TheNorthCydeRises

So far so good . . . except for the 30 point quarter we just gave up in the 2nd. That has to stop.

Nope. All I said was that Stan is going into panic mode already. There's no inference of if he's a good or bad coach. I'd be silly to say that a guy who has the best center in the league and about 7 legit 3 point shooters playing good together, is an awful coach. Just like I'd be silly to say that a coach that had won 21 games . . . despite not having a top 10 player overall, a top 15 PG, a decent low post threat, and a bunch of suspect jumpshooters . . . isn't a good coach either. Stan is always honest. Sometimes TOO honest. Woody is honest too. Woody's rotations are never a problem to him. He'll blame himself and the team for not being "ready to play". Or he'll adjust his scheme ( mainly on defense ) so they can rebound and defend better. Stan worries about offense. Woody worries about defense. That's the only difference in the 2, in my opinion.

LOL That's one thing that can be said about the crowd at Philips Arena. Everybody in the building is FULLY AWARE that Smoove shouldn't be taking any kind of jumpshot. I was at the Cleveland game, and that situation came up. It was sometime in the 2nd half. Smoove gets the ball just outside of the right elbow, around the top of the key. He was wide open, and no Cleveland defender was going to even try to contest the shot. All of a sudden, you hear the crowd say . . . NOOOOOOOOOOOO And he didn't shoot it. I believe he passed it to JJ. Well . . . JJ goes to make a move, gets stuck, and passes it back out to Smoove. Once again, he was wide open. Before the crowd could react again, he jacks up a jumper . . . CLANK. (( mumble, mumble from the crowd )) Smoove knows what's up. Woody stares him down everytime he misses a jumper, especially if he shoots it earlier in the shot clock. The crowd definitely lets him know that we don't want him taking jumpers at all. But disciplining Smoove because of that, hurts the team. We'd try to correct one thing, but would also be taking our best hustle defensive player off the floor as well. So while he's on the bench to "teach him a lesson", we're seeing an 8 point lead shrink to 3 . . or a 2 point decifit balloon to 8. Cutting off our nose to spite our face. It'll be like cutting off your leg because you just tore your ACL. Yeah, you may not can run right now, but if you cut your leg off, you can't run at all.

LOL...no. But the individual breakdowns of the efficiency stats are much more interesting to me. It's just a lot of things get argued on this board. The individual breakdowns just tell that much more about the strengths and weaknesses of the team. The efficiency numbers show what we can't do without, and what we can possibly overcome on this team.

I'm glad you have confidence in Sund, because I don't. Bringing in Crawford for basically nothing was a good move from a talent upgrade perspective. But that move has effectively put us in the situation that we're in right now with JJ. It's Crawford's 10+ million contract in 2010-11 that may cause the Hawks to pass on JJ. And if the plan all along is for Crawford to be the replacement for JJ, then I'm definitely not on the Sund bandwagon. I saw Sund waste 1st round picks 3 consecutive years, chasing after raw big men. He has a track record of chasing after "fool's gold". When you look at the people a guy like Robert Swift was picked ahead of in 2004, it's scary - Josh Smith - Al Jefferson - JR Smith - Jameer Nelson - Kevin Martin People talk about BK's Shelden Williams pick in 2006, but at least Shelden had outstanding collegiate accolades. Swift was basically a high school kid who was a very raw talent. And don't even get me started on Walter's boy, Saer Sene. He gets a B- from me so far. He's improved our team, no doubt.. .but he may have mortgaged our future at the same time.

Welcome to the board. Here's what you need to survive here on a daily or weekly basis: - THICK SKIN, because people WILL challenge your opinions - A favorite player to defend, no matter what - A player you always feel a need to criticize, no matter what - An opinion on Mike Woodson ( this is mandatory ) - The ability to come up with feesible trade scenarios - Develop one topic you feel strongly about, and not waver one bit from it. If you do these 6 things, you'll fit in well on this board.

