Packfill

Quote: Quote: Quote: The huge problem with this is the excuse making ASG may not fire Woodson now. We were clearly headed down the tubes anyway and now that gives them another excuse. Crap. No question that that is the biggest downside of the injuries. Hopefully the owners are smart enough to see that Woodson is part of the problem rather then part of the solution. I just want them to fire BK. As long as he is around i don't see the Hawks having a real chance to compete. Agreed. That said, I have very little confidence in the ownership group so I think the problems with the franchise run right up to the top.

Quote: The huge problem with this is the excuse making ASG may not fire Woodson now. We were clearly headed down the tubes anyway and now that gives them another excuse. Crap. No question that that is the biggest downside of the injuries. Hopefully the owners are smart enough to see that Woodson is part of the problem rather then part of the solution.

Quote: Whatever it is, it doesn't appear to be any different than whatever program they had Josh Smith on. Last year people said the same things about him and this year they're all jumping in line to say "see, I told you so". Marvin will be no different. Maybe it's a lack of coaching and development, or maybe they're just young guys who need the experience to go along with practice. My guess is that these young guys are improving despite the horrible coaching.

Quote: Quote: Do you think we can trade Shelden to the Suns for our pick? Sadly - not a prayer of this happening as of today.

Quote: I was at "Indifferent Station". Got off the "Playoff Push" train weeks ago and I was just sort of in limbo. Wanted to see us do well without Joe, but wanted a shot at our top 3 pick. Now I'm completely over this season altogether and I'm letting myself be excited about the possibility of a 1-3 and a 11-14, no matter how slim that possibility may be. Tank, lose games, win the court case, win the lottery, draft a franchise big and PG, hope the thrashers playoff run convinces ownership to fire everyone and get a great GM and coach, start fresh next season with a ton of young talent and promise. Is that too much to ask? If half those things happen , heck one of those things happens, it will be a much better off-season for the Hawks then last year.

Ugh. I guess we just have to hope for the best. Do you think we can trade Shelden to the Suns for our pick?

Is the lottery (i.e., where they determine the order of picks, not make the actual picks) held before or after the players have to declare? If before, then I want all these underclassmen to hold on their decisions until we know definitively whether the Hawks have a pick or not. If the Hawks don't get a pick, here's to hoping they all stay in school!

Oden was awesome last night. Just awesome. He would make the Hawks a legit NBA team overnight. And while Florida's bigs did not do much, I do know I would rather have Horford then Shelden Williams. Horford has really good hands and coordination. Prototype power forward.

I voted point guard. Mostly because I think that a good point guard could not only upgrade that one position, but make Smoove, Chill, Marvin and even Zaza better players by improving floor spacing, setting up the offense and creating easy scoring opportunities.

Quote: Yeah he's becoming a monster. It'll be interesting to see if he can come out and get it done for the whole season next year instead of turning it on in the second half when it matters less. If he can maintain the level he's at with JJ back from the opening game we should be in good shape. I am hoping another year of experience and maturing under his belt will lead to a more consistent effort from Smoove next year. It seems each year he has had a big surge in the second half but he is slow to start the following season. This year it may just be due to injury, so I am hoping for the best. I still think a good point guard would make him an even more effective player.

Quote: I hate to be negative but it seems our Hawks are just doomed for eternity! I have no doubt we will end up with no pick in this draft. It's just the way things have gone for this franchise. I pray we can at least keep the Indy Pick but that is even looking dim right now with they are playing. O'neal is probably out the rest of the year with knee and ankle problems. The Hawks are not doomed for eternity - rather they are only doomed for as long as they have crappy owners.

Quote: I know this will not happen but we ended up with Greg Oden and Acie Law. That would be quite a draft. Right now it is assuming all the top young players are coming out. Still it is nice to dream. That would be fantastic.

