TheNorthCydeRises

Right. I mean, who would even dream of using "timid" Boris Diaw at center? And even that move was out of desperation, because Amare was hurt and they needed someone with a little size to play the position. So D'Antoni tried Boris out at center, and found that the Suns could be a very effective offensive ballclub, by instructing Diaw to beat people off the dribble. But what really made that work, was Shawn Marion's rebounding ability. So I'm definitely not faulting Woody for misusing Diaw, because he didn't play him at center. LOL . . he played him at every position BUT center, and he still was way too timid on offense. As for Teague, he's finishing at a much worse % on his FGs at the rim, than Acie did. According to NBA hotspots data, Acie shot 51.4% on his shots around the rim in his rookie year ( which is a little below average for most PGs ). As of right now, Teague is shooting 37.9% from that same area ( which is absolutely horrible ). Of course, Teague has all year to improve that percentage. But the fact that even in limited time, that Teague is shooting that low from point blank range, is troubling. Big time troubling. That's why I think JJ and Bibby are trying to encourage him to take mid-range jumpers. If he's having trouble finishing around the rim, he can use his quickness to create enough space to shoot 10 - 18 foot jumpers ( ala how Deron Williams does ). That'll make him a more effective player, until he learns just how to finish at the rim. In the preseason, he was drawing a lot of fouls ( ironically, mainly with replacement NBA refs ). But now that the real refs are back, he may not get those preseason calls . . . especially being a rookie.

So in other words, they're doing more of what Woody constantly tells them to do. Defense + rebounding = creation of fast break points for quick offense.

Problem is, we're not going to be able to afford Rudy. He'll command more money than Marvin did, out on the open market. He's easily an 8.5 - 10 mill a year player. Imagine this . . .the Knicks convincing LeBron to leave Cleveland to come to NY. But instead of splurging on another max level player, they settle for a complimentary player like Rudy. G - Robinson ( I know Duhon is the starter, but he shouldn't be starting ) G - Rudy F - Lebron F - Harrington F - Lee With a guy like Lebron on the team, that would be a pretty decent squad to put around him, from an offensive standpoint.

Yep . . . because Boston made us look like a YMCA team about 2 weeks ago . . . Oh wait . . . . ( thinking )

38% of Crawford's shots are 3 pointers. When he's taken the most threes on the team, and is shooting less than 30% from three, that ish is unacceptable. Crawford is a SCORER, not a SHOOTER . . . there's a big difference in the two.

If our bench is any good ( meaning Crawford and Teague ) we shouldn't miss Bibby much. I thought you guys had confidence in Crawford and Teague?

In fairness though, Acie had good preseasons too. I remember Acie's first home game vs Dallas. He looked damn good in the limited minutes he played. In fact, Acie would probably be our PG right now, if the kid didn't keep getting hurt. People want to say that Woody didn't give Acie a chance here, but that's not true. Acie got decent minutes in his rookie year, even in the first month of his rookie year. By mid-November, he was starting ( remember the Charlotte game in which he had 7 assists in the first half, but gets hurt in that game? ). His injuries opened the door for AJ to take his job. Then it got to the point in which Acie stopped being an effective PG off the bench, which saw a drastic reduction in his playing time. When you're a bench player, you have to be able to come in a game and have an impact. Near the end Acie just wasn't doing that on a nightly basis. The same goes for Shelden. In his case, he was being outplayed by Solo, which led to a drastic reduction in minutes.

