Packfill

Only time will tell. But what if the 2005 draft parallels the 1999 draft where Charlotte took stud college point guard Baron Davis and passed on high school phenom Jonathan Bender, whom Indy took two picks later? Now, Baron is a little overrated but he certainly has more value then Bender. A bigger problem with your analogy is that in 1995 while Stoudamire was an experienced college player, Garnett was a high schooler. In 2005, Paul came out after his sophmore year, and is only a year older the Marvin, who had the benefit of playing a year of college ball - rather then being a totally green high schooler. Point is, we do not know.

Honestly, I don't think Salim warrants a large role on this team, or any team really. He is a guy who you play if he is shooting really well and bench the rest of the time.

I will also go on record as saying I don't want him. Unless the team is gearing up to win a championship in the next year or two I do not see the point.

Quote: Morrison's a good player. also the #1 thing he brings to the table is what the Hawks need the most.... the burning desire to win no matter the cost. this team just doesn't have it. unfortunately Billy's poor drafting (IMO) has cornered us into not being able to even look at the guy. The funny thing is that some of the people that bash Morrison are the same people who think Bargnani should be the pick. The thing is, neither is a great athlete by NBA standards and other then a few inches in height, they are similar players with similar skills. I would happily take the shorter player if he plays with heart over the taller guy that does not play with heart. Not saying Bargnani does not have heart - impossible to tell from the limited exposure most of us have of his game - but just something to think about.

Quote: No knock on Bargnani or nothing... and i have to admit, i never seen the guy player (excluding short highlight clips). *btw, highlight clips mean absolutely nothing. anyone could look good on highlights. hell, i bet half of us would look like really good prospects if we gather a highlight reel for ourselves. but back to my point. while i dont know much about this kid, comparing the best Euro prospect to Dirk every year has to stop. i honestly believe DIRK is a top 5 player in this league. The MAVs see him as UNTOUCHABLE. The guy has an effortless release and is a sharpshooter (regardless of his height). he, similar to LEBRON, is a freak of nature. 7 footer doing the things he does. I agree, it is unfair to compare anyone to a player the caliber of Dirk, just as it is unfair to compare another player to LeBron. The Dirks and LeBron's of this world are the exception, not the rule.

Quote: To be honest, if we somehow moved down with like NOH then I'd strongly have to consider a combo of Shelden and Rondo or O'Bryant and Rondo. I think that would be a great move. Realistically, none of the guys in this draft seem like franchise players so might as well fill some needs with some very athletic, talented players with excellent upside. If both those guys developed into contributors the Hawks defensive shortcomings would be a thing of the past. JJ, Smoove and Marvin presumably could handle the load offensively.

Quote: I think we will see more production from ZaZa when he gets some help underneath. If JJ does imcrase his numbers, that's probably not a good thing for us. Could not agree more. If JJ's numbers increase dramatically it likely means none of the young players are filling Al's void (assuming Al is no longer with the team). Now, if the team is winning that is not such a bad thing but if they are not improving in the win column then that is not a good thing.

Agreed. Just saying that we are not in line for a Lebron like prize.

Quote: Quote: You are crazy. Ben Wallace is exactly the type of guy the Hawks need. Oh yeah just what we need. To overpay for a guy that would not make us anything more than fringe playoff team for 3 years before his age and money made him consider retirement. Dude, if the Hawks don't acquire someone with some interior defense skills like Ben Wallace they won't even be a fringe playoff team. Consider this years playoff teams - those teams that have advanced out of the first round relied heavily on veteran players - i.e., guys older then 30. Do you think it is a coincidence that the Clippers started to win when they brought in veterans Sam Cassell and Cuttino Mobley? Do you think the Cavs where smoking something when they brought in a veteran like Donyell Marshall? Was Detroit just lucky to win with an experienced roster? Think about it. Maybe the Hawks are not at the point yet where they want to think about winning, but they need to make that mental adjustment in the next year or two.

Quote: Someone made a very good point the other day. People complain about how small we will be down low if Marvin/Smoove play downlow but the fact of the matter is people are exaggerating how small they are. Here's the thing 6'9 is not that small, and seeing that these guys are still kids it is very likely that one of them or possibly both could still be growing. I myself, put on an extra inch before my 20th birthday and Marvin could do the same. Smoove could grow before his 21st. You can still grow until you are 25 years old, believe it or not. So it's very possible that either Smoover or Marvin could reach 6'10, hell one of them could already be 6'10. Maybe both. Add the fact that they both will be hitting the weights, and it makes it an even bigger exaggeration of how small we would be with one of them playing down low. Maybe, but likely not. Most people I know where done growing at 17-18. They could have a David Robinson like growth spurt but I wouldn't count on it. Plus, both measured in at around 6'7" without shoes at their official weight-ins so they have a ways to go.

Probably, but he is does not appear to be a great prize as far as number one picks go.

