TheNorthCydeRises

I love how this thread has so few replies. It's absolutely KILLING PEOPLE to have to give Woody credit. You know when I knew Woody wasn't nearly as clueless as people made him out to be? It was in December 2006 . . . in a game @ Denver. It's about 9 minutes to go in the 4th, and the Hawks are down like 15 - 17 points. But before I tell the story of what happened after that, you need to know the story before it. Going into that game, we were without Childress, Marvin, Speedy, AND Zaza. At that time, that's 3/5ths of the starting lineup and our 6th man is out. Woody is forced to start Lue, Lorenzen Wright, Shelden, and has to elevate Salim to 6th man status. 1st half, the Hawks pretty much slow the pace down to a crawl, and shoot well enough to have a slim lead at halftime over Denver. Salim was the shooting star in that half. 3rd quarter starts, and the Nuggets started to get their act together, using a late quarter run to blow the game open. They had everything going, and Melo was slowly taking over the game. By the time the 9 minute time out comes around, the lead was 15 - 17 points, and the Nuggets were preparing for the kill shot. That's when Woody employs what I still believe was the best coaching adjustment of his career. With a lineup consisting of . . PG - Lue G - Salim F - JJ PF - Smoove C - Shelden Woody instructs the Hawks to go to a zone . . a 3 - 2 zone reminiscent of the old Jerry Tarkanian UNLV "amoeba defense" of the 1990s. This allows him to put his best offensive group on the floor, while forcing Denver to try to either shoot over or pass into the zone. So they try to pass through the zone, feeding the ball to a hot Melo. But the active arms of Shelden started deflecting passes or flat out stealing the ball. This ignited the Hawks fast break . . an unconventional fast break in which the Hawks were looking for quick jumpers. And when they tried to shoot over the zone, they had to do it from 25 feet and beyond. Little Earl Boykins couldn't shoot from that range,and shots by JR Smith and Melo were always contested. 3 minutes later, the Hawks had trimmed a double-digit lead down to 6. And when JJ hits a 3 on a fast break via another Denver turnover, the Hawks were only down 3 points with a lot of time to go in the game. The run was absolutely incredible. Now, could they finish the job, was the only question. You damn right they could. LOL . . I remember Smoove either getting a rebound or stealing the ball, and starting a 2-man fast break in which he tosses an ALLEY-OOP TO SALIM. Of course, he's not going to dunk the ball, but he catches it in mid air and tries to lay it up. The shot is blocked, but it was a goaltend, tying the game. ( I remember now . . . I think it was after a jump ball situation in which Smoove got the tip, and he and Salim raced to the other end ) Then Shelden, of all people, wins the game. I think it was the defense of Shelden on Melo, that forced the jump ball that led to the Salim goaltend. But then the Hawks, true to their form, run ISO JJ, in which the Nuggets immeadiately double him. After damn near losing the ball, he passes to Smoove, who passes to Shelden in the lane. He makes a shot fake, gets Camby in the air, and goes right into him to draw the foul. Shelden hits 2 FTs and the Hawks lead 98 - 96. To seal the win, Smoove gets a fingertip block on a shot, and the Hawks win. Without Woody's adjustment, and the belief that they could still get back in the game, they lose by 20 that night. That game was important at the time, because we were around a .500 team at that time ( something like 7 - 8 . . . 8 - 9 ). It was a sign that even back then, the Hawks were attempting to turning the corner. Anybody who remembers the 06 - 07 season remembers that this team was DECIMATED by injuries that year, with the most catastrophic happening to Smoove right before Christmas, and to JJ in March of that season ( possibly under orders from management to "tank" the season ). Even back then, Woody was preaching his philisophy of winning basketball. But his squads were way too young and the talent just not good enough to consistently do what he wanted to do. Now, the kids are all grown up, even if they still haven't reached their full potential. And he has veterans . solid veterans . . that he can bring off the bench. No more Royal Iveys . . or Cedric Bozemans . . or Salims . . or Sheldens . . to bring off the bench. Back in those days, a guy like Mo Evans would've gotten considerable playing time. But these days, the team is so good now, that even a solid shooter/defender like him can't get consistent PT. We've come a long way folks. Our coach has come a long way. And his philosophies and teachings are a MAJOR REASON, why this team is where it's at today. Make no mistake about it. The 28 - 8 run we went on last night, is WOODYBALL at its finest. A run that was started and finished by having great defense and solid rebounding fueling the offense.

