Packfill

Quote: Not everybody wants Woody fired. I believe that he is a good coach but he has been severely limited by not having a complete roster. He was a rookie head coach who was asked to come into a losing/rebuilding situation and teach a bunch of young kids how to win at the highest level and not only that but he was given an experiment for a roster to work with in which the best PG he has had is a career backup. I want to see the team make the trade for Kidd, if possible. If not, then for Sergio or Jack or a PG like one of them. If we do that and don't improve this year then I would say it's time for Woody to go, otherwise I'm in the camp that thinks he has hadn't a fair chance and shouldn't be replaced. Let's be honest here, Woody is a terrible coach. Sure he has not had much to work with thanks to our terrible GM, but that doesn't override the fact that he stinks. I can guarantee that no GM other then BK would still have faith in Woody at this point. For all we know, Woody is holding the team back. This team is on pace to win about the same amount of games as last year despite several additions to the roster, continued maturation from some of the young players AND the absence of multiple injuries! Also, remember how much Memphis improved when they replaced BK's terrible head coaching hire with a competent coach?

Statistically Josh Smith is the teams best player, but in reality it is Joe Johnson by a wide margin. Smith is definitely second by a wide margin, then, in order, Marvin, Horford and Childress. After that, there is nothing of consequence on the roster at this point, with Law being the only one with a shot at emerging.

Quote: he was going to be getting some rest over the break. It seems like he isn't playing with a lot of passion out there but that just doesn't seem like something JJ would do. His problems lately have to be due to his injury and the enormous amount of minutes that he is playing. It is a nice honor for JJ but the truth of the matter is that he and the Hawks would be MUCH better off if he rested for a few days.

Quote: Why should we trade an up and coming forward who has the potential to be a game changer on both ends of the floor (and is definitely getting closer to being that guy) plus give up the best 6th man in the NBA AND our PG of the future? All that to get a guy the Knicks are dying to unload? No thank you! I wouldn't mind having Curry but I'm not giving up Marvin or Acie to get it done. They can have Chillz and Shelden plus expirings for salary issues but that's as far as I would go. That deal only makes sense if the Hawks are in position to draft Derrick Rose.

Quote: Moment 'cause I'm kinda pissed. Atlanta trade #1: Joe Johnson Zaza Pachulia '08 2nd round pick To Seattle for: Wally Johan Petro '08 1st round pick Atlanta trade #2: Salim Stoudamire Seattle's '08 1st round pick To Portland for: Sergio '08 1st round pick Atlanta nets: Sergio Petro Wally Portands 1st round pick. Hawks get the starting PG and Center (ligit 7 footer), a spot starting SG (Wally can still shoot) with an expiring contract. And a 1st round pick. Sergio/AJ/Law Chillz/Wally/Lue/Mario Marvin JSmith/Shelden Petro/Horford/Solomon Or move Marvin into JJ's trade spot. The second part of that proposal is awful considering how high Seattle's pick will likely be. I am not sure I do the first part either unless I am convinced Beasley or Rose is available and my scouts tell me they are legit franchise players. Actually, if BK is still the GM then I don't want any picks as I will just continue to be disappointed and we will continue to hear the old "the players need to develop" line.

I would trade the Hawks roster for that sophomore team: LaMarcus Aldridge Portland F-C 6-11 245 Texas Andrea Bargnani Toronto F 7-0 250 Italy Ronnie Brewer Utah G-F 6-7 233 Arkansas Jordan Farmar L.A. Lakers G 6-2 180 UCLA Rudy Gay Memphis G 6-9 220 Connecticut Daniel Gibson Cleveland G 6-2 194 Texas Paul Millsap Utah F 6-8 258 Louisiana Tech Rajon Rondo Boston G 6-1 171 Kentucky Brandon Roy Portland G 6-6 229 Washington

