Packfill

Do you realize that Al has a higher shooting percentage then JJ? Maybe JJ should be benched. They both get almost all of their points off jumpshots.

Quote: ......why does it seem like other coaches can get guys who aren't true point guards, and Arenas is not a true point guard by any stretch of the imagination, and make it work with those guys running the point? Its either bad coaching or bad players, or at least players that don't understand ball movement.

I like JJ better then Hughes too - Hughes struggles this season only confirm that. But, Hughes signed a contract that is $10 million less then JJ and Cleveland did not have to give up any draft picks to get him.

Quote: our odds of getting marvin+rondo are much higher than getting paul+gay if we end up getting rondo or another 'paul's level' pg this draft or feb or summer, then it'll have been good to get marvin, as we can't likely get his talent in the near future again...if we never get our pg and marvin doesn't become jordan jr, then that'll be bad So the GM should make a decision on who to draft in the lottery based on who they intend to pick in the lottery the following season? I am not following. If Paul is as good as he has played so far then we do not need Marvin or Gay because Al, Smoove and Childress will all be much improved due to superior point guard play. There is no guarantee the Hawks get a shot at Rondo - nd Rondo is shaping up as the only point guard worth a lottery selection (and please don't tell me about non-point guards Gibson, Brewer, the guy in Miami, etc.).

Quote: so fire someone who has gotten us this much talent without overpaying because he drafted who everyone thought would be bpa and who everyone was saying the #2 team should take? he has to do more than take the consensus top-2 pick #2 in the draft to get fired I think the point of Ford's piece was that BK did overpay.

Quote: It's going to be real interesting what some of you are going to say when Marvin is averaging 23 and 9 in a couple of years while Chris Paul is topped out at around 16 and 6. Who cares if he averages "23 and 9" if the team wins 35 games. I will take Paul and his "16 and 6" if he uses his passing accument to turn Smoove and Childress into 20 point scorers and the "Team" into a title contender. Talent means crap if it does not work together. At some point BK has to put together a team that works together and hire a coach that utilizes that talent to win games. I give him until next off season to start building a "team" instead of a collection of talent.

My biggest gripe with BK is his blatant BS about JJ being the point guard. He gets paid alot of money to know whether someone can play an NBA position so if I know that JJ is not a point guard he should too. The Zaza signing was a good one but in the long run, on a winning team, Zaza probably ends up as nothing more then a solid back-up - which is fine considering the money he is getting. I am not so gung-ho on the Salim pick. He really doesn't have a position. Only time will tell whether he turns into a Vinnie Johnson or a Tony Delk, Eddie House type.

Quote: Quote: that is just retarded. An awful pg doesn't make the top 20 in assist to turnover ratio and shoot well from the field. Duh. I didn't say Lue was awful, I said he blows!! I may be retarded, but Lue just blows!!! Seriously dude, just stop defending him. Stop it. I'm going to have a heart attack. And don't give me any stats. My (non)argument relies purely on the right lobe of the brain. Stats are for suckers! This is getting comical. Lue is lucky to be collecting an NBA pay check. Lets look at what Lue does not do well: 1. He does not create shots for teammates - any assists he gets are of the JT variety, and we can all agree he was not a good point guard. 2. He is not consistent - one good game followed by two bad ones. 3. He cannot play a lick of defense. 4. He dribbles too much. 5. The team does not win with him on the court. 6. He lacks ideal size. 7. He is too ugly to be of any value in marketing the team.

Neither Lue or Ivey, or Salim for that matter, are starting quality point guards in the NBA so it doesn't much matter.

Quote: If you post that trade on a Denver board they will probably react the same way. "An average swingman on an expiring contract for Watson? We can do better than that" Remember that in Memphis it was Watson who always played in the fourth quarters, and the team played better when he was in there. Do you still think Denver would not take an Al for Watson deal? If BK called Denver's GM with that trade offer (or some similar variation) the Denver GM's only response would be: You had me at hello.

Quote: Quote: It is funny seeing a 2 win team overrate it's own players. A starting pg for an expiring contract is not a good deal lol. Watson is a backup. Just because he'd be the best PG on the Hawks doesn't change that... Exactly. Particularly when you factor in Watson's contract - which is unappealing for a back-up.

Quote: I feel the Hawks can get a lot more in return for Al than Watson and Lenard for Harrington. Personally, if BK did consider this, I don't even think we would have to include Delk. Agreed. Leonard is useless to the Hawks and while Watson is a nice player, he is no where near good enough to trade Al for.

Quote: Wait a minute. The skills that Marvin has shown are not simply basic skills for a player that is 6'9" with his kind of athleticism. There are very few long players like him that bring a complete skill set to the table. Josh Smith doesn't have his skill set. You simply don't find many 6'9" players like Marvin that can handle the ball and shoot the ball from the perimeter like he can. Marvin Williams has the ability to be what a healthy Jamal Mashburn was. A guy that can score 23-25 points per game, shoot the ball from the perimter, rebound, and play defense. If you give me the choice between a young Kenny Anderson, which is who I think Chris Paul compares most favorably to, and a young, healthy Jamal Mashburn, I'm going to take Jamal Mashburn everytime. You could argue that Marvin also compares favorably to Tim Thomas. Athletic, long, handles, nice shot, etc. Is Tim Thomas still in the NBA?

