TheNorthCydeRises

Craw has explained this beautifully. I guess the only way to hypothetically see if it could be true or not, is to go to the virtual world. For all of you that have NBA Live 09 or NBA 2K9, you can give us an indication what a Hawk-led D-Wade team would've looked like last year. Of course, a simulated season can be highly flawed, especially considering it doesn't take into consideration of a Gilbert Arenas being out all year, or even a Flip being one of the top 6th men in the NBA. And it wouldn't surprise me to see the virtual world having the Hawks miss the playoffs in a simulation. So if you want to, please participate in this virtual experiment. - First, to make this somewhat believable for Miami, you may have to adjust the Heat's roster by switching Jermaine O'Neal, who should be in Toronto, with Shawn Marion ( who the Heat traded Shaq for ). If you have to adjust the roster before you start a season simulation, then do that. ( Keep in mind that Miami made this trade to bring another potential star to play alongside Wade . . an inside scoring star . . to balance the guard scoring that Wade brought. Especially since the Heat only won 15 games the year before. Wade missed a lot of games and was not 100% when he did play. ) - Go through an 82-game simulation of the 08 - 09 season, including playoffs. Note the records of both the Hawks and Heat, and how far they got in the playoffs. Do this for the 08 - 09 season 3 times. Make sure you do the O'Neal-Marion roster switch before each simulation. - If you want to, you could give us the basic stats that Wade and JJ had in each of those seasons. ( Games played - points - rebs - assists - stls - FG% - 3FG% - FT% ). - After you do this, do a season simulation with JJ on the Heat, and Wade on the Hawks. Don't forget to switch Jermaine O'Neal and Shawn Marion. Once again, note the record of each team and how far they got in the playoffs. Also do this 3 times. By doing this, it will not only give an indication of how the Hawks would've look with Wade, it also give us an idea of how the Heat would look with JJ.

Woody knows his team, contrary to popular belief. He knows it's a step by step process, before you challenge for a title. But I'm sure some people will even criticize him for these comments, because he's "limiting the Hawks" for merely challenging for a ECF spot, instead of a spot in the NBA Finals. Great line from Woody: "You can complain all you want about how we did it, but we did it." That, my friends, is Woody addressing all of his haters, to ESPN and AJC writers to the casual Hawk fan.

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: The light bulb has come on folks. Sund bringing in Jamal Crawford was not only to upgrade our team, it was to use him as a "worst case scenario" if we lost JJ. Crawford being JJ's replacement is exactly what will happen, if they decide that JJ isn't worth what he and his agent wants. JJ goes somewhere else, and if a trade isn't made, Crawford is our new "go-to-guy", because he's the only one on the team outside of JJ that can create his shot anytime he wants. But back to the topic of swapping Wade for JJ, and that making us a championship contender. That's only true if Josh Smith, Horford, and Marvin improve. If they don't improve, we're not beating the "Big 3" in the East . . even with Wade. Since Gasol was mentioned, it's the same situation that Kobe was in, before the Lakers pulled off the deal of the century, and got Gasol. As great as Kobe was, the Lakers weren't going nowhere because the players he had around him weren't improving. And their glaring weakness was at the PF spot. So they go out, and get a disgruntled PF on a really bad team, for damn near nothing. Because the talent around Kobe upgrated significantly with the Gasol signing, Kobe was now able to not have to do it all. The same thing applies to Wade if he were in Atlanta. If the kids around Wade didn't significantly improve their games, Wade would have to do the exact same things that JJ has had to do for the past 4 years. And while Wade can do those things better than JJ can, his efforts wouldn't get us past the big frontlines that we have to face in the East now. Orlando: Howard and Gortat Cleveland: Shaq and Varejao Boston: Garnett and Perkins And while people are giddy over the Joe Smith and Collins signing, those two aren't going to be much help to us, if Horford and Josh Smith don't play bigger than what they've been playing. If Josh still plays timidly against bigger frontlines, we're not going to be able to beat those teams ahead of us. If Horford still has major problems scoring with his back to the basket, when isolated against a man bigger than him, we're still going to have problems. All that slashing and driving to the hole Wade does is somewhat nullified, when you have big bodies and shot blockers patrolling the lane. So I say if you swapped JJ with Wade right now, and the kids don't significantly improve, you're looking at maybe a 3 - 5 win difference with D-Wade here. So if with Joe, we're currently a 51 win team . . with Wade, we'd be a 56 win team. But we'd still be in 4th place, behind the Big 3. I truly believe that Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando will all win 62+ games this year.

