Packfill

Don't worry, Boston and Portland could make deals for veteran retreads too!

With the acquisition of aging career backup point guard Anthony Johnson the Hawks no longer are the youngest team in the NBA, assuming no other veteran is traded away.

Hopefully BK can get something done. If the trade is for someone like Anthony Johnson I will be disappointed since it is a lateral move at best.

Quote: Quote: I also think we would look at some kind of impotent deal like an Anthony Johnson. That is the kind of deal which we specialize. The band aid kind of deal that doesn't get anybody pumped about anything. I wish we could dump Claxton because I don't like watching gutless players. Maybe the Cavs are desperate enough. Or the Heat. I will bet when JJ signed here they told him they would be aggressive and try to win big. He is now going public and wants to see some action. and i'm actually glad to see him do so. i think ownership realizes that Joe is the face of the franchise and that if he's not happy, the fans will be even more unhappy (especially since we sent quite a bit over for him[althoughworthit]). after hearing that we're last in 3 point shooting, it would really be nice to get a shooter in there too. of course a point guard that can shoot would be even better but just a role player like a brent barry can be a small boost. I am not sure adding a guy like Brent Barry makes sense at this time. He is definitely the type of guy the Hawks need coming off the bench (and the type of veteran the team should be targeting in the off-season) but right now the Hawks need to use whatever trade capital they have to address the starting point guard and center positions. My thinking is, that if they are going to do a mid-season trade, do a real trade and bring in someone who can start. Then in the off-season sign or trade for smart veterans to use off the bench.

Quote: How to fix the Hawks: 1) Fire BK and Woody and get a GM who can draft and a coach who can properly motivate/teach our young players 2) Trade Marvin and/or Shelden and get a PG and C to balance out the team 3) Start Chillz at the 3 4) Lock up JSmoove long term and if all else fails have the NBA force the Atlanta Spirit group to sell the team to Arthur Blank "at cost"!! That is a good list. Only thing is the number 1 thing that needs to happen is a resolution of the ownership situation. That is number one with a bullet. Without it, nothing else happens.

Quote: Nice boxout by Shelden on Duncan to end the half.. Bad teams, and poorly coached teams, do not do the little things that enable you to consistently win games.

Quote: well we are top half for defense so far this year and that includes having more injuries to top-7 than most any other team this year and chill/speedy/smoove are 3 of our best defenders and were all out for 10+ games...and shelden, our best post defender, has been injured for 80% of the season Question: Can a team that is firmly entrenched in the bottom third of the league in terms of opposition field goal percentage be considered a top defensive team? Answer: No. Question: Can a team that is in the bottom half of the league in terms of rebound percentage be considered a top defensive team? Answer: No Question: How can anyone say with a straigt face that the Hawks are a good defensive team? Answer: ????

The difference is Smoove is a 17th pick who has surprised and Marvin is a number 2 pick that has disappointed and been totally outplayed by several lower picks. Who is guarding Ginobili - or attempting to guard him?

Who is guarding Ginobili?????

Quote: no, i'm not interested in orien greene. he played here in gainesville(UF) before transferring to i think stjohns/josephs or something....is a friend of my coworker...his big addition would be defense...imagine a wing player with good defense but his offense needed work...not sure if anything has changed the last year or two. Thanks. Thorpe's chat made it sound like Greene had potential to be a starting point guard. He is 6'4" and if he plays good defense he at least fits the mold.

Thanks. That gives the numbers alot more context. Marvin does seem comparable to Rashard Lewis on a per minute basis. Not sure if that is a good thing.

