TheNorthCydeRises

Exactly.

Crawford is definitely used for instant offense. This isn't even a debate. He takes the vast majority of the shots when paired with the 2nd unit, not trying to set them up for points. When he's in the game with JJ and Bibby, he hardly handles the ball, unless he's out on the break or if he's looking for his shot. On a PER 36 minute basis . . . this is the lowest assist total ( 3.5 assists/per 36 ) Crawford has averaged in his career . . but the most points ( 20.9 ppg/per 36 ). But he's not being used in an "instant offense" role? ( lol . . more numbers manipulation I guess ). Even if you look at his real time stats, this is STILL the 3rd lowest assist output of his career ( 3 assists ) . . . but the 3rd most points he's scored in a season in his career ( 18 ppg ). Vinnie Johnson? PER 36 minutes he aveaged 4.8 assists over his career . . . Crawford? 4.6 assists for his career. Real time stats? Vinnie Johnson 3.3 assists in 24.7 minutes . . Crawford 4 assists in 32.4 minutes. Woody told Crawford that he wanted him to lead the league in scoring off the bench. And to Crawford's credit, that's exactly what he did. Mr. "Instant Offense" Crawford. They're twins in their style of play . . the shots they take . . and in the roles both teams placed them in. Once again, this is not a debate. Crawford shoots more FTs, because he has the uncanny ability to draw a foul off of his jumpshot. Terry, while he doesn't draw fouls off of his jumper, shot a higher percentage from the field. Other than that, their roles are IDENTICAL. LOL @ high starter vs minimal starter minutes. In the year that I cited for Terry ( 2008 - 09 ). . he averaged 33.7 minutes a game, starting 11 games. Crawford this year has averaged 31.1 minutes a game, starting zero games. Crawford playing 31 minutes a game is about the league average for a starter. That's not "miminal starter minutes". Minimal starter minutes is more like the 27 per game that Bibby averages. The Pierce comparison was for Benhillboy . . who said that Crawford was doing something that hadn't been done since Ricky Pierce did it. No . . what Crawford is doing is almost IDENTICAL to what Jason Terry did last year . . . which is damn good. Eddie House isn't good enough to be a super 6th man like Jamal or Jason Terry either, which is why I didn't include him in the discussion. Eddie might as well be JJ Redick. JJ's point production hasn't deviated one iota since the arrival of Crawford. Even though he's struggled recently, he's shot better overall than he has in 3 years. We have the #2 offense in the league ( according to offensive rating ). Defensively, we're 15th. That's why we're not a 60 win team. That, and because the team simply isn't good enough yet. The entire team coasts defensively. That's why we're ranked 15th, instead of a top 10 defense. And in 2007, JJ was a top 3 - 5 shooting guard in the league. And he's still at that level, with only Kobe, Wade, and arguably Brandon Roy and Manu Ginobli being better than him. Hawks starters, and their rank across the league: 2005 - 06: 27th . . http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/06/6/diffeff/1-1 2006 - 07: 26th . . http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/07/6/diffeff/1-1 2007 - 08: 12th . . http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/08/6/diffeff/1-1 2008 - 09: 14th . . http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/09/6/diffeff/1-1 2009 - 10: 5th . . http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/10/6/diffeff/1-1 But of course, the increase in the starters ranking has everything to do with Smoove and Horford, and nothing to do with JJ . . . because he didn't "grow as a player". If not "growing as a player" means that JJ didn't transform from All-Star to Superstar, then you're correct. In actuality though, JJ is having his best shooting year as a Hawk since 2006 - 07. And if Bibby and Marvin wouldn't have fallen off so much, his assists would easily be over 5 . . maybe 6 per game. Because JJ is a pretty big dude ( 6 - 8 . . 240 ), he'll transition from SG to SF as he gets older. You may see him rely more on the post up game too, if we can get a guard in here to effectively run the show. If it turns out to be Teague, that'll be great. Teague could have control, while setting up JJ for open jumpers and post ups vs smaller defenders. At worse, a 33 year old JJ will be Ray Allen . . a guy that isn't the #1 option anymore, but still enough of an offensive threat to be considered a borderline star player because of his ability to knock down open jumpers. Because JJ's game is based on actual skill, and not athleticism, he'll be a productive player for a long time. And in this league, overpaying for good talent is always better than trying to be cheap and fill that role with younger, possibly less talented players. That's why Orlando traded for a Vince Carter, and sent a young player like Courtney Lee packing.

