Packfill

Quote: Quote: Quote: Hinrich is pretty good but no need for Hinrich or Duhon when you have bibby and Law on your team..we're okay at point. We need to improve with post scoring and post defense too what team did you watch? bibs is declining and acie didn't show much ALL SEASON. oh, yeah, woody kept him on the bench right?... or maybe it was his countless injuries and unwillingness to take an open shot that kept him there. Hinrich would be a huge upgrade at the PG for us. Agree and disagree PP420...I think a fully healthy Bibby will be fairly good next year - he can shoot the ball and help us protect the home court (I hope). As far as Acie - hopefully he will play in the summer league again - he definitely needs work. I wouldn't say Hinrich would be a HUGE upgrade...but probably a decent upgrade. Bibby will want to come out cranking next year (and hopefully 100% healthy) to keep "Team Dime" in the money and on top with a new contract. According to Kings fans Bibby always has some type of nagging injury.

Quote: Quote: Deng was battling injuries all season so your comparisons don't hold much weight. Last season Deng was better than Marvin this year by a wide margin. I find this argument absolutely hilarious. Marvin battles injuries and has four different PG's, but he "just sucks," while "Deng had an off-year." Deng is one of the focal points of the offense, while Marvin is asked to expend significantly more energy on the defensive energy, yet Marvin "just sucks." I'm not going to bother to go into much detail, but Deng actually improved statistically in several important areas this past season, including offensive rebounding, 3pt%, passing, and overall defensive contributions. Objectivity has just about died away on Hawksquawk these days. The reason why Exodus' argument holds true in this intance is that Deng was actually much better during his third season, and had a very impressive playoff run last year. Marvin has not yet had that type of results. I also think that players are not "made" the focal point of an offense. Rather they attain that role through talent and determination. Guys on the team know who to give the ball.

Quote: Childress numbers barely went down and on a per minute basis probably went up a little. Calderons numbers went up a little but again on a per minute basis it was about even from last year. The only place that Calderon has a real advantage is in assists and that's to be expected since he is a PG. Childress scored more, rebounded more, had more blocks, and shot a higher FG%. Calderon was better in assists by a large margin, and was a little better at FT's and 3PT's. I think Calderon is the better player and more valuable since he is a PG but if we could have gotten him before the season then I'm sure we could still get him now since neither player was much better this season on a per minute basis than they were last year. I can almost guarantee that Toronto would not trade Calderon for Childress.

Quote: Apparently we could have, according to the reports of BK saying that ownership nixed it. Well, obviously that was before this season when Calderon's numbers went way up and Childress' numbers went down.

Quote: While I dont agree they are the same players I agree 100 % about signing humphrey. Its just crazy to me the best shooter in college basketball his senior year, and a guy who was just a big to the back to back championships as green, horford, brewer, and noah were, doesnt make an nba squad. JJ Redick has much better range, shoots the mid range better, runs better of picks, and has a little more size but if somehow we had JJ and Humphrey(2 of my favorite players the past few years in college basketball) Id probably [censored] myself lol. The Hawks already tried the undersized college shooting guard thing with Salim and it didn't work out. The Hawks would be much better off getting a guy with some decent size that is a good shooter.

Quote: If you can score a deal like the Celtics or Lakers did for Gasol and Garnett you definitely do it, IMO. The Gasol deal you do every time no matter where you are in your development - that is pure windfall. The Garnett deal was very good as well (not as disproportionate) and a veteran top 10 guy in the NBA is worth the risk, IMO. Completely agree. Future "potential" is nice but it is the veteran teams that win championships and sacrificing some youth for a legitimate chance to win a championship, like the Celtics did, is a no brainer decision for any GM. San Antonio is going to need to rebuild after Duncan retires but rebuilding is a little sweeter after a nice championship run. Rebuilding after plateauing at 50 or so wins and no championships sucks all around.

