Packfill

Quote: Dude, Everyone has talked about this every single day for the last 4 months. Glad you caught on. Do you hang out with the new poster that calls himself Joe Johnson, you both have alot in common. Better to catch on late then never, I guess. I would trade Chills and the pick for a PG but not Smoove or Marvin. Way too early to get impatient on a 20 and 21 year. They will both only improve. To me a realistic scenerio is getting Jarrett Jack. Obtaing any PG with a true track record would be difficult. Bibby and Billups are both free agents and approaching 30. Both want their last long term contract be with a proven winner. I agree, if you get Oden then trading the pick and/or one of the surplus forwards for a young vet point makes alot more sense then starting two rookies.

Quote: I know most of the posters on the board would like to use the Indiana pick to get a point guard that can be groomed for the future. I propose that we use that pick to acquire an established point. Rookie pgs are not that great. In fact, the concensus best point to come out of college in a while, Chirs Paul, is only ranked 22 in the CBS pg rankings click For those that don't want to click I will list the top 15: 1) Arenas 2) Nash 3) Kidd 4) Deron Williams 5) Terry 6) Parker 7) Iverson 8) Hinrich 9) Barbosa 10) A. Miller 11) Billups 12) Marbury 13) Bibby 14) Felton 15) Monta Ellis 53) Anthony Johnson 57) T. Lue I include full names when the player is less known or when he could be confused with another player with the same last name. My thinking is that we could include the Indy pick with one of our current PGs, preferably Speedy, for one of these top 15. Of course some of these guys are untouchable, but there are a few guys here that might be had, namely: Kidd, Iverson, Barbosa, Miller, Billups (SnT), Marbury, Bibby, Felton, and possibly Ellis. Out of that list I wouldn't mind having: Kidd, Bibby, Miller, Ellis or Billups. The price tag, however, makes me think that we could manage either Miller or Ellis. The contracts of the other guys seem a bit high for what the Hawks are allowed to handle. So, a trade of Speedy+11-15 pick to Sac for Ellis, would seem to be a terrific trade for both teams, but what do you all think? That is the worst ranking of point guards I have ever seen.

Quote: No doubt that we need to upgrade our PG talent. I think that should be a young player who can be here for the long-term (which Barbosa would fit age-wise). I just don't think you can trade away a core asset like Josh Smith to fill a need. Chills, Marvin or Shelden would all be pieces I would move first and would think would be enough to get the Barbosa, Calderon, etc. level of players. I also would like to see what we can land in the draft before considering dealing one of our top players. Agreed. I do think you have to look at the success of some pass-first type point guards like Nash, Kidd, Ford, Paul, Deron and Miller. Is Toronto really more talented then the Hawks? Philly? The Hawks need a bona fide floor general to take advantage of guys like Josh Smith. How good would he be with an Andre Miller getting him the ball in scoring position as opposed to now where he gets it on the wing and has to create on his own? And yes, Marvin, Sheldin and Chill would be jettisoned long before Smoove. A guy like Calderon would be a great acquisition for the Hawks. Obviously you do not trade Smoove for him, but you have to consider making a deal with some of the other guys given what Calderon has shown (he was awesome when Ford was injured).

Quote: And there will be an appeal no matter what this Court says. This litigation could take years. I still can't believe the first idiot judge awarded the decision on Belkin because he literally handed his appeal in first (which was already written) and there's no language at all in the buyout contract about speed of appeal. Insane. The Atlanta Spirit f'ed up the contract, there own fault that they did not include a provision covering this matter. The Spirit may have a malpractice claim against their attorneys if they indeed lose the case.

