TheNorthCydeRises

LOL @ chill out. It's pretty much known that about half of this fan base either think JJ is overrated, or simply don't like the dude or his style of play. So whenever someone brings up something positive about the guy, people are less reluctant to give him props. It's all good though. I posted the exact same post on the ajc board, with just a slightly better reaction.

LOL . . . it's amazing that when you bring up just how good JJ is, compared to some of the other guys who are routinely viewed as being better than him, that this board goes silent. Like you all didn't know this or something? Or just didn't realize it.

It's his long midrange shot that's off recently. Since the All-Star break, he's 16 - 49 FG from that range ( 33% ) . . .the last 5 games, he's shooting 5 - 29 FG ( 17% ) from that area. Last night, he was 1 - 6 from that area. So you're definitely right in noticing what you did. His shots in the paint are fine though: at rim: 21 - 35 FG ( 60% ) <10 FT: 20 - 33 ( 61% ) 10 - 15 FT: 8 - 16 ( 50% ) Like how Crawford falls in love with the 3 at times, JJ falls in love with that 18 - 20 footer at times. So as Crawford sometimes need to take shots within the arc when his 3 isn't falling, JJ needs to try to get into the short midrange area, when his long midrange game isn't going. His overall FG% after the all-star break hasn't suffered much, due to the fact that he is getting in the paint, when the 20 footer isn't falling. JJ, when he has the advantage, simply needs to keep attacking and not settling for the long jumper.

Exactly. If anything, if there is no chance that our playoff seeding will change, you'll see Woody either rest Bibby for the final few games . . . or simply coach it like a preseason game, and play the starters a set number of minutes, to keep them ready. We're in a playoff race now. No way that you tinker with that starting lineup, unless Bibby can't go at all. And it's "for Pete's sake" . . . not peeps . . lol

One more thing. When you talk about putting up 20 - 4 - 4 in consecutive seasons, only 5 of these guys have done that for the past 4 consecutive seasons. Kobe Lebron Wade Vince and Joe Johnson . . . Kobe, Lebron, Wade and JJ will do it again in 09 - 10. Kobe, Lebron, Wade and Monta Ellis will all be 25 - 4 - 4 members. Joe Johnson, Tyreke Evans, and Brandon Roy will make the 20 - 4 - 4 club. Gilbert Arenas and Chris Paul, who saw their seasons cut short, will also make the 20 - 4 - 4 club this season. Vince and Pierce won't make the 20 - 4 - 4 club this season. So for this year, only 9 guys can say that they did this for the entire season.

There have been 10 guys who have averaged a combined 20 ppg - 4 rebounds - and 4 assists over the last 5 seasons ( or at least during their entire career, if they haven't played 5 seasons yet ). The elite class in this group, of course, are the Big 3 in the league ( Kobe, Lebron, Wade ). They can actually say that they've averaged 25 - 4 - 4 per game. Gilbert Arenas can say that too, although he is by far less efficient player in this group. The reason people think Tyreke Evans is going to be special ( and why Kevin Martin immediately became expendable ), was that he's already putting up 20 - 4 - 4 numbers in his rookie year. He's actually very close to being a 20 - 5 - 5 player. Tracy McGrady makes this list, but he's shot a very inefficient 41.7% FG combined in the past 5 seasons. But like I said, only 10 players in the league make this list. And here they are, sorted according to PPG: THE ELITE 1) Kobe Bryant: 30 ppg - 5.6 rebs - 5.0 asst 2) Lebron James: 29.4 ppg - 7.3 rebs - 7.1 asst ( the modern day Oscar Robertson ) 3) Dwyane Wade: 29.4 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 7 asst THE "SHOULD BE ELITE" IF HE WASN'T AN IDIOT ON AND OFF THE COURT 4) Gilbert Arenas: 27.1 ppg - 4 rebs - 6.2 asst ( lost almost a full 2 years to injury though ) THE "ALMOST ELITE" BUT LACK A FEW THINGS THE ELITE GUYS HAVE 5) Paul Pierce: 22 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 5.6 asst 6) Vince Carter: 21.9 ppg - 5.5 rebs - 4.5 asst 7) Joe Johnson: 21.8 ppg - 4.4 rebs - 5.5 asst THE "COULD'VE BEEN EITE" IF HE WASN'T SO BRITTLE AND TOOK SUCH BAD SHOTS 8) Tracy McGrady: 21.5 ppg - 5.2 rebs - 5.5 asst THE POSSIBLE ELITE IN 3 - 5 YEARS 9) Tyreke Evans: 20.3 ppg - 4.9 rebs - 5.4 asst 10) Brandon Roy: 20.2 ppg - 4.6 rebs - 5 asst That's it. There's your modern day 20 - 4 - 4 club. To see the entire list for yourself, click here ( I reduced the link from basketball-reference.com . . . to a tinyurl link ): http://tinyurl.com/ykt9dky

