Packfill

Alot of assumptions involved in that trade - will Artest keep his act in check; will Harrison develop into a starting caliber center. To me, Artest's volatility is too much of a question mark for the Hawks to gamble on.

I am with the no Artest in Atlanta camp. Obviosuly acquiring him would make sense from a basketball perspective since he is so talented. But, considering everything else and how he has poisoned two franchises already, I would not want him in the Hawks locker room messing with the heads of the Hawks youngster. If there was a Reggie Miller type veteran presence that could control him then maybe, but the Hawks definitely do not have that.

Senior captain.

To be fair, that North Carolina team was loaded in a way that most college teams are not.

Can the Hawks afford all those guys 4+ years from now? By that time all will be off their rookie contracts. If Marvin is close to living up to his "hype" then he gets max, and if Josh Smith is the next Shawn Kemp he gets the max. Add in JJ's max and a bigger deal for Zaza . . .

So you are saying Smoove is consistent on a game to game basis?

I know what you are saying. I just wish the Hawks went with the team concept instead. It would be much more fun to watch.

Good defenders usually bring it every night - meaning there is a level of consistency involved in there defensive effort. Josh Smith will uncork a good game now and then but he does not consistently work hard on the defensive end. Again, much if this is attributable to youth although part may be his laissez faire attitude.

Agreed on their pieces fitting better then ours. Although I think you forgot about David West, their second best player. Nevertheless, if you look at it just from a telent perspective, minus the point guard position the Hawks clearly have a more talented line-up. The Hawks and Hornets are opposites in terms of how to build a team in the NBA. The Hornets have gone with developing a team concept while the Hawks have gone with a talent acquisition concept. We will see which works out better.

I am not going to waste my time with it, but I am sure there have been at least two dozen or so games in the past 100 played by the Hawks in which the opposing team had an inordinate number of points in the paint and Josh Smith was in the line-up. Obviously Josh Smith has more then enough athletic ability to become an elite defender, but he isn't there yet - not by a long shot. He is only 19, so give him some time. If Josh Smith couldn't jump as high as he does is he in the NBA right now?

Quote: there isn't a chance in hell that they'll make the playoffs. They're 8-12 (.400) and they have the 2nd longest losing streak in the league. Also, as bad as their record was last year, that team has a lot of talent. P.J. Brown Rasual Butler Speedy Claxton Maciej Lampe Desmond Mason J.R. Smith Kirk Snyder are all pretty damn good. They have some young stars in the making like us, but unlike us they went out and got some role players like speedy and rasual butler. To tell you the truth, I think they came out with a chip on their shoulder to represent their devastated city kind of like the saints in the nfl, and it's starting to wear off. do you honestly think that the Hornets have more talent then the Hawks? Lampe and Snyder barely play - and it would be hard to argue they are any better then Batista and Childress. Butler and Mason are o.k. players, but both are better suited to a back-up roll. Are they more talented then Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Al Harrington? J.R. Smith is a good young talent but will be lucky to be as good as JJ is right now - let alone as good as Salim is right now. But I agree, it would be crazy if that team made the playoffs. They are alot like the Bucks team that made a run a few years ago with a rookie point guard, first time starter and shooting guard and some other young players.

Quote: Quote: No offense dude, but that is one of the more ill informed posts I have read on this board. Elliot is dead right. There is absolutely no direct correlation between being a good shotblocker and being a good defender, meaning it is possible to be a good shotblocker without being a good defender. Sure it is possible, but it is unlikely. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless. So the 66 points that Utah scored in the paint, when Josh Smith wasn't there, were just a coincidence? Yeah right. That was the most points the Hawks have given up in the paint by a mile all year, to a team that lost 4 straight games and has a lame offense. Sure a player can be a shotbocker without being a good defender, but in general guys that block shots are good defenders. Elliot hasn't watched many Hawks games so he doesn't know Smith's game at all. Josh Smith isn't a complete defender by any means but saying he is a poor one is ignorant. His problem is that he is playing most of his minutes at the 3, where he has a harder time. At the 4 he is much more comfortable. At the 4 he doesn't get beat off the dribble and guys have a hard time backing him down or shooting over him. Here are the top 20 shotblockers in the league. Tell me Mr IAMSOWELLINFORMED, how many of these guys are poor defenders? 1 Alonzo Mourning 2 Samuel Dalembert 2 Shaquille O'Neal 4 Marcus Camby 5 Andrei Kirilenko 6 Elton Brand 7 Tim Duncan 8 Eddie Griffin 9 DeSagana Diop 10 Joel Przybilla 11 Pau Gasol 12 Brendan Haywood 13 Jermaine O'Neal 14 Chris Kaman 15 Josh Smith 16 Shawn Marion 17 Adonal Foyle 18 Emeka Okafor 19 Ben Wallace 20 Theo Ratliff If blocked shots alone were an indicator of excellent defense Desagana Diop, Adonal Foyle, Theo Ratliff, Eddie Griffin, Greg Ostertag, Rasho Nesterovic and Steven Hunter would be getting alot more playing time then they currently do. But I am sure you know more about basketball then Sean Elliott.

