TheNorthCydeRises

Nope. I say that people aren't objective when they give a coach no credit whatsoever for the success of a team, but everytime something goes wrong, he gets all the blame. That's what I call not being objective. It's one thing to not like Woody. It's another thing to act like he controls every positive and negative action on the court. But he's gone now. We'll see if you guys will treat the next coach the same way Woody was treated, when something goes wrong with the Hawks.

Man please. We all knew that Crawford was going to take minutes away from guys. But when those other guys got in the game, they would routinely play horrible as a group. They knew their role, they just didn't produce. Our bench was in the bottom third of the league for most of the year, until Evans and Zaza finally started to play a little more consistently, starting in March. LOL . . ya'll act like Woody has an X-Box controller, controlling the actions of these players. Guys like Mo and Zaza played every single night. And for the most part, they were sorry this year. I guess every bench player that sucks in the league, plays bad because the mean ol coach won't play them. Poor Acie is sorry, because 4 coaches refuse to give him time. Woody has no good effect on a game, but is the root of all that is wrong with the Hawks? Mo plays sorry because of Woody? The same guy who shot a BRICK LAY-UP in Game 1 of the Orlando series? I guess that was Woody's fault too I guess. He took away Mo's lay-up making ability.

And JJ is still going to be the #1 option with the Hawks, if he returns. It's not a player on the squad that is good enough to be the focal point of the offense. Even in a "share the ball offense", you want the ball in JJ's hands, seeing that he is one of the best passers on the squad as well.

People like to play stupid. They know what JJ brings to the table. It's just too bad he couldn't play like this during the Orlando series, to at least give us a fighting chance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMAa2Fzk_nE

That's a good graphic right there. All of those guys in that particular season, were arguably a top 20 - 30 player in the league. It's impressive that JJ makes that list 3 times, more than any other player, with the 2009 - 10 season being the best season yet. I vaguely remember Walter Davis in the mid-80s, seeing that the only time Phoenix was on TV, is if they were in the playoffs. He could definitely ball.

That's true. But the roster is out of balance at times when we play bigger teams. At the very least, this team needs an upgrade at the backup C position and at the backup PF position as well ( although that's not as critical, seeing that Horford can play the 4 ). Right now, this team has to improve itself in order to compete with Orlando. We have to acquire players that will enable us to match up with that team better. Sund has a BAD TRACK HISTORY with drafting horrible big men, so I don't trust his decision making in that area. But as good as this team was this year, we still could use a C, a PG, and a shooter/slasher. It's going to be very interesting to see who is available to us late in the 1st round.

Uptick . . yeah. But most of you have on blinders about the level of talent on this team. - Jamal Crawford was one of the most villified good players in the league. He was a player with talent, but not known as a player that makes a team better. - Mike Bibby fell off TREMENDOUSLY this year. - Marvin Williams surprisingly regressed this year, pretty much losing the ability to consistently make open jumpers. - Mo Evans had his worst shooting season of his career - Zaza played below standards up until about March, when he finally started to come around - Joe Smith was nowhere near the player that people thought he would be, and was in decline as a player. ( which is why NO ONE even considered adding him to their rosters last summer ) - Jason Collins has been a garbage player for a while, only serving as a big body who does nothing but get in the way of people. So when you look at this team, the talent that people thought we had 1 - 10, never really materialized. Our bench ( outside of Crawford ), was flat out horrible for about the first 50 games this season. The best coaching move that Woody made this year, was playing Joe Johnson more at SF. It was a trend that we started to see last year, when Flip started to emerge as a viable 6th man that could play the 1 or the 2. This year, he didn't even waste time playing JJ at SF, especially if Marvin was struggling. He and Crawford had to play at the same time at some point in the game, and as long as Bibby was at least a threat, this team was rolling when the Bibby - Crawford - JJ backcourt hit the floor. But when Bibby started to fall off, Woody made the decision to go more with Crawford as a scoring 1, with JJ at the 2, and increasing the playing time of Mo Evans when Marvin struggled. Now Woody took a lot of heat from the fans, because he was not playing Teague. But I'm sorry, Teague was underwhelming to me this season on defense and especially on offense. Woody went the easy route, and played Crawford more at the 1 as the season went along instead of trying to develop Teague. Without an extension and little job security, I pretty much can't blame him for doing that. But if people want to go ahead and give the players all the credit for the success of the team, that's on them. But when you see a team win at the level that we did in the regular season . . . - without solid PG play - without a consistently good low post scoring threat ( especially against bigger teams) - without consistent play from Marvin at SF ( especially from a shooting standpoint ) - without solid bench contributions on a nightly basis - without a good defensive big man . . then I have to give Woody some of the credit for playing lineups that overcame most of those deficiencies. That dude simply did what he had to do, to win games. I remember people being mad on this board . . MAD NOW . . because Woody significantly reduced the rotation in March of the 2007 - 08 season, in order to hold on to that #8 spot to make the playoffs. He would play 8 guys maximum, sometimes even 7. He would play Chill at 3 positions, just to keep a certain level of talent on the floor at all times. And people got MAD at that, partially because that meant that Acie wasn't playing ( a guy who was also underwhelming in his 2nd year ). People were calling Woody "selfish" for doing that. Only doing that to save his job. Well no ish. It saved his job, and put this team on the path to where it is today. So people can deny Woody's impact on this team if they want. But those who are objective about this team, know the real deal.