This is how good we are. The Hawks have had ONE 3+ game losing streak all year. ONE And that was the 4 game losing streak during the Christmas/New Year's holiday . . which included Nate Robinson going off on us and the refs and score clock operator cheating us in Cleveland. The 4 game losing streak was part of a 6 losses out of 8 game stretch we had. That's it. That's really the only time this team looked to be remotely in trouble. For me, this has easily been the least stressful season I've seen as a Hawk fan. Even in the 1993 - 94 season, the Dominique situation stressed the hell out of me, even though we were the #1 team in the East at the time. But this season has been a breeze from Day 1. The bad losses this season don't stress me out one bit, because they've shown all year that they can bounce right back, and get it going again. In 2 1/2 weeks, we're going to get an indication of how ready for the playoffs this team is: Mar 21st vs San Antonio( ESPN ) Mar 24th vs Orlando Mar 31st vs LA Lakers Apr 2nd @ Cleveland ( ESPN ) That's the final test before the playoffs.

"Money Midrange" did his thing tonight. This was the Ruben Patterson version of Marvin tonight. Slash and burn on offense . . . Bump and grind on defense. Great game from him tonight. And I agree with gsuteke. If by some miracle we get Big Z, do not start him. Bring him off the bench, to prevent Smoove from playing significant minuts at the 3. Keep Marvin in that starting lineup.

Lou looks like Baby Iverson tonight. Al we have to do is stop him on a few possessions, and we can open this lead up. But I guess Lou is not having any of that though.

I bet the Boston players all voted for Zaza

Well written, objective, and right on the money. Bibby's BBIQ alone almost requires that he still be the starter. No way I want a rookie leading this starting lineup in the playoffs. It's funny though. Bibby is in a major slump, but still a better offensive option than Teague, who has major trouble finishing in traffic and making midrange jumpshots. Recently, Woody is playing this exactly right. He starts Bibby . . . gets Teague in at the end of the 1st . . . if the game is still somewhat under control, he leaves Teague in to start the 2nd . . . and gets Bibby back in midway through the 2nd to possibly finish the half. Once the 2nd half starts, the rotation is shortened as to allow Crawford to play the 1 in place of Bibby midway through the 3rd . . if we have control of the game, Teague may filter back in . . if not, Crawford stays at the 1. Bibby may or may not play in the 4th. That's the right way to rotate them for the rest of the season.

People have to remember that JJ has never played with a dominant low post scorer . . or a pass first PG in Atlanta. He's a SG that has basically had to create his own offense for 5 years now. But in Phoenix, that dude was one of the best shooters in the league, when he played with a pass first PG and a dominant big man. Just give him one of those elements today, and there's no telling the numbers the guy could put up.

MrH, that just goes to show how disrespected JJ is as a player. Sometimes, all of those stats don't differentiate between the roles of players, and how a star player can influence how effective that player is. I haven't watched a lot of Knick games, other than when we played them and when Memphis played them. But I haven't seen anybody try to gameplan to stop David Lee from scoring. The Knicks are so bad, that you have to wonder if Lee ever sees a double team. That's why when something is saying that he's going to be a better player in 2 years than Dirk, you have to question that big time. Dirk gets the kitchen sink thrown at him every night, and he still produces. Lee doesn't see that. So while Lee may have better numbers, they're not the same player when it comes to being a lead guy. Jamal Crawford is a perfect example of this. As a main guy, he's as inefficient of a scorer that it is out there. As a complimentary guy, he's lethal, because the opposing team can't gameplan to stop just Crawford. They have to gameplan for JJ first, then possibly Josh Smith next . . then Crawford. The same goes for Ginoboli. You have to stop or slow down Duncan and Parker first, before you address Ginoboli. Like Crawford, Ginoboli gets to be the "leader" of the Spurs 2nd team. Ginoboli never faces double teams because people are so worried about Parker's penetration and Duncan's post up and shot making ability. The BIG DIFFERENCE between Manu and JJ, is JJ's ability to take AND MAKE contested jumpshots. The ability of a guy to create his own offense, is one of the biggest factors in whether that guy can be a star player, and lead a team offensively. Manu's outside game is dependent off of people setting him up for open jumpers, and him slashing to the lane. His shooting percentage has plummeted this year, and his midrange shooting is JOSH SMITH LIKE this season. He's still a slasher, but he's obviously a lot less effective going to the hole. And it's his slashing that makes him a good player, and also an injury prone player. Basically, Manu's total worth as a player is because he's become more of a playmaker this season. But check out his hotspot data. You may be shocked at what you see from him this year as a player. http://www.nba.com/hotspots/ If JJ played with Tim Duncan, and could play inside-outside ball with him, there's no telling what JJ would shoot from the outside, especially from 3 point range in which he could become a catch and shoot guy. There's also no telling how much JJ's assists numbers would go up, if he could play with a pretty good midrange shooter like Duncan. Fact is . . there is no way in hell Ginoboli could be the main guy on an NBA team right now. Maybe 4 years ago he could, but not now. And he's definitely not a better projected player than either JJ or Rudy Gay 2 - 3 years in the future. If Rudy ever develops his midrange jumper, that guy is going to explode into a lethal offensive player.

