TheNorthCydeRises

Great statement highlighted in red. That seems to be what is going on. Being a playoff team, all of a sudden, isn't good enough for some people now. We now have to be a championship caliber team . . in November. And if we don't beat these teams now, all is lost for the season? Nah. Last season, we beat the Magic in Orlando in November. Ever since then, that team has had our number.

Atlanta fans have proven time and time again that they'll support very good teams . . or come out to see a superstar . . but they won't support a team, simply because it's THEIR TEAM. Those types of fans are usually called bandwagon fans. It doesn't describe people like you, or some of the other fans whose been watching this team through thick and thin. But it does describe the fan that only looks forward to seeing the Hawks vs the big name teams . . mainly because they want to see the star player of that big name team, and not the Hawks. Funny thing though, they seem to always cheer for the Hawks by the 4th quarter, mainly because the die hard fans are cheering for them. Everybody has an opinion about the Orlando collapse. We've seen it too many times before to not have an opinion on it. But you have to look at the big picture as well. This is a long season. Wins or losses vs the big name teams, may not even matter, if we can't take care of the teams that we should beat on a nightly basis. It's those losses that will keep us from reaching 50 wins, not the losses vs Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando. In the grand scheme of things, if we'd beaten Orlando, but lost to Philly, we'd be in the same situation. We'd be 12 - 4, tops in the East. But instead of being elated about the Orlando win, and that supposedly giving us confidence, we'd be complaining about laying an egg to a then 5 - 10 Philadelphia team missing 3 starters. We got Toronto coming in on Wednesday night. That game is just as important as the Orlando game. They're a team that is chasing us from behind. They're looking to take our spot. So if we can go out and handle them, it'll be a decent win. But in the NBA, you play so many games, that you can't get too high or too low on individual wins. The main thing in this league, is avoiding the losing streaks. The Hawks got blown out in preseason, after starting 7 - 0 . . people predicted doom and gloom . . . Hawks go out and win first 2 games Hawks collapse in LA . . people predicted doom and gloom . . Hawks go out and beat Portland @ Portland the next game Hawks lose to the Bobcats in Charlotte . . people predicted doom and gloom . . Hawks go out and win 7 straight games Hawks lose 2 straight games, including blowing the Orlando game . . people freak out a little over the loss . . Hawks go to Philly and win. This team is mentally tough. Just because the fans aren't convinced that they're real good, doesn't mean that the team doesn't believe that they're real good. I guess the Hawks need to be 24 - 7 by Jan 1st, to finally convince people. Then again, we play Cleveland the last 2 games of the year (2009). So if we lose those 2 games, but still have the same record, I guess the despair will come back to the board. Hawks fans shouldn't even be thinking about "championship", until March or April ( if we're in a legit position to get one of the top 2 seeds in the East ).

I know it's not confined to Atlanta . . but I can definitely say that, in my opinion, it is worse here, than on most other message boards with fans of winning teams. I've never seen a segment of a fan base so filled with doom and gloom, that's winning as many games as we are, as with what you see here, and especially on the AJC blogs. See, I guess I come from a different perspective, because I'm not only an Atlanta Hawk fan . . I'm a Cincinnati Bengals fan as well. So while last week's lost @ Oakland was horrible, the Bengals are still 7 - 3. I think that team has been 7 - 3 twice in the past 20 seasons. TWICE. So I'm pretty damn happy that my football team is leading the division by a game, and has control of its own destiny to get that #2 seed in the AFC. Now if I'd take the mentality of some of our fans, I should be pizzed that we didn't beat Oakland, which proves that we're simply a pretender team, and that we need to fire Marvin Lewis . . and trade Chad Johnson . . and cuss out Carson Palmer, for losing to such a pathetic team like the Raiders. There are Bengal fans who feel like that. But they are far and few between. They know that the Bengals may not be able to get to the Super Bowl, but we're going to be right there in the mix ( hopefully ) when playoff time comes around. I guess me, and some of the others on this site are just different. The only thing the Orlando loss said to me, is that we have a problem handling Orlando. It doesn't lessen my faith in this team one bit, just because the fan base felt embarrassed by a national TV loss. It doesn't reduce the fact that this team ( if it stays relatively healthy ), should win 50+ games this season. Keep in mind, this was the sentiment when the Magic blew us out in a PRESEASON game . . that the sky was going to fall on the Hawks. Then we win 11 out of 14, and people weren't even mentioning the preseason loss. So we turn around, and lay another egg against the same team, and I'm supposed to believe that this team is supposed to be so devastated, that they won't be able to reach their win total of last year . . . because of this loss? Nah. I don't believe that for one bit. The NBA season is way too long to let one loss affect a season like that. Woody and these players are way too mentally tough to let that loss affect them like that. And if we lost fans because of that game, you know what? So be it. This team has done more than enough the past 2+ years ( especially at home . . by posting a 63 - 27 home record since the 07 - 08 season . . that's a 70% winning percentage at home ) If the fan base can only see games vs Orlando as important, but not realize that victories vs Philly on the road are just as important ( because those were the types of games we lost in the past ), then there's nothing more I can say. I'll just let some of these guys stress out, while me and the others enjoy the run we're on.

