TheNorthCydeRises

Honestly though, the ideal situation would be to have Teague at the point, in that offensive group as well. Teague can penetrate and get to the hole. That causes major problems for a defense, when they know that they can't leave the shooters. Crawford would be the obvious choice, if not for the fact that he will almost ALWAYS shoot that schizophrenic jumper at the end of games. He will NOT take it all the way to the hole. The Hawks may have to lose a few games ( with JC taking the last shot ), for people to realize this.

If I'm down 1: Bibby JJ Marvin Smoove Horford With this group, you not only have shooters on the floor, but you also have guys who will give you the best chance to get an offensive rebound. Of course, you want the ball in JJ's hands, running ISO JOE of course, and have him make the right play. He either shoots it, or kicks it out to Bibby or Marvin for an outside jumper. If you miss, you have your best rebounders in the game to possibly put back a shot. A play probably isn't going to be run for a frontcourt player, so you need those guys to crash the boards to give us a possible 2nd chance at a basket. If I'm up 1: Teague JJ Marvin Smoove Horford Marvin, Smoove, and Horford collectively are our best defending frontline. Horford is the guy most likelu to secure a defensive rebound, and Smoove is the guy most likely to alter or block a shot. So those 2 guys stay in, no matter what. I'd go with Teague, especially if his "off the ball awareness" is better than Crawford's and Bibby's. Teague's quickness should enable him to possibly get steals and/or deflect passes. Most important, he "should" be able to stay in front of the quicker PGs in the league, forcing them to take a difficult shot.

Carry 13. Or even just carry 12. There are going to be a lot of guys cut next week, who may be better than the guys we have filling out the roster now. So we may want to wait and see who gets cut, then sign one or two of those guys. Cause who would you rather have? - any of the guys vying for that 13th - 15th spot? - of Shelden Williams, if Boston cuts him?

Other than being a big body, he really hasn't done anything to justify him making the team, judging by his play in preseason.

If the cat can't even play 15 - 20 minutes in a preseason game, it does give an indiccation of how much Smith can be counted on during the season. Like I've been saying, the dude shouldn't play more than 10 minutes a game. If his body is that run down, just give some of his PF minutes to Horford ( or even Hunter ).

Yeah NBA. So they're officially changing the rule about how many steps you can take after you catch the ball, while you're on the move. Instead of one step, it's officially 2 steps now. The league claims that they have ALWAYS instructed officials to IGNORE the one-step rule, and allow 2 steps. Imagine that . . lol. They didn't bother to tell the fans, or the players I guess. In most cases, the time in which you catch the ball, and if your foot is down on the floor . . that's considered one step. Your next step is the 2nd step. Then you have to shoot, pass, or stop. But since the league has long ignored that rule, they're finally validating why moves like the "2 step, then jump stop" and the Lebron "catch the ball at the top of the 3 point arc, take 3 steps, and dunk" move, are almost never called as a travel. They bet not ever call another traveling call, if a guy is on the move. I want Smoove getting his 3 steps going to the hole.

The fact that this thread has gone 8 pages, is incredible. It's also a testiment that Diesel isn't all the way wrong about this, so people have to keep coming at him with every somewhat favorable stat known to man. Now I disagree with Diesel, when he says that Marvin hasn't improved. What I will agree with him on, is that he hasn't improved nearly enough going into his 5th year in the league. In a lot of ways, Marvin's development mirrors the development of the Hawks. They've gotten better every year, but not really good enough to be taken serously by the contenders. The team is just decent . . just like Marvin. I think what needs to happen to Marvin, is for him to feel like he's the 2nd best, or even the best player on the team. I'll bet $20 that Smoove definitely feels like that, which is why he's willing to take and force shots ( good or bad ). I just don't think that Marvin has a "lead dog" mentality yet. Mabye that'll come as his game develops more. More than likely, it' ll take a major injury to Smoove or JJ, for him to be forced to have that mentality. I know people get tired of Diesel's threads constantly criticizing Marvin. But the fact is, he's not all the way wrong about this. And I think everyone on this board knows this. But Marvin is still slowly improving year by year, so he's not all the way right either. I just think that maybe it's time for him to see Marvin for what he is . . a good complimentary player on a rising NBA team. Don't expext "star level" play, until he plays like and has a star player mentality. If it comes, great. If it doesn't, be satisfied with what he gives us, as long as he's helping us win games.