And when I get 200 level tix off ticketmaster via the Hawks website, I like to sit in the 207 section, which is also in the corner . . and are damn good seats for $55 dollars. You can see the scoreboard, and the stat board for whomever is in the game at that time, from those seats. If I lived in ATL, that would definitely be where I purchased season tixs at. A round trip for me ( from middle TN to ATL . . roughly 600 miles ) to see a Hawks game costs me around $150 - $250. - $55 - 60 for tix ( if I take my ladyfriend that lives in Smyrna to the game, that's over $100 for tixs - $50 gas - $5 to park, because I park in a lot on Marietta St about 1/2 mile from the CNN Center ( $10 at the most for parking ) - $10 - 20 for food & drink - up to $50 if I buy some team gear at the Hawks store. ( bought the red Josh Smith jersey when I came down for the Wizards game ) I was going to try to make the Orando game, but that's out the question now. So my target is to make either the Detroit, Jersey, or Utah game in mid December. I make it a point to see this team in person, at least every 4 - 6 weeks. I'm glad that the city does at least show up for playoff time.

I'll post these 2 links again, in case people missed it in the Philips Arena thread: NBA 2007 ticket prices: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/116348 NBA 2009 ticket prices: ( note - you have to click on the link at the end of the article to see the 2009 pricing chart. It's a PDF file ) http://www.teammarketing.com/blog/index.html?article_id=99 Hawks ticket prices for this year are roughly $3 more than the league average. It's really no excuse to not go to the games, if you are a fan of the team and live in metro Atlanta. What some of you have to decide, is if you're willing to make the Hawks your #1 priority when spending your entertainmebt dollars. If not, then you'll always be able to come up with an excuse not to see the team. And those of you with families, it'll obviously be a bigger hit in the bank account for you. But the premise is still the same. Are you willing to spend $100 - $300 for your wife and kids, to see a Hawks game every now and then? Are you willing to scale back on some wasteful spending, in order to make that happen? If not, then you'll also have a ready-made excuse to not see the Hawks. One thing about it folks ( and Traceman said it right ), you can't expect these owners to do everything possible to field a winning squad, if the fans aren't willing to come out and pay to see the Hawks every once in a while. You can't expect them to pay JJ, or any other major free agent what their market value is, if you as a fan aren't willing to spend money to see your favorite team live and in person. And the ASG damn well won't pay the luxury tax, if we're a 50+ win team, but are still in te bottom 5 or 10 in ticket revenue. We can't be a top level team, with a sub-par fan base.

Who in the world is talking championship at this point and time? LOL @ all of the people who freaked out over that preseason loss. Seems like that was years ago, doesn't it? For once, I'm in total agreement with jsmoovefan. If you, as a Hawk fan, can't let yourself totally enjoy what this team has done so far, instead of worrying about our so-called championship aspirations ( in November ), then you'll never be happy as a fan . . until we win a title. Which means that you'll probably be disappointed at the end of the year. I would've been happy as hell at the beginning of the season, if the Hawks finished with a 10 - 7 or an 11 - 6 record to end November. But we have a legit shot to be at least 13 - 4 to end the month . . and be the #1 team in the division and possibly the entire conference . . . and possibly the entire league. Even if people aren't sold on the Hawks, or Woody, or JJ . . just enjoy this while it lasts. I wonder what happened to all those people that used to rail against this team? At least hotlanta pops in on occasion. But where are those other guys that were constantly critical of this team? -CBAreject - Walter - TexasPete - TroyMcClure I wonder what those guys think of the Hawks these days?