Because Crawford has a knack for drawing a foul off of his jumpshot. He doesn't drive to the hole as much as JJ, but he definitely draws more fouls off of his jumper.

If Mo opts out, that just frees up more money to re-sign JJ. Personally, I don't think he will.

Jamal's acquistion by the Warriors, and why they acquired him ( make sure you listen to the audio ) http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/warriors_acquire_jamal_crawford.html Now check out these links, telling of Crawford's demise with the Warriors: ( but I've done this before, and you won't believe what some of these links are saying ): SLAM online article basically alleging that Nellie wanted Jamal to opt out of his contract, so that the Warriors could re-do it: http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2009/03/don-nelsons-ultimatum-for-jamal-crawford/ NBA fanhouse article on basically the same thing: http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/03/12/don-nelson-wants-jamal-crawford-gone/ Golden Stat of Mind Fan Poll on this issue: http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2009/3/7/785039/polling-gsom-do-you-want-j Fans perspective . . they were definitely split. Some blamed Nelson. Others blamed Crawford and his inefficient play: http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2009/3/23/807914/jamal-crawford-s-return-de SFgate.com article: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/warriors/detail?blogid=39&entry_id=37330 While the demise of Jamal in Oaktown probably had more to do with Nellie trying to force-feed something that wasn't there . . with his "small-ball" concept, Jamal's play in Golden St didn't help matters either. After only 3 months of watching him play, they pretty much gave up on the dude, played the young guys, and tanked the season . . . looking to trade him away for basically nothing. No team in the league wanted Jamal ( to my knowledge ) . . but US . . because we had a need for a #2 type scorer to pair with JJ. He's worked out beautifully for us, because we don't try to force him to be a playmaking PG, as well as a scoring 2-guard. We just tell the dude to score PERIOD, try to play solid defense, and if a passing play is there . . go ahead and make it. Nothing wrong with that role for him. And I think he embraces it fully.

And before people go crazy over that comment . . . I know that JJ had already shown that he had pretty good all-around skills. It's just that with the Hawks, Woody coached him up to be that #1 guy, even when people were doubting that JJ could be that player.

