Packfill

Quote: It's easier for who to pad stats on a bad teams... Guys like JJ and Smoove who have the ball in their hands most of the time or role players? Go back over the season, how many times did we wish that we had better coaching so that more players could get the ball. How much better did we play when JJ went out and the ball flowed more. I think I can find a Sekou article to jog your memory? So you have conceded that Sheldon is a role player? There is no question the Hawks win more games with competent coaching and point guard play. No question. the Hawks do not have either. That being said, playoff teams do not hand out minutes to a second round rookie. They are earned. How many plays you think were called for Milsap?

Quote: I think it comes down to one easy question. Is it easier to be productive for a good team with a good coach or for a bad team with a Lousy coach?? When you figure it out, come on back! The classic chicken or the egg. Everyone knows it is easier to pad stats on a losing team because team dymanics and winning aren't a concern.

Quote: Quote: The key here is that Milsap is contributing for a playoff team. Sheldon was a non-factor for a bottom feeder. So as of right now I don't see how you can argue that Milsap hasn't made a more valuable contribution to date. That's a terrible conclusion... Was Scott Williams a better contributor than Kevin Willis because Williams played for the Bulls and won 3 championships and Willis played for the Hawks and won none??? OF Course not. Milsap is a BU for Boozer. He plays in a team that has better coaching & A team that has better players at key positions. Again, Utah would be tickled pink if the offered was made Shelden for Milsap... And next year at this time, we'll have the "Diaws" saying " I can't believe we traded that guy... Who knew he was that good!"... You didn't even read my post. Milsap has done more this year. You realize he average 6.8 points, 5.2 rebounds and .9 blocks in 18 minutes a game versus Sheldon's 5.5, 5.4 and .48 in 18.7 minutes per game? You also realize that Milsap shot .525 versus .455 for Sheldon? So statistically Milsap did more - and he did this for a better team. You mention Milsap being a back-up for Boozer as a bad thing. Why? Sheldon is a back-up for Josh Smith. Is that bad too? I don't understand why you bring up Scott Williams and Kevin Willis. Willis was a starter most of his career. Scott Williams was a back-up most of his career. How are the two comparable?

The key here is that Milsap is contributing for a playoff team. Sheldon was a non-factor for a bottom feeder. So as of right now I don't see how you can argue that Milsap hasn't made a more valuable contribution to date.

I never said that. I do think they are similar players though. Plus, this is a stupid argument. Utah is getting contributions in the playoffs from a rookie selected in the second round. That is a bargin. Sheldon was a four year starter and a high lottery selection so he ought to be a better from day 1 going forward. Remember, Sheldon was not drafted to be a project - he was adverstised as game ready. Hopefully it was just the injury and poor coaching that limited Sheldon as a rookie. I don't see how anyone can argue that Utah is not getting better value at this point.

Quote: Player A will will have a head and shoulders better career than Player B because of their rookie season. Typical Hawks fan logic. What are you talking about?

Quote: Quote: Milsap can actually move on the court. He can put the ball on the floor and he has a good mid range jumper. The point about SW being a better college player is just stupid. Great college players fail in the league all the time. Duke has a track record of busts in the league. At the very least a lot of their players do not reach the hype they had in college. Milsap was a beast in college. I believe he led the nation in rebounding. He has a motor that SW can only dream about. Sloan would never trade Milsap for SW...NEVER. And since he actually knows what he is doing, unlike around this forsaken franchise, I would take his opinion over BK's or Gutz. BTW, Gutz, I have seen the Hawks play 1000x more than you have. If SW were any good this lousy team would have played him more. The scrub couldn't even play for the HAWKS!!! if Gutz had seen the Hawks play let's say 25 times do you realize that you would have had to have watched 304 seasons of Hawks basketball for that statement to be true? Shelden's PT was a Woodson issue over a Shelden issue. he looked like he was every bit of a 5th pick early on. It's too soon to write off the Shelden selection as a mistake. give him a couple of years in the league to show a legitimate sample size to base an opinion on. Now Marvin Williams........ that sucker better show us something next year. The honeymoon is over. I would like to see a thread predicated on the subject of team building. it seems like there's alot of player bashing going on around here. let's examine some of the cause and effect scenarios of these individual decisions, like trading for Joe Johnson to be the PG. how would that have played out if the Hawks had drafted someone like Paul or Deron? to be fair and balanced it seems to me that if you are going to complain about a decision such as drafting Marvin over Deron please be fair enough to consider the possibility that the Joe trade may not have been swung as a result. Subsequently this would have affected last year's draft as SG (Roy) may have been a position that made sense at #5. I am going to get flamed for this but I honestly don't think the Hawks would be worse off if the JJ trade does not go down. Basically, if the trade is not contemplated maybe that is enough for BK to pull the trigger on a point guard over Marvin. So pencil in Deron or Paul. That leaves a big hole at shooting guard right? So instead of Sheldon the Hawks pick Roy. A Deron/Roy backcourt has a ton of potential and is preferable to a ?????/JJ backcourt. Yes JJ is the best player mentioned here, but Roy has just as much potential and then when you add in a future all-star like Williams or Deng you are set in the backcourt for years. Forward is still ably maned by Smoove, Childress, Diaw and whomever else.

