Packfill

Quote: Marvin has a long way to go defensively to be in the same frame as Prince, but he is already just about there offensively. Tayshaun is a better passer at this point and has a little more range but Marvin is very close offensively overall. I think Marvin showed some promise in the pre-season - which is why I made the reference in the first place - but I am going to need to see him play effectively when the games mean something before I am ready to say he is Prince's equal in anything. Plus, the real thing the Hawks need from their small forward is someone like Prince who can do the little things that help a team win.

. . . I couldn't help but think that if Marvin Williams can become a Teyshaun Prince type player for the Hawks then maybe the team has a real shot at the playoffs. Of course, the team as a whole is going to have to learn how to play defense as well, but, baby steps.

Interesting. His highest recorded assist total on the road was 7 (twice), while he had games of 15, 14, 9 and 8 at home.

If Jefferson continues to develop then it would be hard to argue he is overpaid. Obviously there is risk involved but there is a certain amount of rewards as well. JJ was overpaid when the Hawks got him but he grew into the role of being a max player.

Very interesting.

Quote: 5 yrs., $65M with incentives to push it to $70M according to the Wolves' RealGM board. That's probably right around his market value. And Smith's. Ouch. Like jerrywest indicated, Jefferson is a legit big man so that ways in his favor but Smoove's numbers compare very favorably to Jefferson's so it will obviously cause Smoove's agent to ask for at least the same amount of money.

Whatever his extension looks like should frame the parameters for what Smoove gets.

Quote: There are certain really good players that I would never want on my team. Tony Parker is one of them. I never would want to be in a position where I had to cheer for him. JJ Reddick is another. Mike Dunleavy too. The list goes on and on. If you're a douche, I want no part. What has Tony Parker done that is so objectionable?

Quote: Quote: Obviously BK considered Speedy's and Chill's minor injury histories as insignificant issues, and it is obvious from the limited time the two have missed that those problems have not detered their ability to contribute to the Hawks success the past few years. Thank goodness BK didn't saddle the franchise with an injury plagued player like Chris Paul! ...laughter. Better sit down and take it easy. W Why laugh? BK built this team from something to what it is today! Not every GM could totally strip a team down to being historically bad and then build it using high lottery picks accumulated over a number of season into a team dangerously close to breaking the 30 win mark. That takes a certain type of talent. Not to mention BK's historic track record with finding young up-and-coming head coaching talent.

Quote: Quote: Hasn't BK ruled out certain draft prospects in the past because of injury concerns? BK signed Speedy (gulp) and drafted Childress who had a relatively recent foot fracture history...that talk was just CYOA. W Obviously BK considered Speedy's and Chill's minor injury histories as insignificant issues, and it is obvious from the limited time the two have missed that those problems have not detered their ability to contribute to the Hawks success the past few years. Thank goodness BK didn't saddle the franchise with an injury plagued player like Chris Paul!

Hasn't BK ruled out certain draft prospects in the past because of injury concerns? Obviously BK wasn't concerned with Law's injury history or he wouldn't have drafted him.

Quote: He's playing pretty far from the basket. Taking a lot of jump shots...making them though. He'll be a great guy to team with Oden because he (Aldridge) looks like he can play the high post to Oden's low post. That is a good point. as a basketball fan, it is disappointing that someone as talented as Oden is facing such a long road to recovery before his career even begins. Portland has some very nice young pieces that on paper fit well together (Oden = low post scorer, defender, rebounder; Aldridge = high post scorer; Roy = All arounder; Webster = shooter; and a couple of decent point guards). Unfortunately, they have a steep learning curve and significant injury concerns to over come.

Quote: Quote: North, I couldn't agree with you less. Arenas is one of the few scoring PG's that actually makes their team better. Washington has thoroughly overachieved since he got there. Arenas' 2006 - 07 stats in wins vs losses: IN WINS ( 39 wins ) 32.4 ppg 6.6 assists 4.8 rebs 1.9 stls 48.5% FG 42.7% 3FG 85.5% FT Those are ELITE SUPERSTAR type numbers IN LOSSES ( 35 losses ) 24.1 ppg 5.3 assists 4.3 rebs 1.8 stls 33.9% FG 26.7% 3FG 83.2% FT Those are I DON'T KNOW WHEN TO STOP SHOOTING type numbers. You'd be hard pressed to find one other superstar or even star player in this league, that has that dramatic of a falloff in shooting, than Arenas. His teammates don't have that type of dramatic dropoff in shooting when they lose, so the blame has to go on Arenas when that team loses . . which is about 1/2 the time. The only other guy that even remotely comes close to Arenas as far as playing good or bad in wins and losses, is our very own Joe Johnson. But even his numbers don't come close to the falloff that Arenas does. And his numbers only really fall off in the 3-point range category and in assists. He goes from an incredible 52% shoter overall from the field and a 49% shooter from 3-point range in wins . . to a 44% FG shooter and a 31% 3FG shooter in losses. He also dips from 5.5 assists, to a little over 3 assists a game. If the Hawks were offered a deal to trade JJ for Arenas, straight up, there's no way in hell I'm making that deal. None. If the same deal came up for Kobe for JJ, I'm packing JJ's bags as we speak. I am pretty sure that in a large number of the Wizard's losses last year at least one of Jamison and Butler were out so obviously one less person for the opposition to guard. I think 32 out of 32 NBA GMs trade JJ for Arenas no questions asked.

Bobcats appear to be playing the bench liberally. Who are these people they have on the court?