My comparisons have been DEAD ON. Vinnie Johnson, Jason Terry, Ricky Pierce, Leonardo Barbosa, J.R. Smith, etc . . . have all been used in that "instant offense" 6th man role, and excelled in that role. I'm not saying that Vinnie Johnson and Crawford are equal talents. I'm saying that they were used in the exact same role. When you talk about equal talents, JT and Jamal are a better comparison, with a slight advantage going to Terry. Hmmmmm . . . let's see then. Just because somebody tells you something, doesn't make it true. Always check to see if the source is accurate. PER 36 numbers: ( looking at the career best year Jamal Crawford ( 2009 - 10 ): 20.9 ppg . . 2.9 rebs . . 3.5 assists . . . 44.9% FG ( 16.2 - FGA/gm ) . . 38.2% 3FG ( 6.2 - 3FGA/gm ) . . 85.7% FT ( 4.6 - FTA/gm ) Jason Terry ( 2008 - 09 ): 20.9 ppg . . 2.6 rebs . . 3.6 assists . . . 46.3% FG ( 16.9 - FGA/gm ) . . 36.6% 3FG ( 6.6 3FGA/gm ) . . 88.0% FT ( 3.3 - FTA/gm ) LOL . . . looks pretty similar to me, wouldn't you say? JT's shooting has fallen off this year, but this year's Crawford and last year's Terry, were almost identical twins. By the way, these are Ricky Pierce's PER 36 numbers in the year he averaged 23 ppg in the 1989 - 90 season: Ricky Pierce ( 1898 - 90 ): 28.6 ppg . . 3.5 rebs . . 2.8 assists . . . 51% FG ( 16.7 - FGA/gm ) . . 34.6% 3FG ( 2.8 - 3FGA/gm ) . . 83.9% FT ( 7.7 FTA/gm ) So as you can see, Ricky Pierce was NOTHING like JT or Jamal, in their career best year in the 6th man role. For those of us who are old enough to see Ricky play back in the day ( don't know if you are or not ), Ricky was a mid-range ASSASSIN who could also post you up and slash to the hole. To be honest, Ricky was a smaller, but more physical version of Joe Johnson . . without the passing and defensive abilities. Once Ricky got his chance to produce, he made the most of it and became a great instant offense type scorer. And let's be honest. The vast majority of these "instant offense" type players are put in that role, because they are very suspect on the defensive end. So a coach may opt to start a better defensive player in his place, then bring in the instant offense guy into the game as the change of pace scorer. That's what Jamal Crawford's role is here in ATL. And he's excelled in that role, which should lead him to be 6th Man of the Year. First off . . JJ isn't as good as Duncan, Dirk, Lebron and Kobe, so it's silly to bring their names up into this discussion. The only thing JJ has in common with those guys are: 1) he's the guy that the opposing team looks to stop FIRST ( and won't hesitate to double team him ) 2) and he takes and sometimes makes very difficult shots ( ala what Lebron and Kobe do at times ) We're not a 60+ win team, because our defense is too inconsistent. And Crawford's role is not to take up JJ's slack . . it's to add to what JJ brings to the table, which he's done very well this year. JJ is having one of his best shooting years of his career this season. (( GASP )) . . so are you saying that Woody DEVELOPED JJ? I've said that all along. Woody has pretty much groomed and molded JJ into the player he is today. Instead of him being that "instant offense" player that he was in Phoenix ( even though he was a starter ), Woody pretty much coached him up to play like he had superstar talent. ( By the way . . . he's also done that with Josh Smith, even if people won't give him credit for it. ) Crank . . . with JJ having the ball in his hands as much as he does, there is NO DOUBT that JJ had a SIGNIFICANT part in making the Hawks what they are today. LOL . . why would you even dispute this? Even the most vocal JJ hater wouldn't say something that silly. The dude has led this team in scoring in all 5 years, and in assists in 4 of the 5 years. He's our best ( pretty much only ) perimeter defender. The only thing that people can say that JJ DOESN'T do, is get to the FT line more often, and play like a superstar more often. Other than that, he pretty much does it all . . . in a non-flashy way.

So was it a bad decision for Golden St. to acquire Crawford in the first place? Remember . . they traded Al Harrington for Jamal Crawford.

Crank, he does have a point though about trade. A player as talented as he is, got traded for Speedy and Acie .. . in what was basically a salary dump. Golden St. didn't even request a draft pick ( not even a 2nd round one ). Golden St basically GAVE Crawford to us. As much as Memphis was hammered for the Pau Gasol trade, they can at least say that they acquired his brother Marc, and a 1st round pick. Golden St. didn't even get that. They tried trading him for value, but go no takers. Crawford has #1 option talent. But througout his entire career, his questionable decision making ( including his bas shot selection ), prevented him from excelling in that role. With us, all we ask him to be, is Jason Terry. They play the exact same role. And because we don't put the burden on him to carry the team in multiple facets ( like we do JJ ), he has excelled in that Terry-like role, having arguably his best season ever.

Once again you missed what happened in that game. Or just looked at the box score, and thought that Jamal was the 1, while JJ was 1a, based on shots and minutes. When JJ was in the game, he was the 1 . . not 1a. JJ controlled the ball like he normally does, scoring when it was there . . . but also being a playmaker for other guys ( including Crawford . . . whom he had 3 assists too off of jumpers. ) Crawford did the majority of his damage in the 2nd quarter. In the 2nd half . . . Crawford was 1 - 6 FG, but did play good defense and passed the ball at times. And JJ picked up a 2nd foul midway through that 2nd quarter, and Woody took him out. Evans came in and did a great job on both offense and defense that quarter, which enabled Woody to rest JJ the rest of the quarter. So what are you talking about . . . really? The guy you want to be 1a . . got 7 assists in 28 minutes, and scored 18 points. The guy you want to be 1, got red hot for a quarter, and had 19 at halftime . . but wasn't really an offensive factor the rest of the game. Benhill . . . if you know about NBA history, Crawford is our Vinnie Johnson. JJ is our Joe Dumars. If we had an equivalent to Isaiah, we'd be an NBA title contender. But Vinnie's job on those old Pistons teams, was to score the basketball in bunches . . in a short period of time. That's it. When Vinnie ( Crawford ) is on, you FEED HIM THE BALL. Let that dude put up as many points as possible. But when he's off, you either have to get him out of the game, or tell him to be more of a facilitator. Once again . . . Crawford = Vinnie Johnson Johnson = Joe Dumars