Damn . . my bad. I posted the 2007 link. Here's the link for 2009: http://teammarketing.com/blog/index.html?article_id=99

Just so that some of you can see how the Hawks compare to the other teams around the league, I'll post a link to an article talking about ticket prices around the league in 2009. The league average for tickets is $48. The average Hawk ticket costs a little under $52. Laker tickets costs over $90 on average. A Hawk ticket rep came on here during the summer, and said that the Hawks were going to have higher ticket prices for the "big" games, than they would for other games. Most everybody around the league does that, and the Hawks were one of the last teams in the league to do this. In 2007, the average Hawk ticket was $38. So as the team got better, and we started making the playoffs, the raised the ticket prices. That's common practice. Anyway, here's the link showing 2009 ticket prices around the league. Make sure you download the PDF file link, that shows the chart for ticket prices for all 30 teams. http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/116348

I just saw that on Sportscenter about 10 minutes ago, and was about to start a thread about that. And for about 3 minutes, I thought . . "OK, they may be a little weaker now." Then I remembered that they still have J-Will . . and the old "war horse", Anthony Johnson ( who played well last year as the backup PG, when Nelson was out ). They'll miss Nelson a little, but those two vet PGs may fill in quite nicely in his absence.

And as far as the reasons/excuses why people in ATL don't go to Hawk games . . . just stop. It's always something that is blamed for the reason why ATL fans don't show up to games like they should. The difference between legit fan bases and other fan bases, is that the #1 reason why legit fan bases come out to see a game, is to see THEIR team. Other types of fan bases only come out for big or important games . . or to see some popular player from another team. We're still in the "other" type of fan base category. It's still early in the season, so I guess the Hawks still have time to win people over. It's a shame though . . it should've already happened, in a city that's "so-called" a basketball town.

I bought a ticket from a scalper last year for the Houston game ( the game in which Bibby won with a 3 at the buzzer. ) He didn't want to split up his 200 level tickets by selling me just one, so he ended up selling me a 100 level club seat for $65. WOW!! Sitting on the 100 club level side is like night and day. The crowd isn't as into the game on that side, but everything else is LOVELY. The food is MUCH BETTER. No consession stand food on that side. And if it is, it's damn near gourmet. I see why that side looks half-empty until the end of the game, because everybody is mingling/fraternizing in the club level lounge. Food, drinks, and some of the most beautiful women in ATL are all on that side. I'm sure I won't luck out and get a hold to a $65 club ticket ever again . . . but I'm making it a point to sit on that side of the arena for at least one game this year. I thought club level at the GA Dome was nice ( and it is ). But WOW @ Philips Arena.

LOL . . great quote. .

Whenever I have brought this subject up in the past, all I got were excuses from some of the Hawk fans who live in ATL. Some of the excuses were valid. Others were BS. People will blame the recession, but I'll bet you that the article over the summer about NBA attendance and revenue had an effect on the Hawks. That article pretty much pulled the rug over the sad truth about ATL sports fans. The Hawks were pretty much giving away damn near 5500 tickets a game last year, which resulted in us having one of the lowest gate revenue per game numbers in the league. Even though we've been a top 10 home team for 2 years, people really weren't coming out to see the Hawks, like fans in other cities do their teams. And I'll bet that the organization made a conscious decision to NOT give that many tickets away this season, and start making people pay to see this team. I forget the word that was used in the article to describe this practice . . . but league-wide, some teams give away a certain amount of tickets so that they'll at least get consession stand money from people attending games off the free tickets. It's sad though. I live 4.5 hours away from ATL, and I make it a point to attend 5 - 10 home games a year . . and then will attend at least 1 playoff game per series. It's pretty much no excuses for the so-called die hard Hawk fans living in ATL now. Before, they would gloss over our home record the past 2 years ( including playoffs ) . . 62 - 27 . . and act like the Hawks weren't worth paying to see @ Philips, because their road record was horrible . . which brought down the overall record. No excuses now though. We-re the #1 rated team in the league, and play an uptempo exciting brand of basketball. All of the things that some of the fans have been crying about for years. I'm sure people will show up to see D-Wade, which means there will be 4 - 5,000 fake Heat fans in the building. Just sickening. For you guys and gals who go to games on a regular basis . . God Bless You. They definitely need your support.

