Packfill

Quote: Quote: I think the Bulls will break and get Gasol. I think it will be Gordon, Nocioni, and either Tyrus or Sefolosha. They aren't even remotely close to a title without some low post scoring. They will see the light before the deadline. I think that is a very realistic trade package (although Brown still needs to be included) - although I suspect it would be Memphis who would have to break to take that package. I would guess Memphis is asking for more right now. Gordon, Nocioni and Thomas would be a pretty sweet return for Memphis, particularly if Thomas amounts to something. Problem for them is that they would be like the Hawks with great young forwards (Thomas, Gay, Warrick, Miller and Nocioni) a good scoring guard and then nothingness at point and center (unless Lowry emerges, which could definitely happen).

Woody is giving Marvin every opportunity to be that guy - I think that is one of the reasons why he has played so many minutes lately. Hopefully Marvin takes off like Rudy Gay has, then the Hawks will really be dangerous.

Quote: i'd rather pay big money to smoove than glen "big dog" robinson. I doubt you could find anyone that disagrees with that statement. That initial big dog trade set the franchise back several years.

Unfortunately the Hawks ownership situation limits their ability to use the cap space so that is not a substantive difference between the teams. Plus, the Hawks will have to pay big money to Smoove and at least decent money to retain Chill in the near future. Then Marvin after that . . .

I am not sure how the Hawks position is much different then the Nets. The Nets have lost two of their prominent players for the season.

Quote: We can argue all year long about all the things that have happened in between, but sometimes it's pleasant to think back to the situation three years ago: The Hawks were capped out, not necessarily young, and decidedly mediocre. (They were 18-35 at this time in 2004). Then, in one fell swoop, all three of those things were changed. They were looking at some real cap space, frighteningly inexperienced, and decidely sucky. Now, three years later, the Hawks sit with a better record, still have some cap space, and have a TON of young, promising talent. It's a better day to be a Hawks' fan. (All apologies to SAR & Company). Of course, the Hawks remain frighteningly inexperienced and decidedly sucky three years later. Oh, and the ownership situation has gone from bad to worse of all time. On the positive side, there is some young promising talent.

Quote: Quote: Okur has really broken out. After that contract in Utah, he didnt play all that great and there were rumors of an overpaid bust. But this year he has played very well. And he kills us every time with those threes. I thought Utah was desperate to sign this fat lazy dude from Turkey, a country which has never produced any legit big man. Utah also overpaid Boozer at that time and he turned out as a gem too. I wonder how much credit should go to Sloan and the system. Sloan is a very good coach. Wish we had that in Atlanta. That and Deron.

Quote: Pretty funny. We have someone who wouldn't part with Lue for Camby. Priceless. I couldn't believe that either. Why would Denver trade Camby for two complete scrubs? That trade would never happen regardless of whether they were trying to resolve a cap problem - it would still take more.

Good to hear. If they don't come to play I hope Woody mans up and pulls both to teach them a lesson. At this point though I think Woody's bark is a lot worse then his bite.

Quote: I would rather he not play in the all star game. More time to get some rest and also allow him to play with a little chip on his shoulder for not getting invited to the game in the first place. I tend to agree. He is playing so many minutes he needs some rest or he risks running out of gas late in the season.

That sucks. If BK had pulled off that deal and drafted either Deron or Paul instead of Marvin this team would be on the fast track to the playoffs. As it is, I am very curious to see what BK does this off-season to balance off the roster and fill the wholes at center and point guard.

I think Portland has done a very good job of assembling young talent with Roy, Aldridge, Jack, Sergio, Webster and Outlaw.

I remember early on before that draft people were talking about Josh Smith being a consideration with the 6th pick. Once he fell to 17 I thought drafting him was a no brainer, if for no other reason the local appeal after missing out on Dwight.

Thank goodness that at least for that one fateful 17th pick Billy Knight made the obvious call and selected Josh Smith. Too bad the rest of his selections have been off the reservation.

Is Nash playing? I thought he was injured earlier in the week.

