Packfill

Quote: What's amazing is while he gets accused of not passing the ball, he still has games where he has 10-15 assists. I think it's more of a point of him not having anyone he trusts to pass the ball to. If the shots aren't dropping, he gives it up. Chillzatl, have you heard anything to show any validity to the Hawks even having a resonable shot at getting Iverson or whether or not they're seriously entertaining this? People said the same thing about Jason Terry before he was run out of town.

I say no. Iverson is a great talent but what is the point of adding him when it would still leave the team bereft of an inside presence? Plus don't you think he would get a little cranky with the growing pains of the young players? Also, Josh Childress is the exact type of complimentary player you want to have playing with AI, so giving him up in the deal would not make alot of sense.

He has a max or near max contract. It would limit flexibility down the road since JJ is already inked to a big deal.

Quote: I SERIOUSLY doubt that we could get RJ for Al, but if that was truly possible I wouldnt even have to think for a second about the deal. RJ would instantly improve our defense by leaps and bounds and we would be a much better up tempo team with him than with Al. There are plenty of minutes at the 3-4 for Smoove, Marvin, and RJ, especially if we go small and play Smoove at the 5 for a little bit each game. I would make that trade any day of the week as well. But I think we would need to sweeten it to make NJ even consider it so we would likely have to throw Marvin or Childress in the deal, which I would be fine with to get a player of RJ's caliber.

Quote: I think you could make a good case for either MSG or Boston, but I voted Boston just because to me it has more mystique and is more recognizeable visually. If the real Boston Garden was still standing I would agree with you. The new arena that replaced the garden lacks the same appeal. Remember the Bruins game with the fog? MSG wins for me, but having been there many time it really is not all that great an arena, it is dated in comparison to the Phil. There has been some efforts to build a new one but it is unlikely at this time.

BK is like the CEO of a small start-up company. He does a good job assembling some talent but ultimately he is not the guy with the vision to get that talent to work towards a cingular goal. Nor does he poses the demeanor to be the company front man for the IPO - he would turn off too many potential investors during the road show. Unless something drastic happens, BK will be given another year to acquire talent and then will be shown the door. The next GM will come in and hopefuly make that one key move that brings the team together and that GM will help launch the Hawks into the playoffs and beyond.

Quote: neither one is a pure SF or a pure PF at this point. Do you see pure PF's be successful with post moves like Smith's? Not really. Do you see pure SF's be successful with a handle as bad as Smith's? Not really. Do you see pure SF's block shots in the post like Smith? Not really. Do you see pure PF's shoot long jumpers / 3s and slash like Smith? Not really. They are young players who need to grow and whose final positions is as of yet undetermined. Why is this so hard to understand? If your personal belief is that they both will eventually become SF's, that's fine, but it's just your guess. There is no question that the NBA has evolved in the last dozen years. The biggest change is the arrival of multi-skilled big men (i.e., those guys 6'10" and taller that no longer have to stay within 8 feet of the basket). Garnett is the embodiment of the new generation, but he has a host of contemporaries including Dirk, Rasheed, Odom, Kukoc, Webber, Kirilenko, etc. Essentially, these guys are all supersized small forwards who, because of their size, have the physical ability to play in the post. There is no question that Josh Smith and Marvin Williams have the potential to develop well rounded skills, but neither have the god-given size to truly bang with the big boys. Not to say the couldn't on a limited basis, but i the grand scheme of things the front office will have to decide how to optimize their talent. From the games I have seen, both appear to be natural small forwards. You may disagree, but outside of Josh Smith's shot blocking skills is there anything that suggests either of these guys is anything other then a small forward?

You can not pick someone like Boozer up without making some other moves - i.e., where do all the forwards play.