Quote: Smith could announce he is never playing another game ever in an Atlanta Hawks jersey and he would still have enough trade value to land Barbosa or Calderon - easily. The trades you are proposing are akin to wondering if a GM could trade Kobe Bryant for Caron Butler. (I am not comparing the players themselves in this - just the talent gap.) I agree with this entirely, however, I do think the poster know as Joe Johnson has a good point (although he does a good job of hiding it). The point is that Toronto improved greatly because it traded away a redundant asset (i.e., Charlie V. when they had Bosh and Bargnani) who was highly regarded for a starting caliber point guard - a position of need on that team. While Toronto may have gotten the short end of the "talent" stick in that trade, the trade did make them a much better team. If we apply that lesson to Atlanta, BK has done a decent job acquiring assets but has failed miserably in that he has not used those assets to build a "team." More then anything, I think this is why BK has hurt this franchise.

Quote: Worst coaching records in NBA history by Winning % (min. 200 games) #1 Tim Floyed W-L 49 - 190 .205 % Bulls (1998-2001) #2 Sidney Lowe W-L 79 - 228 .257 % Wolves (1992-1994) Grizzles (2000-2003 #3 Mike Woodson W-L 67 - 174 .278 % Hawks (2004-present) #4 Ron Rothstein W-L 97 - 231 .296 % Heat(1988-1991) Pistons (1992-1993) #5 John Kerr W-L 93 - 190 .329 % Bulls(1966-68) Suns (1968-1970) #6 Matt Goukas W-L 111 - 217 .338 % Magic(1989-1993) #7 George Irvine W-L 100 - 190 .344 % Looks like we got us a real winner here folks. P.S ,if anyone has photoshop, could u please put Woody's or BK's head on this -> thanks The really amazing thing about that is that Billy Knight has hired TWO of the worst coaches of all time!

By choosing BK you are effectively eliminating both because no other GM would retain Woody.

Quote: Quote: Let's not forget the Terry for Walker trade, and subsequently Walker for a trashbag. Also killing any cap we had by those stupid signings and the completely pointless AJ trade. Both should go, but BK is worse. You do know that the Terry for Walker trade enabled us to not only get about 14 million off the books, but also gave us an extra 1st round pick. The money and the pick was used to get Joe Johnson here. If it wasn't for the prospect of paying him that extra 8 million to give him that first year salary of 20 million, Phoenix probably matches the deal. But because we pulled a "jack move" like that, Phoenix blinked, and we got JJ. As good as JJ is it still is hard to call the trade to acquire him as some great coup by the Hawks since they have won so few games during his two years with the team. The jury is still out on that trade. If Phoenix gets a player with that pick and Rondo develops it would be hard to argue that the Hawks would not be better off with Diaw/Rondo/Horford (for example) then with just JJ and Sheldon.

I don't think he would be viable candidate for a head-coaching position. Usually the players that make the best coaches are the ones that relied on smarts more then athletic ability.

If the Hawks get no picks we are going to have to hope for improvement from within. Maybe they finally pony up some cash for Anderson (probably not though since Smoove will be getting a huge deal this off-season).

I think Horford is the number 3 talent in the draft. I would be inclined to take him, install him at power forward and trade away Marvin and Sheldon for needs. At 12 I would take best available point guard assuming Hibbert is gone.

There is no excuse for Batista not learning English at this point. He is being paid lots of money and has access to private tutors so I have no sympathy for him. If you have to learn a language to advance in your career you do it or you don't advance, it is as simple as that.

If the Hawks get the number one pick in the draft they should take Oden.

Quote: newsflash: some people don't like Billy Knight's choices. That is because in most instances Billy has made the wrong choices.

The Bucks are playing without their entire starting 5. Amazing.

I sure hope so. Doesn't Indy still play Philly? Philly will likely win that game so that leaves a one game difference.

I am not so sure the Hawks want Philly to win. It seems by winning we run the risk of both NYK and Philly surpassing Indy in the win column.

Quote: The Bucks are without center Andrew Bogut and forward Charlie Villanueva, who are out for the season with injuries. They have a lack of bigs for the remainder of the season. According to the ESPN box score the Bucks are playing without their entire projected starting five - Mo Williams, Michael Redd, Bobby Simmons, Charlie Villanueva and Andrew Bogut. Now that is tanking!

