like Paul George or Xavier Henry freefalls through the draft for whatever reason, we probably can't afford to pass a player of that caliber up, just to take a center. As for Alabi . . . nbadraft.net compares him to the infamous lottery pick that Sund made while in Seattle . . and Walter's boy . . . Saer Sene. No thanks.

This is a good answer. While a new "big name" coach may have generate initial interest, most fans are looking to see how this team will look going into next year. I think college fans get energized more by a big name coach, than pro fans do. Unless it's a huge name like a Phil Jackson, I don't necessarily see a coach having an effect on the box office. I do have to ask this though. If season ticket holders DON'T renew their tickets, isn't that an indictment on the young talent that we'd have here, despite a potential departure of Joe Johnson? This team will still have Josh Smith, Al Horford, Jamal Crawford, and the PG that everyone wants to see develop in Jeff Teague. So that's not enough for season ticket holders to renew?

LOL I know for a fact that these two guys weren't the coaches people had in mind, when they envisioned Woody being out of here. AT this point, as long as they don't choose Mark Jackson, it doesn't matter. But then again, the fans should be happy. They've always said that just about anybody could do a better coaching job. So be happy Hawks fans.

LOL . . . at least the NJSI was pretty much accurate to how those players shot the ball, and the categories I put them in. The NJSI was based off of the premise that a particular shooter in this league is pretty much going to take the same type of shot, regardless of where he is on the court. If he can create his own shot, he's more than likely going to create his own shot from just about anywhere on the floor. If he has to be set up for a shot, the same applies to that shooter. The NJSI simply put an index number to what that shooter did on his jumpshots. From that, I was able to group players on a .050 scale, according to how well or how bad they shot the basketball. It accurately depicted in the 2008 - 09 season how Smoove was a horrible jumpshooter ( even though he didn't qualify to have an NJSI really done on him that year ) . . . how JJ was just a somewhat inconsistent jumpshooter . . . how Marvin was becoming a highly inconsistent jumpshooter . . . and how Bibby was the best jumpshooter on the team. Overall, I believe my top 3 shooters in the league that year were Jameer Nelson, Anthony Morrow, and Steve Nash. The worst were guys like Iverson, Iguodala, and Stephen Jackson And if I did an NJSI on the Hawks this year, it will probably show that a guy like Marvin digressed from a somewhat inconsistent jumpshooter, to a horrible jumpshooter ( although with the low number of 3 point attempts he took, he may not have qualified to have an NJSI done on him ). My NJSI was accurate as hell, even if people said I couldn't do "this or that". I specifically gave parameters on what I was doing, so that every player in the league couldn't have an NJSI done on them. There wasn't a person out of place in that index. http://www.hawksquawk.net/community/index.php/topic/337506-the-northcyde-jumpshot-index/page__hl__NJSI__fromsearch__1 What Camp is trying to do, is interesting, but skewed heavily toward those guys who are either the sole star on a team, or are high scoring + high rebounding guys. And anytime something can be skewed to say that Bibby played up to his value more than Jamal Crawford did, you have to question that big time. By his metric . . . this is Kobe Salary: $23,034,375 . . . ( Salary % - 25.2 ) Points: 27 ppg . . . ( top 9 paid on team = 97.2 . . . 27.8% ) . . . and this skews it already, because 2 of those top 9 paid ( #6 Adam Morrison and #9 Luke Walton ), don't even play. LOL . . even the #7 guy in payroll ( Sasha Vujucic ) hardly plays. The guys who do play ( Shannon Brown and Jordan Farmar ) are the 10th and 11th highest paid on the team. You take away Luke and Adam, which represents 4.8 points . . and add Shannon and Jordan, which represents 15.3 pts, you'd have a total of ( 97.2 - 4.8 = 92.4 + 15.3 = 107.7 pts ). 107.7 pts . . . despite the Lakers only averaging 101.7 ppg as a team. So Kobe's true adjusted Points % would then be 27 / 107.7 = 25.1% Rebounds: 391 . . . ( Team total - 3635 . . . 10.8% ) Assists: 365 . . . ( Team total - 1730 . . . 21.1% ) 27.8 + 10.8 + 21.1 / 25.2 = 2.37 / 3 = 79% or 25.1 + 10.8 +21.1 / 25.2 = 2.26 / 3 = 75.3% So Kobe is worth either 79% of his investment ( if you count Walton and Morrison, but takeout Brown and Farmar in the point total ) . . . or 75% of his investment ( if you add Brown and Farmar, but take out Walton and Morrison . . which accurately represents who the top 9 players actually were, according to rotation. ) So if we go by this, Kobe should've made about 17.4 million . . instead of the 23 million he's getting. But Lebron is supposed to be making a shade under 22.9 million and Wade making 21.3 million? It's interesting what he did . . . just flawed as hell. Guys like Lebron and Wade, who were basically the only stars on their team, are definitely going to look like better returns on their investments, than guys like JJ and Kobe, who actually played with decent players across the board.