Here are my top 5 for Coach of the Year . . as of Thanksgiving Weekend: 1) Mike Woodson - ATL 2) Rick Carlisle - DAL 3) Alvin Gentry - PHX 4) Stan Van Gundy - ORL 5) Phil Jackson - LAL

You're probably right on that. But at least those teams and fan bases are used to winning, and pretty much expect their team to play at a high level every night. Some Laker fans are probably not happy at all about them being 11 - 3, which sounds crazy, but is probably true. Our fans, however, should be giddy as hell for being 12 - 4, with a shot of being 13 - 4 by Sunday night. All those years of losing, and some of our fans just can't get the complaining out of their system and enjoy the ride. The Blazers are a good team. I call them our "twin brother" team in the West. But I watched the Blazers - Grizzlies game last night, and Portland looked a lot like we did in the first half of that game. Memphis . . I repeat . . Memphis at one point went on a 21 - 0 run, which they extended to a 33 - 4 run. 33 - 4 run . . . lol. That team hadn't lost at home since we beat them there, but Memphis came in and straight up punked them. Interesting read right here. http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/11/28/1176591/game-18-recap-blazers-96-memphis It's just the nature of the NBA. You can't win every game. And sometimes, you'll look really bad in losing.

I re-watched that game, especially the 3rd quarter. I don't know man . . we got some pretty wide open looks in that quarter. In fact, we made 4 of our first 5 shots in that quarter. But the obvious thing that Orlando started to do, is get Dwight the ball. And he immeadiately tried to attack the basket instead of deferring to the shooters. The Hawks did try to attack Howard, but he was either blocking or altering every shot in the lane, most notably the shots by JJ and Smoove. Here is the 3rd quarter game log of that game. Hawks makes will be in red . . misses will be in black . . Orlando makes will be in blue: 11:38 39-53 Joe Johnson makes 4-foot jumper 11:22 Dwight Howard makes 4-foot running jumper 41-53 11:22 41-53 Marvin Williams shooting foul (Dwight Howard draws the foul) 11:22 Dwight Howard makes free throw 1 of 1 42-53 11:02 42-55 Mike Bibby makes 17-foot jumper (Josh Smith assists) 10:47 Dwight Howard makes driving layup 44-55 10:27 44-57 Marvin Williams makes 19-foot jumper 10:03 Rashard Lewis makes 12-foot two point shot 46-57 9:41 46-57 Al Horford lost ball (Dwight Howard steals) 9:30 Mickael Pietrus misses 22-foot jumper 46-57 9:30 Orlando defensive rebound 46-57 9:11 46-57 Josh Smith misses driving layup 9:10 Vince Carter defensive rebound 46-57 9:02 Rashard Lewis misses driving layup 46-57 9:00 Mickael Pietrus offensive rebound 46-57 8:53 Rashard Lewis makes 23-foot three point jumper (Jason Williams assists) 49-57 8:34 49-57 Joe Johnson bad pass (Mickael Pietrus steals) 8:26 Mickael Pietrus misses 27-foot three point jumper 49-57 8:25 Vince Carter makes tip shot 51-57 8:25 Vince Carter offensive rebound 51-57 8:25 Atlanta full timeout 8:11 51-60 Joe Johnson makes 24-foot three point jumper (Mike Bibby assists) 7:56 Rashard Lewis misses 26-foot three point jumper 51-60 7:52 Dwight Howard makes two point shot 53-60 7:52 Dwight Howard offensive rebound 53-60 7:30 53-60 Mike Bibby misses 20-foot jumper 7:28 Dwight Howard defensive rebound 53-60 7:24 Jason Williams misses 26-foot three point jumper 53-60 7:22 53-60 Josh Smith defensive rebound 7:13 53-60 Josh Smith misses 7-foot two point shot 7:11 Rashard Lewis defensive rebound 53-60 6:48 Rashard Lewis misses driving layup 53-60 6:45 Dwight Howard makes two point shot 55-60 6:45 Dwight Howard offensive rebound 55-60 6:28 55-60 Mike Bibby misses 25-foot three point jumper 6:26 Dwight Howard defensive rebound 55-60 6:05 Al Horford blocks Dwight Howard's 6-foot two point shot 55-60 6:03 55-60 Al Horford defensive rebound 5:43 55-60 Joe Johnson misses 4-foot two point shot 5:41 Dwight Howard defensive rebound 55-60 5:35 Vince Carter misses 16-foot two point shot 55-60 5:33 55-60 Josh Smith defensive rebound 5:13 55-60 Al Horford misses 8-foot two point shot 5:11 Vince Carter defensive rebound 55-60 4:56 55-60 Al Horford shooting foul (Dwight Howard draws the foul) 4:56 55-60 Jamal Crawford enters the game for Marvin Williams 4:56 Dwight Howard misses free throw 1 of 2 55-60 4:56 Orlando offensive rebound 55-60 4:56 Dwight Howard makes free throw 2 of 2 56-60 4:31 56-60 Joe Johnson misses driving layup 4:31 56-60 Joe Johnson offensive rebound 4:31 Mickael Pietrus personal foul (Joe Johnson draws the foul) 56-60 4:22 56-60 Joe Johnson misses 5-foot jumper 4:20 Vince Carter defensive rebound 56-60 4:18 Vince Carter lost ball (Joe Johnson steals) 56-60 4:15 56-60 Joe Johnson misses 23-foot three point jumper 4:11 Mickael Pietrus defensive rebound 56-60 4:03 Mickael Pietrus makes 24-foot three point jumper (Vince Carter assists) 59-60 3:41 59-60 Jamal Crawford misses 23-foot three point jumper 3:39 Rashard Lewis defensive