Packfill

They shoot a lower percentage because the guys taking those shots - Nachbar, JR Smith, Snyder all pretty much stink. NO is really a year behind the Hawks in terms of rebuilding - they off-loaded their expensive vets last season.

Quote: We could have had a Steve Nash caliber player, at least one who was more advanced at the same level, had we drafted Chris Paul. Sadly we went for potential over proven results AND potential. Pretty much says it all. Marvin is going to have to (1) put up some pretty gaudy statistics in a year or two and (2) make a contribution to the team that results i wins before I can give BK a lick of credit.

Lets just hope Woody doesn't mess up Smoove, Childress and Marving the way he messed up Diaw.

Quote: And without Nash the Suns are a 30 win team even with Amare just like they were a few years ago. Agreed. Of course, that is why he is MVP.

Quote: there are 13 spots on the roster...here is what i'd like to see true pg who can also defend ivey jj slim marvin chill donta smoove batman zaza andersen aldridge/williams nene/pryz we'll have defense on the perimeter (pg/ivey/jj/chill/donta) and in the post (smoove/shelden/nene) we'll have 3pt shooting (jj/slim/marvin), slashing (chill/marvin/smoove) and paint scoring (marvin/smoove/zaza/andersen/shelden) we'll have 4 players capable of the pg position: pg/ivey/jj/slim we'll have 4 players capable of the sg position: jj/slim/chill/donta we'll have 5 players capable of the sf position: jj/chill/marvin/smoove/donta we'll have 5 players capable of the pf position: smoove/shelden/andersen/nene/batman we'll have 5 players capable of the c position: zaza/shelden/nene/andersen/smoove so we just need to convince denver to do al for dre (or portland to do al for one of their pgs) and then draft shelden/aldridge, bring over andersen and sign nene/pryz I wish that would happen, but it is a long shot. Add a decent coach and that is a competitive team.

Quote: ...and I think you are stupid for having that opinion. Name calling. Very grown up of you. When should we expect results?

I think it is reasonable to expect patience on the part of the few Hawks fans that are out there, but it is not reasonable to accept that the team is getting out coached and out huscled on a nightly basis. Realistically, the team is very young and no one should have expected them to even sniff the playoffs this year. But 30 or so wins is nor unrealistic, and right now, that is not looking good. When should we expect results? Next year? I think if they aren't at least close to .500 next year there needs to be a major house cleaning. Problem is, to get to that point, they are going to have to hire a decent coach in the off-season.

Quote: Jerry West really hasn't done a lot, personel wise, to make that team better. He brought in Hubie brown, who instilled some winning ways into them. But their key players are the ones that BK brought in. The "greatness of Jerry west" is not the primary reason they are a winning team now. Ohter then Gasol, Wright and Battier are there any players on that team brought in by BK? I don't think so. BK gets lauded for the Gasol trade (where he fleeced an even more incompetent GM) but he is also the genius who traded Bibby for Jason Williams.

Quote: Diaw is doing exactly what he was thought to be capable of. THe problem is that it took an MVP caliber PG and a team stocked with tested and proven talent to make that vision a reality. We simply couldn't provide that here and Diaw didn't have the balls, talent or pride to help build it. He took the easy way out and cried himself to a contender. Fortunately we got someone who is vastly more talented than him in return. It only looks bad on the surface. If you analyze the situation, what happened had to happen. As far as the org doing everything they can to win, I would say yes. We have a solid GM who has made good moves and we have a lot of talent. The organization can't do much more than they've done. When you're a bad team trying to get better, there isn't a magic solution to the problem. There is no single key you can turn to go from being bad to being good (short of drafting/trading a duncan or shaq caliber player). We have to continue to develop talent while teaching teh players we have how to win. Just to be fair, playing with Nash is obviously a huge benefit to any player, but outside of Nash and Marion that team is absolutely not full of proven players. Diaw is probably their third best player, followed in some order by the likes of Thomas, Barbosa, Jones, House, etc. Of those guys, only Thomas is a real vet but as evidenced by his stay in NY he does not make players around him better. I really think Diaw's development is about coaching - he had none in Atlanta and a lot in Phoenix.

I think it would be hard to argue that he is not the worst coach in the league.

