Packfill

Quote: You are always willing to just take on insane contracts but thank God Billy would never do something like that. Fisher is signed through 2009/2010. Do you realize that? His average salary is about 6.5 million over that time as well. His production isnt anywhere near that either. Plus, Al by himself is at least worth the #9 pick, if not a #5 like Jamison got. Then you want to take on Fishers contract, plus give up the Lakers pick? No way dude. I like the thought of getting Deron and Frye, but I would do it another way. If Deron isnt available at #5 then I keep Marvin Williams and let the roster sort itself out. If he is there I move him to Charlotte and take their #13. I might be willing to move down in the 2nd to move up a bit in the 1st to get Frye if I really think he is worth it. Otherwise I take Petro and drive on. The reason the Mavs got the 5th pick from the Wizards for Jamison is partly because they were willing to take on Stackhouse's large contract.

Quote: Desiel - IMO, your best arguments are not that point guards are more scarce or better than similarly elite big men. Your best arguments are that the risk is too high to go with anything less than a superstar pick (David Robinson, Shaq, Duncan, etc.) and that there is no superstar big man in this draft. You can then argue that the next most important position and hardest to fill is at PG and that we will get maximum value by filling that spot in this draft. That all makes sense but the arguments about the effect of a dominant big man or the scarcity of point guards v. centers don't make any sense to me or seem to me to be arguing a different point (such as you taking the argument that point guards are more scarce and converting it into an argument that it is not as necessary to have a dominant big man). Well said.

If he is there at 31 then he is definitely worth the risk. Obviously, there is no guarantee he amounts to anything but in the second round he is worth it. Probably will be taken in the bottom third of the first round.

Quote: You don't draft a PG guard with the #2 pick in the draft. We take Bogut or Williams and add a PG later. The last PG who won the MVP in the Championship game was Isiah (1990). Lets get some BIGS! Chauncey Billups was finals MVP last year. He was also the number 3 pick in the draft.

Deron was one of the best perimeter defenders in college basketball last year. He shut down NBA caliber talents/athletes S. Stoudamire, D. Garcia, C. Paul and all comers in the Big 10. By comparison no one questions Jason Terry's foot speed but he is a crappy defender. John Stockton was not fleet of foot but was still an excellent defender. Same with Dennis Johnson, Terry Porter, and Fat Lever. Every player in the draft has huge question marks - is Bogut athletic enough? Does Marvin have a position? Is Chris Paul tall enough? Can Gerald Green put on weight? Is Chris Taft lazy, stupid or both?

I agree. Swift is a waste of money.

Quote: Quote: Outside of Shaq and Duncan... What Big men has made their teams automatic finals material? After this year, they will account for 6 of the last 7 championships. Depending on how you look at last year's pistons team, the last championship team to have a PG carry their team to a title was the 1989 pistons. I don't know about you guys, but it seems to me that the 80s was a long time ago. Anyhow, we won't be able to get Bogut, but it is clear that if you can get a PG or a C of equal dominance, you take the big man. Quote: Kidd. Kidd goes to NJ and turns them into a finals candidate. He's the best PG in the game, he got swept in the first round. Swept. And that's after a furious comeback in the standings to squeeze into the playoffs. Despite having two all stars with him. Why? Because they ran into a big man and there's no making up for it. There is no way that happens to Shaq or TD. They won't struggle to make the playoffs. They won't lose in the first round, much less get swept. Even a hobbled Shaq. I can only imagine if they had 2 all stars with them. You're making my point for me. KIDD ONLY MADE IT TO THE FINALS WHEN THE EAST HAD NO BIG MEN WHATSOEVER. OTHERWISE HE WOULD NOT HAVE. I don't understand what the debate is about here - if the choice is between a dominant bigman and a dominate point guard you obviously pick the big man, as they are harder to find. The situation the Hawks are in right now however is not making a decision between a dominate big man and a point guard because there are no dominate big men available. Again Bogut is the only one who remotely can be considered a dominate big man but he will not likely be available to the Hawks. As such, there is no dominate big man to choose. Shaq, Duncan or Hakeem are not walking through the Hawks door anytime soon. Marvin is a wing, not a big man. There is no guarantee he fulfills his enormous potential, and if he does what position he does it at and what that means for Chill and Smoove. I say pick the point guard in this draft and get the dominate big man next year or through free agency. Last I checked no team led by a dominate wing player has won a championship in recent years except for Michael Jordan's Bulls and Larry Bird's Celtics (Larry did have a hall-of-fame center to help). Similarly only two point guard dominated have won championships in the past 20 years, including Magic Johnson's Lakers and Issiah Thomas' Pistons. Maybe the morale of the story is you need a hall-of-famer to win a championship - i.e., Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Jordan, Magic, Bird. The statistical outlier is the Piston's from last year.

Quote: if we actually draft bynum that early, i may drive to the draft itself and slap BK...no offense, but that's clearly a homer pick. Not that Bynum - he is refering to the high school 7-footer.

