Packfill

You have to be an idiot to not realize when a drink is "strong." If any Hawk player is using this as an excuse they have only themselves to blame.

Quote: And had the Hawks hired Mike Brown instead of Mike Woodson in 2004, you would be sitting here saying the same thing about Mike Brown. Why is it that Portland, despite being a younger team, won more games then the Hawks - and this despite missing Oden for the entire season (imagine if the Hawks did not have Horford all season)? Why were the Bulls able to win a playoff series and have a winning season in '06-'07 despite being equally youthful as the the '07-'08 Hawks? The Hawks won 30 games in '06-'07. During that season JJ, Smith, Marvin and Childress all missed significant time. The Hawks won 37 games in '07-'08 and were one of the healthiest teams in the league and added more experience (from Smith, Marvin and Childress), Horford and Bibby (for part of the season). What a breakthrough performance by Woody!!!!!! Why have the Hawks young players improved so slowly as compared to other young players in the NBA? Marvin was a number 2 pick three years ago and is still a complimentary player. LaMarcus Aldridge was a number 2 pick two years ago and is a go-to guy for his team. Josh Smith still hasn't corrected any of his obvious flaws from his rookie year. Childress is almost the same player he was as a rookie. Shelden, Salim, Solo and Law have not made any progress, and in the cases of Shelden, Salim and Law, one could argue they regressed. Why don't the Hawks run an offense? They have a veteran backcourt so you would think the two guys that handle the ball much of the time could get them into some kind of offensive set. Avery Johnson won 67 games last year despite having Jason Terry playing heavy minutes at point guard! It is not like he had Steve Nash to work with (except for the first 16 or so games of his head coaching career). What are Woody's excuses?

Quote: You cannot contrast Avery's winning percentage versus Mike's winning percentage, because they both came in two totally different situations. Avery inherited a very talented team. Mike took over a team that was building from the ground up. It's why I have always maintained that it didn't matter who the Hawks hired back in 2004, that person was coming into a bad situation and wasn't going to win big until about year 5. Avery took over a talented and stable team that had a solid and stable coaching staff. He didn't have to come in and find his own assistants. All he had to do was come in and establish a defensive philosophy, because the Mavs knew they had to get defensive minded if they wanted to win a championship. Avery is a very good coach, IMO, but he currently has two black marks on his record now. First, his 67 win team was ousted in the first round of the playoffs last season by a team that doesn't play a lick of defense. Second, his team won 16 fewer games in '07-'08 than they did in '06-'07. When evaluating Avery Johnson, you have to evaluate why that drop off happened and what happened in the 2007 playoffs that caused this team to get beat in the first round by a team that had no business beating them. You also have to evaluate how much of an effect having Del Harris as his top assistant helped him, because that is an aspect of Avery's coaching that is being overlooked right now. Maybe you weren't paying attention but what happened to the Maverick's in both the 2007 and 2008 playoffs were spectacular performances by the oppositions point guard (i.e., Baron Davis and Chris Paul).

Quote: Once again, there is absolutely no credible evidence that suggests this ownership group, other than Steve Belkin, has tried to overrule the GM on personnel decisions. The only thing this group did was balk at firing Mike Woodson in February. The fans jumped on that because they were out for blood, and Woodson's blood was what they wanted. It is a typical knee jerk fan reaction. The fact is, more level heads prevailed in this, because had a coaching change been made, chances are this team probably wouldn't have made a playoff run. That isn't a defense of Mike Woodson, but it is a defense of having some stability. How many times has hiring an interim coach ever worked? The ownership made the right move by not firing him in February. Now, the right move is to explore the opportunities to improve, and the Hawks are in a situation where they need to settle the GM position first. The fact is, Mike Woodson isn't a great head coach, but he also isn't nearly as bad as some make out on this board. The Hawks can most definitely improve, but this isn't a case where anyone would be better than Mike Woodson. Now that Sam Vincent and Issiah Thomas have been fired I am not sure there are any coaches left worse then Woodson.