Agreed. What is with the Van Gundy family - are they all quitters?

Gorget Paul's stats - which are undeniably excellent for a rookie point guard, especially one that is 20 years old. Rather, look at the Hornet's record - right around .500. A .500 record with that collection of youngsters and journeymen is pretty darn impressive don't you think? Heck, they may make the playoffs. Marvin may one day lead the Hawks to the playoffs, but I think we can all agree that that day is several years away.

Quote: Quote: in last nights game. He was talking about back when he was in high school and he had a game where he had like 7-8 blocks and I believe it was Lute Olson who told him that once he learns to play defense he will be a really good player and Sean said something like "but I had 7 blocks tonight" and Lute said something like "yeah but good defense means not letting your guy take the shot". That to me says it all about Smoove at this point. He plays horrible man up defense and I dont believe its because he cant do it, but I believe its more that he wants to make the acrobatic play and block the shot from behind like he has done his whole life. So I guess Alonzo, Camby and Kirilenko are bad defenders since they block a lot of shots. That is a bunch of nonsense. While Smoove can miss assignments occassionally and get out of position due to his inexperience, he can actually play pretty good D at the 4. Where he has problems is against quicker players. The Hawks D is bad in general but without Smoove the D was nonexistent. In the games that Smoove missed against Utah and Denver the Hawks got outscored by 60 points total in the paint. They were just having a layup drill at the Hawks rim. In all the rest of the games combined the Hawks have been outscored in the paint by a total of 32 points. Smoove also started against Elton Brand in the first Clippers game and held him to his season low. Brand only scored on Smoove 1 on 1 once the whole game, when he was able to post him up 2 feet from the basket and pump faked him off his feet for a 3 point play. Other than that he didn't do anything against Josh. How many Hawks games has Elliot seen? No offense dude, but that is one of the more ill informed posts I have read on this board. Elliot is dead right. There is absolutely no direct correlation between being a good shotblocker and being a good defender, meaning it is possible to be a good shotblocker without being a good defender. There have been hundreds of players throughout the history of the game that this can be said for. Josh Smith has the potential to be a good defender, but he isn't there yet.

Unless a simultaneous trade was involved, the Hawks would be the absolute laughing stock of the league if they drafted Rudy Gay. The Hawks are done with their talent procurement at the shooting guard and small forward position.

Not winning with a young team is one thing. Becoming the worst team of all time is another. How long did Tim Floyd survive with the Bulls? Floyd, unfortunately, is the benchmark for Woody.

Well, I am not sure having JJ and Salim on the court at the same time is a recipe for success in the long run - neither can run an offense. That said, since the Hawks are in the throws of the 2004 through 2006 Hawks are becoming the NBA's all-time worst team, I can see your point - can't get any worse!

Why damage the reputation of one of the only people in the organization that is still respected around the league?

Do you realize that Al has a higher shooting percentage then JJ? Maybe JJ should be benched. They both get almost all of their points off jumpshots.

Quote: ......why does it seem like other coaches can get guys who aren't true point guards, and Arenas is not a true point guard by any stretch of the imagination, and make it work with those guys running the point? Its either bad coaching or bad players, or at least players that don't understand ball movement.

I like JJ better then Hughes too - Hughes struggles this season only confirm that. But, Hughes signed a contract that is $10 million less then JJ and Cleveland did not have to give up any draft picks to get him.

Quote: our odds of getting marvin+rondo are much higher than getting paul+gay if we end up getting rondo or another 'paul's level' pg this draft or feb or summer, then it'll have been good to get marvin, as we can't likely get his talent in the near future again...if we never get our pg and marvin doesn't become jordan jr, then that'll be bad So the GM should make a decision on who to draft in the lottery based on who they intend to pick in the lottery the following season? I am not following. If Paul is as good as he has played so far then we do not need Marvin or Gay because Al, Smoove and Childress will all be much improved due to superior point guard play. There is no guarantee the Hawks get a shot at Rondo - nd Rondo is shaping up as the only point guard worth a lottery selection (and please don't tell me about non-point guards Gibson, Brewer, the guy in Miami, etc.).

Quote: so fire someone who has gotten us this much talent without overpaying because he drafted who everyone thought would be bpa and who everyone was saying the #2 team should take? he has to do more than take the consensus top-2 pick #2 in the draft to get fired I think the point of Ford's piece was that BK did overpay.

Quote: It's going to be real interesting what some of you are going to say when Marvin is averaging 23 and 9 in a couple of years while Chris Paul is topped out at around 16 and 6. Who cares if he averages "23 and 9" if the team wins 35 games. I will take Paul and his "16 and 6" if he uses his passing accument to turn Smoove and Childress into 20 point scorers and the "Team" into a title contender. Talent means crap if it does not work together. At some point BK has to put together a team that works together and hire a coach that utilizes that talent to win games. I give him until next off season to start building a "team" instead of a collection of talent.