I think we have to be real about some things, when it comes to Marvin and Horford. Like Exodus said, Marvin and Horford getting more touches will probably have to be of their own doing. That means doing MORE of what their strength is . . at a higher efficiency level. For Horford, this means grabbing more offensive rebounds. If he does that, it'll give him more opportunities to put the ball back in the hole or get fouled and go to the FT line. We all know that Horford is undersized at center. And while he CAN play center at a decent level, we all know that PF is the spot where he can most likely reach his maximum potential. And because we're not benching Smoove to play Horford at PF, he has no choice but to scrap harder for his points. It's either that, or become like Amare, with a real good 15 - 20 foot jumper. As for Marvin, his strength is jumpshooting. So the easy solution for him, is to become a better one. Yes, Marvin added the 3-ball,which is great. But as my Northcyde Jump Shot Index pointed out over the summer, his jump shooting overall was somewhat inconsistent, bordering on highly inconsistent. So the truth is that Marvin isn't knocking down enough of his wide open shots, in his current role in the offense. From 3 point range, Marvin shot over 40% on the road, but under 30% at home. So just in that right there, if he gets his home 3FG% up, that'll make a difference. And he could also help himself , if he improved his offensive rebounding. Both guys can help themselves by doing what they do best . . . a little better. Does that mean the offense needs to stay the same? No. But I also don't want a situation in which we're force-feeding the ball to them, and expecting them to make something happen offensively. Get the ball to them in the right spots, to give them the best chance of scoring. Don't toss it into Horford down on the block, if he has a center on him that's 40 lbs bigger and 2 inches taller. Don't run an ISO play for Marvin, if he has a guy like Ron Artest guarding him. Be smart about when you get them the ball. Also remember this . . . it's not like these 2 have ever been prolific scorers on any level of basketball. Marvin was a complimentary 6th man type, while Horford was in a balanced scoring type offense, in which he may or may not get a lot of shots per game. So to me, it's more about improving their efficiency, hustle, and shooting overall, which in turn, should improve their point production and value in the offense.

Hopefully, it would've been something along the lines of . . Chill ( signed at 6 mill per ) + Evans + Morris . . for Big Z ( and his expiring 11 million dollar contract next year ) I think that would'v been a good trade for both teams. For the Cavs, you get a super athlete in Chill, that you could either use as a 6th man, or insert in the starting lineup alongside Lebron. With slashing and offensive rebounding being his strengths, he'd fit in well in Cleveland. Mo would give then an additional shooter + a guy who can defend the 2 and the 3. The Cavs would possibly become an even better defensive team with those 2 additions. For us, Big Z would give us a big body at center. If we made this trade, you're probably not talking about us adding Joe Smith and Jason Collins ( which would've been fine by me, because I don't think they're gonna help us much ). But what I'm looking at, is the impact this may have on Al Horford. Because if you add Z to the squad, you now can put Horford as the backup PF. Now we can see what Al could really do with time at PF. For the frontcourt minutes, I'm looking at something like: C: Horford ( 16 min ) - Zaza & Big Z ( splitting 32 min ) PF: Smith ( 32 min ) - Horford ( 16 min ) With Z and Z, you give the most minutes to whichever Z is playing the best. Of course, pairing those 2 on the same team would create endless nicknames: - "ZZ Hawk" ( a play on the 80s rock band ZZ Top . . dress both of them up in long black beards and shades, for a video during the game ) - "Z-squared" ( an obvious nickname, with both of them having Z in their name ) - "Z2" ( or just go with Z2, with Zaza acting like Bono and Big Z playing guitar, mocking the band U2 ) - "the Z-Headed monster" ( a play on the nickname of the early 90s group of Chicago Bulls centers " the 3-headed monster ) - "Z and Z Music Factory" ( this might be gay as hell . . but have them lip-sync the old 90s hit from the rap/dance group C & C Music Factory . . have Zaza play the part of the shirtless rapper, and Big Z sing the chorus that the woman sung ) . . like I said, the nicknames would be endless with those 2 As for the departure of Evans, we'd now have to go out and sign a backup vet, but scrub SF. Or go with the alternative . . use JJ as the backup SF ( ala what we'd do with Horford at PF ) . . which would give Crawford more time at SG . . which would give Teague more time at PG.