Come on now. He did beat the East favorites last year in Boston and Cleveland in consecutive playoff series. The next level is winning a title. But if a coach has his team at Championship contender level already, you don't fire him because he can't win a title. Having said that, you are right. Orlando ( outside of Howard ) are very soft. If they're not outshooting you, then they definitely run into problems.

From an efficiency standpoint, the Hawks have beaten their opponent 20 times, winning all 20 games. We have lost 13 times, only winning 1 of those games ( @ Dallas ). So if you're looking for something to guage the Hawks on, the efficiency numbers pretty much tell it all. Now, let's break those numbers down by individual group, and see which group we need to do well, in order for us to win. Bolded category records are from an EFFICIENCY standpoint only. Individual breakdown of records within the efficiency is what we actually did in those games when we won or lost the efficiency battle in that category. STARTERS: 22 - 11 We're 19 - 3 when they have a higher efficiency number than the other team's starters ( losses vs NY Knicks on1/1, @ Detroit, and @ New Orleans. 2- 9 when they don't. ( wins @ Dallas and @ Sacramento ) BENCH: 14 - 18 We're 13 - 1 when our bench outplays the other team's bench. ( only loss being @ LA Lakers ). 8 - 10 when our opponents bench outplays us. Played to a draw in one game. BACKCOURT: 22 - 11 We're 19 - 3 when our backcourt outplays our opponent's backcourt ( losses @ LA Lakers, @ Detroit, and @ Cleveland ). 2 - 9 when they don't ( wins vs Utah and @ Portland ) FRONTCOURT: 19 - 14 We're 17 - 2 when our frontcourt outplays our opponent's frontcourt ( losses @ New Orleans and vs NY Knicks on 1/1 ). 4 - 10 when they get outplayed ( wins @ Portland, @ Dallas, @ Philly, and vs Washington ) IN THE PAINT: 20 - 12 We're 15 - 5 when we're more efficient than our opponent in the paint. 4 of those 5 losses have come since Dec. 19th ( @ Chicago, @ Denver, @ Cleveland, and vs NY Knicks on New Year's Day ). 5 - 7 when we don't ( most notable wins @ Dallas and @ Portland ). We were even in one game. OUT OF THE PAINT: 19 - 14 We're a perfect 19 - 0 when we're more efficient outside the paint than our opponent ( i.e. - making our jumpshots ). 2 - 12 when we're not ( wins vs Miami and vs Portland ). POINT GUARD: 14 - 17 We're 11 - 3 when our point guards outplay the opponents PGs. ( losses @ LA Lakers, vs Cleveland 12/29, and @ Miami ). 9 - 8 when they don't. Played to a draw twice ( winning both games ) SHOOTING GUARD: 23 - 9 We're 18 - 5 when our shooting guards outplay the opponent SGs ( losses in each of the 2 New York home losses, @ Cleveland, @ Detroit, @ Chicago ). 2- 7 when they lose the battle ( wins vs New Jersey and vs Portland ). The SGs battled to a draw in one game. SMALL FORWARD: 15 - 18 We're 14 - 1 when our small forwards outplay the opponents SFs ( only loss vs NY Knicks 12/4 ). 7 - 11 when they don't. We have lost our last 9 games, in which we have lost the efficiency battle at SF. POWER FORWARD: 19 - 14 We're 14 - 5 when we win the battle at power forward. ( losses @ Charlotte, @ New Orleans, vs Orlando, @ Detroit, and vs NY Knicks 1/1 ). 7 - 7 when we don't win the battle. We have lost 5 straight games when we lose the efficiency battle at PF, starting with the Chicago game on Dec. 19th. CENTER: 20 - 12 We're 14 - 5 when our centers have outplayed our opponent's Cs. ( 4 of those losses have come in the last 5 games, despite our center winning the efficiency battle, @ Chicago, @ Denver, @ Cleveland, and vs NY Knicks on 1/1 ). We're 6 - 6 when we don't outplay our opponent. The centers battled to a draw in one game. It is what it is folks.

