Packfill

My bad, I thought you said "this" team. Carry on.

Quote: Hell, you can't get minutes on his team if you don't play D. Are you sure about that? Because if so, how did Lue and Stoudamire get so many minutes this year?

Quote: Marvin timed faster in the 3 quarter court sprint than Chris Paul did. Why does he need a speed coach? Some of you just keep coming up with some of the most ridiculous crap in an attempt to demean Marvin Williams. I can't wait to see some of your reactions when Marvin becomes the Superstar everyone in the NBA knows he will be. Everyone will be ecstatic if Marvin becomes a superstar, who are you kidding. He has a long way to go, which is appropriate given his age. Realistically he should be on a Chris Bosh plan - get experience your first year, step up as a primary player in year two and dominate in year three.

Quote: Quote: Honestly KB, unless Bargnani can play the 5 we don't need him..We are better off trading the pick..BK's time is up..The Hawks ownership won't happily bend over for him giving them another year celler dwelling...If Bargnani is a 3/4 combo as widely advertised, who do you want to ride the bench, him, Marvin or Smoove?.. In case you didn't notice, the NBA has changed. You don't need a true Center anymore to succeed. Is Big Ben Wallace a 7 footer? Is Boris Diaw a true center? Looks like those teams are doing well. As far as comparing Bargnani to Skita, the only two things those two have in common is that they are both 7 foot European big men that played for Benetton Treviso. Look at Skita's numbers in the European league. Andrea Bargnani's numbers are closer to Dirk's than they are to Skita's numbers. Skita barely saw the floor and as you can see he barely had any production. http://thedraftreview.com/history/drafted2...li-Nickoloz.htm Big Ben Wallace plays alot like Big Wes Unseld. Meaning, he plays a lot bigger then he is. Not sure you can say that about Dirk or Bargnani. Again, I think TMac hit the nail on the head - even though Bargnani is very skilled and is tall his game is finesse and skill. The Hawks have plenty of skilled forwards. What they need is a banger with muscle that will provide an interior defensive presence. Personally, the very limited clips I have seen of Bargnani does not suggest he is a banger.

Quote: Aldridge will bulk up. Smith is so much bigger than when he got here it's ridiculous. I notice you left out Camby's weight. Smith-Aldridge would be pretty much a defensive clone of the KMart-Camby frontline, which more than handles its own on D, particularly on the inside (although obviously both have been injured). If you think that a team's prowess is measured by height and weight, how about the fact that our backcourt is big and we should be able to take advantage of that in due time? The bottom line is that height and weight don't determine how good you are, otherwise Al Harrington would do more on D than get out of the way. I think it is a little premature to compare Aldridge to Camby defensively. Obviously Aldridge has talent and could approximate what Camby does but is unfair to expect him to be a top 5 interior defender.

If the Hawks bring in a young big man then I think a veteran point guard would be a tremendous asset for all the young players on the team. I am not sure who that veteran is, I think Cassell is good but a little too old for our purposes. Best fit is speedy Claxton, he is not perfect but has good experience and has performed well under pressure (he was very good when with SA). He would not command huge minutes (and hopefully not huge dollars) but would be available for 25-30 minutes a game to stabilize the team offensively and more importantly defensively. Outside of Speedy, I don't see any good options, which only compounds the Hawks problems.

I think Lue is an average back-up point guard, nothing more. The Hawks definitely need an upgrade. I think a good defensive big man is a more pressing need but point guard is a close second.

Quote: I agree. But the good thing about Gibson declaring is that he is likely to get picked before Rondo, and maybe even before Collins or Williams, depending on individual workouts. And that could be enough to make one of those other points fall to us. I highly doubt Gibson is drafted higher then Williams or Rondo.

Another question is which position better optimizes his talents. Hard to say right now since there is a decent amount of projecting for either (i.e., gaining strength and developing moves to play in post; refining shooting and improving ball handling at the 3).

The problem is the alternatives aren't any better.

Quote: Quote: And last night he did makes some nice moves to the basket and finished. Everyone seems to expect his game to be completely developed overnight. It doesn't work like that. Smoove has talent and desire, and given those two things I expect his progress to continue. I don't expect him to get great overnight. My point is you only get better by repetition and practicing against NBA players at game speed. Our entire team shoots jumpers way too much. That's why on average we shoot way less free throws than our opponents, and we tend to fold in the clutch when the other team takes it to the rack and we shoot long jumpers. And if there's anyone on this team with the body to take it to the rack and get dunks, layups, and/or get to the free throw line, it's Josh Smith. And it pisses me off twice as much because he does relatively well when he does take it to the rack, like he did a couple of times last night. I guarantee that if for every 3 he took he would have driven straight to the hole instead, he would have gotten a lot more points on those posessions on average. And he would get the other team in foul trouble. It's different in a clutch situation when we need a 3, it comes to him and he's open. I'm fine with those. But unless we really need a 3, he should be taking it to the hole. Develop that skill rather than trying to develop your 3 pt shooting. Agreed. The team as a whole is way to reliant on jump shots. No one seems to consistently want to take it into the lane.

If the Hawks trade down I think they should target Patrick O'Bryant (is that his name?), the center from Bradley who played well in the tournament - assuming he is even coming out.

