Packfill

Unfortunately, the ownership mess probably means the GM and coaching messes survive for an additional year. The success of Tim Floyd in the tournament is leaving BK as last man standing in the worst coach of all time standings. Heck even Lon Kruger is proving he can coach at some level.

Like everyone else here, I can't wait to see what Smoove becomes and see how his game matures. He is one of the few bright spots for this franchise.

That pretty much sucks because it decreases the chances that Woody and BK are fired and decreases the chances of the team making any meaningful free agent moves. Still, the young core (JJ, Smoove, Chill, Marvin and (sadly Zaza) should have enough experience next year to muster up a winning season as long as they continue to develop. I will be disappointed with anything less then 42 wins next year.

If the Hawks don't win tonight you are probably right since they will have six more losses then the current 7/8 seeds with only 15 games to play.

Quote: Welcome back Trace. I agree that Marvin will be fine. He is a 20 year old kid, what do some of you want? The guy wasn't brought up as a basketball prodigy who only thought about playing in the NBA his whole life. He is probably still intimidated by guys like JJ and Smoove because they are closer to being superstars (both JJ and Smoove) and are more outspoken and aggressive (Smoove at least) than he is at this point and that probably keeps him from trying to take over when he probably should. It's got to be hard to have a team full of players who at some point in their lives and for probably most of their lives they were the dominant player for their team and to come here is a big change for them. I have no doubt that Marvin will at some point become a breakout player but he might never be anything more than a Rashard Lewis type, which while it would be disappointing considering passing up Paul and Deron and Marvin's lofty expectations, isn't the end of the world when you pair that with 2 guys who are already at superstar status in Smoove and JJ. I think that the biggest problem we have is coaching now. I like Woody a lot but and I think he is a great mentor, but I don't think he knows how to get the most out of our kids. I think this offseason we will see a change at the position and next year there will be a focus on being more aggressive and getting out and running. The new coach won't feel a personal sense of attachment to guys like Marvin and Smoove and will push them to the max. Smoove is not a superstar yet, not even close. He certaintly has the potential, but his game has too many holes currently and he is too inconsistent to be considered a superstar as of today. He is young and he seems to have the drive so I am not worried about him.

So far Marvin has not demonstrated that he has the heart to become a franchise enabler along the lines of Garnett, LeBron, Carmelo, etc. Unless something changes, he will be a decent Rashad Lewis type but not much more. In my mind Marvin is the embodiment of BK's draft failures. Is it unfair to Marvin? Yes. So be it. When you are the number two pick in the draft coming off of a national championship expectations are high and when you do not live up to them there is going to be lots of criticism.

NJ, NY and Orlando won. Grr.

Quote: Quote: He does? What games have you watched this season to make you think that? I'm sure Shellhead is on pace to be the next Karl Malone then. What a load of crap. Shelden has nothing to do with Marvin. Since the All-Star break, Marvin (at age 20) is putting up 15/5 on 49% shooting. If NBDL players could do that vs. the highest level of competition, we'd all be getting season tickets. Chris Paul was putting up much better numbers last year at the ago of 20.

The sad thing is we are now hoping players develop and improve inspite of Woody rather then because of him.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: A team like Charlotte is a team that should tank for Oden or Durant. They don't have 3+ promising pieces of the future. We do. Um, Charlotte has Okafor, Wallace, Felton, May and Morrison. Morrison was a big mistake but the other guys are all very talented. It will be interesting to see if they resign Felton. Personally, I don't think May will be more than a mediocre pro. Felton and Okafor are very nice pieces. May seems like a Shelden-type player, in terms of ability and ceiling, in my opinion. Agreed, but I think May is better offensively while Sheldon has more potential as a defender.

