Packfill

My head tells me to not even think about landing Conley and Oden because it will mostly likely result in more pain and suffering, but my heart says PLEASE LET IT HAPPEN!

Quote: I would have to argue that Smith is a bona fide starter right now for just about any team in the league. At least 75% of the teams would make room for him at SF or PF, maybe even more would be my guess not having every roster in front of me. I think we have two very legit pieces in JJ and Smith, a couple of decent-probability-will-be-legit pieces (Marvin, Shelden), two legit 6th man type guys that could start on teams with stars at the other positions (Chil, Zaza - and to me, Marvin and Shelden's worst case scenario is ending up in this category, which isn't awful, but isn't great), one longshot but huge upside cheap guy (Solomon), one young backup guy with value as a specialist worth keeping around (Salim), and lots of completely replaceable backups that we should actively be trying to package in deals for legit starters(AJ, Lue, Speedy, Wright, Ivey, Batista). I don't think anyone's untradeable by any means, but the order I put these guys in is the order I would think they are a priority to be kept. If Shelden and Marvin realize their potential as true starting SF and PF in the league (like a Jamison and a Boozer for example), and we get franchise PG and Centers, I think we have championship talent. Conley (or Crit or Law) - two of our backup PGs for depth JJ - Salim - Chil (backups with opposite skills for matchup purposes Marvin - Smith - Chill (Great depth and skill at SF) Smith - Shelden (two starters in rotation depending on matchups, many games I would think Marvin and Smith would rotate at SF) Oden - Zaza - Solomon The franchise PG, JJ and Oden would be the cemented starters while Marvin, Smith and Shelden would probably share time as starters and 6th men. On a championship level team that ain't no slap in the face (Stackhouse, Jamison, Ginobli all are guys that have done it and still produce at a high level). Obviously this scenario is the best case scenario and requires a tremendous amount of luck and player development, but it's a possibility, and it would validate the way the team's been built so far. Chances of it happening are less than 5%. I agree with this except I think Smoove is locked in at one forward spot as he has proven to be head and shoulders better then the other forwards on the roster. So for match-up purposes I could see the Hawks playing Smith at one forward position and then alternating/rotating between Childress, Marvin and Sheldon depending on the particular matchup.

I would trade any of those guys for Bynum.

Quote: The spirit have the money to buy Belkin out. They just don't want to be taken advantage of and pay the inflated value Belkin's people estimated the franchise is now worth. There is no way the franchise has appreciated as quickly as Belkin thinks. The Spirit really got themselves into this. Had they acted in a timely manner they could have bought Belkin out at cost. Right ? Big partnerships = big trouble in the business world, that will never change. I have read that the Spirit group will be bringing in another partner if they get control - they need more money to buy out Belkin. And there are legions of examples of successful partnerships in the business world, hundreds of these such partnerships/joint ventures are entered into each day, many involving substantially larger sums of money. Most people never hear about them unless something goes wrong.

Quote: How could a judge award ownership to Belkin without prior approval of Belkin, as sole owner, from Stern and the league ? It makes no sense for a court to award ownership to Belkin if the league will not allow him to take over sole ownership. No one runs the risk of owning a team in their personal name. Too much to lose. He will have to create a new artificail entity with enough equity and credit to own both the Hawks and Thrashers. I just don't see this happening. There seems to be holes all in Belkin's case the more you look at it. Bottom line the league must get involved some how befor the judge can issue a ruling b/c only the ASG has been improved as owners (not the new seperate entity Blkin must create if he wins in court.) I don't see a jusge allowing Belkin to win in court only to have the leagues (NBA & NHL) say Belkin does not have the assets to own the teams. This should be a major arguement presented by the ASG's lawyers. What a snake ! Any one who supports Belkins must have some ethical issues of their own. The Spirit group doesn't have enough money to buy out Belkin, so by that logic, none of the above should be owner and the team should be auctioned to the highest bidder.