Some of you better look around the league, and see what "winning teams" actually do to keep themselves winners. - Lakers: What young player has developed under Phil Jackson. Farmar? . Nope. Walton? . . nope. Adam Morrison? . . nope. Only Bynum has developed under Phil . . and that took 4 years. The core of the Lakers are made up of veteran players who all have experience in being "the man" on a team ( Bryant, Odom, Gasol, Artest ) - Celtics: What young player has developed under Doc Rivers? Rondo? . . definitely, but only after the talent around him was greatly upgraded. House? . . no, he's the same one-dimensional player. Gearld Green? . . .lol, I think he's out the league now. Al Jefferson? . . definitely, but they traded him for the all around skills and team leadership of KG. Big Baby? . . yes. But like the Lakers, the core of the Celtics are made up of players who have experience in being "the man" on a team. ( Pierce, Garnett, Allen, Rasheed Wallace ) - Cavaliers: What young player has devloped under Mike Brown? Varejao? . . nope, he's the same player. Daniel Gibson? . . he had that one good year, and has regressed. Delonte West? . . I'll say slightly yes. Mo Williams? . . I'll say yes. The Cavs do have the luxury of having the most versatile player in the league, who is arguably the best in the league. - Magic: What young players has Stan Van Gundy developed? JJ Redick? . . it took 3.5 years of JJ being totally useless, but yes. Nelson? . . . definitely. Courtney Lee? . . yes, but they traded him for a major upgrade in Vince Carter. So I guess Stan is the man, when it comes to developing young players, even though they have three high priced players on the squad ( Carter, Lewis, Howard ) The fact is that when you're a winning team, you're usually going to be filled with veteran players, and more than likely, you're not going to have a small payroll. Championships cost money, most of the time. And it's contradictory to say that Woody is doing a great job, but has plateaued . . .at 11 - 3 . . which is our best start in 13 years. So far, a Hawk team under Woody hasn't failed to improve on the season before. And this season looks to be no different. But he's plateued? How? In what way? Not you personally, but I think some people are afraid that this team may do really well under Woody, forcing Sund to re-sign him. Barring an NBA title, they'll always find a reason to dislike him, and wanting him gone. It's amazing to see the coaches being tossed around to replace Woody. - Byron Scott: I think he's a decent coach. But it doesn't look good for him when he can't win with Chris Paul playing out of his mind . . but the Hornets GM comes down, and coaches a Paul-less team to 2 wins over the best team in the East and the West ( Phoenix ) - Mike Fratello: I have nothing against Mike, but it's not like he's one of the top minds in the NBA. Quick . . has Mike ever coached a team to a conference final? Some of you touting Fratello may want to look that up. - Avery Johnson: Definitely a good coach in my opinion. But don't forget, he was the coach of the Mavs . . the #1 seeded Mavs back in 07 . . when they got embarassed by the #8 seed Golden St. Warriors in the 1st round of the playoffs. That's part of the reason why he doesn't have a job now. That, and the fact that he probably wants a ton of money to coach again.

Tell the kid to play some defense. Steal a ball and take it the length of the court for a lay-up. Make life tough for the opposing PG. Since he can jump, swoop in and get a few rebounds. Do SOMETHING. I want to see him positivelty affect a game in those 4 - 7 minutes he plays in the 1st half. And yes, players can come in and immeadiately impact a game. If he can't make a lay-up, at least do his best Mario West impression.

You gotta love this board. The fact is that Woody gets no credit in the development of the players we have currently. So what makes any of you think he'll get credit for the development of Teague? Very few people give Woody credit for the development of JJ, by instilling a supersar mindset in him and giving him superstar responsibilities. It was very few people that thought he'd be effective as the #1 option on a team. But under Woody, he not only is the Hawks scoring leader, he's one of the assist leaders as well. Does he get credit for the development of Josh Smith? Of course not. But it was Woody that put him at the 4 once Harrington left ( even though you had people swearing up and down that he should play SF ). It was Woody who put the ball in his hands in the high post, and encouraged him to start taking people off the dribble to get his points. And while he could've severely limited what Smoove did as a player, he let him play free, which kept his mind in the game on most nights. So if Teague did start to play well, Woody wouldn't get any credit anyway. He never gets credit for anything positive concerning the Hawks.

LMAO . . . and so it begins. Typical Hawksquawk Knee-Jerk Reaction Post ( THKJRP )

LOL . . wishful thinking. Hope Teague can hold the fort if he comes in the game later.

I'm not watching the game, but following the box score on yahoo. I figured something was up with Bibby, with him not coming back in the game in the 2nd qtr. So if I'm Woody, I'd seriously think about starting Teague in the 2nd half. Play him with the regular starters, to keep Crawford in his role as scorer in the middle third of the half, and to lessen the burden off of Teague, by playing him with JJ & Co. He didn't hurt us to end the first half. I'd be shocked if Woody didn't go with Crawford to start the half though. This will be interesting to see how this half turns out.

Gotta give some credit to Woody for that. I think he's done an excellent job in managing when and when not to play Marvin in the 4th quarter. If Crawford has it going, he's sticking with Crawford. If not, he's going with Marvin, regardless of how he's shooting. Also, the decision to play Marvin more at the 4 at times, instead of Joe Smith, has helped in that regard as well. Marvin is definitely a more active player on the boards and around the rim, when he plays the 4.

Exactly. And he scored in just about every way possible, including rebounding a miss in mid air, and dunking it. When has he ever done that? Philips Arena should start playing the "Welcome Back Kotter" theme song for him, every time he makes a shot in the Orlando Thanksgiving night game.