Nobody wanted Joe Smith nor Jason Collins. But the organization and even Woody tried to sell them off as being integral pieces. Then Woody woke up. Jason Collins couldn't even go at the beginning of the season, because he was out of shape. And Joe Smith shot just as bad on his midrange jumpers as Josh Smith did. Both guys lived up to exactly what they were . . . veteran minimum guys who no one wanted, because they were garbage players. The jury is out on Teague, but I didn't like what I saw from him most of the season. He only performed well during garbage time, much like how Salim Stoudamire used to do. Crawford was great for most of the year. He sold us out like JJ did during the playoffs, but he definitely made his money last year. Bibby and Marvin couldn't make shots throughout the year. This makes their contracts look real bad now. Zaza played inconsistently for most of the year as well. He didn't improve one bit last year. Take away Crawford from Sund's offseason, and the offseason would be a D+ at best. But ironically, it's the Crawford acquisition that is keeping us from being somewhat of a player in free agency, should we let JJ go and renounce his contract. But then again, Crawford was probably the replacement for JJ all along.

I guess Jon Barry turned us down, so they went to Jackson to see if he wanted an interview

Wins with JJ out of the lineup in the last 2 years: 108 - 84 vs New Jersey ( 7 - 60 record at the time ) 91 - 85 vs Detroit ( 23 - 53 record at the time ) 99 - 83 vs Cleveland ( last game of the season in which both teams rested the starters and played the scrubs ) 94 - 86 @ Minnesota ( 17 - 31 record at the tie ) 102 - 97 @ Charlotte ( 19 - 30 record at the time ) Losses with JJ out of the lineup in the last 2 years: 106 - 105 @ Toronto ( 33 - 33 record at the time ) 109 - 100 @ Charlotte ( 41 - 36 record at the time ) 90 - 88 @ Detroit ( 25 - 53 record at the time ) 98 - 90 @ Memphis ( last game of the season in which the ATL scrubs played the MEM starters ) LOL . . and you're going to use THESE GAMES to make a case for us playing without JJ? Come on mannnnnnn. Whenever JJ went out of the game on most nights, this team looked lost as hell. Teams would routinely go on 6 - 0 runs as soon as he went to the bench. Then Woody would panic, and put him right back into the game. That's why JJ played so many minutes throughout his Hawk career.

These threads get nuttier by the day. What Hawks team have you guys been watching over the past 5 years? Seriously? I think it's hilarious for people to say that JJ benefitted greatly from Woody's offense, yet, give Woody no credit whatsoever for the development of JJ. Woody definitely put JJ in position to be a 4-time All-Star, by giving him "superstar reaponsibilities." But you guys act like Woody had the talent at PG to delegate a lot of responsibility to other players. PGs in the JJ era:: - Royal Ivey - Tyronn Lue - Anthony Johnson - Salim Stoudamire ( at times ) - Speedy Claxton - Acie Law - Mike Bibby - Jeff Teague - Jamal Crawford You need a floor leader to run good offense in the NBA, whether it be a PG, SG or Point Forward. Which one of those guys were a better floor leader than JJ? I mean, dang . . . look at that list. Bibby was by far the best floor leader. But when he turned to garbage as the year went on, he couldn't even get it done. And JJ, for the most part, had to set up all of these guys ( except Crawford ) for open shots. And he even started doing it for Crawford as the season wore on. What team are you guys watching? Low post options for the Hawks in the JJ era: - Al Harrington - Josh Smith - Lorenzen Wright - Esteban Batista - Zaza Pachulia - Shelden Williams - Solomon Jones - Al Horford - Joe Smith Who is the best scorer down on the blocks? Harrington? And even with Harrington, he may have only had the best post-up moves If he had his preference, he's play from 18 feet on out. What team were you guys watching? And how can anybody criticize JJ for not passing more, even though he averaged over 5 assists as a Hawk, and led the Hawks in assists 4 of the 5 years? IF you want to say that he didn't pass quick enough out of double teams, that's a fair criticism. But when he did pass, did guys consistently knock down shots? Did Bibby? How about Marvin? Mo? Smoove? This year, only Horford and Crawford knocked down shots when JJ kicked the ball to them. Woody pretty much HAD to design the offense around JJ's array of skills, seeing that it was one of the strengths of the team, and because JJ was one of the few players on each of those Hawk teams, who could creat AD MAKE his own shot. Seriously? What team have you guys been watching, to believe that they'd be better off with LESS involvement of JJ in the offense?

It's hard to take anything he says serious anymore, with the way he flip-flops and make outlandish predictions. This is the same cat that has trashed JJ all year, whether he played poorly or great ( in a year in which JJ makes 3rd team ALL-NBA no less ). Now all of a sudden . . . - he realizes that the Lebron or Wade to ATL pipe dream is an impossibility - he realizes that Crawford may in fact not be able to replace JJ - he realizes that our young talent may not be as good as we hype them up to be . . . and says "Dang . . . we need to bring JJ back here in order to keep us at our current level." LOL . . pure comedy.