I bet most of those quotes came from Zaza, and people close to Zaza. He and Woody constantly butted heads, and did it as recently as last month. He's been in "Woody's Doghouse", has seen someone come in and take his starting spot, and has had words with Woody during games. He probably feels that whenever Smoove or Horford are playing bad, he should be in the game for one of them. The other guy is probably Mo Evans. He made it known earlier in the year, when Woody was real tight with the bench rotation, that the "bench" should get more playing time. Remember, there were a few games in whic Woody would cut the rotation down to 6 or 7 men in the 2nd half. And if he did play Mo as that 8th man, it wasn't more than 3 or 4 minutes. So I'll say the players doing the most "negative" talking, are Zaza and Mo. I think Teague wouldn't say much, seeing that he's a rookie. JJ, Bibby, and Smoove are the obvious "favorites". Marvin used to be a favorite. Crawford is probably a favorite. Horford is a favorite . . but I think he feels that he should get more touches on the offensive end . . A LOT MORE. So he may speak of "favortism" toward other players, when it comes to playcalling or number of shots.

Truth . . people wanted Woody gone . . period. Sure, an upgrade was wanted ( usually a named coach who had playoff success in the past ), but people just wante him gone, no matter who we brought in. They didn't care if it was Whoopi Goldberg in that movie in which she coached the Knicks. They wanted him OUT!! LOL . . people wanted Eddie Jordan here because of his "Princeton offense". Well . . you see where that scheme got him in Philly. ( But "ohhhh . . those players can't shoot." ) Exactly. Which is why you need both the coaching and the players for a scheme to function well. Bringing in a guy like Dan Majerle or Ty Corbin will more than likely not solve anything here. We needed a PG who could run the show, far worse than we needed a coaching change. But what's done is done. Woody will land on his feet somewhere, and we'll hire an assistant coach and ask him to elevate the level of play of the Hawks.

Riiiiiight . . . . I mean, because Woody had a Michael Jordan like player here, and his successor had one too. Instead of using a situation like a coach coming in, and taking over a team still on the rise with the best player in the NBA, how about this situation: Detroit fires Flip Saunders . . . hires Michael Curry. Saunders had so-called "gotten the Pistons as far as he could", so Dumars makes a change and elevates Michael Curry to head coach. Then Dumars has a brilliant idea to trade Billups for Allen Iverson. ( kind of like how this team is about to transition from JJ's squad, to Crawford's squad ) Iverson struggles, and Curry is to blame for the team's woes . . so they fire him after one year. So what's the more likely scenario: - an assistant coach taking control of the Hawks with a re-signed JJ, and improving us so much, that we make a NBA Finals appearance in his 1st year? - or an assistant coach that has to take over a team that has lost its best player, and has major problems in his 1st year trying to get the team to buy into his coaching philosophies? Will you, as a fan, be satisfied with the Hawks, if we were able to re-sign JJ, but only won 45 games and secured a #6 seed next year?

What? Did people expect Avery Johnson to come walking through that door? If that tweer is even remotely true, then that means that Joe Johnson will be given a low ball offer ( due to his performance in the playoffs ), and we'll let him walk away for nothing . . . which was probably their plan all along. The city, on the whole, love Jamal Crawford and his "tricky dribble", Hot Sauce crossovers, and his decision to shoot the ball as quick as possible. So it makes it easy for the team to transition from ISO-JOE to Inefficient-Craw. I can see it now, Dan Majerle as the coach, trying to play Phoenix-style basketball with Teague as his non-shooting version of Steve Nash. Crawford will start, and be Jason Richardson . . Marvin will be Diaw . . Smoove will be allowed to shoot 3s again, and be Channing Frye . . and Al will be the new "Amare". But hey . . this is what people wanted. Get Woody outta here, and bring in a YMCA coach if you have to. That's been the cry for 4 years now.

It doesn't matter anyway. Regardless of who the coach is, we still have the same personnel issues. And that coach will have the exact same problems that we have today, if those issues aren't addressed. Lose JJ though, and you have to wonder what big name coach would take this job, if our 3rd team All-NBA guy isn't returning?