Quote: And you are dead wrong. The foundation of the Memphis Grizzlies is centered around Pau Gasol and Shane Battier. Everything around them has been very fluid during Jerry West's term as the GM there. The only positive move he has made that helps that team long term was trading his mistake draft pick Drew Gooden for Mike Miller. That's it. Jerry West's drafts with the Grizzlies have been horrible. He has not produced a single starter for his team via the draft. He had the opportunity to take Amare Stoudemire instead of Drew Gooden. Billy Knight would have drafted Stoudemire, guaranteed. That's the type of move BK makes. If it weren't for BK's decision to draft Pau and Shane, the Grizzlies wouldn't be a playoff team. Billy was just never given the time to see it through and finish what he started in Memphis. As for BK's draft picks in Atlanta, all have exceeded expectations thus far: What Boris Diaw is doing in Phoenix is self explanatory. Last time I checked, Boris was drafted by BK based on what BK thought he could become along with the fact that his skill set matched very well with Jason Terry at the time. Josh Childress has the third highest PER rating from the 2004 draft, tied with Emeka Okafor and behind only Dwight Howard and Al Jefferson in that stat. Josh Smith is either 6th or 7th in PER rating from that draft class. From the 2005 class, the only player that improved as much as Marvin did throughout the year was Raymond Felton. Marvin will do nothing but continue the improvement he had during his rookie season, and he's going to be just 20 years old when the 2006-2007 season starts. The foundation for what was built by BK in Memphis? That team has no chance of winning a championship. BK has one decent draft which was made possible by Babcock and he is a genius? The fact of the matter is no team has won under his watch. He can find talent but has no clue how to put an organization or team together which can work together to win games. It was not until West came in and built a "team" that they won anything.

I would do that trade in a heartbeat, but no way Portland would.

Quote: Quote: Outside of Smith and Diaw (who had to go elsewhere to re-discover his game because he didn't have much of one here), who else has really exceeded expectations? That's half of the 4 1st rounders he's drafted. Plus he got what seems like a long term contributor out of the second round, which isn't bad. Who would that be? Ivey, Donta, Salim? Donta probably has the most potential of the bunch but he will be hard pressed to show it behind the myriad of other small forwards currently on the roster. Ivey is lucky to be in the NBA at this point. Salim is a hired gun, nothing more really than an Eddie House. Maybe he becomes a solid bench scorer but he is never going to get extended minutes on this team with JJ in front of him.

Quote: No, but you criticizing every move Billy makes and trying to say what he should be doing is the equivalent of you trying to tell me how to treat something like focal segmental glomerulosclerosis. He's simply telling you what I would tell you. Sit back, relax, and watch the professional do his job. Now I know why you like BK so much. Let's face it, BK has never built a winning team. His two greatest accomplishments are (1) apprenticing with Donnie Walsh and (2) fleecing Pete Babcock in a trade. Other than Pau Gasol and Josh Smith has any draft pick of his exceeded expectations? Not exactly a lot to hold your hat on. On the other hand, he has one of the all-time worst records as a GM, has hired some of the worst coaches in NBA history and has a proven track record of making endlessly duplicative draft picks.

That is fine, but he is still not a center (and is likely two plus years away from filling out enough to play center), so he would need to play power forward leaving Josh Smith or Marvin on the bench. It just presents a bit of a problem.

Quote: Quote: That is kind of an unfair assessment. The Hawks have some great young talent, but it is largely redundant talent. Given the nature of the draft, the Hawks probably draft a real power forward this summer and trade one of the small forwards for a legit point guard. A real power forward would help mask Zaza's deficiencies in the paint. Those moves would result in a better team. People want to compare the Hawks to the Suns or Pistons because of their untraditional line-ups but until the Hawks get a two-time MVP or 4-time defensive player of the year such comparisons are crap and we need to get a little more traditional. how are the listed players redundant? all three can be on the floor together. Well, because the Hawks previous 4 first round picks were used on small forwards. Bargnani (or Thomas, Williams, etc.) is another forward, though at least argueably a real power forward. Assuming he is a power forward, then he will be on the floor with either Marvin or Josh Smith at the Small Forward position. Josh Childress is a more than capable reserve at that same position. So ergo, the Hawks have some redundancy and would be best served by trading a redundant talent for an area of critical need.

Quote: Quote: Drafting Bargnani means Smoove or Marvin pretty much has to be traded to fill the gaps in the roster at the point and center positions. No it could just mean the end of Al Harrington. Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Bargnani could all co-exist in our frontcourt. Zaza would be nice size off the bench. You could do that but why? Two of the three would not be playing in their optimal positions and there still is no real interior defense outside of Josh Smith's shotblocking. From the videoclips and photos I have seen Bargnani is very skinny and would not offer much more in the way of defense then Zaza.

I rather Thomas than Bargnani, but could live with either so long as one forward is traded to fill some of the holes. It just doesn't make sense to have 4 really good forwards with total crap at point guard and center.