Fear the Wiz taking our spot? No. They'll take it anyway, if we don't start winning more consistently on the road. That should be one of the top goals for this team this season. I would love to see this team win 25 road games, but 20 is more realistic. I will say this about the Wiz though. During this preseason, Gilbert Arenas has played Chris Paul like, in the playmaking department. He's also not relying on his jumper, and taking the ball to the hole. Now if he does this during the regular season, the Wiz definitely becomes a team to watch. If he changes his mindset from trying to be the NBA's top scorer ( by jacking up a bunch of jumpers ), to trying to become the league's to assist man, the Wiz become VERY DANGEROUS. Hopefully, this is just a phase that Gil is going through.

I guess Marvin reads "the Squawk". Interesting preseason game from him vs the Pistons. - he was responsible for 12 of the Hawks first 14 points ( 8 points and 2 assists ) - he has 14 points at halftime, with only 4 of those points being jumpshots. ( even caught an alley oop from JJ ) - went to the line 6 times. So I guess Diesel needs to keep talking ish about Marvin, so that we'll get these types of games from him in the regular season.

My main problem with ISO Joe, is that JJ is way too passive at times in the offense. Instead of waiting for the double team to come, he needs to attack it more. That's how most star guards and wings beat double teams. Wade does this the best. And Nique never waited when he got the ball. But from an athletic standpoint, JJ is more comparable to Pierce. So he should approach the double team like Pierce does. He should either shoot the ball quicker, or attack and dish, or go hard to the rim looking for contact ( to get to the FT line ). It wasn't his best shooting game of the year, but last November's game in Boston, is the way JJ should play all the time. He took just about every open shot he had, he was in full attack mode, and he set up people well. 9 - 23 FGs isn't great by any means. But he went 8 - 9 FTs, had 7 assists, and scored 28 points in that game . . including what should've been the game winning assist to Marvin with the 3-pointer in the corner. What I want your boy Crawford to do, is simply to play smart basketball. Just pick and choose his spots. I want to see him only have 75% of his shots be jumpers, not the 86% it was last year. Use that And-1 crossover of his to get to the hole, not to create space for his jumper. Run the fast break at a speed we haven't seen here before, with him getting easy lay-ups or assists. And use that skill in the halfcourt offense, in order to take the playmaking burden off of JJ, and have JJ play off the ball like you want him to do. Give me a 45% FG - 38% 3FG - 5.5 assist version of Crawford . . instead of the 40% FG - 20 ppg scorer, any day of the week.

Bibby shot 39% from 3-point range last year. The 3rd highest percentage of his career. When this team was rolling in the first third of the season, both Bibby and Marvin were shooting in the mid-40s FG% and over 40% from three. As for the offensive movement, I can't argue with that. But this isn't college basketball, in which you can work the ball around for 20 seconds before deciding to shoot. In the NBA, even if you get the ball up court quickly, you have about 15 seconds to get a quality shot, before you have to force a shot in that final 5 seconds. If you walk it up, you have about 10 seconds. People can continue to blame Woody. But in fairness to him, he really hasn't had the right type of players here to run a smooth offense. He hasn't had the "pass-first" PG who can run the show, nor the post player who we can throw the ball down low to, in order to play an inside-outside game. Almost all good offenses in the history of basketball has both of those elements ( unless you're Lebron James . . which shows just how special he is ) What he does have, are a bunch of athletes who can get out and run, and create offense by playing defense. We do have an interesting mix here this year though, with Teague and Crawford here. I rag on Crawford from an efficiency standpoint, but he may well be the best playmaking PG that Woody has ever had here. Lue, AJ, Law, Ivey, and Bibby represent the PGs Woody has had. Not surprising that this team didn't do anything, until we acquired Bibby. But if Woody can get Crawford to do what Gilbert Arenas is doing this preseason . . and that is looking to set up his teammates first, and using his God-given talent to constantly beat people off the dribble to get to the hole ( instead of settling for long jumpers ) . . he could make this offense even more efficient. But since Crawford has never played like that, we'll see if he can ( or is willing ) to do that. I'll address my main problem with ISO Joe in Diesel's post.