At least me know things can't possibly get worse!

Quote: Quote: how many 6'9'' tweeners have led their teams to a championship, When was the last time a pg led their team to a championship? After Magic and Isiah there's...... And about that same time Bird and DrJ, both swingmen, led their teams to titles. The bottom line is that big men are the key to titles. And Marvin isn't a tweener. He fits perfectly at the 3. I am not trying to say Marvin was the better pick but at least make a coherent argument. A defense oriented big man is definitely a requirement for an NBA title, without question. Outside of that - and we can all agree that there were no such players available to the Hawks - the clearest path for the Hawks to at least competing for a championship is with a great point guard. This is evident from the success of Steve Nash last year and Jason Kidd in previous years. The thing is, you also have to factor in how much better a good point guard could make Al Harrington, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Joe Johnson and Zaza Pachulia.

Quote: Quote: Look what Nash is doing with a bunch of scrubs! He has Marion, but nothing else. While I agree with your overall point, but he hardly has a bunch of scrubs Nash Raja Bell Marion Diaw Kurt Thomas I see two all-stars, a very good big man and a good 2 guard, and arguably the MIP in Diaw. Diaw is the only one you could argue is a scrub. That team is not as deep as last year, but is still very solid all around. Take Nash off that team and they are as bad as the Hawks. JJ, Harrington, Zaza, Salim and Smoove are at least as good as Marion, Bell, Diaw, Barbosa and Thomas.

I think staying the course in the only real option right now. A midseason coaching change is not likely going to help the team and there are no players available through trade (read defensive big man or pass first point guard) that will help the team. Unfortunately, the Hawks are stuck with what they have for this season. As such, they should develop what talent they have so that they can decide which of the four small forwards on the team is a keeper and which can be traded for the desperately needed point guard or interior defense.

Quote: The reason the Hawks should have taken Paul instead of Marvin, is that good point guards are a lot harder to find then forwards. Marvin is going to be a very good player in 3 years, Paul is a very good player right now. I believe the Hawks would have won more games if they had Paul instead of Marvin. Next year it would have been easier to recruit players with Joe Johnson and Paul here. - Agreed. As a Suns fan you should know very well how important a good point guard is. Unfortunately, Hawks fans have not learned this lesson yet.

Diesel you are part right and JohnnyBravo is part right. The Hawks can't win with players playing out of position because they lack an on court leader (i.e. point guard) and off court leader (i.e. good coach). Seems like BK's plan has a few holes. Look what Nash is doing with a bunch of scrubs! He has Marion, but nothing else.

Quote: Actually there are multiple qualifiers. He's playing the 4 or 5 out there which means he's on the floor with a lot of other good playmakers who can get him the ball in scoring position. Did you see him the other night. He looked great. Better than he EVER looked here in any one game. Its a better system with better players. The only playmaker on the court with Diaw is Nash. Marion is a finisher. Otherwise, the rest of the Suns roster is not very talented - Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, James Jones, Leandro Barbosa, Eddie House. Not exactly world beaters.

I don't think diaw's numbers need to be qualified - if they did then you would need to do the same for JJ's numbers last year (in reality this may be appropriate given the dramatic dropoff in his field goal shooting %). Besides, the Suns are not as good this year due to the absence of Amare - the only legit stars they have left are Nash and Marion, everyone else is filler.

BK is also the guy who traded Mike Bibby for Jason Williams.

The two absolute worst moves by this franchise since I have been a fan are: 1. Trading Dominique Wilkins 2. Trading for Glenn Robinson - that single move set the Hawks back a decade. Someone whould have realized that his lack of defense and passing would be a death blow to a team already severely handicapped in those areas. If the team does not make that trade they probably win the same number of games if not more with the oft-injured Kukoc. Even if they didn't win more games, they would have TJ Ford now - who would be an absolute 100% difference maker on the current squad.

Quote: And Diaw didn't get an opportunity here? Come on now. Diaw was arguably one of the most passive players ever to put on a Hawks uniform. We literally had to beg the guy to shoot sometimes. In Phoenix, a good or a bad shot is OK, because they have a freak like Marion that can grab about 3 - 4 offensive boards a game. You might want to check your facts on that one. Phoenix has a much lower offensive rebound percentage then the Hawks and actually gets out-rebounded by their opponents by a pretty large margin. The Hawks, believe it or not, out-rebound their opponents and average a higher percentage of offensive rebounds then the Suns. Diaw is a good player whose value the organization did not see. Not everyone on the team needs to be a shooter - having players who do other things then shoot is essential to any team. For example: The Spurs have Bowen, who while a good three point shooter is not otherwise an offensive threat and does not look for his shot; The Pistons have Ben Wallace who certaintly does not look for his shot; The Lakers had two or three guys whose job was to do everything but shoot; The Bulls had Dennis Rodman who never scored; etc.

It is about opportunity. Zaza is getting one here and Diaw is getting one in Phoenix.