Quote: Hinrich is a mid level NBA starter, he is worth about the same as Childress around the league (as much as you would deny that). If the Bulls were wanting out of his contract early they would gladly take Bibby who makes them better offensively and worse defensively and close to a wash compared to Hinrich but they are out of his contract by the trading deadline or worst case end of the season. If we could have gotten Calderon for Childress we could definitely get Hinrich for him as Calderon is a better PG than Hinrich. There is no way Childress is as valuable as Hinrich. And there is no chance in the world that the Hawks could get Calderon for Childress.

Quote: I would definitely consider that trade since it would get us out of Speedy's contract. It would allow us to move Marvin for a young player or lotto pick since JJ could slide to the 3. I didn't realize that his contract was declining and you are right he will only be making around 8 million in 2011-2012. At that rate we probably could keep both he and Acie. Why do the Hawks need a younger player than Marvin? The Hawks need veterans.

Quote: Quote: Quote: LMAO Hopefully the Bulls take Beasley #1 Wasn't everybody laughing at the Celtics this time last season? How did that turn out for them? If they don't win 2 more series I can make a strong argument for "not well." They traded away Al Jefferson who may be on par with Kevin Garnett if you need a Big Man next year. They also traded away a bunch of 1st rounders for KG and the #5 pick (which was weak admittedly) in last years draft for Ray Allen. If they don't win the title it will cripple their franchise for years. Why are Hawks fans always so concerned about the future and not about the present. Teams don't win championship on potential and as good as Al Jefferson is he is not good enough to carry a team alone.

Quote: this actually works out good for the heat because its a slim chance that chicago takes rose over beasely.... miami wanted rose from the start and he will more than likely fall to them at #2!!! chicago biggest need is an inside scorer and beasely fits that bill Hinrich/Duhon Hughes/Sefolosha Deng/Nocioni Beasley/Gooden/Thomas Noah/Gray Assuming they sign Deng and not Gordon. Could be a lot worse. A Deng, Beasley Noah frontline could be quite imposing in a few years. Better then Marvin, Smoove and Horford?

To me this is not a good sign that a qualified candidate like Lindsey is pulling out. Smells fishy. Let's hope for the best.

Quote: This is arthroscopic knee surgery... just going in and looking for minor cartilage damage and, if it's there, cleaning it up. Not that big of a deal and a short recovery time. He should be fine. Amare and Oden had microfracture surgery, which is much more serious and some guys (CWebb, Penny, Allan Houston) never recover. Bynum is still one of the game's elite prospects and pretty close to untradeable... certainly not "damaged goods" as you so ignorantly put it. Agreed. Bynum still has great long term potential.

He is a bust only in terms of draft position and who the Hawks passed up to take him. He is a decent enough player but so far has not been a difference maker, and that is what you want from a #2 pick.

No.

Someone really thinks Marvin has more trade value the guys like Rudy Gay, LaMarcus Aldridge, Luol Deng, Kevin Durant, Monta Ellis and Jose Calderon? Marvin isn't a bum but he doesn't have the production or the upside of those other guys.

Quote: Quote: I agree. You only trade Smith for another star caliber player. If the Mavs have something in mind, it has to be some sort of multiple team deal that sees us getting a very nice player in return. Marvin is pretty much progressing at the same exact rate as Howard, so it would be redundant to trade for a guy like Josh Howard. So if they want Smith, talk to another team that can send us a very good player, because Dallas has nothing we can use, outside of Dirk. And I also agree that Smith should work on everything besides shooting in the offseason. Work on a go-to move in the post. Get stronger. And most importantly, get and plat tougher. A three team (or more) deal is going to be hard to pull off. But you have to listen. I am of the opinion that very few players are un-tradable in sports. Smith is in the get max value realm, but not untouchable. Gregg Maddux in his prime was untouchable (why did the Cubs let him go?). Jordan/Bird/Magic/ all the same. In the current NBA the only guys I would not trade are: LeBron Kobe Wade Dwight Howard Horford Chris Paul Deron Williams Duncan Parker Other than that, as a GM you have to listen but be overwhelmed for guys like Greg Oden (needs a season to see what he can do, may move to untouchable) Brandon Roy KG Arenas? (if healthy he may go up a notch) Amare Mota Ellis (that kid is amazing) Devin Harris (horrible trade by Dallas) Loul Deng Brand Bosh Deliberate Omissions from the 2nd tier: AI (old) Carmelo (headcase?) Dirk (box of Klenex) I can't think of more guys right now, but I am sure this sort of listing could be expandanded greatly Does anyone think that Dallas may offer Kidd as part of a deal for Smith? Kidd is not nearly enough IMO due to age, but Kidd would certainly be a GREAT addition to the Hawks. Horford had a nice rookie year, but to put him in the same category as some of those other guys at this point is premature.

