Packfill

The only interesting players on the Bulls roster from the Hawks perspective are Chandler and Hinrich. I highly doubt either are available especially in exchange for anyone on the Hawks roster.

The only two names on that free agent list that are even remotely interesting are Speedy Claxton and Ben Wallace. The signings/trades/draft picks you propose leave the team with only one legitimate scoring threat and three starters age 21 or younger. Not exactly a receipe for success.

Quote: marvin won't take 5 years to be good...it's just that he will likely be the best player in 5 years he's already pretty good and improving...and he's not the reason we are losing games...the joshes sleepwalking is the reason along with inconsistency, inexperience, youth, etc etc etc wait a few months and u'll see a team that actually looks the part Even if Marvin is the best player in five years, unless the Hawks have someone on the team like Paul that makes his teammates better by creating shots, setting tempo, etc., then the team will never succeed. You can say we will just get Rondo or Gibson next year, but we could have just as easily taken Paul this year and Rudy Gay next year - same difference.

Quote: Marvin will be a better player in the long run then Paul...Bigs always take a little more time to develop.. That being said...we should have taken Iguoudala(spelling?) instead of Childress...that dude is a Stud! I think people forget that Paul is still very young himself - he came out after his sophmore year, which for a point guard is pretty impressive. As for Marvin being a better player in the long run then Paul, you may be right, but I wonder if the fact that Paul will make the players around him better doesn't substantially mitigate that fact. Food for thought. Obviously it will be another two years before we know for sure, but right now the absence of a point guard and the rudderless nature of this team is telling.

Quote: if he doesn't learn to create his own shot then he either has to become a pf or move to the bench. Agreed.

Quote: having a real PG and having a solid paint defender will guarantee you more instant gratification. It doesn't mean that you will be the better team at season end. but the benefit of a floor leader has been a constant in basketball since its early days. That has not changed. Having someone who can defend the paint has always had a big impact. Those teams that have those things are naturally going to look more polished than we do at this point because they can fall back on decades old formulas for stability. right now we can't do that. We have to search for stability on teh floor when things get disrupted. I would say that by season end we will compare with Charlotte on the development scale. I think teh Knicks will be better than us because of the experience factor and portland will be better because they have a bonafied go-to guy in Randolph. You could make a pretty good team if you combined the rosters of Charlotte and Atlanta: PG - B. Knight, R. Felton SG - J. Johnson, S. Stoudamire, K. Rush SF - G. Wallace, M. Williams PF - E. Okafor; A. Harrington, S. May, J. Smith C - Z. Pachulia, P. Prezac, M. Ely

That is not news.

Quote: Quote: For all those that love to talk about basketball, but don't pay attention. No Ivey and Gibson didnt play at the same time since Gibson is a soph. but Ivey never played the point. Ever hear of a guy named T.J. Ford. Ivery played the SG in college, and we drafted him trying to make him a PG. For those who like to make condescending remarks - check your facts first. Ford was drafted after Ivey's junior year. Ivey took over the PG spot in Texas for his senior season. We drafted him after he was already a PG. You both are only partly right. Ivey did play point guard his senior year at Texas, but he is not a natural point guard like Ford or Gibson.

Quote: Yup, this discussion further brings up why we need to move Al. He's a combo forward that needs to play SF unless you have a big center. I dont think Smoove creates quite the same problem due to his rebounding and help defense abilities. Move Al if you can get something good for him. If not keep him and sign and trade or even trade him later down the road. We'll never be a great team with Al at PF unless we get Shaq to play with him. ZaZa is gonna have to be our starting center for a while, doubt we'll get anyone good enough to move him to the bench. To be great, this lineup needs to work or else we need more players: JJ Chill Marvin Smoove ZaZa I hope we fall into this lineup later in the year. It will put a huge load on JJ but I think as the year passes he'll be able to handle it. JJ needs some help with ballhandling and Chill and Marvin would have to get used to that. JJ would also have to defend AI and all the quick guards. Maybe we'd play alot of zone. I still want to see what that lineup would do for an extended trial. Doubt it would be winless if we had used it so far! That line-up does not work. No point guard and no post defender.