Quote: Quote: I think ASG is content with keeping Mike Woodson and is searching for a GM that will say that he's willing to work with Mike Woodson. So, I think this GM search is essentially screwed from the get go, because they are going to automatically limit the pool of candidates to those that are willing to work with Mike Woodson, IMO. It is reassuring to think that we might be limiting our pool of GMs to that wide group who don't want to pick their own coach, will come to work for unstable ownership, and who must support a coach who underacheived in his best season in 4 years as a head coach. A sobering reality indeed.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Billy Knight wanted to fire Woody. Of course any new decent GM would want to fire him and likely would not allow the ASG to resign him in the first place. From the quotes we are seeing from Gearon, it may be that GM candidates are being told that they need to be ready to work with Woodson. If that is the case be prepared to see the Hawks hire a very underwhelming GM candidate, since a GM candidate with a decent resume wouldn't agree to those terms. The fact that it looks like ownership is going to re-up Woody means that the best case scenerio for GM is a guy like King. King has experience. Knows how to build teams. Knows how to spot talent. Has mistakes to learn from. And most importantly with our situation is that he's already good with Wood and his staff. The worse case scenerio for us is to bring in a GM that will limit Wood's power in coaching (i get the feeling that this is what happened with BK this third year. Still the thing I hate is that Wood makes too many mistakes as a coach. We really need an Offensive coordinator. Alvin Gentry, Terry Porter or some other offensive specialist. The Hawks need a good head coach. Woody is not that guy. Why handcuff a new GM with the old GM's mistake?

Quote: Quote: Billy Knight wanted to fire Woody. Of course any new decent GM would want to fire him and likely would not allow the ASG to resign him in the first place. From the quotes we are seeing from Gearon, it may be that GM candidates are being told that they need to be ready to work with Woodson. If that is the case be prepared to see the Hawks hire a very underwhelming GM candidate, since a GM candidate with a decent resume wouldn't agree to those terms.

Quote: Okay, I am a BK guy, so I am not happy he left, but I know others disagree. Not the point...A NEW GM IS LIKELY TO WANT TO GET A NEW COACH Whoever the new GM is (unless it is someone from inside the org), is undoubtedly going to want to get a new coach. I mean, even if the ASG gives Woody a new contract (and I can't see it being for anything more than like 2 years, maybe 3, if they even extend him), after half a season, our new GM is going to want to fire Woody. Undoubtedly, after watching Woody bumble through "leading" our team, he will want to see a change. Even someone like Billy King, who I do not want to be our GM no matter what, would want to get rid of Woody, I feel fairly certain. So, hopefully we get a new coach out of all this drama.... Now, if we promote a new GM from within after the ASG has extended Woody, we are in trouble. Billy Knight wanted to fire Woody. Of course any new decent GM would want to fire him and likely would not allow the ASG to resign him in the first place.

Billy Knight is not a good GM. There is evidence a-plenty on that, including: 1. The record of the teams under his watch (both Memphis and Atlanta); 2. His track record of hiring terrible coaches; 3. His poor drafting record; and 4. Inability to balance a roster.

Quote: Quote: Named team president on May 26, 2003, Billy King enters his 10th season with the Philadelphia 76ers, marking his fourth season as the president of the organization. King oversees all aspects of basketball operations, as well as all facets of business operations. He continues to serve as the 76ers point man for all trades, player procurement and player contract negotiations. King joined the 76ers on June 2, 1997, as vice president of basketball administration, a role in which he served as the point person for basketball operations. Less than a year later (May 19, 1998), he was promoted to general manager, and on April 5, 2000, he signed a new multi-year contract with the team. Prior to King’s arrival in Philadelphia, the Sixers posted sixconsecutive sub-.500 records, dating back to the 1991-92 season. During his nine-year tenure, the Sixers have made drastic improvements in the win-loss column. In his first season, the squad posted a nine-game improvement, sixthbest in the NBA. In 1998-99, Philadelphia earned its first NBA Playoff appearance since 1990-91 ending a six-year drought and advanced to the Eastern Conference Semifinals in 1998-99 and 1999-2000. The 76ers captured their first Atlantic Division Title on the heels of a 56-26 season in 2000-01 and went on to capture their first Eastern Conference Championship since 1983 to advance to the 2001 NBA Finals. The 2002- 03 season marked the 76ers fifth-straight trip to the playoffs, the longest since a 12-year span from 1978 to 1987, and the fourth-straight season with 40 or more wins. Before joining the 76ers, King served as an assistant coach for the Indiana Pacers under Larry Brown for four seasons. He joined the professional ranks after spending four seasons as an assistant at Illinois State University under former 76ers assistant bench coach Bob Bender. He also spent one year as a color analyst for ESPN's basketball coverage of the Ohio Valley Conference. During his collegiate career, King was an outstanding defensive player on Duke University's nationally ranked teams in the late 1980s and received the Henry Iba Corinthian National Defensive Player of the Year award following his senior season. King helped the Blue Devils to a 112-27 record, an average of 28 wins per season as Duke went to the Final Four twice, won the Atlantic Coast Conference regular-season championship and two ACC Tournament titles. In 1987, he helped the USA Basketball Men’s World University Games silver-medal squad to a 7-1 record, with its only loss coming against a Drazen Petrovic-led Yugoslavia team in the gold medal game. On May 26, 2005, King was one of nine individuals named to serve on the newly formed USA Basketball Men’s Senior National Team Program Advisory Panel. He is currently a member of USA Basketball’s 2005-08 board of directors. He previously was USA Basketball’s treasurer (2001-04) and was an athlete representative on the 1997-2000 executive committee. King also served on the USA Basketball Men’s Senior National Team Committees for the 1997-2000 and 2001-04 quadrenniums. As a player, he was a member of the 1987 USA World University Games that claimed the silver medal. King has been honored and recognized by numerous organizations for his dedication and commitment to success. In July 2000, he was honored as the Sports Executive of the Year at the Rainbow Sports Awards, reflecting not only his accomplishments in the sports industry, but also the grace, dignity, commitment and humanity that he exemplifies. In 2001, Street and Smith’s Business Journal named him one the industries "Forty under 40." He was also inducted into Duke University’s Hall of Honor on Dec. 2, 2001, in its charter group. In May 2003, Sports Illustrated named King, along with fellow 76ers Sonny Hill and Allen Iverson, one of the “101 Most Influential Minorities in Sports,” a list that included “men and women that are reshaping the sports industry and opening doors through which others will follow.” King also was honored by the African-American Ethnic Sports Hall of Fame as the NBA Executive of the Year in July 2003. Born Jan. 23, 1966, King was a political science major at Duke and follows national and local politics closely. He is also a movie buff and previously hosted his own movie review show for WBNQ-Radio in Bloomington, Ill., titled "Kings Clips." King resides in suburban Philadelphia with his wife, Melanie and their newborn daughter Natane Alexandra. I should have thought about this earlier and drawn the conclusion. The Billy King to Mike Woodson connection is definitely there, and there is even a Billy King to Bob Bender connection. It fits. This group wants to keep Mike Woodson as the head coach, and Billy King is a guy they can slot in as the GM that will likely be willing to work with Mike Woodson. Where is the connection? The fact that they were both once assistant coaches for Larry Brown? That is pretty tenuous.

