Packfill

Quote: A quick poll to see how people feel about JJ's effort on the season. It has seemed to me that since the first open scrimmage and preseason games, JJ has looked disinterested for the most part. He is shooting the lowest percentage of his career, and his lowest 3point % since 03. His effort on D has been about 50% of what it was for the first 2 years, going from very good to very average in my eyes. Of course he has still had spurts on both ends of the floor where the competitor in him comes out, he wants every shot, he starts crossing everyone over and lighting them up, and can shut down some of the best scorers in the league. But those spurts have been pretty few and far between. For the most part he's content to just hand the ball off to someone else and take shots when they're available, but not force to create. He's gone from a guy who looked like an all-star carrying a team on his back to a guy who just looks content to be one of the guys. Anyway you slice it, he doesn't look half as motivated, determined and hungry as he has for the past 2 years. I'm not sure what the cause is. My best guesses would be: -Pissed off at BK / AS for promising him more support and not delivering -Drained from the pressure of having to carry the franchise -Sick of Woody and his crap system Anyhow, this came up in a Woody discussion in which I was saying that the coach is responsible for motivating his players and Joe is clearly less motivated than he was for the past 2 years. So I guess the question is, do you agree, what's the cause, and what's the solution? I don't think a lack of effort is JJs problem. I just think it is possible JJ had a career year last year and that we maybe shouldn't expect that level of play from him in the future. Perhaps his current play is more in line with what we should expect long-term.

Quote: Quote: Why shouldn't this team be 22-17? Guys BK deemed unworthy of drafting are LEADING their respective teams to better records than that. And let us not forget BK's wonderful record with coach hires (i.e, two of the worst in NBA history). The reason why this team is barely a .50% team now and won't contend in the future is because of bad drafting and bad coaching. Three seasons ago the teams biggest holes were center and point guard and they are still the teams biggest holes. Why shouldn't Hawks fans be upset about the teams state of affairs? I'm not saying the fans shouldn't be upset. But it's a known fact that the vast majority of the fan base picked this team to be somewhere at, or below .500. So to be 17 - 21 . . 18 - 21, should be expected by most of you. It's the fact that we played so well in December, and so bad this month, that has people bugged about this team. But the Hawks are who we thought they were. What the Hawks have to do, is hold serve at home, and win road games against bad teams. They have to keep themselves as close to the .500 mark as possible going into an easier schedule in March and April. That's when Golden St. mde their run last year. This team plays much, much better at Philips than they do on the road. So when you get games vs a Seattle on the road, or catch an injured team, you need to wn those games. Last night was definitely a blown opportunity with Melo out the lineup. We probably need to win 25 - 28 home games, to compensate for our road woes. Not an impossibe feat, seeing that we've played a lot of the East and West powers @ home already. But if anyone expected this team to be 22 - 17 right now, that projects out to around 46 or 47 wins at the end of the year. The most I said we can win is 45. The reason why expectations are so low is because of poor drafting and poor coaching over the past 4+ years. If BK didn't pass on MVP candidate Chris Paul the Hawks would likely be one of the best teams in the NBA right now. Same thing if BK didn't misplace his brain and drafted Roy instead of Sheldon. These are the reasons the team is struggling to win 35+ games instead of 50+. The team management is f'ed from the top (Atlanta Spirit) on down (BK and Woody) and that has resulted in a poor product on the floor. What have any of these guys done that says I should trust them? Atlanta Spirit has demonstrated poor decision-making time and again: (i) agreeing to go into business with Belkin; (ii) retaining BK; and (iii) signing that horribly drafted agreement with Belkin regarding the buyout. Similarly, BK has made bad decisions time and time again: (i) hiring Woody (and hiring that flop in Memphis); (ii) Childress over Deng/Igoudala; (iii) Marvin over Paul/Williams; and (iv) Sheldon over anyone else. Should we even address Woody's inability to install a credible offensive system, poor substitution patterns and inability to make in game adjustments? For that I am mad that this team has squandered the many lottery opportunities it had. This current team is likely to suffer a fate similar to the Smitty/Deke/Mookie teams - good enough to get bounced in the first round of the playoffs but not bad enough to get a draft pick that is high enough to fill the voids on the roster.

Quote: Quote: I just don't see why Memphis would want Marvin Williams when they already have a better, younger small forward in Rudy Gay. In their system, Marvin could play PF. Ivanroni is as uptempo as they come. Their team would be craptastic with Marvin at the 4. This is why they want Smoove.