Quote: Quote: 20 PPG his rookie year? Yeah maybe if he plays the Toronto Raptors for 82 games. You have to be kidding me with that number. This guy's game will transition to the next level better than Redick's but not THAT much better. Why is that? Carmelo averaged 22 at syracuse, then went on to average 21 as a rookie in the pros. Morisson averaged 28 in college, with every other team focused exclusively on stopping him, but it's impossible for him to average 20 in the pros, even if he goes to the right situation? I don't see why. The man is a natural born scorer. I think Carmelo is a good comparison to Morrison. Carmelo really is not that athletic by NBA standards. The big difference is Carmelo did that as a freshman so there was obvious room for growth. Not sure if Morrison will make the transition as well as Carmelo but don't think there is a huge athletic gap between the two. Plus Morrison definitely has a better, more consistent shot.

Definitely worth a look in round two.

Quote: That is exactly my point!!! You think Boston is kicking itself for trading Joe Johnson in year 1? I know they are!! They traded away a potential superstar in JJ. It took at least 3 years before JJ started realizing his talents. And some you fools are talking about trading away Marvin and Salim year 1. I guarantee if that were to happen (It won't...BK is not that stupid) those same fools would be on this forum talking about we should have kept them a few more years before trading them. It is just very dumb and stupid to trade a player year 1 in any professional sport and BK knows this. If we trade Marvin they need to move this team to another city, because we will never build anything worth looking at. The Marvin evaluation talk shouldn't start until AFTER year 3. Poor Celtics fans. They gave up on Chancey Billups in his first year as well. Utah may be over the Dominique trade by now. There are, however, legions of examples where young guys were traded and the team that gave them away are no worse off. Think the Clippers really miss Darius Miles? Is Vancuver really pissed about jettisoning a young Antonio Daniels? Is Chicago really pissed about trading away Eddie Curry? Does Golden State regret trading Billy Owens for Mitch Richmond? Did Indiana do well by trading the Antonio Davis for a draft pick that ended up being Johnathan Bender?

This is the kind of stuff that really scares the crap out of me about Bargnani. There are so many conflicting reports from reputable and non-reputable sources it is hard to get a real feel for what his game is like. If he is a perimeter player I don't care if he is 8' tall, he makes no sense for the Hawks.

Quote: That's the status of the NBA today . . . . it is built on projects. And everyone says that guys will be two, three projects, but that is a substantial portion of the entire league. Whether he is an option for us will be his team workouts and where we pick. Agree completely that the NBA is all about projects these days - the marketing people should really think about contacting Home Depot since there are some obvious synergies between the two businesses. From a fans perspective, I really do not like the idea of so many young "projects" being in the NBA. I really wish guys like Marvin Williams and Josh Smith would go to college and play at least three years before going pro. There are the obvious exceptions like LeBron, but we have to remember he is the exception and not the rule.

No question he had the better year, and really no doubt he should be picked much higher. I guess my impression of Aldridge was really affected by that LSU game. O'Bryant is a big time project and risk pick, but he does posses the size and athleticism that the Hawks need. Whether that size and athleticism translates into some semblance of production is unknown.

My big concern with Splitter is the rumors about his buyout - will he actually be available to play next season? If not, I would pass on him in favor of O'Bryant. I definitely liked what I saw of O'Bryant in the tournament. Granted it is very small sample set but outside of Noah, Big Baby and Thomas there wasn't a more impressive big man. Aldridge looked decidedly mediocre.

That is encouraging. If he could develop he is the player in the draft, outside of Aldridge, who best fits what the Hawks need (i.e., athletic, defensive oriented big man).

Quote: Yeah I guess that may be true. Not sure how to approach this situation. I guess I've just never been a fan of Marion b/c I don't really like his game but he is obviously productive. Just like Richard Jefferson, they are wing players which is something that we actually DO have and I really don't want to give up on them yet. I also don't want to pay 10-13 Million to either. I'm assuming Phoenix wants to save money by moving Marion so that cancels out Harrington. I surely don't want to take on salary by taking Marion so that cancels out that idea. I'd strongly consider Harrington/Salim for Marion but that's it. I'd rather look at other options. If we are getting another wing, he must be able to handle the ball. Richard Jefferson > Marion there. I agree that it does not make a whole lot of sense to trade for Jefferson or Marion given that the team already has depth at forward. That said, both are very good players and if we did trade them I would not be adverse to trading one of the young guys to fill the remaining holes in the roster.

Quote: I have to say no to Shawn Marion just b/c we need to use Al to net us a PG/C and I don't think Marion is a max-type player. Take away Steve Nash and who knows what happens. Marion was an all-star before Nash showed up.

You are crazy. Ben Wallace is exactly the type of guy the Hawks need.

I would take Roy or Foye over Brewer.

I agree with Exodus. Salim can shoot and that is about it. He is looking at a Tony Delk like career.

No to Francis. He would be a franchise killer.