That is kind of an unfair assessment. The Hawks have some great young talent, but it is largely redundant talent. Given the nature of the draft, the Hawks probably draft a real power forward this summer and trade one of the small forwards for a legit point guard. A real power forward would help mask Zaza's deficiencies in the paint. Those moves would result in a better team. People want to compare the Hawks to the Suns or Pistons because of their untraditional line-ups but until the Hawks get a two-time MVP or 4-time defensive player of the year such comparisons are crap and we need to get a little more traditional.

Quote: Quote: Remember, this article was from last year..I only posted it to show Bravo the BK did personally scout euro players..Maybe BK has tempered his vision since then.. Ok well there you go. Like I said, BK made it very clear that our issue is lack of big men, and Bernie made it very clear that no SF's are wanted now. Even a guy with a BPA mentality is going to realize when too much is too much. Let us hope that is the case. I still am having trouble envisioning how the Hawks give time to all their forwards if they draft someone like Thomas, Bargnani or Williams. Aldridge, Splitter and O'Bryant you can at least make the argument that they can play minutes at center. I know Al will likely be out of the equation but Smoove, Marvin and Childress will all need more minutes to see exactly what it is they can do.

Agreed. Obviously he has potential but it is real difficult to pin any sort of hope on him as far as becoming the teams interior defensive presence. I rather draft a prospect a little further along in the development stage like Patrick O'Bryant (even though he is far from a sure thing as well).

Didn't they say the same thing about Pavel Podkolzine?

Definitely an interesting question. Drafting Bargnani means adding another talented forward, which is good when viewed in a vacuum, but bad when you consider the fact that the Hawks last for first round draft picks were for forwards. Drafting Bargnani means Smoove or Marvin pretty much has to be traded to fill the gaps in the roster at the point and center positions. BK would need to decide whether he likes a forward tandem of Bargnani and either Smoove or Marvin (with Childress in reserve) or Smoove and Marvin. For some reason, some people on this board seem to get upset when you mention these facts.

Quote: Quote: Sene is a player that is probably more than a year away from being a big minute contributor. Right now, he represents size and potential, but he's very raw according to reports. But do the Hawks plan on making a playoff push next year anyway? If anyone thinks that draft would be bad then they are overly pessimistic or have a grudge against international prospects. Sene would right away have the longest wing span in the NBA and with his size and tenacity on defense he could be the next Mutombo. Bargnani at worst would be a better scorer than Zaza Pachulia. At best, he could be an NBA all-star. That draft would never happen. First of all, Sene is a 1st round pick especially after he does his workouts if anyone is bold enough to challenge him. And Bargnani is a top 4-5 pick and we won't be that lucky in the lottery. KB is exactly right on this. Sene is likely years - not one one year, but three plus years - away from making a meaningful contribution in the NBA. Think of him as a less developed Diop or Mbenga. The reality is there are legions of players with NBA level athleticism that never develop. Sene may develop into a player, but he has a long road to travel before that is the case. You can't just project someone into greatness because they have long arms. What ever happened to Badiane (sp? - drafted a few years ago)?

I tend to agree, Okafor would be a great fit for this team and you have to give talent to get talent. The only hiccup is Okafor's injuries - if he was cleared medically you have to at least think about it. Why has Okafor maxed out on his development? He made enormous strides in college and is still relatively new to the game. He could become and Elton Brand.

Is Gordon really different then the undersized shooting guards the Hawks currently have trying to play point guard? He is more talented for sure, but unless he is a lockdown defender I think the Hawks are better off looking at someone with more playmaking skills to complement JJ.

I actually agree with Diesel to an extent. There is no question that Sheldon Williams is the type of player that the Hawks need (i.e., a physical, tough low post presence on offense and defense). The problem is that it is unclear whether Williams' game translates to the NBA, where on average players are bigger and stronger. I am not advocating that we take Williams but I absolutely believe acquiring that type of player is essential to the Hawks long term success. Bargnani is a talent, but does he really help the Hawks in anyway other then providing additional trade bait? He is much more Dirk then Gasol (Gasol was always a paint player) so he will not play center and will essentially force the Hawks to trade or give up on either Smoove or Marvin. Smoove and Bargnani would actually be an interesting forward combo but then what do you do with Marvin? People need to start thinking about how this team is being put together. If you pick a Bargnani, Gay, Morrison, etc., then you have to trade one of your assets (read: one of Childress, Smoove or Marvin) to fill the gaping holes in the roster. This team simply will not win without gaining some measure of roster balance.