Quote: I actually think we are built to run even more than them. You could argue that Speedy, JJ, Marvin, and SMoove is a more athletic group that Marion, Stoudemire, Diaw, and Nash. We have some serious athleticism on this team that goes to waste in our halfcourt offense. The only thing that worries me is the same thing that worries me anytime we play a team of the Suns caliber, the refs. You know we're going to come to play. JJ is especially going to come to the play. But with the Suns having so few losses, you know the refs aren't going to call the game fair and square. The biggest concern is BS calls against Smoove. We absolutely need him in this game. Im afraid if he gets a clean block on Marion or Stoudemire the refs will blow the whistle anyway everytime. Being a "running" team has alot more to do with the abilities of the players then their athletic abilities. Magic was no greyhound yet he led one of the most impressive running games in league history. Like Magic, Nash doesn't have to be able to run faster then Speedy or anyone else because he is smarter.

Quote: Quote: With the way Josh Smith is playing for the Hawks, Sheldon is a career backup for the Hawks. Not sure that a number 5 pick makes sense for a back-up to the teams best young player. Any possibility at all that we might trade Marvin or Shelden Williams for a pick / player this year? I am guessing they won't do that this year as they will use the second half to figure out what they have with these youngster. This offseason, however, if team should consider trading some of the overlapping pieces for a solid point guard or center. Teams like Boston and Portland are in a similar position - i.e., they have collected talented young players but need to moves pieces around to really build a team.

With the way Josh Smith is playing for the Hawks, Sheldon is a career backup for the Hawks. Not sure that a number 5 pick makes sense for a back-up to the teams best young player.

Quote: Quote: He has likely missed on three lottery picks (meaning, better players were available when the Hawks selected). if that is the definition of missing, then put pretty much EVERY gm in the league in that category everyone who didn't take smoove 3rd-16th missed on their lottery pick a few years ago everyone who didn't take redd after about pick 5 or so until 2nd round missed a few years before that amare went 9th in his draft... etc etc You missed the point entirely. In each instance BK did not take the best available lottery talent. None of the picks were slam dunk picks and in each instance there were several other players that should have been in consideration for those picks. BK choose the wrong one in each instance. No one bats 1.000, but you have to get a hit sometime or you are going back to the minors.

1. BK - He may have the worst record of any GM in the history of professional basketball. That says something regardless of circumstances. His best pick was a non-lottery selection. He has likely missed on three lottery picks (meaning, better players were available when the Hawks selected). He is terrible. He wrongly assumed JJ could play the point. His free agent signings have been mediocre at best. The point guard (to you honestly expect Speedy to stay healthy based on his career?) and center positions on this team remain a mess. - The Marvin pick was a bad pick. Turns out that Paul and Deron are the superstars from this draft. Hopefully Marvin proves me wrong on this. The thing I do not understand is everyone says he is a project yet the reason he was such a good prospect is that he had advanced skills. How does this make sense? Smoove is a project because he had no obvious NBA skills other then athleticism. Marvin was supposed to bring a polished game. - Sheldon was picked much too early. If BK and the rest of the Hawks management envisioned Smoove as a power forward last year then spending a lottery pick on a back-up does not make sense. If they plan on playing him at center - why don't they? He can't be worse then Zaza and Lo (Lo in particular). - Chill is a good player, but not as good as Deng or Iggy and he will always be compared to the two during his career. So not a bad pick, but another lottery pick on a back-up player. Not ideal. - Smoove was a great pick. I do not give BK any real props for this pick though because it was a TOTALLY OBVIOUS PICK. Seriously, why would any Atlanta GM not select the local prodigy? I could have made that pick. Babcock would have made that pick. That said, best move BK has made as GM of the Hawks. - I actually liked the Speedy signing with the caveat that they bring in someone to groom behind him. Unfortunately, Speedy's injury history is extensive and the Hawks might not be able to rely on him in the long run. Equally unfortunate is that the Hawks seemed to get him after he had a career year. I would love him as a back-up though. - The Wright signing was a waste. I believe most NBA people could have confirmed that he was toast. I would rather the minutes go to Sheldon or Jones. - Zaza is a fine back-up, just not starting material. Many people on this board realized it last year. BK should have as well. - JJ trade was a good trade. It was not a steal. Phoenix has gotten better since JJ has left so I doubt they have any regrets. Could BK have gotten JJ for less? Maybe. Second best move of the BK tenure. 2. Woodson is a terrible coach. He should be replaced this off-season. There is no rhyme nor reason to his substitution patterns or his game planning. There is no offensive system. 3. As for the Marvin debate, I have always been of the opinion that the Hawks should have drafted one of the point guards. I wanted Paul. This was where I lost faith in BK. Could be a franchise killer. Smoove and Childress would be better players with Paul or Deron because of the easy scoring opportunities each would get as a result of their superior passing abilities. 3. I expected more from Sheldon. Yes he is a rookie but he is as experienced as any rookie. 4 year starter for big time program. He had more pressure on him every night at Duke then he does now. He better at least be a Reggie Evans or Udonis Haslem (guys you can get in the second round or as free agents). No need to respond to the rest. As far as the playoffs, after stripping this team bear and enduring multiple terrible seasons BK said he would build this team the right way - so that it could be a championship caliber team. Unfortunately, he has not delivered. He can redeem himself this off-season but I doubt it. We need to trade some of the young talent for an established interior defender (i.e., a starting caliber center, not a washed up Magloire.). This team may compete for a playoff spot with the current roster, but it is unlikely to compete for a championship because it does not play good defense and the offense is to reliant on jump shots. In the playoffs the defensive intensity is much higher and the team will not get open looks. A good point guard would help create easy shots for our athletes and maximize the talents of guys like Smoove and Childress.