Thank you for saving me a lot of typing. That Miami team was a damn good unit. Just adding Wade in place of JJ, wouldn't get us past Boston, Orlando, or Cleveland. Like you said, either add Amare, or hope and pray that Josh Smith, Horford, and Marvin improve dramatically. Damn . . Zo averaged 2.7 blks in 20 minutes? Imagine if we had him as a backup center on this team.

No we wouldn't. Because you'd still need the scenario to develop that JB talked about. And that is either Smoove or Marvin would have to become a star caliber player. For Smoove, we're talking about him shooting 50+% FG, scoring 20 ppg and grabbing 10 rebs. It if's Marvin, we're talking about him scoring somewhere around 20 ppg, while shooting in the high-40% FG, and at least in the low-40% 3FG. If a team wants to win a title in this league, this is usually the formula: - at least 2 All-Star caliber players ( preferably a guard + a PF or C . . with one of those guys being at least a 1st or 2nd team All-NBA player ) - a 3rd player who can occasionally play at a star level - overall, a top 10 defensive team ( preferably a top 5 one ) If you usually don't have ALL of those components on your team, you're usually not winning a title, or in contention for one.

Exactly. If we lose JJ, we're looking at 2 options. 1) Do nothing, and let Crawford be the guy taking all of the shots at the end of the game ( unless Marvin or Smoove can become reliable enough to get the job done in this area ) 2) Make a trade to bring in another star caliber player. ( and I'm not talking about trading Mo Evans for somebody . . . It'll have to be a trade that sees Josh Smith or Al Horford leave this team, because those are the 2 guys that most people want ). Or it could be option #3 . . . re-sign JJ at a lower price The problem with that strategy, is that if LeBron and Wade switch teams, you're going to see a domino effect take place throughout the league. There are just going to be too many teams with cap space, that could possibly offer JJ more than a 15 million a year deal next summer, if they choose to do so. - Minnesota - New Jersey - LA Clippers - NY Knicks - possibly Houston ( because McGrady's contract expires next season ) - if Lebron leaves Cleveland, then Cleveland - if Wade leaves Miami, then Miami ( Hell . . . Miami could possibly do it, even if they do re-sign Wade ) Maybe a 4th option, would be to have JJ still on the market next summer, but not renounce his rights, so that the Hawks could possibly do a sign and trade for somebody(s). I understand what the Hawks are doing. They're trying to see if JJ is a guy that you can win a title with, if you have the right pieces around him. It's Russian Roulette though. I can see us losing JJ, then not being able to do anything. We'll end up the exact same way that Chicago did, when they basically lost Ben Gordon for nothing. My prediction is this . . and I said this over the summer. If the Hawks struggle, they're going to be looking to trade JJ before the trading deadline. They'll end up trading him for a cat like Kevin Martin of Sacramento, along with an expiring contract to make the numbers match . . like a Desmond Mason or somebody. And they'll try to sell us on the fact that Martin is a good shooter ( possibly even better than JJ ), and that we can rely on his shooting for the next 4 years. But like with the Danny Manning / Nique trade, the effect probably wouldn't hurt the Hawks tremendously . . until the playoffs came around. Then Martin would get really exposed as the non-defensive playing guard that he is. And we'd have 2 of those guys on the team ( Martin and Crawford ), who can score, but won't play a lick of defense. We get bounced out in the 1st round in 7 games, and all hell would break loose . . . starting with Woody being fired . . . and probably ending with Smoove being traded.