rebound 59-60 3:23 Dwight Howard misses layup 59-60 3:21 Dwight Howard offensive rebound 59-60 3:18 Dwight Howard misses layup 59-60 3:18 59-60 Josh Smith defensive rebound 3:18 Dwight Howard technical foul (1st technical foul) 59-60 3:18 59-61 Jamal Crawford makes technical free throw 3:18 59-61 Maurice Evans enters the game for Mike Bibby 3:06 59-61 Jamal Crawford misses 19-foot jumper 3:04 Rashard Lewis defensive rebound 59-61 2:44 Rashard Lewis makes 4-foot two point shot 61-61 2:26 61-63 Josh Smith makes driving layup 2:26 Rashard Lewis shooting foul (Josh Smith draws the foul) 61-63 2:26 Orlando full timeout 2:26 61-63 Zaza Pachulia enters the game for Al Horford 2:26 61-63 Marvin Williams enters the game for Joe Johnson 2:26 61-63 Josh Smith misses free throw 1 of 1 2:25 Vince Carter defensive rebound 61-63 2:09 Vince Carter makes driving layup 63-63 2:09 63-63 Maurice Evans shooting foul (Vince Carter draws the foul) 2:09 Vince Carter makes free throw 1 of 1 64-63 1:49 64-63 Marvin Williams misses 11-foot two point shot 1:47 Vince Carter defensive rebound 64-63 1:38 64-63 Zaza Pachulia personal foul (Dwight Howard draws the foul) 1:38 J.J. Redick enters the game for Mickael Pietrus 64-63 1:28 Rashard Lewis misses driving layup 64-63 1:27 Rashard Lewis offensive rebound 64-63 1:23 Rashard Lewis misses 16-foot jumper 64-63 1:22 64-63 Maurice Evans defensive rebound 1:16 64-63 Jamal Crawford discontinue dribble 1:16 Anthony Johnson enters the game for Jason Williams 64-63 0:59 J.J. Redick makes 16-foot jumper 66-63 0:43 66-63 Josh Smith misses 9-foot hook shot 0:41 Vince Carter defensive rebound 66-63 0:40 66-63 Maurice Evans shooting foul (J.J. Redick draws the foul) 0:40 J.J. Redick misses free throw 1 of 2 66-63 0:40 Orlando offensive rebound 66-63 0:40 66-63 Joe Johnson enters the game for Maurice Evans 0:40 Matt Barnes enters the game for Vince Carter 66-63 0:40 J.J. Redick makes free throw 2 of 2 67-63 0:20 67-65 Joe Johnson makes driving layup 0:02 J.J. Redick misses 24-foot three point jumper 67-65 0:01 67-65 Josh Smith defensive rebound 0:00 67-65 Josh Smith misses 55-foot three point jumper 0:00 67-65 Atlanta offensive rebound end 3rd quarter There is no doubt that there was a lot of one on one play by JJ, Smoove, and Crawford during that quarter, especially during the time in which the jumpers weren't falling and Orlando was about to take the lead. On the flip side, the shots they were taking and missing, were the shots that they normally make. As hot as Bibby was during the Sixer game last night, he was really cold in the Orlando game, for the most part. JJ's floater wasn't falling, when he got into the lane. And if we're in the halfcourt offense, Smith's effectiveness is reduced on the offensive end. With Howard in the lane, he missed a ton of point blank shots. And don't even get me started on Crawford's quick long jumpshots without a pass, even though he was making those same exact shots last night. Orlando didn't even play that well in the quarter, yet, we couldn't hold the lead because of a bunch of missed shots, and some sloppy ball handling. Oh . . and they also grabbed 7 of their 13 offensive rebounds in that quarter ( not including the rebounds off missed FTs that they list ). Overall, they outrebounded us 19 - 7. LOL. . they had as many offensive rebounds, as we had total rebounds that quarter. Most important for the Hawks . . only 2 FT attempts ( and one of those was off of the Dwight technical foul ) . . and only 7 for the game. When you see those types of numbers, it either means that a team is taking a lot of jumpshots, or they're not getting any calls. And the 4th quarter was just ridiculous. It was the same cold shooting by the Hawks, coupled with Anthony Johnson show. We make the adjustment to try to corral Howard, and then "Dad" kills us, by scoring 15 in the quarter. Ridiculous. I can understand blaming the coach when it comes to personnel moves, or strategy. But just like in that Laker game, we just had a complete meltdown in the 3rd quarter, that continued into the 4th. When your star players try to single-handedly try to get you back into the game, even when they're ice cold, there's not much you can do if they're not making shots. If you pull them out, the team still suffers, because no one else on the squad can create their own shot. So what strategy moves could Woody have done, outside of telling them to rebound, play defense, and move the ball around a little more? Even with the ball movement, that still doesn't discount the fact that after the 8 minute mark in the 3rd, guys were simply missing wide open jumpshots. EVERYBODY was missing shots. But against the Sixers, Bibby was red hot, Crawford started cold but heated up tremendously, and Josh Smith was able to do his thing offensively by getting to the rim ( and hitting a few jumpers ). Otherwise, that team still played the same way as they always played. These are your Atlanta Hawks . . . love them or hate them.