Because people want to believe that Teague will be the next Rondo, and not another 1st round bust for us.

I agree that boosting up the frontline should be the priority, if JJ is brought back. If he leaves, we're going to have to address multiple places on this team. Signing and trading for an Amare or Bosh means 2 things: 1) they want to come to Atlanta ( which they don't ) . . and 2) Josh Smith is getting traded for one of those players ( which weakens us defensively ) Not an easy solution for the Hawks winning anything. The Hawks are going to have to become a top 5 defensive team, before we do anything significant in the playoffs.

It's somewhat funny. More corny than funny though. And the racial references didn't make the song any more funny. But if anything, it simply shows how delusional the fan base really is. We hadn't won a damn thing for 9 straight years until last year's breakthrough vs Miami. But now the fans act like we're supposed to be this championship contender who should be able to play with anybody. The Milwaukee and especially the Orlando series was very frustrating. But with Orlando, it's obvious we didn't match up with them at all. That doesn't excuse Woody, nor the players for putting up more of an effort though. Hopefully, everything will turn out well for us with a new coach and a possible different mix of players. But be careful for what you wish for . . you just might regret it in the long run. It's like I said on the AJC board. This team hasn't nearly been successful enough for a long enough time, to see the sort of apathy that we see from the fan base. But it is what it is I guess.

Why do you doubt we will geta chance to see enough of him next year? If the guy can ball, he'll play his way onto the court. If he can't, he'll stay on the bench.

OK Buzz . . . just remember the players that we've had here under Woody. Diaw played much better once he left the Hawks Anthony Johnson didn't Shelden didn't Law didn't Salim didn't Solo didn't Flip Murray didn't Tyronn Lue didn't And when Mo Evans leaves, he'll be even more garbage than he is right now. But everyone wants to believe that Woody "ruined" these players, when in fact, they had some of their BEST YEARS under Woody, with the exception of Diaw.

That too. And say it ain't so about your boy Zebo. Say it ain't so man. He played so well last year.

He better seriously work on that jumpshot, and especially the floater then. Remember . . Teague didn't come into the NBA as this great playmaking PG. His strength was scoring the basketball. And he showed little ability during non-garbage time, that he could do that ( much like Acie Law ). Shooting the ball was supposed to be a strength of Teague. But it was one of his biggest weaknesses. The other was finishing at the rim. These were the two main things wrong with Acie. If Teague can draw fouls going to the hole, that will help him a lot. But this dude has to show that he can make mid-range jumpshots and finish going to the hole. Even the new coach isn't just going to give Teague major minutes, if he is ineffective. There are some serious major red flags about this dude that people just don't want to see ( because they don't want another 1st round draft pick to fail ). And I understand that. But it is what it is. Don't be surprised if the Hawks aren't scrambling to get another PG here to start over Bibby AND Teague.

LOL . . and you're about to lose all of your money. The Lakers may let Rondo dominate Fisher for one game. Then they'll do exactly what they did to Oklahoma City, and switch Kobe on him. Gasol doesn't have to play center vs the Celtics this go around. He can play PF for a good part of the game, which will help his effectiveness ( especially when Big Baby Davis is matched up with him . . because he'll simply shoot right over top of him ). But the difference is #24. If they double him, Kobe has shown a willingness to trust his teammates more than ever. If they single cover him, he'll eat Ray Allen or Tony Allen alive. Artest is the X-factor . . . not for his offense, but for his defense. He's going to draw Paul Pierce. And because Pierce won't be matched up against Matt Barnes or Jamario Moon, expect his numbers ( efficiency wise ) to go down. Because of the 2 - 3 - 2 Finals format, I expect Boston to win 2 home games. But this series is over by the time the Lakers come back home. Lakers in 6. And Kobe gets Ring #5.

Outside of Crawford, our bench was complete garbage for most of this year. Nate is a scorer and would immediately become the 2nd best player off of our bench, if we had him. That's how weak our bench was this year.

All I want from Varnado, is for him to come into the game, and alter a few shots and get some rebounds. A 2nd round pick usually isn't going to be an impact player, just a filler. As far as Chism goes, he's going to make a team, in the same sense that Chuck Hayes made the Houston squad, even though he wasn't drafted. That dude is just a smart player and a competitor. He may not get drafted, but he'll be on someone's NBA team come November.

Would you have liked to have Solomon Jones on this year's Hawk team . . or Joe Smith?

Best player available at #24. When you're drafting that low in the 1st round, it makes no sense to draft for need. Just take the best guy you can get. Jarvis Varnado or Wayne Chism at #53. Get an extra backup PF. First choice would be Varnado, for his shot blocking ability. Chism would be the pick for his all-around game.