I would can woody because I can't imagine any GM with half a brain would retain him. The Hawks need better management and better coaching.

Quote: Well, this franchise has been about miss opportunities for years now. I go back to 1999 when they had the opportunity to bring Doc Rivers back to the organization as the head coach and didn't do it. Whether it is draft picks or head coaches, the Hawks could write a book on missed opportunities. IMO, the Hawks have a golden opportunity to bring Mike Fratello back, and they are going to pass on it. Agreed. I would be very happy with Fratello, Avery Johnson or some other coach with a viable track record.

Quote: Things I can take from this: 1. Mike Woodson will be retained as head coach. 2. The GM will likely be an in house promotion, because they are more likely to work with Mike Woodson. 3. Josh and Josh will be resigned. 4. They are relying on Mike Bibby. Wow. If this is true then the owners really are mailing it in.

Quote: That could also be very dangerous as well since the players we currently have wouldn't be players that he brought in. that is exactly why they need to bring in someone from the outside - someone with some perspective.

Quote: That much is obvious at this point. That is terrible news. I guess mediocrity is the goal. I really hope the owners are smarter then this.

I hope Dominique does not become the GM because I don't like the idea of the franchise being forced to fire him if things don't work out. Give him the Bernie Mullins/figurehead roll.

The future of this franchise just got a lot brighter!!! Now for the love of god please let the Atlanta Spirit group be smart enough to hire a real gm who will hire a real coach.

This is easy. Paul is the best of the bunch by a wide margin. Paul is already an MVP candidate and there is no guarantee that either Roy or Horford reach that level in their career.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Why does the "he's only 22" argument seems to work for Smoove but alot of fols are ready to write Marvin off and he is only 21. I guess Smoove is the only one that has the capacity to get better. I really feel that a player should be evaluated at the end of their rookie contract. Only a fool would max a player on potential after they have been in the league for four years. With that being said I don't think that anyone on this team (other than Joe) deserves a max. Smoove shows up half the time so he should get half the max. I think that next season is make or break for Marvin but you would be a fool to ever think that Smoove will ever stop playing the way he is. The sad thing is that he really tries but it is like he can't help himself when he gets the ball in his hand. I think that we have a good enough team to be very competitive but you guys need to get off of that Smoove is untouchable but Marvin is thing. SMoove's stats are getting better but he isn't becoming a better player-think about that. Smith has a much greater impact (both good and bad) on games then Marvin does. They are the same age (same high school class and six months age difference doesn't matter), which is why they are generally considered peers. Since Marvin has accomplished less, he gets more criticism - that and the fact that he was the second pick in the draft. I feel otherwise, but it could be becuase he (Smith) was a steal in the draft and Marvin when in front of two possible HOF's. That might be the reason. So you feel Marvin has a greater impact on the outcome of Hawks' games?