Quote: Many are calling Marvin out for his percieved lack of development in this his 2nd year. He is 20 years old. Will not be 21 until June. He is the same age as Kobe, Rashard Lewis, Garnett, and McGrady were in their 2nd years in the NBA. Granted the guys above came right out of HS and were rookies at 19, but that is the same age as Marvin was. Marvin was a freshman at UNC at the age of 18, the same age the named above were when seniors in High School. So at 18 he was winning a national title as UNC's sixth man while the others were in HS at 18. Marvin was still 3 months from 19 after winning the national title at UNC. Of course all scouts and many on this board already knew this. Considering this, I think it is fair to judge his development based on their career paths in their first 3 years. Good developmental measuring stick so to speak. (Remember Marvin started the year with protection on his broken hand.) PPG RPG APG BPG Marvin: 8.5 4.8 .8 .3 11.9 4.7 1.9 .5 Lewis: 2.4 1.3 .2 0 8.2 4.1 .9 .4 14.8 6.9 1.6 .6 Bryant: 7.6 1.9 1.3 .3 15.4 3.1 2.5 .5 19.9 5.3 3.8 1.0 McGrady: 7.0 4.2 1.5 1.0 9.3 5.7 2.3 1.4 15.4 6.3 3.3 1.9 Garnett: 7.0 4.2 1.5 1.0 17.0 8.0 3.1 2.1 18.5 9.6 1.8 1.8 Garnett and Kobe were the quickest to develope and are probably the best 2 players of the bunch. McGrady is not far behind, being in Vince's shadow in Torronto held McGrady's develpoment back more than anything. Rashard Lewis is not in their superstar category but is an allstar. Marvin is developing faster the Rashard Lewis. I don't think many expected Marvin to ever be on par with Kobe or Garnett. He will probably wind up developing into a player that is between McGrady and Lewis. He is less athletic then McGrady but slightly bigger. He is slightly shorter then Lewis but thicker at this point in his carrer. Has more of Rashard Lewis's game buit Marvin is more aggresive then Rashard was at this point in their careers. Summary: If Marvin turns out to be equal to Rashard Lewis I would be a little dissapointed but its not a killer. I expect him to develop into a player slightly beter then Rashard Lewis. Hopefully a more aggressive Rashard Lewis with more muscle and more rebounding. Food for thought. This would be more helpful if you included the minutes each of these gentlemen played.

I am not sure how credible Thorpe is, and he is obviously biased, but he indicated that people have a high opinion of Orien Greene. Anyone one else have intel on Greene? Could the Hawks trade Lue for Greene (maybe the Pacers could use Lue for the playoffs?)? Probably a long shot but I do think the Hawks need to bring in a young point guard with starter potential to hopefully replace Speedy in the near future. I would also look into dumping Medvedenko and grabbing Loren Woods. Can't hurt.

Quote: Bingo. For whatever reason though, Billy Knight will never get the credit he deserves. He built the foundation that took the Memphis Grizzlies to the playoffs. Jerry West has done nothing as the President/GM in Memphis to further what BK was building. All Jerry has done is kill his team's depth with poor drafting decisions and bad long term contracts. Now, Jerry is getting out of the mess he created after tearing down everything that BK was building. You won't ever hear anyone criticize Jerry West though, unless you listen to Ronald Tillery on 560 AM out of Memphis in the mornings. What exactly did BK build in Memphis? If you think building a flawed foundation for a borderline playoff team is worthy of accolades then maybe you have something, but otherwise . . .

I agree, Telfair is not demonstrated that he can be a full time starter. I rather have Rondo.

Quote: Quote: Roy is not a true PG. Not close. How many minutes to the Hawks play with a backcourt of JJ and Chill? quite a lot, and Roy is more of a pg than both of them. When Chill was out you were posting that he wouldn't get more than 20 minutes per game when he came back. Wrong. Now you are trying to say Roy wouldn't get many minutes if he was here. Wrong again. You can always find minutes for players that produce. I would argue that Roy is a better "point guard" then any of Chill, JJ, Salim and Ivey. He is a better overall player then Speedy and argueably has more potential then Speedy as a true point guard. Clearly he is not in the same caliber as true point guards like Nash, Kidd, Deron and Paul, but the Hawks management has already deemed such a player unimportant to the team. Oh, and he would fetch a lot more in a trade then Shelden. For all those who will be crying for Javaris Crittendon, well . . .

I have to agree with Walter here. I would much rather watch well coached, smart basketball played as a team sport rather then poorly coached street ball with a few fancy dunks thrown in.

Quote: well we are top half for defense so far this year and that includes having more injuries to top-7 than most any other team this year and chill/speedy/smoove are 3 of our best defenders and were all out for 10+ games...and shelden, our best post defender, has been injured for 80% of the season I love the optimism but the reality is Sheldon is still an unknown quantity, Chill is a solid defender but not much more, Speedy is good when healthy but that is rare and Smoove still needs to fine tune his post defense. The team gives up relatively few points because the play at a very slow pace due to the absence of anyone who can push the tempo.