Anyone still want to debate whether Childress is as good as Deng?

Que soundtrack to "Mrs. Robinson" by the Beattles (insert Belkin in place of Gearon if you prefer): and up yours Mr. Gearon Hawks fans hate you more than you will know bohoo bohoo go away please Mr. Gearon Hawks fans can only pray hey hey hey...hey hey hey we like to know a little bit about you for our files we like to help you learn to help yourself look around youu all you see are wasted draft picks stroll around the empty arena until you feel at home and up yours Mr. Gearon Hawks fans hate you more than you will know wuwuwu go away please Mr. Gearon Hawks fans can only pray hey hey hey...hey hey hey Hide Billy Knight in a hiding place where no one ever goes Put him in the unemployment line It's no secret, just the Gearons' don't understand Most of all, you've got to do it for the fans Coo, coo, ca-choo, Mr. Gearon Hawks fans hate you more than you will know (bohoo, bohoo) Go away please, Mr. Gearon Hawks fans can only pray (Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey) sitting on a sofa on a sunday afternoon Going to the Hawks forum Lament about it, cry about it When you've got to choose Ev'ry way you look at it, you lose Where have you gone Ted Turner, the Hawks nation turns its lowly eyes to you, boohoo, boohoo, what's that you say Mr. Gearon Ted Turner has long left and gone away, oh vey, oh vey, oh vey

My bad. Considering the Hawks were the fourth worst team in the league you would think that I could identify who was even more pathetic!

Quote: Correct. JC is a JC clone. Except Crawford has the worst shot selection in the league. Crit may make the worst decisions running the point that I've seen from a big time prospect, in a long time. All the kid needs is another year or two to hone his skills and his mental game. When he does that, he'll be a dang good player in the league. But have him come out early, and it could have a team waiting 2 - 3 years to grow out of what really ails him as a b-ball player. By that time, we might be in another total rebuilding mode. Pick Law. He has the talent right now, and we won't have to go through growing pains if we let him run the show. If Crittendon is anything like Crawford the Hawks should not even consider drafting him. Yuck.

Quote: Bernie Mullin got me thinking.... They are using the Jedi mind trick and I am falling victim to it... Somebody debate this statement and help me see the light that BK really is this bad... Woody too! Quote: The projected top five -- guards Speedy Claxton and Joe Johnson, forwards Josh Smith and Marvin Williams and center Zaza Pachulia -- started only four games together due to a series of injuries that began in training camp! This caught my eye in the Mullin says Woodson to return as Hawks coach article. Here's what I know intellectually. 1. I know we're just not going to pay Woody to sit at home. 2. I know that no coaches will touch this job. 3. I know nothing Bernie ever says comes to pass. 4. I know that Bernie's just there to make the fans feel good about the product and he never intends on telling the whole truth about anything... BUT.... He makes a very strong point quoted up above. IF Speedy, JJ, Marvin, JS, and Zaza only played 4 games together... Doesn't that mean that the team that BK built never saw the court together? Somebody can check 82 games and see if they won all 4 lost all 4 or split them, but more importantly, who did we play and how did we play.. and Isn't 4 games nothing in terms of continuity either way? This is what I remember. There was a stretch when Speedy was playing that he and us looked good. He was around the 8-9 apg mark and he was also collecting steals. I think that time corresponded to JSmoove being back too. So again... How good can we be? Is BK really that bad? Somebody release me from the Jedi mind trick with a sensible , logical argument. For the record: 1. Milwaukee's project starting five (Mo Williams; Michael Redd; Bobby Simmons; Charlie Vilaneuva; and Andrew Bogut) never shared the court at any point during the season (Simmons missed the entire season). 2. The Bucks suffered from about the same number of missed player games as the Hawks. Everyone of their starters and several key reserves missed significant time. 3. The Bucks had a better record then the Hawks. 4. The Bucks fired their coach for underachieving mid-season.