I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion that a truly dominate big man is the absolute most important piece to a championship team. The problem with this draft is that the only one with any potential to be a dominate big man is Bogut (and even that is far from a guarantee). Marvin Williams is more small forward then power forward so it is hard to put him in the "big man" category. The point Diesal is trying to make - and a point that makes a lot of sense - is that given what is available in this draft the Hawks can at least acquire a point guard with the potential to have a significant impact on the teams on court performance. In other words, since there is no dominate big man available - take the potentially great distributer (Paul or D. Williams, take your pick).

Quote: PG is the one position that can change a team. PG is the hardest position to master. PG is the hardest position to fill. Most championship quality teams have good PGs. I don't think Ivey is good enough. I think Defensively he's solid but can he run the offense? If there is a star PG, I say we have to consider him strongly. I absolutely agree. After suffering through years of poor point guard play it is amazing that anyone could question the value of a good point guard. All four teams remaining in the playoffs have excellent point guards. A point guards worth is measured not in their individual statistics but on their impact on the team as a whiole. That is why a player like Steve Nash is better then a Steve Francis even though Francis may have better "numbers." Nash makes his teammates better whereas a non-gifted distrubter does not. Think about what a good point guard could mean to Josh Smith.

The Bucks do not need a point guard either as TJ Ford is reportedly on the mend. They also have Mo Williams who did a credible job this past year at the point - and he is still very young. If Milwaukee is pressured to win now as opposed to later then the obvious pick is Bogut, as he is likely closer to contributing then Marvin.

Quote: The only reason it was a draft Goof was because PTL did not consider Bowie's injury history. Had Bowie not been injury prone, you'd be talking about how great that draft was. I notice that NOBODY ever mentions that Olajuwon went ahead of Jordan and Bowie?? Wonder why? Maybe because Olajuwon never got injured and UNLIKE Jordan, he sigle handedly won a championship and by that I mean no other allstar or star on his team. I guess guys like Clyde Drexler, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe and the like were chop liver.

What is it about Marvin Williams that everyone, including the experts, considers him to be such a top prospect? Obviously he is young and has talent, but he does not have one aspect of his game that really stands out, he is a good but not great athlete and he has good but not great size. I think he has all the tools to become a very good player, but not necessarily a game changer. I think he will be like Carmelo Anthony, a very good player but not necessarily someone who can get you over the top without some help. Maybe I just did not see him play enough. I think what people need to consider with respect to the point guard prospects available is not only the talent they bring to the table but how they will make other players on the team better. A point guard like Tyrone Lue does not make his teammates better. Kidd, Nash, TJ Ford, etc. are examples of guys who make their teammates better. If either Paul or D. Williams can do that, then they need to be considered at the 2 pick regardless of whether they are too short or too slow.

If the Hawks take Marvin Williams the Blazers are kind of screwed because the value at the three pick will be in the form of a point guard - either Paul or D. Williams, but Portland has no need for either with Telfair already in the fold. They will be forced to reach for someone like Green or one of the international big men in the draft. As a result, Portland might want to trade up to 2 to ensure that they get M. Williams. If the Hawks prefer one of the points then they could get something from Portland in return. Question is what? the 35th pick does not seem very enticing because the Hawks can only fit so many second rounders on their roster, maybe a future first.

I don't like that trade. Livingston is good but Wilcox is not as talented as Al. They would at least need to include their lottery pick.

As of right now I don't care as long as it is a top 3 pick, since there is no clear cut number one at this time and there are 3-4 players that would really help the Hawks. So if they get the first pick great, pick Bogut pending workouts. If the Hawks get the second or third pick, then they can take a point guard, whichever they like better. Either way a significant hole has been filled.

I think Al will be a Hawk next year. I also think this is a good thing. He, along with Smoove will be the starting forwards.

I don't understand the argument that it is a negative that a smaller point guard will get posted up by a larger opponent. How many point guards not named Magic Johnson or Mark Jackson have you seen posting people up? If Smoove plays power forward won't larger power forwards with well developed post games post him up? Now, I am still torn as to who the Hawks would take if they get the first pick, but to worry about your point guard getting posted up is very far down the list of issues.

I am not a big fan of Francis, I don't think he can play point. Plus he is like Marbury, good stats but little impact on winning percentage.

I rather just do Al for thier lottery pick since there is no way Cassell plays in Atlanta - he bitched about his contract all year in Minn. and there is no way he will play for a bottom feeder without a big contract revision. The guy basically quit on them last year, forget him.

The 19th picks does not excite me too much because I think all the point guards will be gone (i.e., Jack, Felton, Ukic). I also think Frye will be gone and guys like Diogu and Simien are not worth trading up for.

I would not do that trade, if J-Will can't finish a game in Memphis he won't be able to do it in Atlanta. Much more flash then substance to his game. Lorenzen Wright does not excite me either.

I chose Dalembert and "other", the other being Al Harrington. I think a quality point guard and center, coupled with the continued development of Al, Chill and Smoove goes a long way towards improving the Hawks.

I pretty much agree with you that he really is not undersized, but the Knicks have a number of players of similar stature (i.e., K. Thomas, M. Sweetney, J. Williams, M. Rose), so he doesn't really work there unless they get a center. Personally, I rather keep him.

The last thing the Knicks need is another undersized power forward.