It's really great to see. I always wanted him to be a power player in the mold of Shawn Kemp. But I also said that he could be a "souped-up" Shawn Marion, with his superior athleticism and speed playing the 4. I think we're seeing the "souped-up" Shawn Marion version of Josh Smith. And that's definitely good enough for him to make the All-Star team. Speaking of that, if the season ended today, WOODY would get to pick the All-Star reserves. Starters ( who will be voted in ) G - Wade G - Carter ( he'll get the votes playing w/Orlando ) F - Lebron F - KG ( because he's popular ) C - Howard Woody's reserves G - JJ G - Brandon Jennings ( MIL will be above .500 with him leading the way ) F - Smoove F - Pierce F/C - Bosh C - Horford C - Shaq ( out of respect to the big man . . and because of Cleveland's record )

What bugs me about Crawford, is that he'll keep jacking up 3's, even when he's ice cold. That's the bad shot selection that people talk about. I was going to post my NJSI jumpshot ratings today, but didn't have time. But before tonight's game, Crawford was shooting sub .300 on his 3 pointers . . but 48% on his 2 point jumpers. In the Boston game he came up big, but was 1 - 6 from 3pt range. Tonight he was 0 - 5. He's taking a ton of 3s, but is the team's worst 3 point shooter. Conversely, he's one of the best 2pt shot shooters on the squad, if you add in the lay-ups. That's why I said at halftime that Woody has to watch that dude's minutes in the 2nd half, if he's still cold. Sure enough, he was still jacking up 3s in the 2nd half. Then Woody took him out with about 9 min to go in the 4th and put Marvin back in. I believe that's when things really started to turn around. Woody did a good job in watching Crawford, and not letting him play the majority of the 4th qtr.

???? If it wasn't for Zaza and his offensive rebounding and getting to the line, the Blazers would have a 10 point lead right now. The move to sit Horford paid off, because we didn't lose any ground with him out. Now, Woody has Horford to play for a good chunk of the 2nd half, and an active Zaza to go to if need be. What Woody has to watch though, is when Crawford comes back in. He's taking nothing but long jumpers in this game, which sees him 2 - 7 FG right now. With the way JJ was also missing shots, we can't afford to have both of them in the game bricking up shots. This is the kind of game in which Woody will really have to make a decision on Crawford's PT, if he's still off in the 2nd. We're lucky to be where we are right now.

I don't use the +/- feature to rate posts often, but I had to give you a +1 for this post. This is exactly how I view BK. He definitely made his mistakes, but he made some good moves as well. I mean, to think that guys like Royal Ivey and Solo are still in the league, and are actually getting PT in other places, shows how decent of an eye he has for talent . . . even if he doesn't make the best possible pick at that time. He was unlucky on the Speedy deal, because he hardly played. He did commit to Speedy for too many years though. And his other questionable and bad moves have been discussed ad nauseum. He'd get a B- from me, if I were to give BK a letter grade. It is definitely some other teams in the league that would be better off with BK at GM.

I'm not eatin that plate just yet, but he is playing very good basketball right now. The guy still takes way too many jumpers that he could take all the way to the rim. He loves taking tough shots though. If he's still playing at this level come Christmas, I'll gladly eat that plate. Hopefully Marvin's shot will come back, in case of a future Crawford shooting slump.

YEAH CLARKSVILLE!!! My boy Trenton finally got a chance to play, and made the most of it. He was an offensive demon in college, but switcxhed his game up in the pros to be a defensive specialist. Nice to see him have a good game. Too bad Jersely lost by a D-Wade 3 at the buzzer. I'm definitely looking forward to the Miami game. They've been feasting on bad teams.

I like that. Finish your homework.