Great point. But I guess people would want Crawford leading this team, as long as we stay under the luxury tax. We run the risk of becoming like Golden St without Baron Davis . . or the Clippers without Elton Brand ( both who went into decline after they played around with not giving their best player a contract that would make them happy ). Lose JJ, and Crawford becomes "the man". Then, when he can't do it, we're signing a bunch of good, but journeymen players, trying to compensate for the loss of JJ. JJ may not be a MAX contract player, but teams around the league love that dude. And all of the major star players love him too. So we might as well get into the mindset that we're going to have to possibly pay whatever the market value sets for JJ. If we lose JJ, and JJ teams up with Lebron or Wade . . or even Bosh or Amare . . we're screwed. We'd definitely not have a chance of winning anything then.

At least this is an honest answer. The success of the team does not override the fact that people just simply hate Woody. We could be 27 - 8, and this same sentiment will still be there. And the difference in Collins and Woody, is that Collins' best player didn't like him as a coach. JJ, on the other hand, has little problem with Woody. Collins was fired to satisfy Jordan, not because he was doing a bad job.

As I said in the chatroom last night in the 1st half . . if this was the Hawks teams of years past, the Philly game would've been an AUTOMATIC LOSS. We would've definitely find a way to lose that game. This team may not can beat Orlando, but they're not the "same ol Hawks". I wonder if by seeing the Bobcats whip up on Cleveland in Charlotte, and Memphis dominate the Blazers in Portland last night, shows people how other "good teams" can also lose bad games.