Why are people on here ( including Bucher ), act like the team in general didn't listen to Woody at times? Ler's go down the line of the guys who got playing time, and see who possibly listened to Woody most of the time last year; Johnson - yes Horford - yes Marvin - yes Flip - yes Zaza - yes West - yes Solo - yes Evans - yes Law - NO ( because he wasn't nearly as aggressive as Woody wanted him to be ) Bibby - sometimes Smith - sometimes, but tended to do his own thing most of the time . . so I guess the answer is NO When it comes to discipline and doing what Wody wants them to do, we all know who is most likely to "defy" Woody. No sense in acting like most of the team doesn't listen to Woody on a nightly basis.

I agree. I think the only time Collins shoud see time, is if Horford and Zaza are in serious foul trouble . . or if we're matched up with a big center like Shaq or Howard. I also agree with the others about Evans. At minimum, he should be playing at least 12 minutes a night. In reality, he probably should be closer to 15 - 18 minutes a night. The guy can shoot the 3-ball and is a decent defender ( when he's not trying to guard a superstar. As for Joe Smith, I'd keep him under 10 minutes, no more than 12 minutes a night. I still say that Marvin is a better PF than Joe Smith, and that Marvin should see spot minutes there each night. And I don't like the idea of Horford and Smoove playing closer to 30 min/game than 35 min/game. And we all know about Woody and young players. If Teague doesn't prove on the court, that he's a baller, he may become a situational PG, instead of one that knows he'll play 12 minutes a night. I'll believe an 11 or even a 10-man rotation from Woody, when I see it. I say that he tries to go 9-deep, with Crawford, Zaza, Evans, and either Teague or Joe Smith holding down the 9th spot. The loser between Teague and Joe Smith won't play every night.

I wonder what got to him. a) Woody telling him that we have enough 3-point gunners ( JJ, Jamal, Evans, Teague, Bibby, Marvin ) on the team now, and that he needs to rebound their misses b) He watched the games in which he played well in the playoffs, and had an "awakening" c) He lost to a 15 year old girl in a college 3-point challenge at thr Run n Shoot d) Someone at EA Sports told him that his 3-point rating was going to be 19 ( out of 100 ), in the nxt edition of NBA Live.