Quote: I like how you left off my next two sentences about Roy. Walter we had absolutely no need for ROY!!! So I guess your saying bench JJ? That makes tons of sense Well, if Josh Smith is the Hawks starting power forward then how does Sheldon make sense? For what it is worth, Portland has indicated that Roy will play point guard for them next season.

Monta is a good player but he is not a point guard, so I don't see what role he would play on the Hawks. The Hawks need a real point guard if they are going to maximize the potential of Smoove, Marvin, Chill and Sheldon.

Conley.

Quote: Belkin Hasn't Coughed up Tower Payments Belkin's Contract in Dispute Belkin and Italian Architect Butt Heads This is the guy that some of you want as the owner of the Hawks, and this is how he does business. It seems that every venture he makes meets controversy. He strikes a deal to pay for the garage area for his Tower Project, yet he doesn't want to pay the money it takes to get the site. The guy is in yet another dispute over a contract, and he even ran off the architect that was to design the Tower over "creative differences". This is how he would run the Hawks, folks. All the stuff you heard about him wanting to run the Hawks on the cheap and turn a profit are true. That's the reason he blocked the Joe Johnson trade. Steve Belkin talks a big talk, but when it comes to ponying up the money, it's obvious that he doesn't walk the walk. And some of you want to blame Michael Gearon Jr. and Bruce Levensen for the ownership dispute when it is obvious that Steve Belkin is the source of the problems and doesn't deal in good faith when it comes to these deals. Um, aren't Gearon and Levenson the ones that decided to get into bed with Belkin in the first place? Gearon and co. are a bunch of dolts who obviously got conned by Belkin. I don't want any of them to own the Hawks.

I think the outlook of the team changes drastically if they get the first or second pick as both Oden and Durant and have franchise caliber talent. Beyond that though, all we can do is hope BK addresses the point guard situation. My worst case scenario is where Indy gets the 1st or second pick and the Hawks get the third pick. You just know BK will think it is too early to pick one of the point guards and thus he will draft someone like Wright, Brewer or Green yet not make any significant trades.

As far as I know, Wilcox is neither a good rebounder nor a good defender. He is athletic, but that is about it. In addition, most of his scoring is in the form of put-backs and dunks rather then a dependable arsenal of low-post moves.

Wilcox is not very good. I wouldn't want him as a starting center. Back-up power forward fine, but nothing more. Even though Marvin has disapointed, I still think the Hawks could do much better in a trade then Wilcox. Plus, if given the opportunity I would take Oden over anyone in this draft or the past three drafts combined. I find it unlikely that the team goes into next season with Speedy, Lue and AJ all on the roster.

Quote: They say the coach is terrible, but give him no credit for putting guys like JJ, Smoove, and Marvin in the best positions possible to maximize their offense. How again has woodson put these guys in the best positions possible to maximize their offense? I didn't realize they had maximized their offense especially given the low shooting percentages of Smoove and Marvin.