28 minutes for JJ tonight. You like?

It's definitely been a long while since I could say that the Hawks are a 50 win team. Damn . . 13 years is a LONG TIME. Some of you were still being potty-trained.

What home games have he missed?

Exactly. I guess people think we can sign Rudy Gay for 4 - 5 million or something. He's going to get a nice contract himself. He'll defintiely get more than what Marvin got.

Young cats like MVP get one thing stuck in their mind, but don't totally see the entire picture. His NBA knowledge for his age is pretty dang good, but he still doesn't understand the dynamics of the league yet. It's easy for him to go off on JJ, because he isn't Kobe . . . or go off on Woody, because he and others think that Woody is the worst coach in the history of basketball. But he, or anybody else think that the lack of a superstar and a great coach were the only things keeping us from rapidly improving, he might want to keep reading this post. He might learn a thing or two. ******** First off . . we're not even having this discussion, had the Hawks drafted Chris Paul, and not tried to find the next Tracy McGrady ( in Marvin Williams ) I hate to bring that name back up again, but we all know what it is. You team him up with JJ, and an athletic freak like Smoove . . and combine the fact that Paul can also wreak havoc on the defensive end and with his rebounding ability as a guard, and there's no telling how good the Hawks could've been . . even without Horford. And since we're on the PG issue, who were the PGs in ATL those first 3.5 years? - Tyronn Lue - Anthony Johnson - Royal Ivey - Acie Law - Salim Stoudamire ( who we tried to convert into a PG ) - Speedy Claxton ( the crippled version ) I mean please . . . I'd trade all of those guys, for the 2006 version of Derek Fisher ( a guy that is really a 2 guard in a PGs body, but could shoot and defend well enough at the time to be a key piece on a team ) ********* How about center in those first 3 years? - Jason Collier ( R.I.P ) - John Edwards - Esteban Batista - Lorenzen Wright - Zaza Pachulia - Shelden Williams LOL . . . please again. Zaza is far and away the best center out of that group. Zaza. And even he was so inconsistent at times, that Woody had to resort to starting Lorenzen at center, even playing Smoove at center on some occasions. Shelde was supposed to be the Ben Wallace clone for us, but he ended up playing more like George Wallace the comedian ( youtube George Wallace, if you don't know who that is ) ********* Our best low post scorer in those first 3 years? . . . Al Harrington ( and only for one year ) Our best passer? . . . Joe Johnson Our #2 scoring option? . . . we didn't have one ( edit: the #2 option was Harrington . . but after he left . . no one ) Our best overall defender? . . . Joe Johnson ( would guard 4 positions back in those days ) Our best sharpshooter? . . . not Joe Johnson, but Tyronn Lue ( even if he did pound the ball for 20 seconds . . . I guess Lue was the Godfather of ISO basketball in the Woody era ) Our best rebounder? . . . not Josh Smith, but Josh Childress Numbers wise, it was Zaza. But on a Per 36 minute basis, Chill was better. Our best low post defender? . . . Lorenzen Wright. But he was so horrible offensively, that he couldn't even grab rebounds. And he really wasn't that good defensively. *********** MVP . . . don't EVER make the mistake that we had some sort of great squad 3 years ago. We barely had any talent back then, and were winning games mainly because of Joe Johnson, and the ability of our frontcourt guys to get out and run. And just think . . . had we won the NBA Lottery in 2007, we wouldn't have picked Kevin Durant, even though he was the best player in the country. We would've chosen Greg Oden . . . because we desperately needed a center. Instead, we get "lucky", and get the #3 pick, and select Horford. And even with that, things didn't totally turn around, until we got rid of Lue and AJ, and brought in Bibby. *********** Here's a challenge to all of you gamers out ther who have either NBA Live 10 or NBA 2K10. See if you can win the NBA title with the Hawks. Set the playoffs up exactly as they would go right now, and play the game Here's the catch: I want you to COACH the Hawks. I don'mt want you controlling a single pass or shot or playing defense. Simply COACH THEM. Control the substitutions . . the style of play . . whatever. But don't physically play the game action AT ALL. This means that you'll have to manage and watch an entire game, rather than have the computer simulate it for you. And you MUST START BIBBY AND MARVIN for at least 1/2 of the 1st and 3rd quarters . . which means you MUST start the regular Hawks lineup. After that point, if you want to give the bench some run, go right ahead. See what you can do with the Hawks, and who performed. And DON'T LIE.