I know this is the vision that some of you want to see. I don't personally agree with an 11 man rotation, but I'll play along, to see how Woody could do this. The rotation would achieve these goals: - keep JJ relatively fresh and not wear him out - keep our starters from playing more than 35 min/game - enable Crawford to be a primary scoring threat when JJ is out of the game, while getting major minutes - possibly keep Horford and Josh Smith out of foul trouble. - slowly develop Teague with nightly playing time - allow Woody to go with a wide array of personnel looks Now whether all of this makes us a better team, remains to be seen. But if you want an idea of how the Hawks 11-man rotation could look like, with Woody choreographing his subs according to the time on the game clock, here's how it may look. STARTERS TO BEGIN THE GAME PG - bibby G - johnson F - marvin ( sub @ 6 ) . . . this indicates who's coming out the game and when PF - smoove C - horford ( sub @ 6 ) 1st TV TIMEOUT ( around 6 minute mark of 1st ) bibby ( sub @ 3 ) CRAWFORD . . . . ALL CAPS indicates player who entered the game johnson smoove ( sub @ 3 ) ZAZA 2nd TV TIMEOUT ( around 3 min mark of 1st ) TEAGUE crawford johnson ( sub start of 2nd ) JOE SMITH ( sub start of 2nd ) zaza (((( END OF 1ST QUARTER )))) 2nd QUARTER STARTERS teague ( sub @ 9 ) crawford EVANS ( sub @ 9 ) HORFORD ( sub @ 9 ) zaza ( sub @ 9 ) 1st TV TIMEOUT ( around 9 min mark of 2nd ) BIBBY crawford ( sub @ 6 ) MARVIN SMOOVE COLLINS ( sub @ 6 ) 2nd TV TIMEOUT ( around 6 min mark of 2nd ) bibby ( sub @ 2 ) JOHNSON ( sub @ 2 ) marvin smoove ( sub @ 2 ) HORFORD SUBSTITUTION ( around 2 min mark ) NOTE: Near the end of the 2nd quarter, Woody would routinely pull a guy out of a game if he had 2 fouls, to prevent him from picking up a cheap 3rd foul. This is where we usually saw Mario West and Solomon Jones enter the game to finish the half. He wouldn't sub them in when the last TV timeout of the quarter happened ( around the 3 min mark ). He always wait until it was under 2 minutes. In this rotation, Woody is looking to possibly protect JJ, Bibby, and Smoove. CRAWFORD EVANS marvin JOE SMITH horford (((( END OF 2ND QUARTER )))) TOTAL MINUTES PLAYED IN 1ST HALF: Bibby - 16 Johnson - 16 Marvin - 15 Smoove - 16 Horford - 15 Crawford - 14 Zaza - 9 Teague - 6 Evans - 5 Joe Smith - 5 Collins - 3 3RD QUARTER STARTING LINEUP bibby johnson ( sub @ 6 ) marvin smoove ( sub @ 6 ) horford 1st TV TIMEOUT ( around 6 min mark of 3rd ) bibby ( sub @ 3 ) CRAWFORD marvin ( sub @ 3 ) horford ( sub @ 3 ) ZAZA 2nd TV TIMEOUT ( around 3 min mark of 3rd ) TEAGUE crawford ( sub start of 4th ) JOHNSON SMOOVE zaza (((( END OF 3RD QUARTER )))) 4TH QUARTER STARTING LINEUP teague ( sub @ 9 ) johnson ( sub @ 9 ) MARVIN smoove ( sub @ 9 ) zaza ( sub @ 9 ) 1st TV TIMEOUT ( around 9 min mark of 4th ) CRAWFORD EVANS ( sub @ 6 ) marvin ( sub @ 6 ) JOE SMITH ( sub @ 6 ) HORFORD 2nd TV TIMEOUT ( around 6 min mark of 4th ) BIBBY crawford ( sub @ 3 ) JOHNSON SMOOVE horford LAST TV TIMEOUT ( around 3 min mark of 4th ) bibby johnson MARVIN smoove horford (((( END OF GAME ))) TOTAL MINUTES PLAYED: Bibby - 31 Johnson - 34 Marvin - 33 Smoove - 34 Horford - 33 Crawford - 26 Zaza - 18 Teague - 12 Evans - 8 Joe Smith - 8 Collins - 3

What if it's Josh Smith + a filler for Amare Stoudamire in a sign and trade next summer. Do you pull the trigger then? This is assuming that Amare is back 100% and is putting up his usual 21 pts - 9 rebs - 50%+ FG - 75%+ FT

Exactly. That's easily the #2 play.