The people wanting all these minutes for Teague, isn't seeing the big picture. All they see, is how great he played in the 4th quarter of the Laker blowout, and trying to lobby for Teague playing more based on that. It's not that simple folks. I said a week or 2 ago, that if Teague wants to play more, he has to come in and immeadiately make an impact on a game. A positive impact. With Woody being a defensive minded coach, the easiest way to do this, is to play good defense. If Teague got on the floor, and got a few steals that got him easy lay-ups, or stopped the opposing PG with great defense, Woody would be compelled to play him every night at a 15 min a game clip. When Royal Ivey got his 10 minutes a game, it was because he was the best defensive PG option that Woody had. When Mario would get into the game before Acie, it was because of his defense. A defensive PG like Ty Lawson would easily see 10 minutes every night under Woody, because he plays under control . . and he plays defense. But when Teague comes into a game, and misses lay-ups, and doesn't play solid defense, and is on the floor with guys who are posting a negative +/- number as a group, it would be stupid to play Teague 15 min a night. If he did, the Hawks may be 8 - 5 right now, instead of 11 - 2. The other dynamic to this, is that Jamal Crawford can't totally replace JJ's impact at the 2. He can offensively ( on occasion ). But defensively, he can't. So if Crawford is poor defensively, and Teague isn't that good defensively, you now have a situation in which the bench can't build or sustain leads. When paired with Crawford, Teague has to yield to him offensively. So Teague has to either pick his spots offensively, or affect the game in other ways. If he can't do that in the limited minutes he's playing, he won't get any additonal minutes. We have 2 PGs on this team with a combined 20 years of NBA experience and have played in A ton of NBA games. One of them has been a floor leader on playoff teams for years, and is still one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. He plays smart, and you can trust him on the court, even with him being a defensive liability. The other is a guy who has excellent handles, is very fast with the ball, ( and from a scoring standpoint ) can be as explosive as any guard in the league, although he has been historically erratic and inconsistent in his performance. His defense is less to be desired ( although he got a lot of steals vs Houston ). But when he's on, he's VERY GOOD. Yet, knowing all of this, and seeing the Hawks with an 11 - 2 record, people would rather see the rookie PG more?

I'd much rather for Marvin to consistently make 50% of his shots, than to worry about him scoring 20 points against good teams. On most nights, he's not going to get enough shot attempts to get 20 pts. Because of that, it's more important that he consistently goes 6 - 11 . . . 7 - 14 FGs, with a couple of 3pt makes sprinkled in there. He may not come close to getting 19 shots in a game for the rest of the year, so efficient shooting is a must for him. What he did last night though, was help himself a little. He knocked down early shots, which gained the confidence of his teammates to pass him the ball. Most important, he crashed the offensive boards. I think he got 4 or 6 extra points simply by putting back offensive rebounds.

And who says that Teague is better than Acie? Acie was doing the same things Teague is doing . . . showing flashes that he could be a good distributing PG . . and missing a ton of lay-ups when he does get to the rim. So until Teague shows that he's no more than just more athletic than Acie, I'm not saying he's better than Acie. And Teague is nowhere near Aaron Brooks' level yet. Nowhere near. Here's a quote I saw in Friday's edition of USA Today. They had a nice little write up about the Hawks. This is what they have Woody saying: "People were on me in the past about using my bench . . . but . . . if I'm not comfortable with it, I'm going to go with who I can win with." AMEN Woody.

LOL . . interesting game. We're shooting ourselves in the foot, while the Houston bench is outplaying most of our starting unit. As I type this, they have 19 ofensive rebounds. Get ready Smoove, we need you. Coach, get Crawford out this game. He's a -14 +/- ratio tonight. Marvin, since Capt. JJ has a broke shot tonight, we're gonna need you to win this game for us. LOL @ me just typing that for Marvin. Damn.

The Dieselites. I mean damn. He's even getting offensive rebounds this game. LOL @ DJ's comment. Hopefully those fingertips won't form until next July . . after the NBA Finals.

No doubt. Aliens must've kidnapped him for a few weeks, but decided to return him to his body or something.