Quote: yeah it's strange; we have the worst offense in the league based on ppg and we are one of the better defensive teams...u wouldn't think that would be a recipe for excitement, yet this team is so much fun to watch...sooooo much better than the pre-bk team To call the Hawks one of the better defensive teams is a little misleading.

Quote: going .500 wouldn't be 'catching fire' for us considering we've been >.500 for the past 1.5 months... we were also >.500 to start the year only when we've had 2+ players injured have we been Well then now is the time for this team to prove you right!

Quote: I noticed at the bottom of insidehoops.com it said, "Is Andrew Bynum really a building block? He's no lock to make future All-Star teams, at all." Now that was a sportswriter saying that but do you think it's possible the Lakers part with him? Throw Claxton their way and maybe Lo also? Some vets to help with their playoff push? I don't think they will but it'd be nice to see. Then we could still trade for Ridnour with our Indy 1st and we'd have a pretty decent team with more potential still there. We would be stupid not to do a deal like that. The Lakers would be stupid for doing it. Even though Bynum is far from consistent at this point he is still better the Lo and the Lakers are missing their other two centers.

Quote: Your last post was thanking JJ and Smoove. Well, we have JJ and Smoove thanks to guess who ? Knight Funny how you diss Knight and then in the next breath praise him without even realizing you did it. So does he get credit for that ? I feel like this board is such a broken record. Wa, Wa, Wa. So tired of the whining & finger pointing. In case you have not noticed the team is improving. Speedy and Lo are big parts in that. Ever since Lo was put in the starting line up we start a 5 game road winning trip. Speedy playing / Lo starting and the win streak are no coincidence either. In the off season the Hawks glaring holes were interior defense and a point gard / leadership void. If these holes were not plugged with something,the whole ship would sink. Honestly, without Sheldon, Lo and Speedy the Hawks would have maybe won one of the 5 consective road victories they just completed. Josh has been in foul trouble alot lately. Guess who has his back - Sheldon. Sheldon keeps the other teams from having a layup / dunk drill the second Smoove steps off the floor in 4th quarter crunch time due to his chronic foul trouble. In my opinion the holes were plugged with the best free agents and pick available. Of course we could have traded young developing talent for other hole pluggers. That would have made fans even more upset. We could have drafted guys with more potential than Sheldon. Problem is that Roy and Foy would not see the court enough to show it for the Hawks thanks to JJ and Chils. Guess what, the whole board would then by whining about how Knight should have drafted more wing players. No matter what happens, fans expect instant results. Well, in reality this does not happen. The Hawks are the youngest team in the NBA and are showing improvement each year. I love the team situation and give Knight props for what he has accomplished given what he has to work with, (ownership situation). Sure, the response is Knight should signed this guy, or that guy. Easy to say without knowing ifthis guy or that guy cared anything about playing here. If the Hawks can tread water for this brutal shedule coming up --no one on this board should be complaining about a thing. I think Exodus was pointing out that even bad GM's make a few good deals. Heck, Isiah Thomas drafted David Lee. The fact that BK has made two good moves during his tenure does not exuse his over-all poor performance and inability to put a winning product on the court in 4 years at the controls.

Quote: We will know in a hurry how serious a contender we really are...the next 7 games are BRUTAL. If we can somehow win 3 or 4 games in this stretch we may become a factor. If we lose 6 or 7 we probably are done. Tonight is a big game. Agreed, but it is up to the team. If they want to consider themselves as playoff contenders then now is the time to show it.

For the first time in a long time the Hawks have a chance to be relevant in the world of professional basketball. There is no reason why they should not be able to play at least .500 ball the rest of the season. I do think the playoffs remain slightly out of reach, but I just want the games at the end of the season to be meaningful for a change.

Basically, the Bulls are in the position now the Hawks will be in in a year or two. Good enough to make the playoffs but not quite good enough to really make a run at a title - but, in saying that, they do have some interesting pieces that, with the right deal, could yield a true championship contender.