Quote: Every time we lose a game you whine and moan about we need to trade JJ, we need to trade marvin or smoove. We lost last night because he just couldn't overcome our bad first quarter and was in part due to turnovers. Our guys except for JJ stepped it up in the second half, but yet we don't hear about that. Marvin-Smoove-Horford played pretty good last night. We lost last night because: 1. We could not execute when we needed to down the stretch. When we get into situations where Smoove is getting alot of touches you can expect alot of turnovers. 2. We only shot 39 percent from the field. (JJ was horrible) 3. AI got an ass of calls. 4. They hit their free throws (34 points from the line) Our problem is COACHING and we need to get a veteran pg if they are not going to let Acie get major minutes. I doubt that he will ever have as many turnovers as Smoove so what is the harm of letting him play so we can see what he really can do. Woody is doign the same thing to him that he has did to Smoove and CHillz and that's pulling them when they make mistakes. I am pretty sure everyone acknowledges that the teams biggest on-the-court problems are bad coaching and the absence of a good point guard. There are definitely other problems though, including the absence of a low post offensive threat and lack of size. Perhaps the real problems though are crap management (i.e., BK and his draft blunders) and crap owners (i.e., worst ownership situation in professional sports).

I just don't see why Memphis would want Marvin Williams when they already have a better, younger small forward in Rudy Gay.

Quote: The vote states most agree with you, although there are several others that stated lack of 1st string PG, Team leadership on the floor and lack of a true center as the reason for bad play. The one that is not been chosen is LACK OF TALENT. That indicates to me that the Hawks have the talent to be a lot better than they are. Even with what I am calling the Shelden Williams disaster, Hawks still have some good pieces with talent. How Long does management give Woodson???? the second half of the season is quickly approaching. The Hawks have a good amount of talent overall, just not in the right places.

Quote: Quote: From ESPN: Time to pass out the midseason grades for the Eastern Conference. Team are listed here in order of conference standing: Atlanta Hawks (Grade: C) -- It's funny how some people think the Hawks have arrived. Yes, they can be great on given nights and have played their best basketball against the NBA's elite teams. But this team has far too much talent to be so inconsistent. I don't want to hear about their youth … they can compete NOW in the East, but they haven't figured out how to focus and mature to the point where they can be taken seriously. I don't disagree with that assessment. Of course they're a "C-team". Ish, in years past, we've been a "F . . a D+ . . or at very best, a C- team". What did the fan base expect? For the Hawks to be a B+ team right now? But like coach hs pointed out, it's so funny to see how some of the fan base is expecting the Hawks to be 22 - 17 or something. Most of the board fully expected that the Hawks would win 36 - 42 games, and maybe just slide into the playoffs. Now, that doesn't seem to be good enough. People are talking about being "championship caliber?" Please. Only a blockbuster trade, or Smoove or Marvin raidly developing into star players, with JJ playing at a superstar level every night, is going to get us to championship level. An Anthony Parker, Sam Dalembert, Cuttino Mobley, or any other trade for a role player, only gets us to playoff level. even trading for Gasl doesn't get us to championship level. My main beef with this team, is how the majority of this bench can't be trusted anymore. We may have to move some of those guys, to bring in a more consistent player, just to assure that we will make the playoffs. Even without the trade, we still have enough talent to be .500 . . as long as the starters play decent on a nightly basis. (( talking like Dennis Green )) "The Hawks are who we thought they were." Why shouldn't this team be 22-17? Guys BK deemed unworthy of drafting are LEADING their respective teams to better records than that. And let us not forget BK's wonderful record with coach hires (i.e, two of the worst in NBA history). The reason why this team is barely a .50% team now and won't contend in the future is because of bad drafting and bad coaching. Three seasons ago the teams biggest holes were center and point guard and they are still the teams biggest holes. Why shouldn't Hawks fans be upset about the teams state of affairs?

Quote: Quote: Quote: Its funny how we lose a game on a last second shot in OT and every one acts like the sky is falling. Its no where near as bad as it seems people. We have lost 2, tightly contested games in OT in the last 10 days to 2 quality playoff teams. Its not like we are getting blown out. We compete and are in every game. A little tweak is all that we need. Incorrect. This team needs major help if it wants to compete for a championship - which was the whole point of completely blowing-up the Terry/SAR team and starting from scratch. This is exactly what I am talking about. (if this this not comical sarcasm) No one who is sane thought this team would be any where near championship level this year or even next year. We are all expecting between 36 and 42 wins. We are on target for that. No one expcted a team to give away one of the 6 or 7 legit centers in the NBA for a box of twinkies either. I don't think we were eexpecing a 21 year old Marvin, 22 year old Smith, and 21 year old Horford to win us a ring this year with a rookie PG and AJ...LOL You have to learn to crawl before you start saying Hawks and Championship in the same sentence. You know how many times Jordan got beat by the Pistons and Celtics in the playoffs before his time finally came to talk championships ?. Even Jordan was 27 or 28 before he got his first ring....Older then JJ is now. Give me break and take a swallow of reality. Go back and look at post from before the season. 90% of us predicted 36 to 42 wins b/c we live in REALITY. We saw in December what the squad is capable of.. going 9/4. We just come off off 2 tough OT losses to playoff teams and the sky is falling ? I don't by it. The Hawks will get will vs. the Nuggs on Wed and gt back on track. YOU ARE COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT!!!!!!!!! The Hawks will likely backdoor into the playoffs this year because the east is terrible. That does not mean anything. I personally could care less about being a playoff also ran. This team was, according to BK, constructed to win a championship. That is what he said his goal was when he started this whole thing. I understand that won't happen this year, only a dunce wouldn't. The problem is the current collection of players, even given two more years of experience, isn't going to sniff a championship because of the obvious flaws in the teams construction (i.e., no depth, small frontline, poor point guard play, absence of post offense and lack of perimeter shooting).