Is anyone other then Diesel actively rooting against Marvin? I know there are alot of people (myself included) who were critical of the pick and believe Paul would have been the better pick, but with the exception of Diesel and a few overly-pro Smoove posters no one is really against him. Obviously the "what ifs" will continue until Marvin proves himself, but that is the nature of the beast - people expect something from a number 2 pick regardless of his age. Again, I am not rooting against Marvin, but I do have some serious concerns as to whether the team is being constructed in the best possible manner. Those concerns include whether Marvin and Smoove will workout as the starting forwards for the Hawks. Those concerns, while you may disagree with them, remain valid until proven otherwise.

Quote: noah, if only he would declare He would certaintly fit the bill, but right now he says no so my statement above assumes he is not in the draft.

I think Aldridge would be a no-brainer if he were available when the Hawks pick. The problems arise if he is not available because there doesn't seem to be anyone else that so perfectly fits the needs of the team.

This has been discussed many times and I just can't get past how bad an idea bringing Iverson in would be. He is a phenomenal player, but he would destroy whatever cohesiveness this team is in the process of building.

Quote: That Olajuwan guy did pretty well as an undersized center. Barkley did pretty well as an undersized player. And so did Rodman and James Worthy, and Elton Brand today Ugh. Are you paying attention to what people are talking about? No one said one undersized player was bad. What we are discussing is TWO undersized playes playing next to each other. Lets go through the guys you list: Olajuwan - He was a center. He played next to 7'4" Ralph Sampson and later 6'10" Otis Thorpe, both power forwards. Neither were undersized. Barley - Definitely undersized at power forward. That said, he is somewhat of an anomoly but he did play next to the likes of Moses Malone in Philly (Moses was only 6'10" but was a wide body and arguably not undersized for the time he entered the league) and played next to 6'10" Tom Chambers and 7'0" David West in Phoenix if I am not mistaken (can't really remember). Rodman - He played power forward for the Bulls. The Bulls starting center was a 7', I think Longley or Perdue at the time. Again, neither were undersized (neither was 6'7" long armed Scottie Pippen at small forward). Worthy - Worthy was a SMALL FORWARD, a 6'9" one at that. So he was in no way undersized. Brand - Undersized in height but he is a wide body with long arms that helps compensate for his size. Moreover, he is lined up next to 7'0" Chris Kamen, who is not undersized for a center.

Quote: Quote: Yah, 6'9" guys can't defend the post.... that's absurd. He's 20 years old and he's been in the NBA for not quite two seasons. He has all the physical tools to be a shut down defender at the forward position as well as having the desire to play defense. The only thing he lacks is experience. Everyone is so damned knee jerk around here. Agreed. He will be a much better post defender than say Antoine Walker who was an All-Star as a PF in Boston. I think Josh is clearly showing he can be a stud SF but it is way too early to determine whether he can play PF. I don't think there is any question as to whether he could be a 4 on defense. Rather the question is where is his optimal position. So far it looks like he is naturally a 3. That may change in time but right now the 3 is defintely his best position.

He would be nice to have as a bench guy but my understanding is that his game is still in the early development stage and he is not quite ready for real minutes.

Quote: The Hawks look so weak next to Orlando. They have what we need, a pg and bigs, and it really shows. If you combine the rosters of Atlanta and Orlando you would end up with a great team! They have everything the Hawks need and vice versa.

Theo has done o.k., but outside of that one year in Philly before he got injured and traded to the Hawks he hasn't exactly been a game changer or made a genuine contribution to a winning team. As such, I wouldn't consider him to be anything special. I think people are talking in general about whether the Hawks can be successful with an undersized frontcourt - i.e., with Smoove and Marvin at the forwards. I was advocating, along with others, that for that combo to be successful the Hawks are going to need a real banger in the post with some semblance of a post game on offense. Finding that guy obviously is easier said then done.

Quote: I don't care what you say. Detroit seems to be faring well with a 6'9 SF as 6'9 Center and a 6'11 perimeter oriented PF. You proved the point - they only have one undersized player, the 6'9" center. Plus there is NO 6'9" player currently in the NBA that plays bigger then Ben Wallace. He is an exception tot he rule.

Can't really answer this because it depends in large measure on who the specific player they bring in is. Basically what I want to see is a good front court. I think the biggest need a defensive minded big with some semblance of a low post game on offense. Whether that individual is a center or power forward is a secondary concern. A lot really depends on the coaching staff and front office. If they think Marvin and Smoove together work as the starting forwards, then I think we desparately need a big man at center. If the front office sees Smoove and Marvin as small forwards and only part time power forwards, then we need a power forward ASAP.

True to an extent. I believe Pau was always advertised as an inside guy. Dirk's shooting obviously was his calling card. I just think that it is pointless to get one of those guys when the team has a crying need for some interior defense and post offense. Aldrige would be the best fit - or Noah if he declares. Thomas also would fit but the problem with him is that he may be too small to play center even in an age with smaller centers. Maybe ge will bulk up in a few years. If the pick came down to Bargnani, Morrison or Gay I think the Hawks best move would be a trade, because none of those guys fit a need. I do think this that the team should start addressing its needs this off-season. They have plenty of young talent to develop at the wing positions.

No real surprise that he is declaring.