Quote: Late in the 4th, when we needed points, Al (and JJ a few times) started their one on one routine and that is why we lost the game. Forget all the horrible coaching decisoins (which there were many). Forget the turnovers and the complete lack of defense. We stopped moving the ball Al, mostly Al, started going 1-on-1, making bad shots and turning the ball over. I pin some of that on JJ. But most of it was Al's fault. I wouldn't go as far as to call him a cancer. But it has happened enough that you can definitely note the negative impact it has. BS. JJ had at least 3 turnovers in the 4th quarter and the whole team settles for jump shots. WTF is the coach not getting involved and telling them to go down low or drive to the hoop? That or why isn't our point guard setting up a freaking play that involves getting the ball inside? It is plain and simple terrible coaching or terrible execution. No way you can pin last nights loss on Al, no way. Woodson, JJ and whomever was trying to guard LeBron are all in line before Al as far as blame for last nights loss. And there is no freaking way he can be considered a cancer. Artest is a cancer, Steve Francis is a cancer, Al is nothing of the sort. It is incredulous to even say that.

Quote: Harrington miss, Harrington miss, Harrington miss i will push the envelope here. Al Harrington is a cancer on the Hawks team. That is truly a moronic statement.

First, it is not covering for both Al and Zaza - Zaza would be riding pine. Further, the the utter lack of a coherent defensive scheme or attention to defense by the coaching staff is a huge reason for the teams defensive shortcomings. I strongly believe that even a modicum of direction with the coaching staff would make for great improvements. The Hawks do have great athletes so it shouldn't be that difficult. Second, historically there are alot of big men who would be perfect: Deke, Mourning, Robinson, Chief, Hakeem, Russell, etc. I am sure there is no one available to the Hawks that deserves being mentioned in that group - unless you consider Ben Wallace available to the Hawks (which I do not). Third, it is getting less and less likely that Al will be signed beyond the end of this season - if BK does sign him like he said he would then the Marvin pick is even more of a disaster.

Check your facts, Acguire did start, along with Lambier and Mahorn, with Thomas and Dumars in the backcourt. Salley, Rodman, Johnson and Edwards were brought off the bench. I am not saying finding a defensive center is easy, but BK has painted the team into a corner so we need one.

If they get a real center Zaza is on the bench, so that is a non-issue. If they get a coach who can coach, instill good team defense, then Al is no longer the liability you claim he is now. Be careful, your "Al hate" is putting you in the same boat as Diesel and KB. Plus that vaunted detroit team started Mark Aguire at small forward, and he certaintly was no defensive stalwart.

Quote: Quote: Name a team other than Detroit who has 3 EXCELLENT interior defenders in the entire NBA. I didn't say they all have to be excellent but they can't have someone playing significant minutes who sucks. Let's see you and EDS think that all the Hawks have to do is add one defensive center and that will improve the Hawks interior D from one of the worst in the league to one of the best. Does this defensive beast have a name? Or are you just dreaming? They would also need to add a point guard that plays defense and a coach who can, well, coach. But yes, those three things and the there is no reason the Hawks can't be an average to above average defensive team.

It took Jordan a long time to win a title because he needed some help - so it wasn't until Pippen and Grant had a little seasoning that he really had a legitimate chance to win.

Because no team has won a championship in 20+ years without at least one excellent interior defender. That doesn't mean every big man must be a great defender, just means you need at least one or two. For example, Al, Smoove and defensive center would work.

Smush is crap as well. No need for him.

I don't think anyone who saw him play previously expected him to be a Kobe/Tmac type of player. That is an unrealistic expectation - he just isn't that good. If nothing else, the very fact that he needs a quality point guard to fully exploit his abilities is evidence of that - remember his shooting percentages were not great pre-Nash. Guys like Kobe, Tmac, Wade etc. can dominate with junk at the point position.

I can't see why Seattle would want to do that trade since Harrington is essentially duplication of Rashard Lewis, a player they already have. They need a reliable post presence with defensive skills - just like the Hawks.

Let's be honest here, JJ is a really good player but he has not yet demonstrated he deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe, Lebron, Tmac, Wade, Allen, Carter, etc.

So what if Kobe could have scored 30+ those few seasons. How is that sacrificing? He won championships because the team was built around Shaq, simple as that.

Kobe is playing better, but I still think there are at least ten other players in the league I would choose to build a franchise around other then Kobe just because of his attitude.

Quote: We get a pretty good distributer in return and we help relieve the log jam at forward because Swift only needs about 25 minutes to be effective. No way, Rafer is a head case and Swift is a tremendous waste of talent. Not worht it, especially if McGrady stays healthy because the Rockets will not end up with a lottery pick.