Quote: Chills got us 12ppg off the bench with 10 less minutes a game as opposed to Iggy. The real key is Chills shot 57%. There is no doubt in my mind that Chills could easily put up the stats Iggy puts up in Philly with a much better shooting %. Especially with the way Philly was running the ball after Stefanski took over as gm. Igoudala is a superior player to Childress. That is obvious, so I am not sure why you are trying to argue the point.

Quote: I just dont see JJ as a sf and I certainly dont see Roy as a point guard. If Portland had any confidence Roy could play point he would start there over Steve Blake thats for sure. Steve Blake is a better option at point guard then any other shooting guard on the Portland's roster is as a starting shooting guard - if Roy was playing point.

Quote: Quote: Quote: The owners won't allow the team to be gutted for another rebuilding effort. So the new GM, with limited autonomy, will need to work the fringes of the roster. And significantly improve the talent drafted when we have draft picks again (in '10). But I also think the GM needs to be media-friendly and help sell season tickets, now that the city has had a chance to experience playoff basketball. The irony is that BK did a good job of selecting draft picks later in the draft... at least based on Smith and Diaw. And hopefully, we will be selecting after pick 16 for many years to come. I do not hink it is feasabile to hire a GM and have his hands tied. i.e can not fire the coach, can not trade core players, no draft picks, and after resigning smith and chills no cap room. It does not bode well my friend. The reason we are just a 37 win team with no draft picks and no cap space is because BK f'd up. That is not fair. All BK had to work with was: - 7 first round draft picks (Diaw, Childress, Smith, Marvin, Shelden, Horford, Law), including 4 high lottery picks (Childress, Marvin, Shelden and Horford); - 5 second round picks (Hansen, Donta, Ivey, Salim, Jones); - two trades for max contract guys (JJ and Bibby); and - a bunch of free agent coin (LoWright, Speedy, Zaza, etc.);

Quote: I know some of you were saying Billy King knows how to build a team with a center and a point guard. I know alot of you say thats how titles are won. Well I think its pretty well established that is BULLSHYYT. Take Kings 76ers to start. Yes they made the playoffs this season with their best player being their pg Andre Miller and Dalembert is an ok center but they arent close to a title contender. When the 76ers made the finals their best player was an undersized 2 guard and they didnt really even have a center till we traded them Deke after the all star break. At that point Deke was at best all star reserve quality. Anyway they lost to a team that won 3 titles with a great center and 2 guard and pg's who I really cant even remember, Lue and Fischer maybe? far from great. Look at the Spurs they never have had anything close to a great point guard or center. Their best player is a pf and he has been the only mainstay to win all those titles beside the coach. Parker came of age last year but they won alot of titles before that and I still would not say Parker is great. How about the Bulls they had a All time 2 guard who was complimented well by a role playing sf. That team won 6 titles with nothing even close to a good point guard or center. The last team that won titles with a great point and great center was the old Lakers with Magic and Kareem. I think that proves you can win with one or the other or even neither. This just goes to show that you need either a super strong ensemble type team with top point guard play (Pistons w/ Billups and before that with Isiah Thomas) or you have have one of the top two or three players in the league on your team (i.e., Spurs w/ Duncan; Miami w/ Wade and Shaq; Lakers w/ Kobe and Shaq; Houston w/ Hakeem; Chicago w/ Jordan; Lakers w/ Magic; and Boston w/ Bird). No team except for the pistons have one a title in the past 20+ years without one of the most dominant players in the game on their team. Too bad the Hawks don't have one of those. Oh, and those Piston teams had hall-of-fame coaching.