GM . . . but the fans overrate the talent. People will readily say that JJ isn't a superstar ( which is correct ), but not talk about the obvious deficiencies in our other players. - Who is the back to the basket scorer on this team? We don't have one. The one element that teams use to get easy baskets, we really don't have that here. - Who is the sharpshooter on this team? We don't have one. JJ and Crawford are our best shooters, but they're not sharpshooters by any stretch of the imagination. Mo Evans can't be considered as a sharpshooter either. - Who is the lockdown defender on this team? The closest is JJ. He's good, but I wouldn't consider him a lockdown defender. - Who is the floor leader of the Hawks? Bibby is the closest thing we have to that. And people HATE Bibby. There are a lot of essential elements that this team lacks, that the other good teams have. What we do have that they don't, is an extremely athletic squad that can get up and down the floor . . . but only when they get stops. They HAVE TO GET STOPS in order to showcase what they do the best. If they don't get stops, it's usually up to the shotmaking ability of JJ and Crawford to pull the game out. As much as I love Smoove and Horford, their games are limited as offensive players, because of the lack of low post moves to get them easy shots ( or trips to the free throw line ).

The Hawks play just like Utah and Denver. World beaters at home . . . can lose to anybody on the road. Drives the fans crazy, because they show flashes of greatness and flashes of sorryness at the same time.

We didn't lose all of those games that we blew leads in . . . but that sounds about right.

The season that Marvin is having this year reminds me of the season that Andrei Kirilenko had back in 06 - 07. That was the seasn in which the Jazz transitioned from trying to feature him in the offense, to them handing control over the offense to Deron Williams. AK pretty much sulked at the lack of touches he was getting ( after being pretty much "the man" 2 years earlier ). The more Deron and Boozer played like Stockton and Malone, the more of a complimentary scorer AK became. It even affected his defense. The following seasn, Jerry Sloan even benched him for a while, because of his inconsistent play, and he completely fell out of favor with the fans ( because his production and effort were nowhere near matching what he was getting paid per year ). I think we all knew that when we brought in Crawford, that he would take shots from everybody except JJ. It turns out though, that he took more shots away from Bibby and Marvin, than anybody else. At that point, it was up to Marvin to adjust his game and become more of an energy/intangibles player . . and a guy who could knock down open shots. That's something that he hasn't consistently done all year. So if he couldn't get the touches that he got in years past, we at least needed him to affect game in some other way, whether it be on the defensive end, or with his rebounding. Unfortunately, we can't even get that kind of effort out of him in half the games. I've always thought that Diesel's comments about Marvin, while not completely off-base, were somewhat unfair . . because the dude was at least producing numbers at a decent rate. Marvin wasn't great, but at least he wasn't garbage. Marvin better be careful. With JJ and Mo having the ability to play the 3, Woody may start treating Marvin like Royal Ivey, and play him for the first 5 - 7 minutes of each half, and not even THINK ABOUT putting him back in the game.