Championships are won in "windows", you are correct. But a team has to be in a window first, to have that "window of opportunity". But to see the effect of a major trade, all you have to do is look at what some of the other teams that have won titles, have done in recent years. - Lakers acquired Pau Gasol in a trade for basically nothing, to put them over the top. Without that deal, the Lakers don't get to Finals level. Odom, their young center Bynum, and guys like Luke Walton and Jordan Farmar wouldn't have helped Kobe enoiugh to get them over the top. - a fledgling Boston literally trades away their entire young crew ( future star Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Delonte West, Sebastian Telfair, draft pick Jeff Green, and others ), to obtain KG and Ray Allen. They go from a young team with "potential" to NBA Champs overnight. - Miami basically acquires Shaq in exchange for Lamar Odom, a year after Odom and D-Wade got Miami into the playoffs and won a few games. The trade immeadiately pays off for Miami, bringing them a title in year 2. All 3 of those teams could've waited for their young talent to develop, much like the Bulls did with Hinrich, Deng, and Gordon, when they made their playoff run a few years back. Unfortunately for the Bulls, injuries and the stagnant development of Hinrich and Deng, put them back a notch. Rose may save them though. But now they're without Gordon, arguably their best player. And they lose him for basically nothing. The fact is that this season is pretty critical for the future makeup of the team and our overall direction. Sund has to decide first if JJ is the guy we should build around or not. If not, he has to find the guy to replace him . . . probably via a trade for another star who couldn't get it done somewhere else. If JJ is the guy, and none of our kids take a real quantum leap in their development, we may have to move one of them to upgrade the squad. Most everyone may be cool with moving Marvin, but the other teams are going to want Josh Smith or Horford. The question then becomes, will Sund have the balls to move one of those guys, if it means bringing in a top notch PF or C ( much like what Boston did with Al Jefferson, to get KG ). I'm not against staying with the status quo, if these guys continue to improve. Just understand that the only team in recent years that have won with their core guys developing into stars, without doing a major trade or free agent signing to bring in a star talent . . . is San Antonio. I do agree that the Hawks ( as is right now ) are at least 2 years from being an NBA Finals contender. But for that to happen, JJ needs to become at least a 2nd team All-NBA player, and one of the kids need to reach an All-Star caliber level. Without that, we're simply the Utah Jazz . . a perennial playoff team with virtually no shot to win a title. That's not what many want to hear, but that's not necessarily a horrible thing either.

And to piggy back on this a bit, most people who played against Jordan and Bird said that both were NOTORIOUS trash talkers during their playing days. Possible Jordan tweets: - "I kno we're gonna lose in the Boston Garden, so I'm just gonna try to score 70 points." - "Magic . . Smagic. I just had a 32 pt, 8reb, 8 asst season, and I'm NOT the best player in the league? Really?" - "Me and Pat ( Ewing ) have a little wager that I won't dunk on him in this playoff series. U kno I'm gonna win that bet haha." - "I told Reggie Miller that he looked like a lightskin alien with a bad Kid n Play haircut. That's why he tried to fight me. He's a primadonna lil b***h." - "I didn't push Byron Russell. All I did was put my hand on him. I'm Michael JORDAN. I don't need to push no damn body. And I didn't foul Karl when I stole the ball from him either." - "I don't have a gambling problem. I WIN when I gamble. Charles is the one with the problem." - "I LOVE the fact that I kept Gary, Patrick, Charles, John, Karl, Reggie, Clyde and Alonzo from winning a title in the 90s. I'll remind them of that everytime I see them." - "So Wilt said he's had over 20,000 women huh? I could easily get to that number, if I weren't married. Everybody wants to be LIKE MIKE and WITH MIKE!!!" - "Damn . . Juanita took my azz to the cleaners. That'll be the last time I get married." - "People don't know that I started shaving my head, not for a fashion statement . . but because my hairline was receding." Bird tweets: - "How many times are they gonna replay that Michigan St game . . geez?" - "People call me ugly, but Dennis, Robert, and Kevin are super ugly". - "I see all these Black players still underestimate my game. They'll learn soon enough. Silly negroes." - "I should've won 5 rings. All we needed was a PG that could defend AND shoot. I love Dennis, but he was a mason . . a bricklayer." - "Isaiah's an idiot. I set him up beautifully to steal that ball in that Detroit playoff series." - "WTF @ Nique . . thinking he could stop me." - "I told Jerry Sichsting (sp) . . "the next time he says or does something to you, you take his f***in head off." I'm proud of Jerry." - "These Boston chicks are hideous. Give me a Midwest woman any day of the week." - "Isaiah needs to STFU. I'd be an "average" player if I were black? GTFOH!!! He couldn't guard my azz, that's for sure!"

