Packfill

Quote: It is pretty obvious at this point that the Hawks cannot bring both Billy Knight and Mike Woodson back. It can be one or the other, but their relationship is strained to the point that the Hawks cannot bring both back. There is a lot of sentiment from the media that the ASG will ultimately decide to keep Mike Woodson and replace Billy Knight. They are probably drawing the correct conclusion as well, since the ASG did not allow Billy to fire Mike during the season. That was probably the first sign that the ASG was no longer in support of Billy Knight. I think there is a right way to go through this process though. Personally, I do not think it is wise to hire a head coach before you hire a general manager. When you do that, you run the risk of putting the general manager in a position where he doesn't want the head coach you have decided on. The general manager should have input into the coaching hire, IMO. One of the most important aspects in the general manager and head coach relationship is that they have to be on the same page. I also believe it is better if they have the same philosophy. When you have a general manager that is going one direction and a head coach that is going the other, the situation rarely works out. The ASG has to be careful here though. If they decide that they want to keep Mike Woodson, then they are essentially limiting the pool of general manager candidates because the proper way to hire one is to get one that can work with Mike Woodson. If you give Mike an extension, then the best move is probably an in house promotion of Gary Fitzsimmons or maybe hiring one of the executives from the Detroit Pistons who knows Mike from those days. If it were me though, I would hire the general manager first and then get his input into the coaching hire. If that GM decides to go with Mike Woodson without the goading of ownership, so be it. Agreed. Makes no sense to hire a coach before a GM as no quality GM candidate will take the job.

Quote: Both of you guys have taken a lot of heat for your performances in this series. Some if it is deserved and some of it isn't. I just want you both to know that I support you both 100% and I believe in both of you. I KNOW that you both are better players than you have demonstrated so far in this series. It is obvious from the contributions you both have given at different times throughout the season. Marvin, I know you are facing a future HOF player who is unguardable at times but you just focus on the things that YOU can do well and let the chips fall where they may. Don't let PP making tough shots take you out of what you can do. Stroke your J CONFIDENTLY and protect that rock when you are going to the hoop in traffic. Keep playing tough D and go to the glass on both ends like you are capable off. This is the playoffs baby! MAKE it happen. I don't care what the haters say, you are still MY MAIN MAN! Let's do this baby! Bibby, I know Rondo is quick and athletic and he is a tough matchup for you but the only one who can stop you from making an impact on this game is you. They are going to try to take away your J and force you to make plays in the lane. So be it. Go to the rack and draw the contact or give it up to one of the big guys for the finish. On D, all I ask is that you give it your all. Don't fall asleep and make the proper rotations. If they still make the play, so be it. But make them execute and EARN it. No easy buckets! You have shown that you can make big shots in big games and that you are never scared to take the big shot. Be prepared to make that big shot late. If it is there for you, I KNOW you will make it. Go Hawks! That sounds like a pep talk someone would give little leaguers, not grow men making millions of dollars as professional athletes.

Quote: I didn't say he was good. I said he was average. He should only be replaced by a good or great coach. No sense in making a change just to make one. Avery, Fratello, or D'antonio would all be huge upgrades to Woody. There are probably a couple other guys as well who would fit into that category. Remember the mistake Toronto made by rehiring Sam Mitchell - and Mitchell had a ton more success then Woody has. Mitchell is o.k. but there are better options out there for Toronto.

Quote: i agree that it's the matchup with rondo....yes bibby has missed some open shots but i dont think this is just how bibby is...bibby can score, he hasnt lost much since he averaged over 20 a game some years back...seems to me he is on a terrible bad streak right now too shooting. I would argue that the Bibby of today is not the same player that that he was in say 2004-05. He is a couple years removed from his best seasons and it shows.

I think JJ, Smoove and Horford are the core. Beyond that, everyone is easily tradeable and replaceable.

Quote: I would be totally fine with it. Both Woodson and Knight have met and surpassed the teams goals for the complete rebuild of the franchise. Go Hawks ! I disagree strongly. I still believe Woody and BK need to be shown the door so that the team can take it to the next level with a better coach/strategist and someone who knows how to complete and balance off the roster.

I think Horford brings emotion to the team but the real leaders are still JJ and Smoove.

