Packfill

Quote: I think you can put an Artest on a veteran team, but on a team of rookies he could cause a lot of damage with his attitude. Great talent, but do you want to take that chance? - - a bit like the T.O. question. This is exactly what it boils down to. If the Hawks had a Michael Jordan, an unquestioned leader, then it is much easier to control/tolerate the one talented miscreant. The Hawks don't have a Michael Jordan - and a veteran coach with three rings, Artest would poison the Hawks lockerroom - particularly if Al is jettisoned in the process. Artest is exactly like T.O., putting his needs before the needs of a team. I highly doubt BK would willingly bring such a time bomb into such a precocious locker room.

Problem with that is that you are assuming BK cares what someone else thinks - because normally he just does what he does and he doesn't care what people are saying.

You gotta love his unquestioned confidence in Marvin though!

Quote: those are the same executives who thought Darko was the clear cut #2 pick a few years back or that Stromile Swift was going to be the next big thing and so on. So really, using their judgment as your basis for defense is pretty weak. You really shouldnt compare the best college football player in the country and the likely #1 pick in the next NFL draft to a guy who is extremely talented but was a backup on his own team. Scouts are saying that Bush is the most talented back to come out of the draft since Gale Sayers. I still think that Marvin is going to be a stud (in 2-3 years) but he isnt even close right now. He is about where Josh Smith is and neither of them are even close to where Chris Paul is. At this point passing up Paul was a mistake. Hopefully that will change as Marvin improves, but thats something we have to really pray happens ... whereas Hornets fans dont have to worry a bit about Paul improving since he is already a borderline all-star PG. KB, you have been served.

Quote: Sorry, but Sam Bowie never had great potential, and all of those other guys had question marks about there games when they came out. There are no question marks about Marvin's game. The only thing he lacks is experience. There are plenty of questions about Marvin's game: 1. Can he be a team leader; 2. Can he be the focal point of an offense; 3. What position is he best suited for; 4. Can he add strength and weight while retaining quickness; 5. Can he penetrate to the basket; 6. etc. You are shoveling some really stinky stuff right now.

Well the problem with that idea is that it probably makes the Hawks good enough to not get a top five pick but bad enough to still miss the playoffs, which means no Rondo. Outside of Rondo, there are no point guards that could, at least at this juncture, make a reasonable contribution to an NBA team next season.

Alot of assumptions involved in that trade - will Artest keep his act in check; will Harrison develop into a starting caliber center. To me, Artest's volatility is too much of a question mark for the Hawks to gamble on.

I am with the no Artest in Atlanta camp. Obviosuly acquiring him would make sense from a basketball perspective since he is so talented. But, considering everything else and how he has poisoned two franchises already, I would not want him in the Hawks locker room messing with the heads of the Hawks youngster. If there was a Reggie Miller type veteran presence that could control him then maybe, but the Hawks definitely do not have that.

Senior captain.

To be fair, that North Carolina team was loaded in a way that most college teams are not.

Can the Hawks afford all those guys 4+ years from now? By that time all will be off their rookie contracts. If Marvin is close to living up to his "hype" then he gets max, and if Josh Smith is the next Shawn Kemp he gets the max. Add in JJ's max and a bigger deal for Zaza . . .

So you are saying Smoove is consistent on a game to game basis?

I know what you are saying. I just wish the Hawks went with the team concept instead. It would be much more fun to watch.

Good defenders usually bring it every night - meaning there is a level of consistency involved in there defensive effort. Josh Smith will uncork a good game now and then but he does not consistently work hard on the defensive end. Again, much if this is attributable to youth although part may be his laissez faire attitude.

Agreed on their pieces fitting better then ours. Although I think you forgot about David West, their second best player. Nevertheless, if you look at it just from a telent perspective, minus the point guard position the Hawks clearly have a more talented line-up. The Hawks and Hornets are opposites in terms of how to build a team in the NBA. The Hornets have gone with developing a team concept while the Hawks have gone with a talent acquisition concept. We will see which works out better.

I am not going to waste my time with it, but I am sure there have been at least two dozen or so games in the past 100 played by the Hawks in which the opposing team had an inordinate number of points in the paint and Josh Smith was in the line-up. Obviously Josh Smith has more then enough athletic ability to become an elite defender, but he isn't there yet - not by a long shot. He is only 19, so give him some time. If Josh Smith couldn't jump as high as he does is he in the NBA right now?

Quote: there isn't a chance in hell that they'll make the playoffs. They're 8-12 (.400) and they have the 2nd longest losing streak in the league. Also, as bad as their record was last year, that team has a lot of talent. P.J. Brown Rasual Butler Speedy Claxton Maciej Lampe Desmond Mason J.R. Smith Kirk Snyder are all pretty damn good. They have some young stars in the making like us, but unlike us they went out and got some role players like speedy and rasual butler. To tell you the truth, I think they came out with a chip on their shoulder to represent their devastated city kind of like the saints in the nfl, and it's starting to wear off. do you honestly think that the Hornets have more talent then the Hawks? Lampe and Snyder barely play - and it would be hard to argue they are any better then Batista and Childress. Butler and Mason are o.k. players, but both are better suited to a back-up roll. Are they more talented then Josh Smith, Marvin Williams and Al Harrington? J.R. Smith is a good young talent but will be lucky to be as good as JJ is right now - let alone as good as Salim is right now. But I agree, it would be crazy if that team made the playoffs. They are alot like the Bucks team that made a run a few years ago with a rookie point guard, first time starter and shooting guard and some other young players.