Zaza is better then advertised but his extremely low field goal shooting percentage is alarming (39.5%!!!!!) - expecially for a center/power forward who should not be shooting more then 10 feet from the basket. JJ and Al are shooting down around 42% as well, which doesn't help. Hawks really need a point guard who can get these guys some easy shots and improve the teams shooting and consistency overall. Either trade for Speedy Claxton or draft one in next years draft - there are no bigs to speak of so might as well go point guard.

Quote: Speaking of getting a PG here, I've come to the conclusion that we are debating the wrong player to trade for. I'm satisfied with Chillz, Smith and/or Williams coming off the bench and Johnson and Harrington will continue to be solid. From this day forth, my number one trade bait on the Hawks shall be... dun-dun-da-DUN... Tyrone Lue. Today I looked through a few of the losing teams in the league and came across the Bulls. I wonder if they would be willing to trade Jannero Pargo and Malik Allen for Lue. Both of these players look pretty productive (stat-wise) in the minutes they play: Pargo is a 6'1" PG with 5 pts. 3 asts. 2 brds. 1 stl. with around 1.5 TOs in just 15 mins. and Allen is a 6'10" PF with a career avg. of 7 pts. 4 brds. and almost a blk in 20 mins. These aren't fabulous numbers but I'd be willing since they are both relatively young. We could start Salim and have Pargo and Ivey back him up. I'd like Hinrick, but I doubt Chicago would want to take any combo of the players we'd be willing to trade. Still, if they would take Lue, Delk, a future 2nd and some cash, I'd be willing. PG - Hinrick / Salim / Ivey SG - Johnson / D.Smith SF - Childress / J.Smith PF - Harrington / Williams / Allen C - Zaza / Edwards / Batista That's a pretty strong fundamental starting line. Lue is bird poop. He is worthless in a trade. Getting Hinrick for anything short of Joe Johnson is a pipe dream. I would trade Smoove or Marvin for him if the Bulls would do it, but they wouldn't.

Quote: it doesn't matter; we are going to go for rudy gay It's inevitable. I am preparing myself now, I suggest everyone else do the same.

The only problem is that three of those legitimate NBA starters play the same position and the other plays the same position as the teams best player. Maybe you can trade one or two of them, but if their minutes are limited it is going to be hard to get full value for their talents.

Quote: okafor spent 4 years in college. felton two. josh smith, 0. marvin williams, 1. have patience. Yes, but Okafor and Felton play different positions. Okafor and May play the same position but in todays NBA a team could certainly get away with them at the 4/5. Marvin and Smoove play the same position - small forward, just like Childress and Harrington.

Quote: paper doesn't get wins marbury will NOT get us to the playoffs and we will NOT have the assets to get the pieces we need to get there if we get marbury marbury is the last thing we need...i'd rather trade for wang zhizhi than marbury Agreed.

Quote: Quote: I don't think that Charlotte has more talent than us. That leads me to believe they have better coaching than we do. to be honest the main difference is that their main pieces complement one another much better than ours Agreed, which is why they are going to be more successful over the long hall.

Out of the point guards that may become available during this season, I think the guy to target is Speedy Claxton. He can run a team and can handle 4th quarter pressure - remember when he was in San Antonio he usually closed the game over Parker (albeit Parker was younger). He has been solid wherever he plays but has never truly been given the opportunity to be the guy. Not sure what it would take to get him, but if the team is still rudderless come midseason I would consider some combination of Childress (because at that point we should know whether he will return to his form of last season or whether he will just be a back-up to Williams/Smoove/Johnson/etc.), Lue, Delk, Donta, second round pick.

I don't understand the whole NBA ready thing with respect to Marvin. One of his best attributes is an advanced skill set, so shouldn't that mean he is more NBA ready then the pure athletes like Smoove? Plus he had a year of college ball under his belt.