I really think this franchise is going to live or die with Josh Smith. If Josh continues to improve and play like he has the past two games then the sky is the limit for the franchise. If he plays like he did the first two games then the team will be a perennial also-ran. I also think Childress is earning some money too and is definitely showing he can start and play a nice complementary role. If the Hawks don't pony up the cash for him then their bench will take an enormous hit. Let's hope the owners step up to the plate in the off-season.

Quote: The problem with this fa base, is that 80% of the people think that Josh Smith is untradeable or something. With Okafor being able to play center, you slide Horford to PF. A position in which he may already be better than Smoove at. Tell Charlotte to basically swap us Okafor for Smoove, and sign them to identical contracts. C - Okafor PF - Horford F - Marvin ( or trade him also for a more complete player ) G - JJ PG - Law ( or Bibby ) Then we have to hope that Horford is the stud at PF that we hoped, while Okafor still give us the shot blocking ability that Smoove brought to the table. Okafor's ability to guard the post will balance the squad out better. On Charlotte's end . . C - Nazr PF - Smoove F - Morrison ( if healthy ) G - J-Rich PG - Felton Charlotte has Gerald Wallace already so I doubt they would want Smoove.

Quote: What if the new coach comes in... Put the ball into Law's hand and find out that Law is a baller. Then he gets Horford up to snuff... And with no pressure.. he plays Marvin off the bench and develops Smoove as a true Sf. Would this vindicate BK?? I can almost bet that Fratello would play Bibs off the the bench and probably let Law be his starting PG. He would also play Horf at PF even if it meant making Zaza the starting Center! I think the one thing that Wood has had to contend with since his second season is the need to justify Marvin. Marvin starts rain, snow, or dead of night. I think Wood has finally realized that this is the best that you will get from Marvin. Overhyped Jump shooter. So he gives Marvin the Ivey treatment. Yeah, you start, but soon... I replace you with a player who can do more for the team. I think the Spirit also realize that Marvin can't be justified and it's better to play somebody else. A new coach will probably have the room to play Marvin off the bench! The problem is that someone other then BK needs to hire the next coach because BK, given his track record, cannot identify coaching talent if his life depended on it.

Quote: - Now that I really think about it, Bibby may have ran his mouth so that HE will be more motivated to play better. And i think he'll play much better tonight. - JJ and Horford will get a double-double - One of the Celtics Big 3 will have a horrible game, but one of them will score 25+ points - Rondo won't have near as good of a game tonight, thus, Cassell may play in crunch time in he 4th. - Salim, if he plays, will hit his first shot, and the next one. - Smoove will hit a 3. - One of the Celtics will commit a hard foul against Marvin going to the hole, almost sparking a fight. - The Hawks will have a lead in the 2nd quarter at some point. - We will cover the spread Wow. Could you have been more wrong?

I think getting rid of BK and Woody is a huge step in the right direction. Those guys have done more harm then good then good to the franchise. Assuming the Hawks retain most of the current squad (i.e., sign Smith and Chill and no major trades) I think they still need a tough veteran big man. A guy like Antonio McDyess or even Reggie Evans would be great to have off the bench. Anyone like that available in the off season?

If the goal in the NBA was to be a "young team" then the Hawks would be doing great. Since the goal is to actually win games then it is hard to constantly rely on that as an excuse to why the team is an also-ran. Dwight Howard isn't using age as an excuse. Neither are Al Horford or Chris Paul. Lebron James, Luol Deng, Carmelo Anthony and Deron Williams didn't use it as an excuse last year when they were all 22 or younger.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Probably the only way we would get him would be a package including either Smith or Horford. I am just undecided if that would be the right way to go. Trading Horford for Redd is CERTAINLY the WRONG way to go. Redd may be comparable to JJ as a scorer but he is no where close as a facilitator, defender or overall player. And given his salary, I'm pretty sure we'd have to send close to $12M in salaries to the Bucks. I'd rather have Mike Miller than Redd. The salaries aren't an issue. We could easily include Bibby in the deal. He isn't much of a playmaker or defender. The main reason JJ benefited from Bibby is because Bibby is a threat to score. We need more perimeter scoring and that is what Redd does. Teams won't be able to double JJ all game with Redd on the court. Having JJ and Redd at the 2/3 will make it easier to play Law at the point because his lack of outside shooting won't be as much of a problem. But it will almost certainly take Smith or Horford to make the deal. Redd, JJ and Horford or Smith isn't exactly Allen, Pierce and Garnett, but in the East it isn't bad. I still probably would not do it because if the Hawks trade away Horford or Smith their frontline because paper thin (as if it is not already).