Hopefully you're right. I know everybody wants a balanced lineup in which we can go 10 or 11 deep. But if guy like Joe Smith is playing close to 15 - 20 minutes a night, that means that one of our young frontline players is struggling or hurt. Me personally, I want Josh Smith and Horford playing somewhere between 32 - 36 minutes a night. And if I'm the coach, I'm not cutting those guys down to 26 - 30 minutes a game, just to play the guys that we added to the team more minutes. And I'm one of those guys that likes Marvin playing PF in short stretches. He was pretty good last year, when he played the 4. But that may not be possible if we want to not only get Joe Smith playing time, but also get Horford some minutes at the 4. Since we pretty much know what the roster will be, this could be the Hawks 11-man rotation, if a priority was made to play everybody: PG: Bibby ( 30 ) - Teague ( 12 ) - Crawford ( 6 ) G: JJ ( 28 ) - Crawford ( 20 ) F: Marvin ( 32 ) - Evans ( 8 ) - JJ ( 8 ) PF: Smoove ( 32 ) - Joe Smith ( 8 ) - Horford ( 8 ) C: Horford ( 24 ) - Zaza ( 18 ) - Collins ( 6 ) Total Minutes: JJ - 36 Horford - 32 Smith - 32 Marvin - 32 Bibby - 30 Crawford - 26 Zaza - 18 Teague - 12 Evans - 8 Joe Smith - 8 Collins - 4 The rotation and minutes breakdown I'd rather see: PG: Bibby ( 30 ) - Teague ( 12 ) - Crawford ( 6 ) G: JJ ( 28 ) - Crawford ( 20 ) F: Marvin ( 28 ) - Evans ( 12 ) - JJ ( 8 ) PF: Josh Smith ( 34 ) - Horford ( 8 ) - Marvin ( 6 ) C: Horford ( 28 ) - Zaza ( 20 ) Total minutes: JJ - 36 Horford - 36 Josh Smith - 34 Marvin - 34 Bibby - 30 Crawford - 26 Zaza - 20 Evans - 12 Teague - 12 Collins and Joe Smith would only play, if guys were in foul trouble or if someone was hurt. They wouldn't be part of a regular nightly rotation.

As a matter of fact, as a mid-range shooter, Joe Smith is actually more comparable to Josh Smith, than anybody else. he shot 33% on his jumpers. This is why some of ya'll really need to stop overhyping some of these moves we made. Joe Smith isn't a great mid range shooter. Collins isn't a great interior defender. These guys are just merely fill-ins for our main guys. Joe Smith should never play more than 10 minutes a night.

Now more than ever, Mario West should NEVER play, unless we have 2 guards hurt. And now more than ever, Josh Smith should NEVER play the 3. I would only consider Smith at the 3, if we had a PF or C that was a good scorer or defender. Calling Joe Smith a "deadly" mid range shooter, is misleading as heck. Big Z ( Ilgauskas ) is a "deadly" mid range shooting big man. Joe Smith is nowhere near the threat that Z is. Joe Smith may not be a better mid range shooter than Horford. Shoot, he's just Joe Smith folks, not Bill Laimbeer. JJ Bibby Crawford Teague Mo Evans ( the guy you're forgetting ) . . are the guys that will guard the 1 or the 2. If Teague can come in and effectively guard the PG position, he'll be the guy that plays most with Crawford in the game. If Teague isn't ready, and if Woody wants to play Crawford more at the point, you'll see a Crawford - JJ backcourt, with Evans wither playing the SF or Evans playing the SG and Marvin at PF. And the advantage a Bibby - Crawford attack gives you, is obviously on the offensive end, especially from 3 point range ( if both are hot ). With these 2 at the guards, JJ could essentially become a LeBron James type playmaker/scorer, because of the options he'll have. If you double him, he has Crawford or Bibby to toss the ball out to for 3. Add Marvin to that mix too, if Woody wanted to get really creative, and play Marvin at the 4 for a short stretch. PG - G - SF combos I'd rather see, before I'd want to see West or Smith play in those spots: Bibby - JJ - Marvin Bibby - Crawford - Marvin Bibby - Evans - Marvin Bibby - Crawford - JJ Teague - Crawford - JJ Teague - Crawford - Marvin Teague - Crawford - Evans Crawford - JJ - Marvin Crawford - Evans - Marvin Woody isn't crazy. He won't play Bibby and Crawford together much, unless both are red hot from the outside. But you do have to play them together some, with JJ at the 3, just to see how lethal of a scoring trio they can be.