It's strange, isn't it? Dol, that's why I say what I say on this board. Someone has to counteract all of the extreme reaction and paranoia on this board. When we win, we're this championship caliber team in which all credit goes to the players. When we lose, we're the worst team in the league in which all blame goes to the coach. At 12 - 4, people should be jumping for joy around here. But some of these guys are so used to complaining about everything so much, that they can't even enjoy the fact that we're one of the top teams in the NBA. Our losses are against - the Lakers ( huge athletic frontline + best player in NBA ), - the Magic ( dominant defensive center + 3pt shooters all over the place ), - the Bobcats ( after having to travel from the extreme west coast to the east coast to play them ) - and to the Hornets ( in what was simply a bad loss ). We have a .750 winning percentage, which would put us on pace to win 62 games ( easily the best in franchise history ), and people STILL aren't happy? LOL Seriously . . . what's the problem?

Good analyis. I think what we're facing against Orlando, comes down to a matchup problem. You donmt want their gunners to get wide open looks, because they can quickly blow you out if they're knocking down shots. But on the flipside, Dwight can dominate a game if he's assertive in attacking the basket. For a team like us, we can't really afford Horford and especially Josh to be in foul trouble, so I guess that's why we double Howard every chance we get, and force someone else to beat us. Zaza is usually good in banging against Dwight, but even he wasn't effective in that game. I think why Orlando fell behind by so much, is because Dwight wasn't attacking, and freely passing the ball out to all those gunners, who weren't making anything. I think Carter was 4 - 12 FG in the first half, while Dwight only had 3 FG attempts. In the 2nd half, it was all Dwight on both ends on the floor, like you said. I agree with you in the fact that we may not have a major problem with any other team in the league. But Orlando right now is our kryptonite. If we would've beat Orlando, tonight's game was the one I expected a letdown in. But we bounced back and got a nice win on the road against Philly. So what does that make us? 12 - 4 . . right with the Magic . . and still with one of the best records in the NBA. Contrary to popular belief, the sky does not fall because the Magic takes us out back and beats us up. All it means is that we can't beat the Magic up . . and probably the Lakers ( because they present the same type of matchup problems ). But we can beat everyone else up.

Let me take that back. Jason Collins isn't garbage, he's more like a LANDFILL. Damn, I knew he was horrible, but not THAT HORRIBLE. And people want this dude to get time every night? LOL . . give me Garret Siler, before Collins. If our main guys can't get it done on a given night, we're not going to win. Plain and simple.

And this is specifically targeted to all of you who feel that this team isn't worth watching, simply because we melt down against the "elite" teams. Seriously . . just save yourself some torment, and quit watching the Hawks. I know people are frustrated by last night's epic meltdown, but that's simply the way basketball goes sometimes. Ask Cleveland fans when they started 0 - 2. After about the 8 minute mark in the 3rd qtr, this team simply couldn't make a shot. This wasn't like the Laker collapse, in which the Lakers turned up the intensity, and basically punked the whole team. Last night was simply about the Hawks missing shots . . plain and simple. That . . and "Dad" scoring 15 4th quarter points. But to all of you who are going to continue to cry every time we don't beat an elite team, and use that as your justification to not go to games, or to not support the team, you should simply turn in your Hawks ticket, and follow another team. Seriously. I'm not saying that you shouldn't be pissed at last night. You should. But you knew the deal with this team before the season started. We've overcome every hurdle, except this one. That DOES make us a good team, but maybe not a great team. Remember folks . . we won 37 games a mere 2 years ago. 37. So don't act like a Hawk team that is on its way to winning 50+ games, and probably winning 30+ games at home, isn't worth watching. And if the only time you cn get jacked up about a game, is when we play the big boys, then that's another issue in itself. Cry about this loss if you want, but this team has to immeadiately bounce back and play 2 road games against Philly and Detroit within the next 3 days. Win those 2 games, and we finish a brutal October/November stretch with a 13 - 4 record . . . which will still be one of the best records in the league. Even a 12 - 5 record would be ahead of everyone's expectations before the season started. But if a loss like this is going to have you question your fandom, just save yourself the grief. Turn in your Hawks bandwagon ticket right now. Do yourself a favor and don't torment yourself any longer.