The fact is that we could play peopkle straight up if we wanted, but that would expose both Bibby and Crawford ( two guys that we need offensively ). So the switching defense is employed sometimes to prevent lightning quick PGs from killing us ( like they ued to do with Tyronn Lue ) or prevent teams from exploiting us on pick and rolls. We all know that Bibby is the defensive liability. And before the Boston game, our players were saying that the problems on defense had to do more about communication, than the actual defense itself. I think it was Horford that said that we weren't calling out our switches, and that led to 2 guys sometimes following the same guy. It's funny. The switcing defense is a problem with the fans, but it saw Boston shoot a HORRIBLE PERCENTAGE from 3 last night. So when done right, does this make the switching defense effective? Our defense was a strength last year . . the same defense. LOL @ a poor job. We're 7 - 2. I guess the players are coaching themselves out there. All this is, are cop-outs to keep from giving the coach any credit for the success of this team. And to be honest, it's a bunch of crap. You don't like the way he's handled the bench, but he's trusted guys when he needed to, and played the starters to insure victories. But because the rookie or Joe Smith can't see the floor every night, people have a problem with that? Even though we're winning? You don't like him benching players when they're about to get in foul trouble? You mean like when Smoove picked up 2 fouls in the first 2 minutes of the Charlotte game? Wouldn't the "old Woody" leave him out of a the game the entire half, instead of bringing him back in the game with a full 8 minutes to go in the half? Or do you mean like when Woody takes a player with 2 fouls out, with 2 minutes to go in a half? OK. But if that's the case, why don't you want the bench player in the game in that instance ( when he's in the game to protect a starter ) . . . but want him in the game at any other time? And as for Crawford, that's straight BS. I said before the season that if Crawford turns out to be an efficient player for us, that you guys better give Woody major credit for that . . . because he hasn't done it anywhere else he's been at ( under supposedly better coaches ). Crawford's job is to score the basketball. His job is the same as Manu Ginoboli, Ben Gordon, JR Smith, and Jason Terry. So when those coaches put those guys in that role, it's a credit to them using them right. But when Woody does it, Crawford is simply out there to do what he wants? Straight BS. Beccause when he's in the game with JJ, he defers to JJ. We are talented 1 - 6, even though people want Marvin traded these days. Guys like Zaza and Joe Smith weren't heavily courted in FA. Evans is solid and a good shooter. Teague has "potential". Problem is, great teams don't have to be good 1 - 10. Most great teams are good 1 - 8. The 10th man normally doesn't matter. But to Hawk fans, people act like the 10th man is just as important as the 7th. Well that's obvious. Major credit goes to anybody NOT named Mike Woodson. Hell . . give Skyhawk and his band of trampoline dunkers more credit than Woody. Forget the fact that a head coach usually picks his staff, assistants, and anybody else helping the team. This dude even had 2 so-called top assistants leave the staff, and we didn't miss a beat. And for the record, I've never called Woody a great coach . . but he's doing a damn good job this year. So give him a grade on the year. What grade would you give Woody so far this season? Does he even get a C+?

Death knell? Think about what you're saying. They may get fired 3 - 4 years down the line, after winning the award. But they won the award in the first place because of the tremendous season their team had, while the coach was at the helm. LOL . . see? Woody hate has ya'll so messed up in the head, that you can't even see the team benefit of Woody being COY. ( whispering ) . . . that would probaly mean that the Hawks would be one of the top 5 best teams in the league. And that would make us an NBA title contender. But I guess people would rather Woody not get a COY award . . and see the team be good, but not elite . . so that "Woody Hate" can live forever.

Of course you don't trade Marvin. If we do trade him, it'll be for expiring contracts to free up more money next summer to possibly sign JJ to a bigger deal. A move like that may keep the Hawks from going into luxury tax land to keep JJ. Marvin had a shooting slump like this last year. So it's not out of the question that he'll eventually start knocking down shots.

Mr. Tremor, I'm DEAD SERIOUS. See, the problem with a "hater" fan base like ours, is that they want to give everybody credit for the success of the Hawks . . except Woody. The new GM gets praised, but the coach who's coaching the players and managing the lineup doesn't? Nah. I call BS on that. Whenever the players talk about what they need to do to be successful, they ALWAYS mention the things that the coach is talking about. But the fan base would rather believe that they're coming up with all of these things on their own, instead of giving the coach credit. Even now, with people wanting Marvin benched, Woody isn't about to do that 3 weeks into the season. He knows that he'll need Marvin in a big way, as the season progresses. The only reason why Marvin didn't get back into the game last night, was because we made our run with Zaza, Joe Smith, and Crawford on the floor. But Marvin actually had a decent 1st half last night, and not a bad game. If he got his usual 30 minutes, he would've had double figure points and maybe 6 - 7 rebounds. But Woody made the correct call, and kept the guys who broke the game open, in the game. And notice that even in the few comments in this thread so far, that they really can't complain about Woody, other than not playing Teague . . a rookie PG who is the 9th or 10th man on the squad. People would rather make jokes, because they know that everything I typed in the original post is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. But this is a hater fan base. The hate for Woody is so engraved in their minds, that people won't give him credit for anything. That's not being real. Just like all the criticism JJ is receiving. That dude worked his azz off last night, yet, he's getting little credit for that win last night as well. Instead of giving Woody credit where credit is due, they'd rather complain about how little he's playing our 10th man or how much he's playing our top dog in big games. But it's cool. As long as they constantly complain about the little things that a 7 - 2 coach has done, I'll be here to point out the positive about what he does. If I created a poll that asked what grade would you give Woody so far, you'd see far more D's and F's than you would A's and B's. Why? Because it's a hater fan base ( in general ). Not everyone is a hater. But the haters definitely know who they are. Woody could get the Hawks to the NBA Finals, and people would still want him fired, if he didn't win it.