If the choice was strictly between Bibby and Flip, I'd sign Bibby first, strictly off of his performance in the playoffs. Flip, while he had a great 2nd half of the season, completely sold us out in the playoffs. That being said, Bibby may have been in a little better position to get more money out of the Hawks, if Crawford wasn't here. Howeva . . . My contention was to go after Marcus Camby with a sign and trade involving Speedy and Evans ( or Law ). But seeing that almost no activity was even rumored for Camby, I guess that wouldn't be possible. The other option, was to go after Andre Miller, who I think would be a better fit for this team. Portland got Miller for a 3 yr - 21 mill or so deal. I would've liked the Hawks to go after him, for his ability to go to the hole and score in the post on PGs. He's a penetrating PG that could take some of the playmaking responsibilities off of JJ, and have JJ get more open looks as a scorer. So if Miller ( or Bibby ) and Law are the PGs, do we still go after Flip? I think so. With 3 small guards projected on the roster, plus SPEEDY'S useless azz, I also thinks that changes our draft strategy. I think the only reason we went after Teague, was because of the decision early on NOT to bring Flip back. I think the Hawks also gave more value to having Zaza play minutes at center, than they did Flip being the scoring spark plug off the bench. So Flip, in the numbers game, was expendible. Either that, or Teague served as the Plan C, if we somehow lost both Bibby and Flip to free agency, and we had to roll with a Law - Teague - Speedy combo at PG. So if we didn't make the Crawford trade: 1) draft Dejuan Blair or Tyler Hansbrough ( because rebounding would be still a need ) 2) re-sign Bibby 3) re-sign Zaza 4) re-sign Flip ( only if enough money is left over to adequately do a deal for Marvin that keeps us under the luxury tax ) 5) re-sign Marvin ( I doubt we'd have enough money left over to sign a Joe Smith or a Jason Collins ) 14 man roster: PG: Bibby ( or Miller ) - Law - Speedy G: Johnson - Flip - West F: Marvin - Evans - Koralev PF: Smith - ( Blair or Hansbrough ) C: Horford - Zaza - Siler It'll be a lineup of less experience but with young guys with "potential". It's also a lineup that I believe that Woody wouldn't go more than 9-deep at. So that means that Law or Evans and either Blair or Hansbrough wouldn't play every night.

All I know is that over the years ( even last year ) . . when JJ went to the bench, this team seemed to totally come apart at the seams on both offense and defense. You'd see 9 point leads quickly shrink to 2 point leads . . and 2 point decifits baloon to 9 point leads . . when JJ is out of a game. How well Jamal Crawford plays will determine how much rest JJ can get on a game by game basis. He can't come into a game in the 2nd quarter while JJ is out, and go 1 - 5 FG during a 4 - 6 minute stretch. That's how runs start.

LOL . . yep. That's why you pretty much have to give Woody a pass for that season. Ty Lue actually had a decent season though ( 13.5 ppg - 5.4 asst - 1.7 TOs - - - 46% FG - 36% 3FG - 87% FT) http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2005.html LOL . . that team was one of the worst offensive AND defensive teams in the leauge that year. That's hard to do . . . suck in both categories.

If Flip didn't sell us out in the playoffs, I think he'd still be here. When the preseason cranks up in about 6 weeks, people are going to see the strengths and weaknesses of Crawford. Most of all though, they're going to see how he'd much rather settle for the long and mid-range jumper, than to go all the way to the hole. They'll also see that this guy has a knack of drawing fouls on jumpshots. He's the wildcard of the team now. If he's cold, it'll all be back on JJ's shoulders . . as usual.