First off, it depends on which '88 team you're talking about. The 87 - 88 team that took Boston to 7 games, did NOT have Moses Malone on it. The 88 - 89 team did though . . . and won 50 games, and lost in the 1st round. Those Moses Hawk teams were good, but disappointing come playoff time. Actually, the 86 - 87 Hawks may have been better than both of those other teams. They won 57 games that year, but lost to Detroit in the 2nd round. Back in the 80s, it was nothing for Nique to jack up 25 - 30 shots a game. Offensively, his output and production is comparable to Carmelo Anthony. Part of the reason why those 80s Hawk teams "only" won at the low 50-win level, was because if Nique had a bad shooting game, we usually lost. The 93 - 94 Hawks ( pre Nique trade ) was a dominant home team, but could lose to anybody on the road. And I mean anybody. Nique, although still good, was a much more erratic shooter that settled for a lot of long jumpers But the supporting pieces around Nique ( K-Willis, Mookie, Plastic Man ( Stacey Augmon ), along with I think Craig Ehlo ) were very good at times. I just wished we could've seen what that team with Nique could've done in the playoffs, with no Jordan around. Like everyone else is saying, the 96 - 97 Hawks were a great defensive team. Dikembe and Mookie on defense, were so fun to watch back then. Smitty was the great "post-up" guard, and Laettner did his thing offensively on a nightly nasis. The problem with that team, was that they virtually had no bench. They were 7 deep, with an 8th man sometimes rotating in the mix. That was a strange offensive team too. They never looked to run, but in the halfcourt, they didn't mind jacking up a lot of 3's . . . especially Mookie. Mookie would have damn near a triple-double one night, then go 3-13 ( 1-8 3FG ) the next. I used to call him "Mookie Sellout" back in those days, becaue all those bad 3's kept us from winning games at times. The current Hawks are definitely far more athletic than any of those other teams. They're nowhere near as tough though. But if Josh Smith is going to play at a level in which he's getting 15+ points and 10+ rebounds a night, that may elevate this team over those other squads. I think the 09 - 10 Hawks and the 96 - 97 Hawks are the best 2 teams, with a slight edge going to the 96 team.

and the Hornets just beat Phoenix . . the team who was also 10 - 2. It's amazing that people still are worried about the 10th and 11th men getting some playing time.

It is amazing, isn't it? An offensive "genius" like Mike D'Antoni, doesn't look so good when he has Chris Duhon running his offense, as opposed to Steve Nash . . who makes Alvin Gentry look like a genius these days. Give a coach better players and time for his kids to "grow up", and Voila . . you have a decent team. In the half court offense, Josh Smith and Al Horford are still guys you can't dump the ball to down on the blocks, and expect them to convert. They're getting better, but a guy like Paul Milsap is still a better low post scorer down on the blocks. As I mentioned earlier this week in a thread Exodus started, Josh Smith is taking around 1/2 of his shots within 8 seconds elasping off the shot clock, shooting a very high percentage. What does that mean? It means that he's running the floor every chance he gets, and is getting a ton of easy buckets in the paint. And those easy buckets are usually coming after a steal or a defensive rebound being quickly pushed up the floor. So we're 3rd in offense, but a lot of that has to do with exactly what Woody preaches constantly . . . DEFEND AND REBOUND THE BASKETBALL. We don't have the strongest or biggest frontcourt in the league . . but we definitely have the fastest. And both Horford and Josh are talented enough to grab a rebound and quickly push the ball up the floor . . even make a pass while leading the break. As far as the halfcourt offense goes, people may not like this, but ISO JJ is far more successful than it is unsuccessful. JJ has a size advantage over just about every 2-guard in the league. If they don't double him, he goes into the paint and shoots right over top of them. If they do double, he passes to the open man, who may take a shot or pass to another open man. Without the consistent low post option or the quick penetrating PG that can run pick and roll all day, ISO JJ really is our best option in the halfcourt in some instances of the game. Yeah, they could look a lot prettier in the halfcourt, but no basketball team is a perfect one. The Hawks lose when they don't stop people. They don't win because the halfcourt offense is great. I loved the graph ESPN showed last night concerning the Hawks in their first 12 games, dating back in a 5-year span. ( ironically, the same time span JJ has been here ) 05 - 06: 2 06 - 07: 5 07 - 08: 5 08 - 09: 8 09 - 10: 10 It's been nothing but a steady progression over the years. But the bar will always be raised for Woody. If we win 55 games and get to the ECF, but lose, people will call for his head. I guarantee you that. Sund . . . finish your homework by Christmas,

I think he started to get it in the Cleveland playoff series last year. In the Miami series, he was either great, or absolutely horrible. In the Clebeland series, he seemed to drive the ball a lot more, which led to him playing well in 3 of the 4 games. I was at Game 3 of that series ( ironocally, his only bad game of the series ) and I remembered how the fans flat out booed the kid for coming out in the 3rd quarter and taking jumpers. I guess because JJ was ice cold, that he felt that he needed to take over the game . . . with his jumpshooting. In Game 4 though, he played under control and had a real good game. Then you have to wonder what playing with the US Select team over the summer did to or for him. You have to wonder if hearing another coach tell him that he should abandon the jumper, finally got to him. Or did he play with the Hawks in a video game, and saw from there that he couldn't shoot the ball? I don't know. But the more he plays like this, the more praise he's going to get from local and national media. If we have a real good record going into January, and he's averaging over 16 pts - 10 rebs - 4 asst - 2 stls - and 2 blks . . . he'll be talked about as being an All-Star pllayer. I need to look at last night's play-by-play, but I think the Hawks scored off of every Josh Smith offensive rebound, including 2 assists by Smoove to JJ for a 3 pointer. He's been amazing during this win streak, and especially in the last 3 games.