Quote: I get so annoyed when our arena is filled with a large amount of other team fans. Kobes, Heat, Boston, AI...we really don't have a fan base right now. We do have a large base of basketball fans though. Team Dime will half the arena so no worries.

Quote: Really no surprise since they are the best team in the NBA. It just gets old when people say theyve been long time Boston fans in every sport when if they werent good they wouldnt be. Glad to hear someone speak up about it because they seemed quiet on TV. http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/h...ksnot_0423.html Being a New Yorker it pains me to admit this, but Boston sports fans are some of the most die hard, live and breath for your team, sports fans around. Bibby doesn't know what he is talking about.

Quote: As Magic said last night, other than that 1 play where he blocked it and then took it coast to coast Smith disappeared last night. He played 11 minutes in the 1st quarter and I think he had 2 points. He had a couple of blocks but we were still losing. I agree that he needs to be out there but it's not like he was having a great game and Woody forgot about him. Maybe you didn't notice, but the whole team disappeared last night with the exception of Horford and Childress. Marvin was invisible. Bibby would have been better off being invisible because it was painfull to watch him laying bricks and looking like the slowest least athletic player on the floor (despite playing opposite a 40 year old point guard). JJ never got it going either.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Who cares about what could of been. There is nothing we can do to change that now. Wrong. We still employ the GM who drafted him and 2 other consecutive 3rd worst of 3 potential prospects in each draft. WE can fire the bum. W Good point. Now that I'll cosign on. Yep, it's revisionist history once again to bring up MW over CP3. Just like it was revisionist's history when Nique was traded for a guy who wanted nothing to do with the team, Koncak was drafted ahead of (insert Hall of Famer here), Bob Weiss, Lon Kruger, and Alan Henderson/Chris Crawford's contract extensions. When you haven't had a winning record since dial-up internet was hot, folks look back on the reasons WHY. Spending a 2nd overall pick on a SF with numbers any guy worth his salt could get with his minutes and open looks (after spending THREE picks the previous year on swingmen and still having Diaw and Harrington on the roster no less) over a PG when the likes of Tyronn Lue and Royal Ivey are left running the show is asinine to the 5th degree. It gets even worse to take when the guy BK passed over all but single-handedly saved pro basketball in NO, is an MVP candidate, and made Jason Kidd look like an old man in his playoff debut. If this was any other team in the league, we'd be laughing our ASSES off at them and their fans for the next 12 years. If that one pick was done again, we wouldn't have had to see.... Shelden Williams taken at 5 (he would've fell to BK at 16) Craig Claxton being paid $25 million to show off his Armani suit collection on the bench MW get stuffed in the lane or get called for (insert infraction here) while driving to the rim Royal Ivey starting Tyronn Lue starting Anthony Johnson starting $14+ million of cap room being eaten up because we had to go out and get Mike Bibby while the Joshes reach free agency and most importantly, 26-56, 30-52, and 37-45. Until MW grows up (oh BTW, he's only a year younger than Paul so let's stop with the 'he's still young' story) and start playing up to his 'potential', or the Hawks win a title, folks will never, EVER forget about MW over CP3/Deron/Felton. GAME, SET, MATCH. Realistically, the reason why this issue remains a subject of converstion so frequently is because Billy Knight is still the GM of this team. Once he gets fired I think it will give alot of people some closure (I know it will help me move).

Quote: Probably a little of both. I don't think the desire to play defense is consistent. They have proven that it is there, but there are entirely too many lax moments in their defensive effort. However, I was definitely scratching my head at the defensive rotations last night. There was one play where Joe was on Paul Pierce. Rajon Rondo comes down to screen Joe, and Mike Bibby sagged down into the lane instead of coming out on Pierce. The result was an open shot, because Joe had to fight through the screen and there was no help. When I played basketball in high school, we were taught that when your man is setting a screen, you take the player coming off the screen. The problem with the Hawks is that when the other team sets a screen they either switch resulting in a bad mismatch (i.e., Bibby guarding Garnett in the post) or they always go under the screen, leaving the shooter wide open. The Hawks players never fight through a screen.