Quote: Fitzsimmons makes the most sense to me because we need to make the right decisions with the Joshes. So having someone who has personal experience watching those guys for the last 2 years seems to like a great asset. And he worked with Fratello in Cleveland, so hopefully he would bring him on board as Head Coach. Lastly, as a current employee, he understands the dysfunctional nature of our ownership situation and would accept the job with fulll knowledge of the operating guidelines and available resources (or lack thereof). There should be greater mutual comfort between Fitz and the ASG. I tend to disagree on that. I think the Hawks need someone from outside the organization that has a different perspective on things. The Hawks need someone who can identify the flaws in the roster and make decisions without any ties to the existing players. Someone with experience would be a plus - particularly someone who knows how to make a good coaching hire.

Quote: Everyone likes to talk about Brandon Roy, but the guy the Hawks probably missed out on the most with that pick - the guy who would have probably had the biggest impact on this team - was Rajon Rondo. However, most of the fans on this site would have crapped in their pants had the Hawks taken him that high. Rondo is an up tempo point guard who can flat out play defense, and that's what the Hawks needed at the point guard position. Wasn't the pick used to select Rondo one of the ones that the Hawks sent to the Suns to get JJ, which they subsequently sent to the Celtics?

Quote: Why does the "he's only 22" argument seems to work for Smoove but alot of fols are ready to write Marvin off and he is only 21. I guess Smoove is the only one that has the capacity to get better. I really feel that a player should be evaluated at the end of their rookie contract. Only a fool would max a player on potential after they have been in the league for four years. With that being said I don't think that anyone on this team (other than Joe) deserves a max. Smoove shows up half the time so he should get half the max. I think that next season is make or break for Marvin but you would be a fool to ever think that Smoove will ever stop playing the way he is. The sad thing is that he really tries but it is like he can't help himself when he gets the ball in his hand. I think that we have a good enough team to be very competitive but you guys need to get off of that Smoove is untouchable but Marvin is thing. SMoove's stats are getting better but he isn't becoming a better player-think about that. Smith has a much greater impact (both good and bad) on games then Marvin does. They are the same age (same high school class and six months age difference doesn't matter), which is why they are generally considered peers. Since Marvin has accomplished less, he gets more criticism - that and the fact that he was the second pick in the draft.

Quote: Wow i cant believe i am saying this, but the spurs are done. Chris paul has dissected them like mince meat. Its just plain embarrasing, well i think that if the spurs get swept that they are going to clean house. Do you think we could grab someone from them. Its pretty obvious that they are probably done. I dont see thim recovering from this. They are not blowing anything up until Duncan retires. They have won a bunch of championships already and really don't have as much pressure to win as teams like the Suns, Celtics, Lakers, Mavs, etc. Duncan may be one of those throwback types that plays his entire career in one city. I hope he retires with the Spurs (but not for a few more seasons).

I stand by my comments.

Quote: Quote: Quote: It is pretty obvious at this point that the Hawks cannot bring both Billy Knight and Mike Woodson back. It can be one or the other, but their relationship is strained to the point that the Hawks cannot bring both back. There is a lot of sentiment from the media that the ASG will ultimately decide to keep Mike Woodson and replace Billy Knight. They are probably drawing the correct conclusion as well, since the ASG did not allow Billy to fire Mike during the season. That was probably the first sign that the ASG was no longer in support of Billy Knight. I think there is a right way to go through this process though. Personally, I do not think it is wise to hire a head coach before you hire a general manager. When you do that, you run the risk of putting the general manager in a position where he doesn't want the head coach you have decided on. The general manager should have input into the coaching hire, IMO. One of the most important aspects in the general manager and head coach relationship is that they have to be on the same page. I also believe it is better if they have the same philosophy. When you have a general manager that is going one direction and a head coach that is going the other, the situation rarely works out. The ASG has to be careful here though. If they decide that they want to keep Mike Woodson, then they are essentially limiting the pool of general manager candidates because the proper way to hire one is to get one that can work with Mike Woodson. If you give Mike an extension, then the best move is probably an in house promotion of Gary Fitzsimmons or maybe hiring one of the executives from the Detroit Pistons who knows Mike from those days. If it were me though, I would hire the general manager first and then get his input into the coaching hire. If that GM decides to go with Mike Woodson without the goading of ownership, so be it. Agreed. Makes no sense to hire a coach before a GM as no quality GM candidate will take the job. Ditto. But if you recall the ASG said they were going to be more involved in the franchise and my fear is they will hire a GM that they can tell what to do. One way or the other exert their will on the franchise. That would be a disaster. Indeed. That would be a total disaster.