Quote: Stop changing your argument Walt. I know you're good at that. The fact is that without the injuries, that 04 - 05 Jazz team was well on their way to winning 35- 45 games that year. They were in no way, shape or form a sub 30 game team. You are not focusing on the big picture. Utah may have one 40 games with a healthy squad back in 04-05 but they were not talented enough and lacked the leadership at the point guard position necessary to make the leap from an average team to a team that can win in the playoffs. Deron is essential to their team and his development has allowed Utah to become more then a perennial first round disappointment. So even if the Hawks won 40 games this year they would still be missing the necessary elements to take their game to the next level. This is why people are critical of BK. He has built a team that doesn't have the right pieces to win in the playofffs. Now sure, not every team is going to win a championship and right now most Hawks fans would be happy with just making the playoffs, but from day one when BK blew-up the old SAR-JT team he said he was doing it so as to build the team the right way (i.e., turn the team into something more then a first round loser). Is building a fundamentally flawed team the right way? Who wins in the playoffs you ask? Historically, teams with great big men (Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Malone, etc.), mega superstars (Jordan, Bird) or leaders who can manage and sometimes take over the game from the point guard position (Magic, Billups, Thomas).

Quote: keep in mind in terms of COACHING JERRY SLOAN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MIKE WOODSON That right there shows how big of a problem the Hawks have. The ownership is f'ed up, which leads to the retention of a bad GM, who stands behind a bad coach.

San Antonio. There is just something so refreshing about watching a well coached, fundamentally sound, strong defensive team play.

Thanks for the report. If he is a perimeter player then I totally agree that he does not fit the bill for the Hawks.

The reality is the Hawks have the worst ownership situation in professional sports history, have a coach and GM with terrible track records and have only 2 bona fide NBA starters. But other then that, the team is in great shape!

Quote: First Off, a team in the NBA has to have the horses to win. WE NEED Some Horses. We have to have players with ability and Fire. Right now, we have three. Chillz and Shelden can be 4 and 5. Who are the three "horses" the Hawks have? JJ, Smoove, . . . ?

Quote: Atlanta is set at SG, SF, and PF for the next 10 years. the C is serviceable in today's NBA with the lack of true post players available. the team is a legit PG away from being in the playoffs. the team is a legit PG, possibly a Center, and 2 years of further development from Marvin, Smoove, and Chillz' games away from being a contender with said PG. by that time Baron Davis will be on his way out of the league, Al Harrington will be playing for his 6th team, and Stephen Jackson will likely be incarcerated. I'm OK with where we're at as of 9:32 AM on Tuesday, May 08 2007. I guess hope is all we have, but it is not like Golden State is ancient given that they have promising and emerging young talent like Biedrins and Ellis already on their roster and already contributing at a high level.

Quote: Quote: Quote: i dont have a problem for him saying that b/c we the laughing stock in the NBA. Who wanna come to Atlanta with the ownership situation unless we overpay them to play here. We had a dumbass GM who will continue to make mistakes this offseason and we have a dumbass coach who thinks its ok 2 bench our young players(Salim,Shelden&Josh)and continue 2 make coach mistakes. Im not mad at him for saying that. I hope we get bash even more so we can see some changes around this team or else look for another losing season. Remember a few years ago when Jason Williams, of Grizzlies at the time, said to reporters in frustration "People talk about the Hawks being the worst team, naw, we're the worst." Humiliating these owners seems to be our only recourse. I wish more people would say these things. Jackson has played for both ends of the spectrum. I am no fan of his, but he surely knows the difference between a winning organization and a losing one. Hope that is true, but I seriously doubt it. I think they are handcuffed by the court matter. At this point the only way out for us any time soon is to get a top three pick. Two weeks we'll hear. If anything, it is even sadder that our owners are such dumba$$es that they let this situation occur. The organization is flawed from the very top. That is not an excuse for the incompetence of BK and Woody, but if the Hawks had capable owners those two would be long gone.

That would be a terrible trade for Indy.

Quote: Odom would be perfect. He would be versatile enough to take minutes from all our important young players. Perfect BK trade target. I am hoping that post is saturated with sarcasm. He would be perfect for the ultimate 5 forward line-up though!