Quote: because I dont think both will happen. A coaching change or a trade? If we could get a coach in here, who would adjust and get the team into more of a running mode I think we could get on a little run toward the playoffs. Or hell if Woodson would just coach like he did preseason and early this season. That was all you heard in the offseason, run, get out and up the tempo-and they have just abandoned that mentality all together, and it of course comes from the coach. Or we could get a player to help solidify the roster, maybe a solid shooter, Battier or Capono type of player, or even a big time defensive presence in the middle I think would go a long way to helping this team out. Really make teams think twice about constantly getting to the basket, cause we know Smith cant do it all the time by himself. My order of preference: 1. New owners - Solves problems 2 &3. 2. New GM - Solves pronlem 3. 3. New coach. 4. New point guard. 5. Real big man with low post offensive game and defensive ability. 6. Bench wing players that can shoot the ball.

Hopefully.

Quote: Or let's at least keep it in a single thread? It could be titled: "Shoulda Taken Chris Paul...and 10 More Things My Blind Grandma Coulda Pointed Out" When BK is sent packing we will have closure on the bad drafting. Until then . . .

Quote: Quote: Quote: AJ's not a PG you can count on? He has over a 4 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. If there's one thing that AJ IS, it's a PG that you can count on. But I also consider 7 points, 4 assists, and 0-1 TOs a solid game, especially when he shares ball handling duties with Joe and only plays 28 mpg. I also disagree with whoever said AJ is nothing more than a backup. I think he's a legit starting NBA PG but has been in the wrong place at the wrong time for most of his career. And aside from his 4 to 1 ratio, he's also shooting 46% from 3, 80% from the line, has a nice runner when he drives, and has quick hands on defense. You really need to watch some of the better point guards in the league to get a perspective on what they do for their teams. The Hawks have been so point guard deficient for so long that most Hawks fans have no idea what good point guard play is. I don't think anybody is saying that AJ is Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, or Kirk Hinrich. However, for the price of a 2nd round pick... AJ is very solid. He rarely turns the ball over and he makes good decisions. You say he's not starter quality... Hell, if you take the median of the league and look at their PGs, I think AJ is better than a lot of them. The Hawks will be mediocre at best with a guy like AJ starting at the point.

Quote: In NJ Lawrence Frank took on the Nets after Byron Scott and he was instantly credited with being a good coach. Byron Scott 2000/01-2003/04 Lawrence Frank 2003/04-Present Eddie Jordan was an assistant for Scott who left to become head coach of the Wizards.

Quote: AJ's not a PG you can count on? He has over a 4 to 1 assist to turnover ratio. If there's one thing that AJ IS, it's a PG that you can count on. But I also consider 7 points, 4 assists, and 0-1 TOs a solid game, especially when he shares ball handling duties with Joe and only plays 28 mpg. I also disagree with whoever said AJ is nothing more than a backup. I think he's a legit starting NBA PG but has been in the wrong place at the wrong time for most of his career. And aside from his 4 to 1 ratio, he's also shooting 46% from 3, 80% from the line, has a nice runner when he drives, and has quick hands on defense. You really need to watch some of the better point guards in the league to get a perspective on what they do for their teams. The Hawks have been so point guard deficient for so long that most Hawks fans have no idea what good point guard play is.

I see alot of people posting that the team needs a shooter off the bench. My question is who sits so this shooter can play? The shooter is most likely a shooting guard or small forward (at least those are the typical positions manned by outside shooters), positions already manned by JJ and Marvin. JJ plays 40 minutes a night, Marvin 36. That leaves 20 minutes in reserve at those two positions, 20 minutes that are 99% manned by Childress already. Does Childress not play? Getting a Steve Nash would obviously solve the problem but good shooting point guards who can also run an offense and create scoring opportunities for the rest of the team are not easy to come by. Lue is a shooter but we know his deficiencies detract from his affectiveness as a shooter. Bringing in another "Lue" doesn't seem like the right answer unless that individual is a much more talented defender and passer. Such an individual would likely cost quite a bit in trade.