Jason Collins Is GARBAGE. He's always been garbage. And a guy like Dwight Howard would've eaten him alive. If the guy was halfway decent, why didn't any other team even try to pick him up? We signed that dude pretty late in the free agency summer season. The dude is garbage. But if you really want to believe that he may have made a difference in last night's game, go knock yourself out.

He's the ultimate streak shooter. This is where I DO blame Woody. Because he is in charge of player rotations. I don't fault him for not playing Teague, but I do fault him for leaving a cold Jamal in the game. That dude will absolutely kill you when he's ice cold, because he knows that he can get a shot off anytime he wants. Good shot . . bad shot . . it doesn't matter with Jamal.

Excellent article. It's nice to see arricles like this that give an inside look at what the coach, GM, and players think about the progression of the Hawks. The ASG bet not mess this up. If we're near the top of the division at the All-Star break, and they feel that they won't be able to re-sign JJ, they should NOT trade him, just to get "something" back in return. They cannot deprive this fan base ( the ones who have been loyal during the "dark ages" of the Hawks ), of possibly the best season in Hawks history. You let this thing ride out.

And all of this simply makes my point about Teague. If Teague plays well during the season, and Woody starts to trust him more and more, he won't get credit for it anyway. If anything, people on here will give credit to JJ and Bibby, before they do Woody. Woody is merely a bobble head doll on the Hawks, that does nothing but simply move his head, in most people's eyes. It's just the way Hawksquawk ( and the AJC blogs) are. It's hilarious to me. Happy Thanksgiving . . . and go Hawks. Get us a win tonight.

Yeah I agree GM. They tried to take us out early with that schedule. Me personally, I was hoping that we'd finish with a 10 - 7 . . 11 - 6 record to end the month. Now, we have a legit shot to be 13 - 4 going into December. But yeah I agree that Stern tried to take us out. November was meant to wound us severely, and January was meant to finish us off. In January, we have: - 3 games vs Boston ( something I've never seen an NBA team do . . play somebody 3 times in a month ) - 2 games vs Orlando - and we also play Phoenix and San Antonio. But this is what we were potentially going up against in November. I'll post the description, plus what our record is/was vs those teams so far, in that description. Check out our October/November schedule, which consists of 17 games: - we play 12 games out of 17 against 2008 playoff teams ( 10 teams, including Portland, who we played twice . .. and the next 3 games are against teams that made 2008 playoffs ) . . . RECORD: 7 - 2 - 9 road games . . . RECORD: 4 - 3 - play arguably the top 3 teams in the league ( ORL, LAL, BOS ) . . . RECORD: 1 - 1 - play 5 "back to back" games ( Orlando tomorrow night and Philly Friday night is the last back to back ). . . RECORD: 6 - 2 - play in 2 consecutive back to back games in a 5 day stretch ( yeah . . 4 games in 5 days ), in which were made to travel all the way cross country to start the 1st game of the 2nd back to back ( @ POR, @ SAC . . fly to east on day off . . @ CHA, DEN ( home ) . . .RECORD: 3 - 1 They tried to get us forreal. GOOD JOB HAWKS!!

But isn't this what other coaches do? Get a player, play him if he's good . . and if he plays well, receive credit for developing/molding him into a good player? That's what happens, right. And let's say you're right about D'Antoni developing JJ. Does that mean that Nellie developed Steve Nash? This has to be true, if D'Antoni developed JJ. So when Nash wins multiple MVP awards, is that because of Nellie's influence on his game, or D'Antoni's system giving Nash full control of the team? And when JJ goes to 3 consecutive All-Star games, is that because of D'Antoni's influence on his game, or Woody trusting JJ to be Lebron-lite, running the offense almost solely through JJ? To me, the answer is both . . to each scenario. But you guys want it one way, without giving credit to the other way. That's not reality. Reality, is that most everyone around the league thought we overpaid to bring JJ here, including one of our owners. Reality is that everyone knew that JJ was a good player, but not a player that could be a multiple All-Star, and definitely not a player that could be the #1 guy on a winning team. Without Woody pretty much treating JJ like he was Lebron or Wade, he would not be the player that he is today. He wouldn't have coaches gameplanning to stop him. He'd merely be a great spot-up shooter who occasionally drove to the hole, like he did most of his time in Phoenix. To deny that Woody had a significant influence in JJ transforming to good player, to top 15 player, is simply not giving Woody any credit whatsoever. At least you will concede on Josh Smith, which is pretty much a no-brainer.