Quote: Quote: No offense dude, but that is one of the more ill informed posts I have read on this board. Elliot is dead right. There is absolutely no direct correlation between being a good shotblocker and being a good defender, meaning it is possible to be a good shotblocker without being a good defender. Sure it is possible, but it is unlikely. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless. So the 66 points that Utah scored in the paint, when Josh Smith wasn't there, were just a coincidence? Yeah right. That was the most points the Hawks have given up in the paint by a mile all year, to a team that lost 4 straight games and has a lame offense. Sure a player can be a shotbocker without being a good defender, but in general guys that block shots are good defenders. Elliot hasn't watched many Hawks games so he doesn't know Smith's game at all. Josh Smith isn't a complete defender by any means but saying he is a poor one is ignorant. His problem is that he is playing most of his minutes at the 3, where he has a harder time. At the 4 he is much more comfortable. At the 4 he doesn't get beat off the dribble and guys have a hard time backing him down or shooting over him. Here are the top 20 shotblockers in the league. Tell me Mr IAMSOWELLINFORMED, how many of these guys are poor defenders? 1 Alonzo Mourning 2 Samuel Dalembert 2 Shaquille O'Neal 4 Marcus Camby 5 Andrei Kirilenko 6 Elton Brand 7 Tim Duncan 8 Eddie Griffin 9 DeSagana Diop 10 Joel Przybilla 11 Pau Gasol 12 Brendan Haywood 13 Jermaine O'Neal 14 Chris Kaman 15 Josh Smith 16 Shawn Marion 17 Adonal Foyle 18 Emeka Okafor 19 Ben Wallace 20 Theo Ratliff If blocked shots alone were an indicator of excellent defense Desagana Diop, Adonal Foyle, Theo Ratliff, Eddie Griffin, Greg Ostertag, Rasho Nesterovic and Steven Hunter would be getting alot more playing time then they currently do. But I am sure you know more about basketball then Sean Elliott.

Agreed. What is with the Van Gundy family - are they all quitters?

Gorget Paul's stats - which are undeniably excellent for a rookie point guard, especially one that is 20 years old. Rather, look at the Hornet's record - right around .500. A .500 record with that collection of youngsters and journeymen is pretty darn impressive don't you think? Heck, they may make the playoffs. Marvin may one day lead the Hawks to the playoffs, but I think we can all agree that that day is several years away.

Quote: Quote: in last nights game. He was talking about back when he was in high school and he had a game where he had like 7-8 blocks and I believe it was Lute Olson who told him that once he learns to play defense he will be a really good player and Sean said something like "but I had 7 blocks tonight" and Lute said something like "yeah but good defense means not letting your guy take the shot". That to me says it all about Smoove at this point. He plays horrible man up defense and I dont believe its because he cant do it, but I believe its more that he wants to make the acrobatic play and block the shot from behind like he has done his whole life. So I guess Alonzo, Camby and Kirilenko are bad defenders since they block a lot of shots. That is a bunch of nonsense. While Smoove can miss assignments occassionally and get out of position due to his inexperience, he can actually play pretty good D at the 4. Where he has problems is against quicker players. The Hawks D is bad in general but without Smoove the D was nonexistent. In the games that Smoove missed against Utah and Denver the Hawks got outscored by 60 points total in the paint. They were just having a layup drill at the Hawks rim. In all the rest of the games combined the Hawks have been outscored in the paint by a total of 32 points. Smoove also started against Elton Brand in the first Clippers game and held him to his season low. Brand only scored on Smoove 1 on 1 once the whole game, when he was able to post him up 2 feet from the basket and pump faked him off his feet for a 3 point play. Other than that he didn't do anything against Josh. How many Hawks games has Elliot seen? No offense dude, but that is one of the more ill informed posts I have read on this board. Elliot is dead right. There is absolutely no direct correlation between being a good shotblocker and being a good defender, meaning it is possible to be a good shotblocker without being a good defender. There have been hundreds of players throughout the history of the game that this can be said for. Josh Smith has the potential to be a good defender, but he isn't there yet.

Unless a simultaneous trade was involved, the Hawks would be the absolute laughing stock of the league if they drafted Rudy Gay. The Hawks are done with their talent procurement at the shooting guard and small forward position.

Not winning with a young team is one thing. Becoming the worst team of all time is another. How long did Tim Floyd survive with the Bulls? Floyd, unfortunately, is the benchmark for Woody.

Well, I am not sure having JJ and Salim on the court at the same time is a recipe for success in the long run - neither can run an offense. That said, since the Hawks are in the throws of the 2004 through 2006 Hawks are becoming the NBA's all-time worst team, I can see your point - can't get any worse!

Why damage the reputation of one of the only people in the organization that is still respected around the league?