Quote: Quote: Hard to say. He did not have a good rookie year so it is hard to say what the team can expect from him. I would definitely give him a chance though since it at least has the potential to be better then the alternatives. Salim can be cut as far as I am concerned. He was injured most of his rookie season! Here is the thing, If you don't support sitting Bibby when he is raining bricks then you are no better than woodson who does the same stuff expecting different results! As I said, I would give Law the chance to show he can play (unless Bibby is stroking that night).

Quote: Here are a couple of articles that I found. Mike Fratello - 1994 This article is from 1994 when Mike was the head coach of the Cavaliers. A couple of things that I want to pull out of this article: Quote: "Mike is a very tough guy," says Kings guard Spud Webb, who played for Fratello in Atlanta. "Mike, doesn't like players who are soft. He likes players who can take a lick and hand one out." You wonder why Mike and the Memphis players didn't mesh? Pau Gasol = soft. Mike Miller = soft. Damon Stoudamire = soft. Quote: "Mike is the kind of coach who wants you to get up in a guy's face, pressure him, play all-out defense. Then when you have the ball, he wants you get out and run, force the issue," says Cavs guard John Battle, who also played under Fratello for five seasons in Atlanta. "But most of all, Mike just wants to win. And then he wants to hug you and high-five after it's over." That's what I remember from his Hawks days. I think Mike gets the reputation as a walk the ball up the court, half court oriented type of coach, and I don't believe that is the case. I believe his ideal style is what was just described. He's all about pressure. He wants you to play all out defense, and he wants you to force your will offensively on the team. I look at his team in Memphis, and I can see why he played the style he played there. I believe that Mike knew his team would never play defense well enough to be able to push the issue offensively. So, he was fired, and they brought in a two coaches who have allowed the team to push the issue offensively without focusing on defense. They are already looking to replace Iavaroni. Quote: "There are only two stages for a team to be in: Either you are in a rebuilding mode or you are trying to win a championship," Fratello says. "There really is nothing in between. Building toward contending for a championship should be every team's ultimate goal." Quote: "Mike is very direct with the players in regards to what he wants from them and what he expects from them. I think, as a player, that's all you can ask for. He's entitled to his own style, his methods, his ways of getting the job done. He's the coach. The players, they're getting paid to play the game." Needless to say, I believe it is the right time for this team to hire Mike Fratello. This team needs someone with a disciplined structure that focuses on defense. Now, Mike Woodson has that reputation, but his actual implementation of that style is what has gone wrong. The Hawks are at the point where the rebuilding is over, and it's time to get better and start doing the things championship teams do. From the tone of that article it seems that Bibby and Marvin won't be good fits with Fratello's style since Bibby has never played defense and Marvin is soft.

Quote: Quote: True. Problem is right now no one on the Hawks roster is seemingly capable of stepping up in his place. I definitely do not want to see Salim trying to direct the offense or bring the ball up with Rondo on him. Do you really think that Acie could be any worse than 2-10 from the field with 1 assist 2 T.O.'s in 34 minutes? Hard to say. He did not have a good rookie year so it is hard to say what the team can expect from him. I would definitely give him a chance though since it at least has the potential to be better then the alternatives. Salim can be cut as far as I am concerned.

Quote: I'm no apologist or hater, but I can safely say that he, along with damn near everyone else on the Hawks team sans Horford and Chill, are playing like utter crap right now. Agreed. Smith, JJ, Bibby, Marvin and Zaza all underperformed.

Quote: Quote: Bibby has proven to be exactly the player that the Sactown fans told us he would be - sensational one out of every 3 or 4 games and then a non-factor the remaining nights. Which is fine except it should be recognized early in the game when he is off. Put someone else in the game to at least play defense when he is off Woodson!!! True. Problem is right now no one on the Hawks roster is seemingly capable of stepping up in his place. I definitely do not want to see Salim trying to direct the offense or bring the ball up with Rondo on him.

Quote: Quote: Who cares about what could of been. There is nothing we can do to change that now. Wrong. We still employ the GM who drafted him and 2 other consecutive 3rd worst of 3 potential prospects in each draft. WE can fire the bum. W Good point.