The system is not seriously flawed. Most teams will see their guards take a lot of shots, even if they shoot a lower percentage than the big man. What usually determines if a guy can be a #1 or #2 scoring option, is if he can create his own shot. This is one of the main reasons why Diesel is a Crawford advocate. Problem is, Crawford is perennially one of the most inefficient players in the league, for the amount of shots he takes. So having a guy like that taking a lot of shots, is detrimental to the team as a whole. The reason why Horford gets so little shot attempts, is because he's not good at creating his own shot. He's decent at catching and turning to take the open 15 footer. But if you throw the ball down low to him, more often than not, he's not going to make a basket or draw a foul. If he could just draw fouls, more of the offense would be ran through him, to give us that ouside-inside threat. If he had the 15 footer, plus the ability to create his shot or draw a foul down on the block ( like a Carlos Boozer ), it would be stupid NOT to get Horford 13 - 16 shots a game. He would shoot a high percentage, plus be able to get to the free throw line. Josh Smith, while just as ineffective down on the block, does have an advantage over most PFs in the league. And that is his speed. He's able to create his own shot by simply beating his man off the dribble or down the court for a lay-up or dunk. Marvin can catch and shoot, and drive to the basket. What he hasn't perfected yet, is the pull-up jumper off the dribble. For a wing, that kind of prevents him from being a top scoring option. If he plays the 4 though, he's shown that he kind of uses the same things that Josh Smith uses ( quickness ), to create scoring opportunities for himself. And his jumpshooting ability when he plays the 4 becomes a real asset. But the thing about this whole discussion is this. If you give just about ANY DECENT OFFENSIVE GUY in this league 15+ shots a game, he'll be able to average somewhere around 18 - 20 ppg. Smoove could do it. Horford could do it. And Marvin could do it. Flip could do it. Even Salim Stoudamire could do it. But JJ is the guy we WANT doing it, because he can not only make open shots, he can make tough shots while being guarded, and create opportunities for others. People say that ISO Joe is ineffective. I say that ISO Joe actually helps other guys get wide open looks, when teams go to double team JJ. If they don't double him, he simply takes the smaller guard off the dribble or shoots right over him ( unless he's a great defensive guard ). While not on Kobe's, Wade's, or Lebron's level, JJ has proven that he's a potent enough of an offensive player that you have to double team him on occasion. A free-flowing ball movement offense would be great here. But it's only great if people can knock down shots, and create their own shot on occasion. You also have to be highly efficient in a free-flowing offense. If not, you have a situation like you have at Golden St., with a bunch of guys just running and gunning, without winning many games.

Actually, he did get hurt a little, so Woody held him out of the 2nd half. But that is exactly how I would handle Crawford when his shot isn't going. If he's off, you sit him down. You don't let him shoot you out of a game, or shoot the opponent back into the game. Sekou and some of the others did like his passing, especially to Zaza. If he wants to play the playmaker role to set up others when his shot isn't going, I have no problem with that. It's just one preseason game, so I wouldn't be surprised to see "Superstar Jamal" show up in one of these games, in which he makes about 5 threes and score 25 points in 25 minutes on 10 - 13 FGs. But the guy who played more like Flip last night, was Teague. Acie's big problem is that he couldn't finish when going to the hole. Teague not only finished, but drew some "and-1s". That kind of play is what made Flip valuable last season. Crawford will ALWAYS depend on his jumper. He uses his quickness to create separation to get his jumpshot off, but not to take it to the rim. And it's a shame too, because that guy could make a living from the FT line with the way he shoots FTs.