Quote: More interesting and telling is the fact that he shoots 63% from the free throw line. You realize of course that for most of the season he was shooting with his left hand (not his right hand, which would be his normal shooting hand).

Quote: Billy Knight shouldn't be fired under any circumstance. He has put together a talented roster in Atlanta, and just like in Memphis, if he is fired, whoever replaces him will win with the talent he has put into place. All guys like Josh Smith and Marvin Williams needs is maturation. Smith is almost there. Williams will get there within the next year. If ASG decides to fire Billy Knight, it will be the first big mistake they have made. You aren't going to find a better talent evaluator in the game, and chances are, you are going to get a GM that will blow a wad of the salary cap on a player in an attempt to get the quick fix. Look at the Memphis Grizzlies. They haven't had a good draft since Billy Knight was their GM. They went to the playoffs with Billy's players. Now, after Billy's players are gone with the exception of Pau, the Grizzlies are the worst team in the league. Jerry West shouldn't be retiring from the Grizzlies. He should get fired, because he has done jack squat with that roster and has been an atrocious drafter. Your bias is becoming way off base. Memphis hasn't had a good draft since Billy? What are Hakim Warrick and Rudy Gay? Gay is every bit the equal of Marvin and was acquired with a much lower pick in a weak draft. Explain that. And again, what did Billy build in Memphis? All he did was acquire Gasol and Battier. I guess you can credit him with trading Bibby for J-Will but that is a downgrade in 99.9% of peoples minds. That team never gets to the playoffs without the coaching changes and personnel moves West makes (i.e., trading for Miller, signing Posey, etc.). What did he build?

Quote: Quote: Quote: I disagree. The foundation for success is in place. The Hawks have the first legitimate star player to build around since they had Dominique Wilkins in Joe Johnson. BTW, Joe Johnson was acquired in a trade that didn't send any players anywhere that was a salary dump. The Hawks traded two first round picks and a bit player for Joe Johnson. Along with Joe Johnson, the Hawks have a budding star in Josh Smith. Josh Smith's game has really taken off this year, and over his past 15 games, he's averaging almost 21 points and 10 rebounds per game. He's already getting some publicity as a potential All NBA Defensive Team member. Marvin Williams is another young player who is has the ability to be a star and has shown some signs of it this season. The combo of Marvin and Josh may be the best up and coming young forward tandem in the NBA. Those three players form a foundation that the Hawks haven't had since they had a young Dominique Wilkins, Doc Rivers, and Kevin Willis. I think fans are jaded on the ownership right now, and to me, that's a foolish stance to take. Steve Belkin is the guy that has caused the problems in the ownership. Michael Gearon Jr. and Bruce Levenson are terrific owners. If it weren't for them, the Joe Johnson trade would have never been pushed through. Steve Belkin is the one that blocked that because he wanted to run the team on the cheap and turn a profit off them. I think the fans should be careful when thinking the team needs knew ownership. You could get Steve Belkin, who would likely try to trade off Joe Johnson and Josh Smith before he gets his big pay day and try to run the team on the cheap at all times. He would also bring in the definition of incompetent in ML Carr and Jan Volk, the two people who would be put into place as GM and President if Belkin is to take over. I don't think the fans are being screwed. I think the fans had and continue to have unrealistic expectations considering the shape the franchise was in when this new ownership group and new management team took over. Would this team really be worse off if it had never traded for JJ? Let's say they never trade for JJ and instead of drafting Marvin and Sheldon they draft Paul and Roy. In that case they Hawks have argueably the best young backcourt in the NBA along with a collection of promising forwards (Smoove, Chill and Diaw). Heck, with the picks the Hawks gave up they could have drafted Rondo last year and potentially a Hibbert, Conley, Brewer or Green this year. And for the record, I am happy to have JJ around, but lets make that trade out to be something it is not. Yes. This team would be much worse off without the trade for JJ. To even think that Brandon Roy is at or will ever be at the level of JJ is foolish, and to think that Diaw would have ever been a key player of the Hawks is even worse. Diaw got his fat contract and has proceeded to play his usual lackidasical, heartless game. I would definitely take Anthony Johnson and Joe Johnson at my guard spots before I took Chris Paul and Brandon Roy. How would the team be worse off with Roy and Paul at guard as opposed to AJ and JJ? Would we not have lost more games? Is that even possible? Wouldn't it be better to have two really good players rather then one really good player and a scrub? And why can't Roy be JJ's equal? As a rookie his numbers are similar to JJ's minus 10 points per game. And Paul is in a different stratosphere then AJ.