Quote: I certainly wouldn't want him taking minutes from Acie, but what Speedy being healthy does is it allows us to play Acie/Speedy as PGs and let's Bibby play some SG minutes so that JJ can get more rest. You are right even if he is healthy he probably won't remain so, but maybe all of this time off has healed the rest of his body and sure he will be rusty, but if you remember back to how important of a role he played on the Hornets the year before we signed him it's easy to see how that player could really help us a lot. I'm still not going to hold my breath about him ever playing for us again though. He did have a great year - for him - with the Hornets. But seeing the success Pargo has had this year with NO I am beginning to wonder if it was just due to the Chris Paul halo effect. NO is a nice contrast to the Hawks in terms of team building strategies. NO focused on point guard, post scorer and defensive oriented big man. They then filled out their roster with whatever wings they could get their hands on, but Peja and MoPete are replaceable whereas the others are not. Hawks on the other hand focused on wings early and are now getting around to post scorer, defensive big man and point guard.

Quote: Quote: 4. Who cares? We certainly cannot count on him but a healthy Speedy makes us a MUCH better team and we might even be able to get something for him at the trade deadline if he is healthy. At this point since he didn't retire we really need to hope that he will be healthy, otherwise he just keeps eating at our cap without helping one bit. Speedy at best has been an effective back-up player. To think he will make a significant impact after a year and a half lay-off is asking alot. Plus, even if he starts the season healthy the chances of him playing an entire season are almost 0% since he has never done it before. Hawks will be better off in the long run giving those minutes to Law to see if he is the long term solution or not. I doubt Speedy comes back healthy enough to contribute in a meaningful way and I am certain no one would give up much to get him since he is the ultimate in damaged goods.

Quote: Because salaries are guaranteed. Also the recent moves by the ASG seem to indicate that they really are doing business as if there was no suit. They fired and replaced the hockey coach, traded for a PG who makes over $14 million per year etc... Ownership aside, the GM and coaching positions are very desirable in my opinion. It's a very young ball club that has presumably been through its worst struggles, has been severely undercoached, and is ready to take the next step. This is a very different situation from 2-3 years ago when you knew that whoever was GM/coach was going to have to get through the rough times. I think the only real concern would have been if Belkin comes in and cleans house. But I think it seems less likely now that Belkin would be able to win his argument. On top of that, the thought was that he would want to fire the crap out of BK and whoever he'd hired as coach. Now that BK is gone, if he's involved in the discussion of who to get as the replacement, I don't think it would be an automatic firing if he did take over. BK's the guy who wouldn't shake his hand. So if it seems like the AS is more or less in control, willing to spend on players and on the GM/coach, I think that smart candidates would love to take this job. On the GM side there are no horrible contracts other than Speedy, and a ton of young talent. A ballsy GM would only need one bold trade to really balance this roster and have us contending in the conference. And a coach would not need to be Red Auerbach to be considerably better than Woody and really look good establishing us as a respectable team in the east. I guess what I'm saying is that even if the ownership did look really uncertain, it's still a great place to make your name and cash a guaranteed check. Secondly, I don't see how there is no indication that the owners are willing to spend. I think they have shown that, to most people's surprise. The "smart" GM candidates aren't going to take the job if they are forced to retain an underachieving coach.

Quote: What idiot didn't think Durant deserved a spot on the All-Rookie team? I like Horford getting the unanimous bid and all but how does Durant not deserve a spot on the first team? Woody?

Quote: The Utah Jazz. Deron, AK, Boozer, Okur. Acie, Smoove, Horford, Andersen. The difference being is that we have a guy in JJ that Utah dreams about. That and Acie has to come out and prove himself. If we get a new coach or assistant, we should get somebody who knows how to teach spacing and work with PGs. For coach I like Fratello, Harris, and Johnson. For Assistant I like Gentry and Bryan Hill. When you break it down like this it really does seem simple. All the Hawks need is for Acie Law to become one of the top 3 or 4 point guards in the league and for Al Horford to become one of the top 5 power forwards in the league.