Marvin highlight in tonight's preseason game: - he steals the ball and takes it all the way to the hole for a lay-up - next NO possession, he steals bal again ( 4th steal of the game ), and passes to JJ for the dunk - next ATL possession, he tosses an alley-oop to Horford for the dunk In 45 seconds of gameplay . . Marvin had 2 pts, 2 assists, and 2 steals. Efficiency at its best.

The easiest way to keep the minutes of the starters down, are for the Hawks to take care of business against the "lesser" teams. That means blowing out the real bad teams and having comfortable enough leads over mediocre teams, so Woody doesn't have to play JJ 40+ minutes against the likes of New Jersey and Sacramento. When you do that, Woody can rest JJ and the others most of the 4th quarter. Now against the good and great teams, I DO NOT WANT JJ PLAYING LESS THAN 34 MINUTES, just so our bench can get time in some set rotation. We're going to need him against those teams more than the bench. Put Josh Smith in that same category as well. His minutes need to go up when we play the good teams. Against bad teams: 28 - 30 min/gm Against average teams: 33 - 35 min/gm Against good teams: 37+ min/gm It's not a star player in this league in which that guy doesn't have to play big minutes on some nights. So if Woody has to adjust the minutes in order for us to win, then by all means do it. Because although the fans want to see some of the minutes reduced, we'll be the first ones crying when we lose games, and JJ is only logging 32 minutes. And Woody will quickly find out that if Jamal doesn't have it going offensively, he definitely can't trust him to play a set number of minutes a night. He'll help kill the team on that particular night, just like he's done on past teams. At least I hope Woody will realize that. Personally, I think JJ should be playing a minimum of 35 minutes a game. That's around 4 - 5 minutes less a game than what he's been playing. In a season in which he'll play about 78 games, you're looking about a 300 - 400 minute reduction in his total minutes next season.

So what happened to the White team on Monday? According to Sekou's Twitter page, they lost by 19. Crawford probably went 4 - 17 FG in that scrimmage.

It's going to be very interesting the effect that AI will have on that young Memphis team. I personally think he's going to have a very positive effect on that squad, especially after reading the interview he did with Scoop Jackson. Iverson basically says that the situation that went down in Detroit, was due to coach Michael Curry teling him that the team would "lay down on him", if he didn't come off the bench. This was in direct contrast to what Dumars and Co. told him at the time of the Billups - Iverson trade. At that time, Iverson was brought in to "get them over the hump" ( i.e. - not get to the ECF and lose, but win and get to the NBA Finals ). So when it went down that Iverson was going to the bench, and that his team would basically quit on him if he didn't, he said that he felt that they had lied to him. It was easily one of the best sports interviews I've ever read. Iverson pulls no punches, and is honest as hell . . even about himself. Scoop did a real good job in bringing all of that out of AI Which brings us to the Grizzlies . . This team is going to be REAL INTERESTING this year. Say what you want about the attitudes and stuff, the actual talent on this squad now is pretty impressive. Now you add Iverson's intensity and leadership abilities to that squad, and you now have a team that could be very disruptive in the NBA. Not saying they're playoff-bound . . but they could damn well be close. This team has talent across the board now. He's already teling those guys "don't be satisfied with just making the playoffs". If they get off to a decent start, they're going to add a lot of losses to teams across the league. PG - Conley G - Mayo F - Rudy Gay F - Randolph C - Marc Gasol The addition of Randolph itself improves that squad from last year. Say what you want about Zebo ( Randolph ), but the dude can score and rebound from the low block and baseline. But now, you bring this off the bench? G - Iverson F - Arthur C - Thabeet Iverson is motivated as hell to prove all of those teams wrong, who passed him up. Arthur is a solid backup F to bring in the game. The wildcard is Thabeet, because so far, he's been a disappointment. But if he can become merely a defensive presence in the middle, it'll go a long way in helping that squad overall. This is potentially a top 12 offensive unit. If they can become a top 18 defensive unit, they'll have a shot to win 40 games this season. But the Iverson Watch starts tonight in Washington.