"Look, we're just playing terrible, we really are. Offensively, it's just really bad right now. We can't score, we can not score. I need to look at everything, playing different guys, I don't know. It's just not working in the least." - Stan Van Gundy Dang, it sounds like he's in panic mode already. I guess this is what Shaq was talking about, when Stan was the coach in Miami. Shaq called him "the master of panic".

I was afraid that it might be moved. Thank you for your graciousness in leaving it here.

No Granger, Murphy, Hansbrough, or Foster? Let ROY HIBBERT score 26 points - 8 rebounds - 4 blocks? Shame on you Orlando, for keeping us close with back to back losses @ Chicago and @ Indiana.

The Hawks are in a 4 game skid ( 6 out of 8 losing streak ). Why are you losing games to keep us within striking distance? I thought you were an elite team? How could you lose to INDIANA on the road? It's INDIANA for God's sake. Carter shoots 2 - 15 FG? Howard takes less than 10 FGs AGAIN? So is "elite going to mean that a team won 55 games? Wow.

This board would literally explode if Josh Smith were traded. Clips would be crazy t trade Kaman anyway, so all of this is probaly not worth discussing. It's funny though. Only 2 weeks ago, Smith was steal or assist from the coveted 5 x 5, showing how versatile of a player he can be at times. 2 weeks later, he's on the Hawksquawk trading block . . lol. I just wish the kid could play like a Shawn Marion - Shawn Kemp hybrid every game. As for him taking more jumpers lately, I think it may be due to him not getting any calls when he drives to the hole. So he figures that he has to score somehow, so he jacks up a wide open jumper. 17 - 78 though . . . sheesh. That's close to 20% FG

That's usually when teams get offensive rebounds . . . off of jumpshots. All they have to do, is do what Woody tells them to do, and they'll be OK. REBOUND AND DEFEND. But when you let Nate Robinson and Michael Beasley go off on you, you're probably going to lose. When this team play defense and goes after rebounds, they're hard to beat. When they make their open jumpshots, they're hard to bat. We haven't done either lately. The actual key for the Hawks, is for our backcourt to play better than the opponent's backcourt. When that happens, the Hawks always win.

So who do we replace him with? LOL . see the problem with the "let JJ go" mentality, is that most of you can't name another realistic choice to replace the guy with. So if we let JJ go, we'd either have to hope Horford develops into an offensive force, or give the ball to Crawford. Even in coachx's scenario, we're not getting a star player, all we're doing is balancing out the team a little better. You know what the problem is? The problem is that, all of a sudden, being just GOOD isn't good enough. It's either be GREAT, or get rid of people and chase greatness. Retaining JJ may not see the Hawks win a title. But it may assure that we'll win 50 games a year, ala what you see in Utah or in Dallas. But because it may not win us a title, some of you are willing to just get rid of him, and go with someone else. LOL, you can't name who, but you're willing to go with someone else . . . even if it sets us back a few seasons. I'm sorry folks, but watching that team lose for 8 straight years before they got back to the playoffs, almost had me hating NBA basketball sometimes. Now that we're good, I'm loving the fact that I can see the Hawks win 60 - 70% of the time. I mean technically, we weren't going to win a title with Dominique either ( before the 1994 season ). So in the season in which we had the best shot to possibly achieve that goal, we trade him for a younger "supposedly" more versatile player in Danny Manning. That team damn near got bounced in Rd 1 and could do little with Indiana in Rd 2. If re-signing JJ means that we'll win 48+ games a year, lose 4 times in the 2nd round and lose once in the EC Final . . but never get to the NBA Finals, I could actually live with that. It's better than wishing and hoping for ping pong balls to fall our way come May, when they have the draft lottery selection order show. But people would rather chase after ghosts, than enjoy what they have right now. LOL . . JJ is about to be a 4-time All Star, and still can't get much love. If he does leave, that'll be part of the reason why.

This might be a precursor to adding someone else to the roster. Maybe Stackhouse is coming after all. LOL . . or the return of Super Mario.