It's hard to double the iso because JJ and Crawford are good ISO players to begin with. When you really look at it, most of your good teams have at least 2 pretty good ISO players.

Barring some catastrophic result tonight against a Chris Paul-less Hornet team, through 3 weeks, Mike Woodson is the NBA Coach of the Year. There are a variety of things that has brought this about: - He coaches Joe Johnson like he's a superstar, which in turn, brings out the max in the Hawks Captain. Yes, we all know that JJ doesn't have the talent of the 4 or 5 superstars in this league, but Woody coaches him like he is. The offensive and defensive responsibilities he puts on JJ has made him a more dangerous player that other teams have to treat with superstar attention. But more importantly, it has made him a more mentally tougher player. While the 3 point shot isn't there so far this year, the Captain is grinding every night, doing all he can to lead his team to victory . . even rebounding the basketball. And on the defensive end, Woody doesn't hesitate to put JJ on the other teams best perimeter player, to try to slow or shut him down. Superstar responsibility = a more dangerous Joe Johnson. - It is Woody that has told this team as a whole, to drive the basketball whenever they can. Josh Smith has most been affected by this mindset, seeing that he's a highly efficient offensive player now. LOL . . let me say that again. Josh Smith is now a highly efficient offensive player. While Jamal Crawford loves his jumpshot, even he is driving the ball to the hole at a much higher rate than he ever has. This has led to his efficiency as a ballplayer increasing. The Hawks are #1 in the NBA in points in the paint. Let me say that again as well. The Hawks are #1 in the NBA in points in the paint. This is a complete contrast to a team that used to live to jack up long jumpers. Even Captain Johnson has laid off the 22 footer, and looked to get in the painted area to take his shot. - He has not succumbed to the pressure of playing Teague, ( a guy who simply might not be ready yet ), a lot of minutes off the bench. Because of veteran guards like Bibby,Crawford, and Mo Evans on the roster to compliment JJ, he isn't forced to throw Teague right into the fire. He knows that he'll need Teague before the season is over, but he isn't going to force feed the kid either. - He has managed the Hawks rotation as well as he ever has in his career. While not only succumbing to not forcing minutes for Teague, he has also coached games more sensibly. While having the ability to go 10 deep, he's using his depth according to the opponent we play. He's not feeling obligated to give guys a set number of nightly minutes. Instead, he's dishing out the minutes ( especially in the 2nd half ), according to how the Hawks match up against the other team. And when the fan base were calling for the reduction of Mike Bibby's minutes, he stuck right with Bibby, and his numbers now reflect the shooting he exhibited last season in November, with Bibby shooting in the mid 40% FG and over 40% 3FG. The most important move, is the use of the 3-guard lineup of Bibby, Crawford, and Johnson. He's using this lineup as his 2nd half offensive catalyst and possible closing lineup. The 4th quarter dominance of the Hawks can directly be credited to this move. With JJ and Crawford being very good shot creators, and Bibby being a deadly 3 point shooter, it prevents teams from employing alot of double teams against the Hawks. He's smart enough not to start this group though, because the 3 guards do tend to dominate the ball, which would lessen the touches of Josh Smith and Horford. All in all, Woody ( at least for 3 weeks ), has been one of the best coaches in the league. Because of that, he gets my early vote for Coach of the Year. Great job Woody.

Totally shocked. Smoove and Horford were brilliant tonight against the C's frontline. They were especially good in the 1st half. They gave JJ enough help to keep us within striking distance. For our entire frontline to outrebound them like that . . it's just great to see. And both of them shot at least 50% FG? Wow. Woody knows his team well. He didn't hesitate to give Zaza and Joe Smith a decent amount of minutes tonight, after hardly playing them in New York. I didn't think Joe Smith would even see the floor in the 2nd half. But Woody went to him, and he produced.