Quote: Its funny how we lose a game on a last second shot in OT and every one acts like the sky is falling. Its no where near as bad as it seems people. We have lost 2, tightly contested games in OT in the last 10 days to 2 quality playoff teams. Its not like we are getting blown out. We compete and are in every game. A little tweak is all that we need. Incorrect. This team needs major help if it wants to compete for a championship - which was the whole point of completely blowing-up the Terry/SAR team and starting from scratch.

Quote: Quote: - Shelden is a complet non-factor You know it is bad when the Hawks lose to a team led by the guy we passed on for Shelden (Brandon Roy) and no one even bothers to make a post about it. The Marvin draft was bad, but last years off-season was one of the biggest stinkers a GM not named I. Thomas has put together in a long time. Terrible does not begin to describe that off-season. Look at how little BK did with a high lottery pick, a early second round pick and lots of cash: Sheldon Williams Salim Stoudamire Speedy Claxton Lorenzen Wright You can't possible get less production then that!

Quote: Excellent chat, thanks for posting GSU! It seems like Holly is much higher on the Hawks than he used to be and although right now Sergio is definitely better than Law I don't think that will be the case in a year or two. That said, if we could steal him from the Blazers for Childress I would do it in a heartbeat. I think it is inconclusive who will be better in the long run. Sergio is younger.

Hollinger definitely threw some daggers at the Hawks. All deserved though.

I know what a gypsy is.

Quote: Zaza is a gipsy. What is a "gipsy"?

Quote: That's the best offer that I would make at this point as well. None of the core group of players (JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Horford, or Acie) would be available in trade at this point with anyone because they have all shown that they deserve to be kept together. I HATE trading Childress but I would do it in order to get Gasol and maybe to get Daly. What have these guys done that shows they deserve to be kept together?

Quote: It could also be that Bernie got another offer and sees the lack of a real future with this organization. Maybe he wanted more money. Who knows. These guys are always putting lipstick on the pig when it comes to information released to the public. Or, the Atlanta Spirit are so short on funds they are getting rid of overhead.

If the team had a decent point guard and some semblance of an offense - particularly one with movement - then the Hawks might be able to utilize the shooters they do have. Until those two things happen the Hawks might as well role Lue out and let him score his 15 while giving up 25.

The "goal" according to BK was to build this team the "right" way so that it would be a championship contender. The question now is whether BK has assembled the pieces that could yield a championship. Since BK has spent most of his lottery picks passing on players who are now their respective franchises best player, he has an uphill battle.

The sad thing is he is the best reserve big man the team has. So much for team depth.

On the one hand, the fact that the owners are going to become more intimately involved in the operation of the team could be a good thing - i.e., they realize the FO and coaching is a mess. On the other hand, these are the same dummies that signed a horrendous agreement with Belkin and have generally shown very poor judgement in all things related to basketball - i.e., agreeing to partner with Belkin, retaining BK and allowing BK and Woody to continue in their current positions for so long. Should be interesting to see how this turns out.

If Elton Brand is available why not just sign him? Maybe you loose Smoove in the process which sucks, but this team is not going to be a contender with its current core so might as well go for broke. That or trade away Marvin or Horford so you can resign Smoove.

The concern with JJ is that maybe last year was just a career year and that he will not reach that level of play on a consistent basis again.

Quote: Their owner being very committed and having some of the deepest pockets in the league really helps as well. Do you think we could have ever done that Steve Francis buyout thing? Their GM is in a great situation. Thats definitely not the main reason, but it does play a role. Didn't that deal ultimately save them money long term by unloading Randolph's contract?

Coaching is definitely a huge part of it but they also have pieces that fit very well together - i.e., a go to perimeter scorer in Roy, a low post scorer in Aldridge and a bunch of complimentary shooters, slashers and role players. If Oden can come back and just be a top notch defender and rebounder they will be tough to beat in years to come.

People keep saying the Hawks need a shooter, and they do, but the question is where is this "shooter" supposed to play? JJ is the shooting guard and best player who gets 40 minutes a night, Marvin and Chill split the minutes at the 3, so no room there for a shooter either. Maybe a point guard who can shoot but that person also has to be an effective point guard or the offensive will stagnate anyway. So, let's hope Law matures . . .