No matter how many points Marvin scores, his main goal should be to up his FG% and 3FG%. If he could shoot 48%+ FGs and 40%+ 3FG, that would be a big boost for this team. Unless we play "super up tempo", the gunner guards are going to take shots away from him. He may not reach 11 FGA this year. So if that's the case, he has to maximize every scoring chance he gets. If Smoove doesn't up his rebounding, then he does need to take it upon himself to try to grab a few more boards. It'll be nice to see him over 7 boards a game this year. A Bibby - Crawford starting backcourt would spell doom for the Hawks. JC is way too streaky offensively, is almost as bad ( if not just as bad ) as Bibby on defense, and rebounds at the same rate of a Salim Stoudamire. It would be unfair to JJ, Smoove, and Horford to ask them to cover for both Bibby AND Crawford on the defensive end.

Everybody apparantely knows about Jamal Crawford, except for Sund and a few Hawks fans. I'm telling you . . JC is equivalent to that asteroid that was about to hit Earth in the movie Armageddon. Woody MUST have a tight reign on that dude. He CANNOT let that dude with his so-called scoring ability destroy what we've built here the past 2 years. If he's going to take shots away from guys like JJ, Bibby, and Marvin, while shooting 40%, he becomes an instant problem. I'll keep saying this . . if Jamal plays efficient basketball, people better give Woody a lot of the credit for that.

That's the thing though. Woody has always placed high emphasis on the preseason, especially winning preseason games, to establish a rhythm in which to start the regular season. Last preseason, all eyes were on Marvin, and we got a glimpse then of his newly developed 3-point shot. Even Acie Law had a decent preseason last year. He just reverted back into the timid Acie, once the seasn started. Woody was giving him over 15 minutes a game to start the year, but he just didn't take advantage of it.

For me it's easy. Josh Smith. I want to see if he's gonna be true to his word, and depend less on his long range outside shot and play closer to the basket. - Has he worked on making the 15 foot jumper? - Is he attacking more? - Is he more active around the offensive glass? - Has he tried to develop one "go-to" post move? - Can he shoot 50%+ FG in the preseason? My eyes are on him.

I agree that the pressure should still be placed on Marvin to produce. That does mean that people like Crawford are going to have to be willing to get him ball when wide open. If anybody should be the beneficiary of a dynamic guard being on the team, it should be Marvin. He's going to get a lot of wide open looks and opportunities to finish on the fast break with this group of guards. Marvin averaging 17 ppg is better than Crawford averaging 17 ppg, because Marvin should be able to do it more efficiently. But because Crawford has historically been a defensive liability, starting Crawford is NOT AN OPTION. Not when you know that JJ is a good defensive 2 and Marvin is a good defensive 3. Offense doesn't win in this league. Defense and rebounding does.

Well by that criteria Buzzard, Crawford can't defend ( known as a bad defender ), can't shoot ( cause he's so streaky ), can't rebound ( probably the lowest rebound rate for a guys his size in the league ), and doesn't get to the FT line ( because he depends on the jumper so much ). The problem with Salim on the Hawks, is that we couldn't afford to give him 6 - 8 shots a game, to see if he were hot. With Salim, he had to come in the game at least making one of his first two shots, to justify him staying in the game. So if he starts out 1 - 5 FG, he becomes a liability, because he couldn't do other things to justify him being on the floor. When Salim got 20+ minutes in a game, it was either because someone was hurt, or because he was making shots. But when he was making shots, he wasn't afraid at all to take that shot from anywhere. For a guy as inefficient as he was, he was an EXTREMELY confident player. Those are all of the traits of Jamal Crawford. LOL . . and that's why I said at the time of the Jamal trade, that Jamal might get Woody fired. If Jamal misses his first 4 shots in a game, Woody either has to tell him to go into "playmaker mode" or take him out of the game altogether. Because if he's cold, and you leave him in, you can't depend on him making it up on the defensive end or crashing the boards. He's not an "intangible" type player or a player that is known for doing "the little things". He's merely a scorer. Not a SHOOTER, but a scorer. And if he's not scoring, he's damn near useless on the court. My hope is that Jamal doesn't look to score 20 ppg, but to score an EFFICIENT 13 - 15 ppg. I'd be estatic to see him average 14 ppg - 5 asst - 44% FG - 39% 3FG. That would be a GREAT SEASON for him in my book.