He needs to be aggressive. I am not sure that is something he does naturally.

Quote: Quote: Then draft a point guard, wait a year or two for seasoning, and see what happens. Simply put, I can't see that happening unless Knight is fired. He knows he doesn't have two to three years beyond this one to turn out a winning team. You don't trade away a large percentage of cap space and two draft picks on a really bad team expecting the process to take three more years while you wait on a rookie PG. He'll want to bring in a good PG with experience via a trade who can lead the team, and then sign/draft as many big men as he can find. I don't think there is a veteran point guard available who really can lead a team. Watson is o.k., but more of a secondary player. If Nash, Kidd, Ford, Parker, Hinrich or Miller become available, sure, but that is not likely to happen. The guy I would target is Speedy Claxton - probably can be had later in the season as Paul gets more PT.

Quote: Quote: Exactly why our problem isn't just a lack of a 'great' PG. We need more options down low other than Al. But look at last year. Chill and Smoove while not posting up were still scoring a lot in the paint and getting lots of rebounds. Any PG that we could trade for is going to have the same problem: who do I give it to that's going to score. Bingo. The only two adjustments the Spurs made were: 1. To put Bowen on Al, which worked putridly well. 2. To attack the paint on offense. A 'great' PG wouldn't have changed either of those problems. (It wouldn't have hurt either). I disagree, a good point guard can get players easy shots by driving and dishing. Obviously that does not help the defense, but it at least keeps the score respectible. The lack of interior defense is a huge issue, but unfortunately harder to address. If the Hawks unload Al they need a point guard to create easy shots for the young guys - cause they can't carry the Hawks for a stretch like Al can. If they trade Al, it should be for a defensive oriented big (might not be possible). Then draft a point guard, wait a year or two for seasoning, and see what happens.

Royal and Donta are good prospects but don't kid yourself by thinking every team in the league doesn't have similar prospects sitting on their bench. By way of example, Detroit has Darko and Carlos Delfino sitting on the bench; Boston has Kendrick Perkins; New Jersey has rookie Antoine Wright; Washington has Peter John Ramos and Andre Blatche; Utah has Kirk Humphries; Portland has Travis Outlaw, Jarrett Jack and Martel Webster; LAL has Andrew Bynum and Brian Cook; etc.

None of the above. None are point guards.

Quote: Someone tell me the last team to win a Championship that didn't have a top notch defense. In the last 15 years: San Antonio? Detroit? LA? Chicago? Houston? Detroit? Anyone noticing a trend? This is as clear a message as possible. It absolutely takes good interior defense to win an NBA title. I do think good point guard play can make up for a ton of other deficiencies during the regular season. The Hawks need both a true point guard and an interior defensive presence in the worst way. The point guard becomes even more important if the Hawks trade or do not sign Harrington, because he is one of two Hawks that can create a shot for himself. A good point guard would go a long way towards bringing out the best in the Hawks you wings (Childress, Smoove and Marvin). Next years draft seems devoid of real big men so I think the obvious route to go is point guard, since several talented ones may be available (Rondo, Gibson, Brewer, Washington, etc.). Once the Hawks get that point guard they can make the big step towards being competitive game in game out during the regular season, then they just have to get a big man (obviously no easy task, but might as well knock off one of the two needs on the team while they can).

Quote: jj is a top 10 pg in this league woody is in love with lue for some reason, which is annoying jj has not failed at pg, and even when he is in as sg with lue/slim he still brings the ball up half the time, so he's still acting as pg a lot of the time when 82games.com or other stats say he's playing sg JJ is many things - a talented scorer, defender, ballhandler, passer, etc. - but he is NOT a point guard. He is a multitalented guard who can play point guard, similar to Steve Francis and Allen Iverson, but his talents are not obtimized to run the point unless he is paired with a similar multitalented guard. There needs to be a second ballhandler on the court - someone who can push the pace a bit. That said, Lue is terrible and it is clear JJ is the best "point guard" on the Hawks, but that does not mean anything.