Packfill

Quote: IWhile I think Shelden will become a 12/10 guy with good defense many are writing that off as a bust and horrible pick. So let me get this straight, our need last year was a big body downlow to playa d in the paint. There were no "true" pgs so we take a proven 2 time defensive player of the year and all-american at our need, but its a horrible idea. Then this year our need is a PG so the best option is a 19yr old freshman that played on a stacked team. Does anyone else not find this ironic???? The same posters that beat BK to death for drafting on need and not taking a player that may have more upside even if it is at a duplicate position, now want to do the same thing this year with someone that is even less proven. Im not bashing Conley here, but some want to draft guy that before the lottery when we got the 3rd pick was not projected in any mock to go higher then 7. even now in many mocks he is sliding to 11. So BK should just take the less proven talent much higher then supposed to inorder to fill a need?????????????? God I love the hypocracy that runs rampent on here. I think Chad Ford is posting under 20 SN's There is no hypocrisy. BK drafted a forward last year with the number five pick despite using 4 first round picks in the three previous drafts on forwards. No one would have complained had BK drafted a center. Sheldon never had a chance to start on the Hawks unless BK/Woody were willing to Bench Marvin, the previous years number 2 overall selection. So one more time: the Atlanta Hawks' two biggest needs for the past three years have been: (1) pass first starting caliber point guard and (2) defensive oriented center with some semblance of a back to the basket offensive game (or at least able to provide defense or offense). BK has two picks and the ability to trade some redundent assets to get a point guard and a center. If he doesn't get at least one of those he fails. There is no need for another forward.

I doubt Charlotte does that deal for the simple fact that Okafor is > 3rd pick and 8th pick is > Childress. Plus that would leave Charlotte with one of the worst defensive frontcourts this side of Atlanta.

For me, worse case scenario is coming out of the draft without a starting caliber pass first point guard.

Quote: Quote: JRich wouldn't it here anyway because of his contract and JJ. Exactly. You cannot have your two max contracts going to two wings.... unless those 2 wings are named Jordan & Pippen. Richards and JJ Neither of those combos are Jordan / Pippen like. Agreed. Besides, JRich plays the same position as JJ.

Quote: I agree every player drafted has a bust factor. The claim that Conely will be a star is silly. How many 19 year old points have come out and been exceptional? I can't think of one. The NBA eats in-experienced PGs for breakfast. They then loose confidence, and their game goes south. Didn't Stephon Marbury come out after his freshman year? He has been disappointing but he did well as a rookie. Also, Chris Paul was barely 20 when he came into the league and did quite well.

I still firmly believe that this team goes nowhere without the a pass first point guard. We will never know how good Smoove, Marvin, Childress and Sheldon will be without one. I also firmly believe that a good point guard makes those around him better and that the sume is greater then the parts when it comes to a basketball team. If BK hadn't made some bad picks in the past that have bloated the forward depth chart, then I would be all over Horford or Yi, but since that is not the case, I remain firmly in the Conley camp.

Isn't it obvious that they need a point guard and a center? No need to read between the lines to figure that out.

Quote: I don't care really. Before Nash came there Phoenix was terrible so I would expect him to still put up around 17pts a game which is what he did. Fact is he still has no offensive game! Smith, Marvin and Chill can all do what he does already at a younger age and way cheaper salary. Smith will be better than Marion anyways. Maybe Marvin too. You will be interested to know then that in the three years prior to Nash's arrival Marion averaged 19, 21, and 19 points per game, all while averaging over two steals, 1.5 blocks and 9 rebounds per game, and shooting over .390 from three point range in two of those three years. You will also be interested to know that Phoenix went to the playoffs two years before Nash's arrival. So to call them terrible is a bit of a fallacy. Now obviously Marion duplicates what the Hawks already have (i.e., forwards), so it is a moot point, but let's not make stupid statements for the sake of it.

Just so you know, Marion put up some pretty big numbers before Nash came to Phoenix.

More and more that Marvin pick is standing out as a big obstacle in the Hawks rebuilding. BK has sort of painted himself into a corner now because this team desperately needs a pass first point guard and big man with some post moves and defensive skills. It is really sad that BK is probably going to use his 6th consecutive first round pick on a forward, three of which are very high lottery selections. Why does this guy still have a job?

Quote: Quote: Quote: No jump shot. Do you ever watch baskebtall? Jack's effective field goal on jumpers is .462. For comparison on our team JJ- .498 Jack - .462 Lue - .454 Marvin - .415 Smith - .316 How can you be sure that's from jumpshots? A lot of layups could've inflated it. But I agree with bumpy. To trade #11 for an average/decent PG is ludicrous Why is trading the 11th pick for a starting caliber point guard ludicrous? Look at BK's track record and tell me how that suggests he can do better. Consider the production he has gotten out of former 2nd overall, 5th overall and 6th overall picks - all at positions which are much easier filled then point guard. Think of this especially in light of the fact that the Hawks will already likely be acquiring another young rookie with the 3rd pick. Would it not be better to get someone with at least some experience on the floor? After four years of rebuilding do the Hawks really want to be in position where they are going to start two rookies? Will we ever know if Smoove, Chill, Marvin and Sheldon are any good without a half-way decent point guard with a little experience on the roster - or do you want to wait until after their rookie contracts expire to figure out what they can do? This Hawks team desperately needs some more veteran leadership.