Quote: I disagree. The foundation for success is in place. The Hawks have the first legitimate star player to build around since they had Dominique Wilkins in Joe Johnson. BTW, Joe Johnson was acquired in a trade that didn't send any players anywhere that was a salary dump. The Hawks traded two first round picks and a bit player for Joe Johnson. Along with Joe Johnson, the Hawks have a budding star in Josh Smith. Josh Smith's game has really taken off this year, and over his past 15 games, he's averaging almost 21 points and 10 rebounds per game. He's already getting some publicity as a potential All NBA Defensive Team member. Marvin Williams is another young player who is has the ability to be a star and has shown some signs of it this season. The combo of Marvin and Josh may be the best up and coming young forward tandem in the NBA. Those three players form a foundation that the Hawks haven't had since they had a young Dominique Wilkins, Doc Rivers, and Kevin Willis. I think fans are jaded on the ownership right now, and to me, that's a foolish stance to take. Steve Belkin is the guy that has caused the problems in the ownership. Michael Gearon Jr. and Bruce Levenson are terrific owners. If it weren't for them, the Joe Johnson trade would have never been pushed through. Steve Belkin is the one that blocked that because he wanted to run the team on the cheap and turn a profit off them. I think the fans should be careful when thinking the team needs knew ownership. You could get Steve Belkin, who would likely try to trade off Joe Johnson and Josh Smith before he gets his big pay day and try to run the team on the cheap at all times. He would also bring in the definition of incompetent in ML Carr and Jan Volk, the two people who would be put into place as GM and President if Belkin is to take over. I don't think the fans are being screwed. I think the fans had and continue to have unrealistic expectations considering the shape the franchise was in when this new ownership group and new management team took over. Would this team really be worse off if it had never traded for JJ? Let's say they never trade for JJ and instead of drafting Marvin and Sheldon they draft Paul and Roy. In that case they Hawks have argueably the best young backcourt in the NBA along with a collection of promising forwards (Smoove, Chill and Diaw). Heck, with the picks the Hawks gave up they could have drafted Rondo last year and potentially a Hibbert, Conley, Brewer or Green this year. And for the record, I am happy to have JJ around, but lets make that trade out to be something it is not.

Quote: I have been worrying about Woody playing our guys excessive minutes (both from a productivity standpoint as well as injury prevension) for a while. I do think that the minutes Woody has been playing JJ as a starter, Chill as a starter and J. Smith as a starter are unreasonably high. Chill is good enough to give JJ a breather so there was never a need to play JJ more than 40 minutes a game (20 of the last 25 prior to the injury). Josh Smith is backed up by the #5 pick in last years draft and a jumping jack shotblocker in Jones. He shouldn't be playing more than 40 minutes a game either (as in 10 of the last 17 games prior to his just announced back injury). Chill has also played a ton of minutes for reasons unknown to me (40+ in 8 of the last 15 prior to the injury). By way of comparison, one man team Kevin Garnett has only played 40+ in 11 of his last 29 games. Looking at the bright side of things (or is this the dark side?), at least the overworked Hawks players can rest comfortably during the playoffs.

I agree. This franchise would be more successful with better owners, management and coaching.

Unfortunately, given the ownership mess I don't see (a) why Dwight would want to go back to Atlanta and (b) how the Hawks could sign him in light of the contract restrictions imposed by the court.