Quote: Are we being too hard on him, too impatient, with unreasonable expectations? He has brought in arguably the two best players since 'Nique was shipped to Clipperland. He got us out of a horrible mess of overpaid "talent". He signed Za on the cheap, and though he's a defensive liabilty, he's a solid offensive player who's output at least matches his contract. He stole Solomon in the second round. To BossTweed's point, we're measuring him against only the perfect scenarios. As Levenson said, 11 other GM's passed on Smoove - should they be canned? The winning Memphis teams were of Billy's design - Jerry West's tenure has not been successful. As for the other drafts, yes, he's drafted the worst player of the three available. That's with hindsight, though. Chillz I beleive (I don't recall exactly) was held in similar regard to Deng/Iggy, and though he hasn't evolved on par with the other two, there's no denying he's a good player. Marvin was added at a time when it was argued that we had such a lack of talent, we needed that BPA, which he was widely considered (or at least the one with the most upside). With hindsight, the only truly inexcusable move was drafting Shelden (shudder). Also, spending $13 mil on back-up points-and neglecting time and time again to find us a starting-caliber one - is tough to stomach. Personally, I don't like most of what Billy has done, and don't think he's the right guy to continue. However, the next guy to step in will have some assets to work with. And looking back, was it ridiculous that we drafted Chillz and Marvin, or are we just saying that knowing what we do now? Levenson has said we're trying to build the right way, and it takes time (and yes, tests our patience). I want to look at this objectionably as possible - maybe we're being unreasonable? How does he stack up with other GM's who've had to tear everything down and build it back up? And if they got it right, how long did it take them? How were the winning teams in Memphis BK's design? That team never gets to the playoffs in the first place unless West comes in and hires a decent coach, trades for Mike Miller, obtains James Posey (who had a career year that year to carry that team into the playoffs). BK's entire legacy in Memphis is Gasol and Battier, an impressive draft hall to be sure, but that is it.

Thanks. Seems like the Hawks are in "good" company then. If you go back to 2000, the Hawks really have an impressive run of futility if you consider they have earned a top 6 pick in 5 of the last 7 lotteries (and it will probably be 6 of 8 after this season).

I checked, the Hawks are the only team to pick in the top six in each of the past 3 drafts. Again, I ask - does anyone know if there is another team in NBA history that has had a top 6 pick in three consecutive seasons? What about four consecutive seasons (the Hawks have likely traded away their pick but it will likely be another top 6 pick this year)? The Clippers or Bulls must have had a stretch like this?

Quote: Quote: i can understand the complaining about the Marvin pick and even the Shelden pick but the Childress pick is just nitpicking. I agree with you. I also wonder why no one ever compares our drafts to other teams? They only compare it to the best possible situation. Chris Paul, Deng and Roy. We could have had that draft, great. Who else could have had them? Why didn't they (perhaps no one else was in a situation to get them)? I think Levenson has a good point about other teams making mistakes as well. Sure, other teams may have gotten good players, but over the 3 years, do other teams have a better total package than the Hawks from a similar draft position (say the Bucks, Seattle, Toronto, Charlotte, or other teams consistently in the lottery over the past few years). BK may not be perfect, but is anyone perfect? Someone show me! Prove that whatever GM we could get after we fire BK will/can do a better job. This is interesting. Is there another team that has had a top 6 pick in each of the past three drafts? Has that every occured? It would interesting to compare to see if those other teams did end up picking a franchise player or missed on all the picks.

Quote: i think woodie might be sticking with his vets in a desperate attenpt to save his hide with a strong finish. That and to help justify his buddy BK's veteran free agent signings and trade acquisitions.

Chill is a good player, the problem is that Deng and Igoudala are future all-stars.

Quote: I want Oden for this team. Feel free to quote me 2 years, 5 years, etc. from now. Me too.

Well, Indiana lost again tonight and Minny is winning big. Alas, it appears Indy is on its way to a bottom 10 finish.

What windfall of talent? The Hawks currently only have two players (JJ and Smoove) who could be considered bona fide quality starters and three other players (Chill, Marvin and Zaza) who could be considered passable starters or solid back-ups. The rest of the roster is development projects or reclamation projects.

Well it is not like the team is winning games playing a slow half court game.

Is going from historically terrible to bad really much of an accomplishment?

While we all may disagree about BK's ability to bring in basketball players I think we can all agree that BK has an absolute awful track record in terms of hiring coaches.

I like it.