Quote: At least part of being a pf is attitude and the fact that he wants to play there says something. As opposed to Smoove who could play pf but wants to play outside as a sf. I think Yi will put on some weight and be a force inside in a year or two. Come on now, saying it and doing it are two different things. Marvin said during his courtship for the draft that his favorite player was Garnett because of his passion and aggression. How did that work out for Marvin? The dude looks like he is asleep on the court most of the time. Your arguments for Yi are the exact same arguments that people used two years ago to justify taking Marvin over two very talented and needed point guards.

Quote: Also...one of the things I like about what I believe Yi is is that he's not in love with the perimeter shot. I see no reason why he can't become a long range bomber, and I love the fact that his first instinct seems to be to attack the rim off the dribble. A guy can do that from the perimeter, but he can also do it from the elbow and the baseline. He doesn't have to be far away from the basket to utilize his silky smooth athleticism, it appears to be an advantage for him anywhere he stands on the offensive end. I don't expect this guy to lurk around the three point line waiting for jump shots. Nothing in the clips I've seen or in the things I've read indicates he's that kind of 7 footer. It's actually the opposite, he lookes like he has a Dwayne Wade (obviously a ridiculous overall comparison, but not for this particular point) mentality when he has the ball. LOL at the Wade comparison. This is the exact type of hype that predated Marvin's arrival in Atlanta.

Quote: Quote: It's not stupid if they are better. You just aren't looking in terms of business. If you are a guaranteed top 5 pick, THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GO IS DOWN. So one bad outing, and you could lose millions of dollars. Why the hell would you risk something like that when you have nothing to gain? It's a one-sided bet. You're looking at it from the perspective of benefiting our team. You have to look at it in terms of the individual. There is a reason a guy like Calvin Johnson, with nothing to gain, ran at the NFL combine. Same with Deion Sanders years ago. If they don't think they are good enough to come out on top then maybe they aren't as good as perceived.

If the opposing center was constantly going to the three point line then any coach worth his salt would tell his players to switch on defense such that the Oden's of the world remain in the paint to make life difficult for the opposition. This is common sense.

I don't understand why anyone would want their center way out on the 3-point line. I would want my center down on the block for a high percentage shot or to grab a rebound. Let the guards shoot the ball from deep.

Quote: Quote: i said 2 weeks ago Noah won't be afraid to work out against anybody, anywhere. i'm not a proponent of taking him 3rd, but i'm also not a proponent of taking someone who is scared to lay it on the line at #3 either. I love Noah but he has nothing to lose and everything to gain by outperforming Wright. Same thing with Law calling out Conley. Conley is the cosensus #1 PG in this draft, his stock can only go down. From a business standpoint it would be stupid for him to put that on the line. Just like it would be stupid for Wright to put his stock on the line like that. Just like it would be stupid for Yi to put his on the line. But Wright is the only one called out for doing something that's just smart. It's not stupid if they are better.

Quote: Yi at 3, and while he isn't a center today he would create so many problems for opposing teams that it would be worth it. I'd love to come out of this draft with a sure-fire blueprint for a future championship team, but I'm more realistic than that. Yi should be enough to get us up another notch, and potentially could become a legit NBA post player. He may get pushed around right now, but he's still young (even if he's 23, which I don't think he is), and players DO develop as they mature and as they face new challenges. His apparent athleticism would be something we've never seen in a 7 footer, and we're in an era when most centers are not really centers anyway. I am pretty sure we have seen 7 footers who are better athletes then Yi already - i.e., Kevin Garnett, David Robinson, Shaq, Wilt, Duncan, etc.

I would take Farmar for Lue but would not want Kwame.

The problem is Speedy has never made it through a full season so relying on him is asking for trouble. Moreover, he has never been a great distributor so I am not sure he really provides what the Hawks need even if healthy. He is a quality reserve if healthy though.

Quote: Just out of curiosity: When was the last time a team traded a high lottery pick for a veteran and came out on the better end of the deal? I seriously can't remember this ever happening 1. The Clippers got the better end of the Elton Brand/Tyson Chandler draft pick trade. 2. Houston did pretty well (in terms of won/loss record) in bringing in Shane Battier for the draft pick that turned into Rudy Gay (although Gay was quite good for Memphis). 3. I can't remember what Golden State gave up for Baron Davis, but seem to remember the price not being very high. There are probably lots of other examples.

Quote: the title is over the top but the sentiment is not...i really feel we will in that exact position bhayley speaks of...bk has not drafted well at all for need but he has drafted good players...no real busts (yet)....hopefully this season the needs we be in place and we can make a run..it's a matter of players finding the niche and doing what they do best and what they're roles are...one problem i felt last year, other than the injuries, was poorly defined roles. which of course is woody's fault... i really feel that IF we can score more and easier we will very good..... then again woody is still the coach. Woody can't coach so this team desperately needs a point guard who understands spacing and can get his teammates the ball in position where they can score.

Agreed.

Why do people want to draft another forward if they think Marvin is going to breakout this year? If you don't think Marvin will ever breakout then I can see that you have an argument to draft a forward (assuming you also think Chill and Sheldon lack starting potential). Otherwise, I don't see the rationale in drafting a forward. Wouldn't a really good point guard make the Hawks existing forwards better?

That is a bad idea because the Hawks would be even softer on the interior. That and Josh Smith is a fan favorite.