I am PISSED that I have to miss this game tomorrow night. I was definitely going to be there, until about a week ago. I'm so used to that 4 - 4.5 hour drive to ATL, that it isn't even funny. I treat that drive like a Tour de France time trial. And for you people coming from the suburbs north of Atlanta . . . if you want to avoid heavy traffic, get off on I-75 at the Northside Dr exit, and go all the way into ATL until you reach Marietta St. Take that left on Marietta St, which will lead you straight to the CNN Center. There will be plenty of places to park in parking lots or in hotel parking garages for $5 - $15. I have no problem getting to the Arena, when I travel this route. And it definitely helps when I'm running late. As for Barkley's comment . . . keep telling the truth. The Metro Atlanta Hawk fans that love this team, definitely need to show up tomorrow night.

Because they're the 3rd largest TV market in the country, and because they did well against Boston last year. And because of Derrick Rose.

LOL . . and people wonder why JJ plays like he does and why Woody developed ISO JJ. Lmao . . look at that list of guards he had to play with. Damn.

As for the guards Woody has had to work with . . lol . . man please. These are the guards Woody had to work with in the 5 1/4 years he's been the Coach of the Hawks: - Kenny Anderson ( and not the Georgia Tech version either ) - Jon Barry - Tony Delk - Royal Ivey ( who we kept for 3 years ) - Anthony Grundy - Joe Johnson - Salim Stoudamire - Ceedric Bozeman ( lol . . this dude started at PG once ) - Speedy Claxton - Anthony Johnson - Jeremy Richardson ( who Woody called a play for at the end of a game to win it . . but JR missed the wide open shot ) - Mike Bibby - Acie Law - Mario West - Thomas Gardner - Mo Evans - Flip Murray - Jamal Crawford - Jeff Teague Man please. LOL @ some of the names on that list. And the only 1st round PGs the Hawks drafted, that are on that list, are Acie and Jeff. Ish . . I can even say that Woody developed BOTH Tyronn Lue and Flip Murray. Before Lue got to the Hawks, his most notable NBA achievement was being the DEFENSIVE SPECIALIST who guarded Iverson in the 2000 NBA Finals . . who will be forever immortalized as the guy Iverson made fall to the floor, shot a 3, hit it, and then stepped over him like he was road kill. ( If I were on my laptop, I'd post the youtube link to that. ) 6 years later, Lue is averaging double figure points for the Hawks, and Woody is trusting him to take game-wnning shots. And look at Flip. Flip was probably on his way overseas, before the Hawks picked him up. He comes in and IMMEADIATELY shows that he's better than Acie, which prompted Woody to eventually treat Flip like he was Ben Gordon or somebody, dramatically raising his importance level to the team. Flip then responds with the best NBA season he's ever had. But because Woody didn't develop those other aging bums, and those 2nd round and undrafted combo guards, Woody doesn't develop guards? And people have STILL failed the answer to my question: Why do other coaches get credit for developing their young and/or star players, but Woody can't get ANY CREDIT for the development of Joe Johnson and Josh Smith?

And that can be achieved at a later date, if need be. Teague ( if we want to keep him that long ) is under contract for four years. When you have a proven starting PG like Mike Bibby, and a combo guard like Jamal Crawford, it is not imperative that Teague gets developed in year 1. Now if an injury happens, then he has to play. If Bibby can't go Thursday night, Teague will at least get 10 - 15 minutes of PT. It'll be different if Teague was the immeadiate backup PG to Bibby. But right now, that position is held by Crawford. So Teague is technically the 9th/10th man on the team, and the 3rd PG. It's the same situaton that Mo Evans is in. With Crawford being able to play the 2, and JJ able to play the 3, Evans is essentially the 3rd SG and SF. The main differences with Mo is that he can play 2 positions . . and he's proven in the past that he can be trusted somewhat ( even though he's not doing anything in the past 2 weeks or so ). That gives him a chance to play a little more than Teague.

So let me ask you this? Why do all of those other coaches get credit for developing their players, but Woody can't get credit for developing the two best players on this team . . . Joe Johnson and Josh Smith? According to Jay Bilas on draft night, Josh Smith was going to be a bust. According to a lot of NBA experts, Joe Johnson could NEVER be a #1 scoring option for a successful team. Yet, both of those things have been proven untrue . . . with Woody being the coach of both of those players. So why can't Woody get any credit . . MAJOR CREDIT . . for the development of JJ and Smoove?