The fan base loves Smoove though, so the ASG would have to have some big balls to trade him. He's easily the most popular Hawk player. And it's been said in recent days that ATL fans would rather watch an exciting player, than a good team. The team has to be GREAT for people to come out and watch ( although when we were great earlier in the year, they still didn';t come out and watch ). So trading Josh Smith may even kill them more at the box office, even if that move made us a better team.

Here's the thing though. JJ is still going to dominate the ball here, even with Kaman in the mix. So the question is, does Kaman get his points via creating his own shot, or does he get it from Baron Davis creating good looks for him? I know Kaman does create his own offense, but he does benefit by having a good passing PG like Baron feeding him the ball as well. Kaman's midrange shooting is excellent though, suggesting that Baron indeed may be creating looks for him in those areas.

(( shrugging shoulders )) It is what it is folks. People are trying to construct the perfect team here. Well, to do that, you have to give up somebody. You give up JJ, and you give up the guy who is the best shot creator on the team. You give up Smoove, and you give up our most dynamic defender. You give up Marvin, and you reduce one of the strengths of our team, which is the ability to swtich on defense ( a point that teams always talk about when we're playing well ). I was an advocate for making a play for Marcus Camby after our playoff run was over. My thing was to trade Speedy and Evans for Camby . . or we could've done Speedy and Acie + maybe a 2nd rd pick. The way I see it, we're constructed to be a defensive team, not an offensive one. Our best chance of winning is to play defense and rebound the basketball, because we just don't have a lot of talented offensive players on the squad. We have great athletic talent, when they can get out and run. But as far as great fundamental offensive talent? Nah. So if we got Camby, I figured we could at least work him into a rotation with Josh and Al, and at least add another dominant rebounder to the squad ( which Camby is still is ). With Camby being an expiring contract though, the Clips probably wanted to keep him around, to at least entertain the thought of bringing him back. So I don't know if he was even on the block or not. If we trade Marvin, I want to trade him for expiring contracts. To me, that's his greatest trade value right now, because it will allow us to re-sign JJ and deal with Horford next year. I'm not for trading Marvin for another journeyman SF. And when people talk about bringing in a Caron Butler, they're going to want more than Marvin, that's for sure. Marvin + Teague might get us Caron . . . but people would have a fit if we traded Teague, I guess.

So of course, I voted "lack of offensive talent around JJ". And lack of a PG that can take the ball out of JJ's hands. I still say that we'd be much better off with Andre Miller than Jamal Crawford. Dre can't shoot, but he can pass and defend better than Crawford. And we'd have 2 guys who could effectively run a team in Bibby and Miller. I think a guard like Miller would definitely help Marvin out, and take some of the creation burden off of JJ. And Miller's 169 FT attempts this year would place him #2 on the Hawks, just behind Josh Smith's 171 attempts. Of course, a guy like Jason Kidd would be perfect for the Hawks. He's lost a lot defensively, but he can still run a team. And now, he can hit the 3 point shot. And if you want to see what a legit low post presence, shot creator can do for an offense, look no further than Memphis. Zach Randolph has absolutely transformed that team into a legit threat. If people really wanted to be real, he's a borderline MVP CANDIDATE. Lionel Hollins just won Coach of the Month. Zach's rebounding and shot making ability in the frontcourt, would be a godsend to a team like the Hawks. Of course, that also means that Josh Smith would've either have to be traded, or be sent to the bench. Either that, or basically use him as a utility type player at SF, that doesn;t get touches unless he gets offensive rebounds. So the fact is folks . . . if we're not playing defense and rebounding . . . and if our backcourt can't get the job done on most nights . . . we're not going to win. Or if we do win, it'll be a battle to the death.