Well you actually agree with me then. Because you don't give sole credit to the players for winning games. But a lot of these fans DO give sole credit to these players winning games. So if they get sole credit for winning the games, they get sole credit for the losses. In the Orlando series, we were simply outmatched, and have been outmatched for about 2 years now vs that team. You know that and I know that. The Milwaukee series, blame for those 3 losses can be put on coaches and players, seeing that Horford didn't play well at all in Milwaukee. Nor did Crawford, Bibby, or Marvin. Blame and credit goes all around. That's all I've said over the years. LOL @ this team winning strictly on talent . . with a "dying" PG and a SF that shows up every blue moon.

Sorry dude. Can't have the growing of the team, without the growing of the coach. I mean . . if ya'll want to play this game. OK. Then that means that every collapse that this team experienced throughout the season, was because of the PLAYERS. Every playoff disappointment we had here, was because of the PLAYERS. No way you can give the players all of the credit when we win, but place all of the blame on the coach when we lose. We WIN as a team. We LOSE as a team. If Woody had nothing to do with the wins, then he had nothing to do with the losses either. Can't have it both ways folks.

I don't know if he's happy he's gone, or if he's like . . . "OK . . well we had to do something". I wonder which one he'd rather have gone . . . Woody or JJ?

Top picks that have been villifyed for YEARS by the fan base. - Josh Childress - Marvin Williams - Shelden Williams - Acie Law Only Acie was a somewhat consensus. And he's been with 4 teams in 3 years ( 3 teams this year alone ), and will be a free agent this summer. Do you want Acie back here?

I think it's time for another Woody animated cartoon. I'll work on that tomorrow.

Exactly. I think all of that ISO-JOE was out of the fact that we never had a legit playmaking PG here. So Woody gave "superstar" responsibilities to the one player who could create his own shot and create for others.

Wow . . 57 users reading this topic? I've never seen more than 15 people read a topic at the same time.

******13****** *************26************* ***************30*************** ******************37******************* **********************45******************** **************************53************************** The legacy of Woody.

Woody, the one thing that this fan base CANNOT take away from you, is that it was YOU who had a hand in making this franchise relevant again. You maybe couldn't take us to championship level, but then again, no coach in Atlanta Hawk history hasn't been able to do it either. So thanks for being a part of the organization for the last 6 years. When NO ONE wanted this coaching job, you took it. And kept a level head throughout all of the ownership BS. Good luck wherever you go Woody. And thanks. This song is dedicated to you.

And once again . . fans were starting to boo Joe Johnson as early as his 3rd missed shot in Game 3 . . . well before he made the stupid comment. People act like JJ turned on the fans. Naw . . the fans turned on him, and he responded in frustration. JJ was probably like . . . "Damn . . I know I'm 0 for 4, but these people are starting to boo me already? ME? Well . . . (( bleep )) those booing fans. I could care less if they come or not, if they're gonna boo. It like I keep tellin Smoove. It's all about US. They don't care about us, the way they cheer for Kobe and the Knicks in OUR BUILDING. That's why I tell him to not listen to the boos when he shoots that jumper. Play for US . not THEM." "I'm gonna jack up another jumper and see if they boo if I miss" ( bong ) (( BOOOOO )) "Well I be damn. These mo-fos gonna boo me all game huh? OK. i got a trick for em after the game."

They ran Jason Terry out of town too. JT was probably done worse out of all of them. We all know that he was a smallish combo guard, but he ran the point as well as he could. But people and the infamous AJC sportswriters villified that dude to the fullest. And you're right. As soon as they run them out of town, and we go back to being a sub .500 team, those same fans will be nowhere to be found. Oh . . they'll show up when Kobe and Lebron and Wade comes back into town. But they won't show up for regular Hawk games. This organization and some of the fans are always chasing after ghosts ( i.e. - the superstar player ), instead of stringing together some competitive seasons to bolster the status of the Hawks. We're STILL not an attractive free agent destination. Look at all of those big men, including Big Z late in the season, that bypassed the Hawks. Preach it Diesel.

Because Charlotte had the #1 defense in the NBA. And because Dwight Howard stayed in foul trouble the entire series. A great defense can always keep you in a game, no matter what sport you're talking about. Charlotte also had 3 big legit centers that they could throw up against Dwight Howard. It was that, plus Charlotte relentlessly attacking the rim, that kept Dwight Howard in foul trouble all throughout that series. The problem though, was that Orlando was the #3 defense in the league, and found it very difficult to score on the Magic, even when they were stopping the Magic on the other end. The Hawks have more talent than the Bobcats. But the Bobcats are MUCH TOUGHER PHYSICALLY than we are. That's the main reason why they gave them a better series than we did.

I agree. Smoove is the face of the franchise and the most popular player on the team. You at least have to keep the Horford - Smith duo together for at least one more year, to see if they will improve without Woody, or without JJ, or without both. Once next year comes around though, all bets are off. If we're still having the same issues playing against bigger frontlines, a decision has to be made between the two. The numbers that those 2 have put up against the bigger frontlines, do not lie. Both have struggled mightily against the bigger teams this year.