Quote: Quote: I ask given the above info why wouldn't you want as many ping pong balls going into the lottery you see what it has done for the teams I mentioned above.Durant and Oden are franchise players and can put a good young team on the road to greatness. Oden and Durant are the best freshman players in the country. That doesn't mean they are can't miss future HOFers. We don't even need a can't miss future HOFer. All we need is decent starting material. We have the potential star power at the 2-4 spots. If we were 10 games out of the playoffs, and that worst record in the league was within our grasp, sure of course I'd be for tanking. I was angry when the Hawks didn't do poorly down the stretch in 2002. They had nothing to play for. No playoff chances, no young nucleus, no signs of any promise. But this is different. The playoff spot is well within grasp. We do have a young nucleus that needs all the experience they can get. We have a rising star player that we need to give all the motivation to stay on this team that we can. If we were to tank and lose Josh Smith, then what? Then the franchise is set back for another 5 years potentially. Or if we just are freaking patient and wait one more year where Marvin can have a breakout season like Smoove had this year and where Smoove can have a full season like he's had in the last couple of months, with the return of Joe Johnson, and possibly a bigger, stronger Solomon Jones, we could be a playoff team for sure next season WITHOUT Oden or Durant. A team like Charlotte is a team that should tank for Oden or Durant. They don't have 3+ promising pieces of the future. We do. Um, Charlotte has Okafor, Wallace, Felton, May and Morrison. Morrison was a big mistake but the other guys are all very talented.

Quote: Quote: Quote: After hearing the news of the Stotts firing it got me thinking... Maybe instead of blowing up our team every three years it would be a good idea to get a coach who isn't retarded. I mean maybe it wouldn't be such a bad option to entertain. The one constant in our 8 consecutive loosing seasons has been coaches who can't count to 10. Just a thought Agree 100%. For all the heat we give BK, historically his absolute worst moves have been the coaches he hires. When you look at the success of a team like Toronto (I say success in a relative term) which is not more talented then the Hawks, it makes you wonder. I would love to see what Jerry Sloan or Pops could do with this team. How do you get blown out by a team that just had a 17 game losing streak? I know they have PP now, but he isn't the difference maker he was. Years of bad coaching and bad drafting catching up to the Hawks?

Quote: After hearing the news of the Stotts firing it got me thinking... Maybe instead of blowing up our team every three years it would be a good idea to get a coach who isn't retarded. I mean maybe it wouldn't be such a bad option to entertain. The one constant in our 8 consecutive loosing seasons has been coaches who can't count to 10. Just a thought Agree 100%. For all the heat we give BK, historically his absolute worst moves have been the coaches he hires. When you look at the success of a team like Toronto (I say success in a relative term) which is not more talented then the Hawks, it makes you wonder. I would love to see what Jerry Sloan or Pops could do with this team.

Jefferson has been an awesome pick-up for my fantasy team.

I think Dwight Howard, Al Jefferson and Josh Smith will emerge as the tops guys from that draft. Dwight is clearly number one will a bullet so far and Okafor, Gordon, Deng and Igoudala are still in the mix.

Quote: no, it's no different. It's only different because you've already made up your mind that he will be a dominant player at the next level. You aren't looking at the history of the NBA, which has emphatically taught us that college stats don't guarantee success in the NBA. How many players have put up GREAT numbers in college, gotten drafted high and then fizzled? A lot more than have made an impact in the NBA. The fact that you compare a guy who is doing it in the NBA now, to a college kid who is simply putting up great numbers in college shows that you buy the hype. That's perfectly fine, but it's also no different than (except for stats) the situation that surrounded Marvin in his draft year. Well, Carmelo is the last freshmen to play at a level equal to Durant so I am not sure why that is not a good comparison while someone like Marvin, who was a back-up in college, is a good comparison. But in general you are right, we do not not with certainty which college stars will emerge as professional stars. That said, far more college stars become professional stars then college roll players that become professional stars.

Quote: First off, it's never too early to be drinking. Second, college developed isn't pro developed and that's a fact. He's not Shaq or Duncan, two of the most fully developed college players to enter the NBA in recent history. So he still has a lot of things to improve on at the next level. He's an excellent college level talent who has a lot of potential to be very good, maybe even great, at the NBA level. I haven't read everything written about the guy, but I know I haven't read anything where the writer is stating that this guy is going to dominate the NBA, much less from d day 1. So yes, his draft status is based on his skill set + his potential to get better, as it is with nearly every player who goes pro. Shaq was only a "fully developed" prospect in the sense he was physically superior to everyone else. He was not close to as skilled as he subsequently became. To say Durant is no different then Marvin is laughable. You can definitely argue that Durant is no different then Carmelo, but given Carmelo's production I don't see why Durant would not then be worth the hype.