Marvin: 18 pts - 9 rebs - 4 asst . . . pretty damn good night from him.

Win the Division and get the #2 spot if possible. That should be this team's goal. If we win the division, at least we have something to celebrate until the playoffs start. I want home court advantage in that 2nd round, regardless of who we play.

LOL @ Stack being "trill". That's a good slang description for how he played last night. I was sitting about 2 rows behind some dude who was a huge Stackhouse fan. Everytime Stack made a shot, he'd start clapping as loud as he could. I'm behind him, complaining to myself how we couldn't stop Jerry, and dude was just loving it. @ Diesel . . . I agree. The problem with the 4th quarter though, is that we'll IMMEADIATELY blow those leads at the beginning of the quarter. If we're able to lead late, we usually have enough in the tank to hold on for victory. While not pretty, that was a big win vs a red hot team.

I agree with that too, although fans will go into a fit every time we lose a game without him. But if he's hurting that bad that it completely throws off his shot, shut him down for a few games.

Looks like Hollinger notices it too . . . or reads Hawksquawk. The fact that he cited what Hawk fans call "iso-Joe", indicates that he does read the boards. He might even be a poster on the AJC board or even on this one. OK . . now that we know that he's hurt, it makes all the more reason for him to lay off the 3, and get to the rim or take that midrange jumper. It didn't make a lot sense though to jack up all of those 3s, when he has a shoulder injury. As long as he's hurting, Marvin and Mo will have to step up. If Craw starts out cold, we don't need him to continue to shoot. Use your quickness to create good scoring opportunities for others.

He saved our butts last night, that's for sure. He's putting up young Kevin Garnett type numbers lately. Other than the bad 4th quarter at Golden St, he's been outstanding lately. The most important thing he's doing, is making a commitment on the boards. Him averaging over 10 rebs over those past 10 games is the most important stat to me. Keep it up Smoove. With other people struggling, we definitely need this type of play out of you.

I'm not an all out Marvin defender on here, but he only had 2 defensive lapses last night ( and no, not guarding Ridnour on that 3 wasn't one of them, because Luke was either driving, or coming off that screen to shoot the long midrange jumper . . not the 3 ). The one you cited, in which he for some reason was sagging inside, leaving Salmons wide open for a 20 footer. The other was in the first half, in which he got caught watching the ball on the other side of the lane. I believe he was watching Bogut try to back down his man and faded toward Bogut to give help. The man who was on Marvin's side, cut along the baseline to the basket, got a pass for Bogut, and made a wide open layup. But if it wasn't for the defense of Smoove, Horford, AND Marvin in that 4th quarter, we don't make it to OT. JJ played a terrible 3.5 quarters of that game. And if he didn't pull the game out, you better be sure that this board would be littered with"JJ isn't this or that" . . or . . "Trade JJ" . . or . . "Let JJ walk" posts. The problems with Bibby defensively can be offset, if Bibby is making shots. The same goes for Jamal. If he continues to miss shots, he either needs to go into playmaker mode, or attack like he did last night and get to the line. Just keep your eye on dude. It's not like he's struggling a little. He's struggling BIG TIME.

Craw was 3 - 14 FG tonight,( bringing him to 25 for his last 84 FG ) . . . . but shot 9 FTs to offset his horrible shooting and defensive night. At least he didn't bomb away from 3 point land. He attacked more and took more midrange jumpers. Woody did pull him in that 4th quarter, and got Marvin back in the game for added defense. Then Woody got Bibby outand put Craw back in. That's probably how he has to manage that. If both Bibby and Crawford aren't making shots, get Marvin back in and choose between who is more productive between Bibs and Craw.

I agree. His length was needed against Salmons down the stretch and was effective, other than the 3 he hit in OT. For once, the defense kept us close enough when we were ice cold, to finally pull out one of these games in the 4th.

JJ 2 FTs to put us up 4. If we win, he may get the ofensive credit, but Smoove possibly saved our azz tonight. LMAO . . . and Salmons hits a 3 to give him 32 points. He has 32 and Stack has 20. Now we need to make 2 more FTs. Craw at the line for 2.

We had about 10K here . . . at the end of regulation, about 20% of the arena walked out. Wen we got down 5, another 10% walked out. So now, it's maybe 7K here right now. JJ with 5 straight points to give us a 2 point lead. Problem is that Horford has 5 fouls.

OK . . . so JJ front rims the game winner. going to OT. WOW . . . . WTH??? EVERYBODY WHO JUST WALKED OUT OF THIS ARENA SHOULD NEVER COME BACK TO A HAWKS GAME. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN IF WE LOSE OR NOT. WHO WALKS OUT OF A GAME AT THE START OF OVERTIME? MOVE THIS FRANCHISE OUT OF ATLANTA!!!!