What's really scary, is that the main teams talking about acquiring JJ, are Eastern Conference squads . . . squads that are currently below the Hawks. If Chicago gets a hold of him, you're now talking about the Bulls not only having one of the biggest backcourts in the NBA, they may be the best backcourt in the NBA as early as next year. New York already has their eyes on him, as part of their quest to acquire 2 of the top 5 or 6 free agents this summer. And if either Cleveland or Miami happen to lose their superstar, those teams are going to be looking to the available free agents to replace that superstar. And if JJ hooks up with either Lebron or Wade, God help us all. We need as much firepower as possible to counteract what some of these teams may look like going into next year. Worrying about how JJ will look in years 5 and 6 of this deal, should not deter ANY GM from not signing this dude long term. We may only have a 3 - 4 year "window of opportunity" to even be in position to win a NBA Title. So our talent level needs to be as high as possible in these next 3 to 4 years.

Spot . . . they just don't like the ISO offense, regardless if it produces points or not. And as you know, we don't run ISO all the time anyway. But when we do, and JJ or Crawford either misses a shot . . . or they pass to an open shooter and they miss a shot . . . then the offense is bad ( even if it got a wide open look to one of our "shooters" )

We have 2 guys ( JJ and Jamal ) who can create and make shots. They're the ones that are going to have to keep us afloat in the playoffs. Every other squad in the playoffs have those types of guys, and the same bodes for them. We need both JJ and Jamal to be playing at optimum level, for us to make noise. If they miss shots, we're in trouble. Sounds too simplistic, but that's really what it comes down to. We can't expect one of those guys to have a bad playoff series, but expect Horford or Smoove to suddenly become 20+ ppg scorers to make up for it.

And once again . . who is talking about paying the dude 20 million? We're not going to pay him 20 million a year. But some of you act like he's only worth 10 million, with the way some of you go at that dude on a nightly basis, especially after he has a lackluster game. It's been explained continuously how much other teams can offer him, compared to what we can do. And the trump card we have, is that we can offer him that extra 6th year ( if necessary ) . . which could far surpass any deal any other team can offer him. He's not going to make Kobe or D-Wade money. I think even he knows that. But the dude is going to get paid whether it be by us, or by somebody else. And if I have to supposedly "overpay" to keep an All-Star player here, rather than to go on some duck hunt to try to find multiple guys to replace him, then I'm willing to "overpay" him. I mean . . . if you're willing to see the Hawks move on, by replacing JJ with a combination of Josh Childress and a free agent like Flip Murray, then be my guest. Remember, even we renounce JJ's rights and he goes to another team, it's not like we're going to have a lot of money to get a starter quality 2-guard here. That's what some of you don't get. If you have to overpay to keep an All-Star quality guard in the mix, rather than searching for "diamonds in the rough" to replace him, then you're much better off overpaying for that star player. What kills teams, is when they overpay for mediocre to bad players. When Speedy Claxton kept getting injured, his 5 mill a year contract was a detriment to the team. And if Marvin and Bibby keep playing like they do, their 5 and 7 million dollar deals ( which looked to be fair at the time ), will become extremely detrimental to the team. So even if JJ isn't the best player on the squad in Year 4 of his contract, his contract won't be a detriment to the team unless he becomes extremely unproductive or just an average SG. Vince Carter is "technically" overpaid, making 16 mill this year and 17 mill next year. But he's still a viable enough of a player to be an important cog to that Magic team. And probably will still be next year. The Magic ain't tripping off Vince making that much money, as long as he can still come up big in a game every now and then.

If we get to the EC Finals, Woody will be re-signed. He'll possibly get re-signed if we take Orlando or Cleveland to a Game 7, but lose a real close game. If JJ is retained, we'll probably bring back Woody. Woody has done a good coacing job this season, and so far, is worthy of a new contract. (( chanting )) 4 more years! . . . 4 more years!

Well Johnny, that's pretty much the reality of the situation. If JJ bounces, we're not going to get back the quality of player(s) that we need to keep us at this current level. If JJ leaves, we not only lose a guy who can create his own offense off the dribble, we lose a perimeter defender and passer. Your trade scenario isn't even feesible, because Portland fans would laugh you off the board. Don't mean to sound harsh, but you know Marvin's trade value ( especially for a quality big like Aldridge ) is less than zero. Why would they trade their best big, just because they have a lot of bigs? It just doesn't make sense.