I highly doubt that is Gearon responding to the various posts at the AJC's site - at least I hope it is not him.

Both? If I have to choose I say point guard because a good point. If Conley is off the board at 11 I would try and trade the pick to Portland for Jack or another similiar young veteran point guard with upside.

Quote: Quote: What does the lottery have to do with anything? Im guessing if we get a top 3 he could have something to work with but one player wont change a whole lot. At least the Hawks ownership is smart enough to realize the only way they can lure a legitimate coach to this moribund franchise is to get a top 2 pick and entice a coach eager to work with Oden or Durant. Absent getting a top two pick, they will retain Woody since they are cheap bastards. Simple as that. I take it back, the ownership might not be smart enough to figure this out.

Quote: What does the lottery have to do with anything? Im guessing if we get a top 3 he could have something to work with but one player wont change a whole lot. At least the Hawks ownership is smart enough to realize the only way they can lure a legitimate coach to this moribund franchise is to get a top 2 pick and entice a coach eager to work with Oden or Durant. Absent getting a top two pick, they will retain Woody since they are cheap bastards. Simple as that.

Quote: I'd take Aldridge over Sheldon and I think BK will too. I would also take Marcus Williams and Brandon Roy over Sheldon. I like Craig Smith in round 2 as a poor man's Sheldon. Shorter and not as good a shot blocker but other than that, very similar. Give me Roy/Aldridge/Williams and Craig and I am happy with the draft. VDiLetto nailed it, only now Sheldon is a poor man's Craig Smith.

Quote: We have such a screwed up situation right now. I wonder if we got the 1 or 2 pick, would Oden or Durant go to court and claim they shouldn't be required to go into contract with such an uncertain situation? They likely would not do that but could decide to pull out of the draft and go back to school for another year.

And you guys wonder why the Hawks are the national medias favorite whipping boy! This move absolutely confirms that the Hawks have the worst ownership in professional sports history. Incompetent on every level.

I wouldn't go as far as to put Ridenour in Hinrich's league, but it just goes to show how bad the Hawks point guard play is. Do people realize how much better this team would be with an Andre Miller at the point? Do you realize how much better Smoove, Marvin and Chill would be? The complete absence of solid point guard play has plagued this team for 8+ years.

Quote: EDS . . that's BS. He's not better than a healthy Tyronn Lue who is a far better offensive player than Luke is, and knows when to pick his spots to score. He's not better than a healthy Speedy Claxton, who is 3X the defender that Luke is and only slightly less of an offensive player. Luke is a better playmaker than both of those guys . . but only slightly. People act like Luke would be the answer at PG with the Hawks. That's crazy to say, if you've ever seen Luke play. Given the minutes, a guy like Jose Calderon could do exactly what Luke does right now, more efficiently on BOTH ENDS of the floor. Give me a BU PG like Calderon any day of the week, over Luke. It is not BS at all. Lue is a better shooting guard (as in, he is not a point guard) then Ridenour but he has nowhere near the playmaking abilities of Ridenour. It is not even close, Lue, AJ and Speedy have zero playmaking abilities. They are all undersized shooting guards. A dude like Ridenour makes players like Smoove, Marvin and Chill better by getting them the ball in a position to score and creating easy scoring opportunties. Does that mean he is a good player? No. It just means the Hawks currently have a bunch of scrubs at the position.

I think you are right that Ridenour is very limited as a player and I do not have much interest in the Hawks acquiring him. That said, he is still better then any point guard currently on the Hawks roster.