Quote: Eddie Jordan was credited with the success of those Nets teams, and rightfully so. Byron took what he learned from Eddy to NO - and it sure has helped Byron that once again he has the best PG in the league on his team. Sometimes it is better to be lucky then good. Unfortunately for the Hawks, Woody is neither lucky nor good. Same for BK.

Quote: Everybody likes AJ if he has a good game. But AJ has far too many 7 point - 4 assist games as well. He just isn't a floor leader that you can count on every game. He doesn't have the skill to do that. When you watch the good PGs in this league, you can see how they can either break people down and feed somebody for an easy lay-up . . or race up the floor and lay the ball in themselves . . or knock down the open shot when need be . . or be able to effectively run a pick and roll with somebody . . be sneaky and get timely steals. Kidd dominates games at times. Even a Jamal Tinsley dominates the games at times. I was kind of shocked to see AJ have 6 assists in the 1st qtr and 11 for the game. Maybe it's because most of AJ's assists come from people hitting a jumpshot, rather than people making lay-ups and dunks. The 2 lobs to Marvin and the one to Smoove on the fast break were nice though. When Acie had those 7 assists in the Charlotte game, he got people very easy looks close to the basket. Or he would pentrate to draw people to him, then kick the ball out to a wide open shooter. That's being a playmaker. Guys like AJ and Watson are game managers. What we need at PG, is a playmaker. In the situation we were in at Portland with 33 seconds left, a guy like a Kidd, or even an Acie, has little problem beating Roy or any of those PGs off the dribble. If they don't help, our PG gets to the rim for a possible lay-up. If they do help, a Kidd or Acie will find the open man. Put AJ in that same situation, and he probably would have to settle for a tough jumpshot because he wouldn't be able to blow past his man. I agree completely. The Hawks desperately need a playmaker at the point guard position. I really think they should throw Law into the deep end and see if he can swim. He is a four year college guy so he should be much better equiped to handle a babtism by fire then a freshman. If the Hawks lose more games this season in the process who cares. What happens next year is much more important.

Quote: If we make the playoffs I will be very happy. I definitely think this team will get a lot better and just making the playoffs will give this team a lot of confidence. Bottom line, I'm sick of having the longest playoff drought in the NBA. The only downside is Woodson/BK may get some undue praise. Given the Atlanta Spirit's track record, that is potentially a big downside. I guess I rather lose the battle and win the war, so to speak.

Quote: Clevland contended last year despite being not that great. You have to get good to get great. Once we're a playoff team (even in the east) we can hopefully spend the money to take us to the next level. The Pistons were good but needed Sheed to get over the hump. Well, Cleveland does have one of the top 5 players in the game, and his ability to rev things up in the playoffs last year is not something any of the current Hawks players have demonstrated they can do.

Quote: Quote: If Roy were here, he would either start beside JJ in the backcourt or Marvin would be coming off the bench with JJ at SF. End of story. Worse case scenario, if Roy were here, trading Chillz or Marv for a PG or a big would be a no-brainer. Even if you had to trade JJ or Roy himself to get that quality PG or big, we would be MUCH better off. Ask yourself... Since BK has been GM...How many times has BK even been tempted to trade a player he drafted? He traded Diaw.

Quote: They'll probably make it, but what good does it do. They still suck really bad.They're just very lucky. Why are they lucky? Because the rest of the East is so bad?

Quote: Quote: http://www.realgm.com/src_twoplusthefoul/1...dseason_awards/ Chris Paul just won real GM's mid-season MVP award. Ouch. W A few exceptions aside we have a problem with Mike Woodson screwing us. You're the one still stuck in the past. This team has the horses to win games, they just lack a jockey. Alot has changed since you've been gone. I think you'll find far less takers for your sensationalism than before. We shall see though. Good luck with that shtick. I actually have a problem with BK screwing us. There are obvious moves that BK needs to make, getting rid of Woody being near the top of the list, yet he does nothing. Why should BK not be held accountable for his many mistakes?