People have to keep it real about this team. When you look at teams that can play a balanced offensive style, you usually have a dynamic PG running the show, a great creater/shooter on the wing, and a low post presence that can score efficiently in the half court set. We only have 1 of those 3 elements. When you look at the NBA.com Hotspots data ( http://www.nba.com/hotspots ), it tells you all you need to know about this team. Go to that site, and pull up the various names of the players. Look at their shooting and where they actually make shots from. Also look where they miss from. - Josh Smith ONLY scores when he can get to the rim. His jumpshot is as bad as ever. - Al Horford is basically a guy who is most effective if he can take a 15 foot jumper, or receive a pass with him going to the rim. His on the block efficiency just isn't there, even though we try to force the ball to him. - Marvin is struggling MIGHTILY with his mid-range jumper. What used to be his strength, is one of his biggest weaknesses right now. - Zaza is strictly an around the rim guy, whose ability to create is almost non-existant ( especially if a guy is the same size as he is ) - Joe Smith, is supposed to be our best frontcourt shooter. The data this year, and even his play in Cleveland last year, would indicate that he's a mediocre to slightly bad shooter at best. He can't create his own shot. So when you look at the frontcourt, you kind of see what the problem is. They're not good at creating their own shot and they struggle with midrange jumpshooting when they do get open looks. All of these players essentially need a penetrating, pass-first PG to maximize their potential. Now look at the guards/wings. - Bibby's game is almost exclusively the spot up jumper. If the NBA Hotspot data is correct, he's only gotten to the rim 33 times this year, an indication that he doesn't ( or can't ) penetrate much at all. - Crawford could be a dangerous mid-range shot creator. But he's so in love with his inconsistent 3 point shot, that it cancels out his mid-range prowess. - JJ 3-point shot is highly schizophrenic, even when wide open, although his midrange game is a little better this year. But his inability ( or unwillingness ) to draw contact, limits his scoring potential. - With Teague, as much as everyone wants to see him play, he hasn't show to be neither a good outside shooter nor a good finisher going to the hole, even in scrub time. At this time, he's no more than a more athletic version of Acie Law, like it or not. - Mo Evans, a guy that is traditionally one of the better spot up 3 point shooters in the league, is seeing his shot fall off as well. He's not going to create his shot. So he needs that pass-first PG as well. The shooting data doesn't lie folks. JJ and Crawford, as guys who can create their own shot, are better jumpshooting options, than giving our frontcourt guys open looks from 15 feet. And because we don't have a great passing PG here that can also keep people honest with his offense, the frontcourt guys can't be trusted on a nightly basis in the halfcourt offense. This is why Woody has always preached rebounding and defense. If we do that, it will ignite the fast break/quick strike offense that makes us a good offensive unit ( from an efficiency standpoint ). Our frontcourt guys score the vast majority of their points via early offense. - Josh Smith scores 7 of his 15 points within 10 seconds elasping off the shot clock. - Horford . . 5.6 of his 14 points Conversely, JJ scores most of his points in the final 10 seconds of the shot clock ( 8.1 points ). He's the "bail-out guy", when we can't score early with the other guys. It is what it is folks.

All I want to know, is what is this "code" get JJ the ball? - is it a code word . . . does Woody scream "DELTA, DELTA, ZULU, DELTA" to get JJ the ball? - does he do hand signals like a 3rd base coach in baseball? - does he do the "Stanky Leg" when he wants the ball in JJ's hands? - or does he point feverously toward JJ, stomp his feet, and say "HIM . . GET HIM THE DAMN BALL"? I'll have to watch what he does the next time I'm at a Hawks game ( probably the Monday MLK day game vs OKC )

I wanna trade Smoove for Zach Randolph and JJ for Shane Battier. LOL @ Crawford, trying to prevent the blowout with his ability to draw fouls off his jumper. His ability to draw fouls off of extremely long jumpers is almost amazing. We need to cut this to at least 7 by the end of the quarter, to have a shot at the end. I predict a 29 - 17 3rd quarter in our favor to cut the lead to 5.

LOL . . and I promise that I won't even try to talk people off the edge of the cliff tonight thru Wednesday. I'll let them FIRE WOODY, trade JJ and Marvin, dog Horford and Smooove, cuss at Crawford, and talk about how Teague should start. The other silver lining is that Teague will get to play the entire 4th qtr tonight. Maybe hell get 13 pts and 6 assts.

Marvin will save us . . . lol. Great start so far.