Quote: Seems like a reasonable request. Here's an offering that'll likely be viewed as a bit convoluted, but here goes. It begins with the good fortune of us getting the 2nd pick (which we QUICKLY use to take Durant), and it includes a potential scenario where we also get the 5th, 12th, 21st, and 35th picks in the '07 draft, AND Camby. So we select Durant, then package Marvin and Speedy to Seattle for the Sonics' 5th and 35th picks and Ridnour. Logic: Rashard's off to greener pastures, so an affordable/rising sf is greatly needed to replace Lewis (perfect fit for Marvin); Sonics wish to ship Ridnour as he's out-of-favor there (Speedy could go back to his back-up role behind Earl Watson at a slight decrease in cost to Sonics); Sonics also have 1st and 5th picks in 2nd round, and are already quite young. Hawks select Hibbert with 5th pick. Hawks send 11th pick plus Childress to Philly for 12th and 21st picks (plus a 2nd round pick in '08). With the 12th pick we select Batum (as apprentice to JJ); with the 21st pick we select Crittenton (as apprentice to Ridnour). Batum will more than make up for the contributions we get from Chilz, and his upside is off the charts. Philly doesn't have a Chilz type player who can play multiple positions and add to team's overall basketball IQ. Philly is essentially getting Chilz for the 21st pick this year and a 2nd rounder in '08. We get a 19 year-old (Batum) whose game projects to be the JJ type, and a 19 year-old (Crittenton) 6'5" point guard who'll have an opportunity to learn the pro game behind Ridnour. With the 35th pick we select the very athletic - and inconsistent - 6'8" Rey Terry (UNC) to work behind Durant. We package AJ, Lo Wright, and our '08 2nd round pick to Denver for Camby because Denver will need to cut salary to get below or near the 'luxury tax' threshold, and because Denver will badly need a point guard for next season(Blake's likely off to Portland after the playoffs). Both AJ and Lo's salaries will fall off the balance sheet at the end of next season, which would be great for Denver. Next season's roster therefore would include JJ, Durant, Hibbert, Smoove, Ridnour, Camby, Batum, Crittenton, Zaza, Solo, Rey Terry, Sheldon Williams, Salim, and Lue. Trade deadline deals should then be pursued for both Salim and Lue, as they're in the last year of their contracts. A couple of things: 1. There is no chance Seattle trades the 5th pick, 35th pick and Ridenour for just Marvin and Speedy. No chance whatsoever. they can easily get an equivalent prospect to Marvin with the 5th pick (i.e., Brewer, Green, Wright, etc.). 2. The Hawks really do not need another 19 year old developmental prospect (i.e., Batum) - especially if they have just drafted Durant. In fact, if the Hawks are lucky enough to get Durant then Childress is a good garbage guy off the bench. 3. Denver can easily get a better deal then Lo Wright and a second round pick for Camby. The Hawks can't afford Camby anyway. Otherwise, I like it.

I will be disappointed with anything less then 42 wins next year. The time to be competitive and relevant for the Hawks is next season.

Definite no.

I only have limited information on both of these guys, but it seems like Conley projects as more of a distributor whereas Law fits more in the Jason Terry type of point guard role. Assuming that is the case, then I would take Conley over law any day of the week.

Quote: The Hawks is not a very balanced team, and the best players do not seem to play their best together. We have seen for three years now that our young players are able to compete when given the reins, but they don't seem to show the same effectiveness when the team is completely healthy. I place a lot of the blame for this on Woodson's play calling, but some of it is attributable to the fact that there is only one ball and only so many touches and not every player can be effective as role player. It seems that we are building around JJ and Smoove. While Marvin is still developing, he only seems to play his best when JJ is not on the court. The same might be said for Lue. Does holding onto these players limit the team? Maybe/maybe not, but we could do better. I would like to see us start out next season with a complete team (playoff ready), and I don't think we can do it with just the draft. Some wheeling and dealing is required. So, if we are building around JJ and Smoove, is there anyone else who is untouchable? If so, why? I agree that some wheeling and dealing needs to be done. If I were in charge I would look to package the 11th pick (assuming the Hawks indeed get that pick) with someone currently on the roster to obtain a young point guard with experience and upside. This is particularly true if Conley is off the board. For center I would dump Lo Wright and look to sign a veteran who can play 18-25 minutes of hard nosed defense a night.