I guarantee the Hawks make the playoffs this year. Seriously. How can they not? The East has two excellent teams, four good teams and a bunch of trash. The question then, is this satisfying to anyone? It would be for me but for my feeling that this team will, absent serious reconstruction, is going to top out as a 3 or 4 seed rather (kind of like the Smitty, Mookie, Deke team) then being a true championship contender, which I thought was the point of striping the team to nothing 4 years ago.

Quote: if u are gonna use the argument that we need to trade from our redundancy to help the team, then you should be either trading smoove or horford smoove is not a sf, while marvin is a natural sf so to trade marvin for a center doesn't help the redundancy so u need to trade smoove or horford; and do u really wanna trade smoove for gasol? smoove has the potential with maturity to be a top 5 player; gasol is a better al harrington: ole defense and good post offense if u wanna trade marvin, then fine...make a trade for him, but don't use the argument that we need to put players in their natural positions, because smoove is not a natural sf also, i see no need to upgrade starting pf/c...smoove/horford tandem scores over 25ppg and rebounds close to 20rpg...they hold opponent centers to lowest ppg of any other starting center we are fine at 2/3/4/5 starting and 2/3/4 backup what we NEED is a good consistent backup center, as shelden/zaza/solo aren't there yet and we need another pg to team up with law long-term (aj ain't getting younger) for the short term, i'd play smoove 10mpg at center when horford is on the bench if u aren't gonna give the 10mpg consistently to either shelden or zaza or solo to allow them to grow and be consistent Who is this "4" back-up you speak of? And by giving Smoove 10 minutes per game at center is your plan to play him all 48 minutes each game? He already plays 36 minutes per game.

Quote: Quote: Quote: All of these trade proposals are pointless if he is still going to be here. We know that he can't coach. I say we ride out the season with the same players that we have now and get a new coach. Why is firing a coach so damn hard?? You call him into the office and 86 him. We can talk an old timer into coaching the team for the rest of the season. Hell we probably would still make the playoffs. BK has to go before Woody because BK will just hire another horrible coach once Woody is gone. That is his track record. He has hired two of the worst coaches in NBA history. who is the other one?he hasn't been here long enough to hire two coaches.he may have had two coaches but I don't think he hired both,he could have inherited the first one.I could be wrong though. He hired Sidney Lowe while GM of Memphis. I am not sure what this guy has done other then dupe Babcock into trading for SAR.

Quote: All of these trade proposals are pointless if he is still going to be here. We know that he can't coach. I say we ride out the season with the same players that we have now and get a new coach. Why is firing a coach so damn hard?? You call him into the office and 86 him. We can talk an old timer into coaching the team for the rest of the season. Hell we probably would still make the playoffs. BK has to go before Woody because BK will just hire another horrible coach once Woody is gone. That is his track record. He has hired two of the worst coaches in NBA history.

Quote: With Atlanta's losing record for January and all my gloom and doom, I have to consider some things. Perhaps I can find a ray of cheer somewhere. Poor Miami. They are now where we, the Atlanta Hawks, were for so long. If we feel bad, think how their poor fans must feel. Look at their season: Record: 8-32 Lost the last 14 games. 25 games out of first place. To end up 50-32, they must win all the rest of their games. Compared to their delima, ours doesn't now look nearly as bad. Miami still must win 5 to match our 13 wins of a few years ago. Hawks, on the other hand: Record: 17-21 Lost the last 4 games 15 games out of first place (7th in the east) To end up with a .500 record, Hawks must go 29-25. 54 games to win at least 29. We have the talent. We are, for the most part, injury free. (Forget Speedy) Can we do it? If we can get our December team back, yes. That was our winning team. LET'S GO HAWKS!! Wake up! Make it happen! Big difference though is that Miami won a CHAMPIONSHIP! The Hawks are rebuilding from a rebuilding project. Yeah, I feel real bad for those Miami fans.