Future tweets from JJ: - "I won the 5K kissin bet. But that b***h bit my bottom lip." - "These h*es at Strokers neva treat a brotha right in VIP. I shoud've went 2 Body Tap." - "I like when our fans boo Smoove when he shoots 3s. I tell him they not sayin BOOOO, they sayin SMOOOOV. Thats why he keep shootin haha." - "Damn, another D-Wade commercial? What da f*** I gotta do to get a good TV ad?" - "Woody is my dude, but if he get an EXT before me, ATL can kiss my a** goodbye!" - "Ima name my cru like Bibby did his. He has 'Team Dime'. Ima name my boys "Deuce's Wild". - "i saw Elle Duncan frm V103 today. Ima hit that before the season starts . . WATCH!" - "On the real tho, Violet Palmer got a FAT A**!! Ima brush up against that during the game on "accident". Watch her smile tho." - "ISO JOE all day . . erry day. That's why we won 47 last year." JJ needs to be given two speeches: 1) the "Twitter is the Debil" speech . . .and 2) "They" don't like ghetto" speech. Once that happens, the Twitter page will either come down or he'll change up what he says.

Excellent post . . and the God's honest truth. Some of them were saying that exact thing last year. Wondering if the Hawks would be better off getting off to a slow start, so that Woody would be fired. Then we start out 6 - 0 . . and 22 - 11 . . and their hopes and dreams were dashed. Let the church say Amen. The hate and flat out disrespect that dude receives is uncalled for. It's one thing to call out his flaws. It's another thing to not give him a shread of credit for our improvement. LOL . . I like how people got mad at him back in 07 - 08, for shortening the rotation, just so we could make the playoffs and save his job. Damn him for that! And the best post scorer he's ever had is STILL Al Harrington.

Since I'm a day late, happy belated b-day GM. Woody should invite GM to speak to the Hawks on opening night, just so he can give his free throw speech. I know the Hawks lost at least 5 games last year, strictly off of horrible FT shooting. Hawksquawk numerology: - GM is 73 years old - 7 + 3 = 10 - 1962 was 37 years ago. - 1 + 9 + 6 + 2 + 3 + 7 = 28 - JJ is 28 - 2 + 8 = 10 - we're going into the 09 - 10 season. - Hawks last won championship in 1958. - Woody was born in 1958. - 2010 - 1958 = 52 - Woody will turn 52 in 2010 - JJ will be 29 in 2010 - 5 + 2 = 7 ( universal lucky number ) - 2 + 9 = 11 ( the other universal lucky number ) - Ice Cube quote "I was breakin em with the 7 . . 7 - 11 . . 7 - 11 . . 7 even back door little JOE." Everything is lining up for a championship in 2010.

It's not even about loyalty to me with Woody. I think it's common sense that we keep him around from a cohesion and financial standpoint. If the ASG said tomorrow that Woody was fired and we hired Avery Johnson or Hubie Brown, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me. But all you have to do, is look at the teams that have fired coaches because they couldn't advance to that next level, and see whio they have hired. - Detroit and Minnesota fire Flip . . and they go down - Phoenix fire D'Antoni . . and they go down ( albeit still good ) - Indiana fire Carlisle . . and they go down - Milwaukee fire Porter . . and they go down - New Jersey fire Byron Soott . . and they go down - Kings fire Adleman . . and they go down - Dallas fires Avery . . and they're about the same with Carlisle In each of these cases though, you could say that all of those teams started to level off or were going down, when those coaches got fired. In Woody's case, we still don't know what the ceiling of the team is, but people still want him fired. Why? To hire that "great" goach that will get us over the hump? And the best name people can come up with is Jeff Van Gundy? ( a guy whose success came when he was coaching a Hall of Fame center in Patrick Ewing . . but couldn't do jack T-Mac or Steve Francis ) But if you noticed with the examples I gave, almost every single one of those teams hired either an assistant coach to replace the coach they had past success with . . or they flat out hired a cheaper former head coach. And people don't think the same will happen in Atlanta if Woody is fired?