I think there are valid arguments on both sides. Alot of this stems from the ownership mess. That really buts a big question mark on the teams ability to compete - particularly in terms of bringing in quality free agents and making meaningful trades. I also think some less then stellar drafting and some terrible coaching are responsible for the team not winning many games. All that said, the East is so pitiful this year that a team more then 10 games under .500 has a realistic shot at the playoffs. Getting into the playoffs would be great, but I am not sure I can get that excited because the team is still far from being good - even further from being a true championship contender. As such, I understand and appreciate the tanking argument in that being in position to draft an Oden or Durant is the best way this team can position itself as a championship contender moving forward. At the same time, there is a bunch of young talent on this team already and it needs to mature. Winning now helps that. Smoove's development in particular is better then I could have hoped for. Making the playoffs this year probably helps build confidence of these young players. In the long run, however, I think changes need to be made to turn this team into a legit contender. This team desperately needs someone who can create easy scoring chances for others and also desperately needs a big man who can lock down opponents big men (this will be critical in the playoffs). We shall see. My number one hope for the team is that Woody and BK are sent packing this off-season.

Collison looked good to me the one time I saw him. I liked Farmar alot too, if Collison can step up like Farmar in the tourney that I would be thrilled if the Hawks got him.

Quote: 'And that is part of the reason that Smoove is as good as he is this year. The last half of his rookie season he played almost every minute. Sad part is that it should've been happening all along. There is a desperateness to Woody playing JJ so much that eventaully caught up with him. Makes me think that he does not know how to develop a TEAM, let alone individual talents. I tend to agree. I also think JJ has to get others - Smoove in particular - involved so that he does not have to carry the load. Playing 40 minutes a night will shorten his career.

The point is that it was wrong for BK to try and fill a position of critical need (1) with a guy who was a career back-up with a long list of medical issues and (2) it was a huge mistake to put the team in a position to have to fill such a critical through free agency when the free agent cupboard was bare. It did not take a psychic to figure out that the point guard market was paper thin last off-season - considering the two "best" guys were an extremely over the hill former malcontent and an off-injured career back-up that has bounced around the league. Good players by and large are not playing for their 5th team by the time they are 28 years old.

In fairness to Speedy, it is obvious that his injuries are responsible for his poor play this season. That said, his injury history should have been a major red flag to Billy Knight. You can make the argument that the Hawks needed a point guard and that Speedy was one of the better ones available, but that argument is without merit in light of (1) Speedy's injury history and (2) the fact that BK painted the Hawks into a point guard-less corner last off-season rather then correcting that deficiency through the draft or a trade. Sadly, Speedy remains the most talented point guard on the Hawks roster.

Quote: I love his attitude. I hope he stays off it and waits until next season. Next year's coach (hopfully not Woody) needs to knock JJ's minutes down to about 37 a game. We need to acquire a backup sg in the offseason that can shoot and play a little d that can back JJ up. I think someone like Keith Bogans or Derek Anderson would be a decent backup who can play some minutes for us at teh SG, would not hurt us while he is on the floor and would come cheap. It would also mean no Salim! Josh Childress?

Quote: Quote: Things are looking bad. Pacers are 2 games ahead of NY which has the 10th worst record on Thursday morning. They are playing so bad that it'll be hard to keep them out of bottom 10. So, correct me if i'm wrong, the pick is top ten protected right? So if their pick is 9th or 10th they still keep it this year. That is what I thought. Wow, the Hawks could get totally shut out of the draft.

Quote: Quote: If the Hawks win the lottery then Oden makes signing Morris unnecessary - besides the team does not want 3 rookies on the roster. I disagree. What is wrong with having two young 7 footers? Worst case scenario, we have a solid backup. Down the road, if Morris turns out to be above average, then he would carry a lot of value in a potential trade. If he is just there to sign and we don't have to win any lottery to get him, I think we have to do it. Lets put it this way - we would be lucky to get either of them. If Morris is the real deal then he probably will command a handsome contract. I am not sure the ownership situation will permit the team to enter into such a contract.