Quote: Quote: I think the Hawks are coming to a 'crossroads' with Childress. He is not an 'energy' player... Maxiell in Detroit is an energy player...Monte Ellis in Golden State is an 'energy' player..Gerald Wallace of Charlotte is an 'energy' player..Desmond Mason of Charlotte or JR Smith of Denver are 'energy' players... Childress has a good game every once in awhile, but too many times he is often passive offensively and ghost on defense more times than not... He has been in the league nearly four years and still needs to gain another 10 to 15 pounds...Childress is a soft player who gets push around too much and his offensive game doesn't put very much pressure on opposing defenses..in terms of drawing fouls and/or getting to the free throw line.. Childress hasn't shown he is the 'future' here in Atlanta, and his passivity negates some of the things he occassionally does well.. Childress isn't the sole problem, but he is a FORMER TOP 10 pick who is playing 28 to 35 minutes a game and starting on a nightly basis... and often he is absent when the game is 'on the line' or in doubt... you are completely wrong....chill's passitivity isn't even close to a problem on this team. and yes, he is an energy guy..i'm not sure if you're looking for a guy to come in and bounce off the walls but Chill does come in and do good things for the team. he passed it to an open guy last night. HE WAS OPEN. i can't beleive we're now bashing chill.. the fans of this team suck. every member of this team has been bashed now (yes i've even seen jj bashed)...ridiculous. When you have one of the worst teams in the league what do you expect? As Hawks fans, most of us are sick and tired of the losing. It has been years since the team was competitive. The team is young, fine. But being a fan does not mean turning a blind eye to what is wrong with this team, including the terrible ownership situtation, bad coaching, poor drafting and slow player development.

If it is effective why doesn't Woodson utilize this line-up more often? I may not agree with the decision to draft Sheldon but I do realize he is better then the other centers currently on the roster - or at least could be better based on his college career. I would really like someone within the Hawks organization to explain the value of giving minutes to two mediocre (at best) players over the teams lottery pick, a guy who was deemed the most ready NBA prospect in the draft.

Quote: sheldon runs the court, plays low post defense, and stops most players that try to bully in the lane. the only players that had their way with him were howard, jefferson, okafor and bosh and they have their way with everybody. last year before he got here jameer nelson was getting layup drills on us. this year he doesn't get past 15 pts in any game. the only PG to have his way was TJ ford and calderon and that was when speedy and lue were both just getting back from injuries and were unable to slow them down before sheldon could get a chance at getting in the lane. to say that sheldon doesn't help in terms of being a defensive threat is absurd and would get shot down immediately if you talked to anyone close to the NBA. just because he doesn't send balls to the fifth row like josh smith doesn't mean he doesn't play defense. Even if he does all those things you say, he still was a bad pick because he can only do those things as a 15 minute per game back-up since one of the other first round draft picks in in front of him on the depth chart. Seriously, do you sit Smoove to give Sheldon minutes? Can you play an undersized power forward (Smoove) and an undersized center (Sheldon) at the same time for any extended period of time? If so, why have they not done so this year given how badly Zaza and Lo have played? I am not trying to flame, just looking for anwers.

Quote: It's not like they are trying to get rid of him, that's just how Avery is. Exactly. Avery is an example of a good coach not afraid to bench a struggling youngster. Woodson is an example of a bad coach.

There in lies the problem. The Hawks need another veteran who can come in and be a key piece of the team, not a part timer like Lo, Speedy and Lue. Those guys are all great as back-ups but the Hawks need another leader in the starting lineup.