Quote: My bet is that it's somewhere in between. Yes, he's a worker, but maybe not to the degree that some posters make him out to be. An article saying so and so is doing this and that is still just a reporter passing along what someone tells him. It's never a comprehensive account of all the player is/isn't doing, and it isn't always accurate. On another note my personal feeling is that his "bad attitude" is greatly over exagerated - or at least if he does have a bad attitude, I don't see how it's affecting him or the team in a negative way. It's very possible that behind the scenes Josh is still more of a kid than a professional, but I'm not worried about it until some red flags arise. right now all I see is a young guy getting better and better with time. I agree on the bad attitude thing. I think much of the blame goes to Woody based on the fact that someone like Shelden has had problems with him. Shelden was accustomed to first rate coaching at Duke and my guess is he has butted heads with Woody because he knows Woody doesn't have the goods. Pure speculation on my part, but Woody's track record speaks for itself. I guess we will know for sure this season.

Quote: The difference between Josh and Marvin is that Josh has had THREE years in the league. Marvin has had TWO Remember Josh didn't emerge until his 3rd season. He showed promising sings at the end of the 2nd season which is exactly what Marvin did last year Let's not write Marvin off just yet guys Give him a chance In fairness, Smoove did not have the benefit of a year of college basketball and the coaching at UNC that Marvin had. I am almost certain UNC has better coaches then the Hawks. Plus, when you are a very high lottery pick there are expectations that are not there with non-lottery selections.

Isn't Batista having a nice pre-season with the Celtics?

I am pretty sure Gordon averages more points, rebounds and assists on a per minute basis than JJ, all on a playoff team, so I don't think $70 million is far from what he will get.

Quote: It wasn't what Fratello did. Fratello won 49 games in the previous year with mediocre talent. Jerry West is the guy that traded away key players like Shane Battier, who was easily the Grizzlies best defender and one of their better all around players. Jerry West gave Mike a bunch of players that didn't know how to play defense this past season, and as a result, Mike was made into the scapegoat for Jerry. Jerry West did one of the worst GMing jobs in the NBA while in Memphis, and he receives no criticism for it. I don't see how he did such a terrible job given that he got his team to the playoffs several times and inherited a roster with only one bona fide all-star caliber player.

Quote: Childress went to college for three years. Last year was his 3rd year as a pro and he got 37 minutes per game. He gave us a whopping 13 ppg. That just doesn't cut it unless you are a really good defender. I can't see him being a starter on a good team. Most likely he is a career backup. Wait, but he is as good as Deng and Iggy . . .

Quote: Almost all of the news coming out is positive, which is so great to hear from the Hawks. Horf is going to get a huge amount of minutes as the center. I expect by December Horf will be starting, if not opening night. Josh getting more athletic is amazing to hear. It also sounds like his summer work is going to pay off huge for him and the team this year. Realistically, all the news coming out SHOULD be positive this time of year. That said, it is great to hear anyway. If Horford can play center effectivelly, and I am not sure making a comparison against Zaza in any manner means he can, then that is a huge plus for the team.

Quote: Quote: I would be alot happier with our roster if it included Deng, Paul/Deron and Roy instead of Childress, Marvin and Shelden, respectively. If we are talking about immediate returns, I do not see how anyone can argue with you. I still think a Marvin/Acie combo could turn out to be in the long run better than a Paul or Deron/Roy or Deng combo. This year is going to tell us a lot about Marvin one way or the other... You would take Marvin and Acie over Deron and Deng?

Quote: Quote: The fact that BK put the team in a position where it was forced to overpay for a free agent point guard in a year where the free agent point guards were crap, is evidence of Exodus' point. You need to look ahead in this league. I don't know about you but I'm happy with our roster. We passed on Paul & William but ended up with a point guard 2 year later anyway! So What's the problem? I'll take our roster over New Orleans roster any day of the week! I would be alot happier with our roster if it included Deng, Paul/Deron and Roy instead of Childress, Marvin and Shelden, respectively.

Quote: It all depends. I'd rather have Shelden/Speedy and Lo than Jerome James, Steve Francis and Malik Rose (at those contract prices). It's not like Speedy is making Kenyon-money and has missed most of several seasons (and or fought with the coaching staff when he was healthy). I agree in the principle of your theory, inaction has consequences also. But when I consider that most teams were offering us bloated contracts in trades (didn't the Warriors want us to take back Dunleavy or Murphy for Al?), then I'm not so sure. One last point, BK did first go after Cassell before moving on to Speedy. The other PGs available that year were Mike James and Marcus Banks. Not exactly a stellar group of future HOFers. The fact that BK put the team in a position where it was forced to overpay for a free agent point guard in a year where the free agent point guards were crap, is evidence of Exodus' point. You need to look ahead in this league.

Quote: You mean like how Indy did, by signing Harrington and giving away their 1st round pick? Or like how they did again, by dealing Harrington and Jackson, for Dunleavy, Murphy, and Digou? Or like how the Lakers "allegedly" did, when they didn't want to trade Bynum and Odom, for Jason Kidd? Action for the sake of action, can be disasterous most of the time in the NBA. The "risk" taken has to be a well thought-out calculated risk. I am pretty sure he means something like Golden State going out and trading for Baron Davis. Huge risk involved, but obviously huge upside as well. Or something like Orlando giving a max deal to Grant Hill back in the day. Did they get their money? No. But any GM with the money would have given him the same deal.