Packfill

Billups would help.

There is no question the coaching and game-planning are sub-optimal. This probably has a lot to do with having the worst ownership situation in the history of professional sports.

Quote: Quote: Post scoring? I can solve that problem right now. Marvin+Ind pick = Pau Gasol. Problem Solved Speedy JJ Smoove Pau Zaza =Playoff Push I bet they want more than that, but the Hawks should be putting that deal and similar deals on the table. Agreed.

I absolutely agree that a real point guard would positively impact the team - particularly the production of Smoove, Childress and Sheldon. Unfortunately, Speedy is too injury prone to rely on and Lue lacks true point guard skills. Maybe they will make a run at Billups in the off-season?

Hollinger and TexasPete are right in that this team can only go so far while it remains dependent on jump shooting. Some of you may call that "hate," but I think it is an objective criticism about the construct of the team. If it is possible to trade for a legit big man (i.e., Gasol, J. O'Neal, Okafor, Garnett, Bosh, etc.) and not give up either JJ or Smoove then I think you absolutely pull the trigger right now or at any time thereafter. Other then that, a midseason trade probably does not make a lot of sense unless it is a minor deal where the Hawks unload a Tyronne Lue or something for a draft pick. All that being said, I do believe BK has to address the post deficiencies this off-season if not before.

Quote: Quote: Prediction: This will turn into a "Duke players suck" and "BK is a bad GM" thread. We may even get a bit of "shoulda taken Paul" before it's through. Duke sucks. I would like to see Shelden get healthy rather than these 10 minute nights from him that we have been seeing of late. Agreed on the getting healthy part. Why not sit him for 10-15 games if it allows him to get healthy? I do think he was a bad pick though, especially since he now seems destined to be a back-up for his remaining days as a Hawk. Realistically, even if he is a great defender he will still not see more then 15 minutes or so a game backing up Smoove. So yes I understand the Hawks need interior defense but the reality is the guy the Hawks drafted to provide that interior defense will only be seeing limited minutes behind Smoove. so how does this help the Hawks? If he could play center wouldn't Woodson already be playing him at center? In this light, Roy makes alot more sense because even if he is not a point guard he is better then any of the pretenders the hawks currently are using at that position. Speedy could be better but he cannot be relied on as a starter due to his frequent trips to the disabled list.

In this day and age, 4 years at a major college program playing a significant role is as "NBA ready" as you can get. I am not sure who from the last draft class could be labeled more NBA ready then Sheldon. Hopefully it is the injury that is holding him back.

Quote: And that's the reason they would probably be rejected as invalid! Belkin set this entire thing up for failure with the partnership, IMHO. He allowed the other partners to paint themselves into a corner, knowing all the time where this would end. He wants full control. He wants it all for himself. He set the trap. The other partners obediently fell exactly where he intended them to be from the start. The entire thing has been set up where he wanted it, in the state he wanted, the court he wanted and under the people he wanted to hear it with him and his very sharp law team to handle everything. And representing the rest of the partnership? I don't know, but I do know, they must be very good and know how to handle / work this entire thing or they are dead. Weird stuff, to say the least. Greymule, the problem is that the courts will not be sympathetic to a bunch of rich guys who were outsmarted by another rich guy. Both sides are sophisticated parties with expensive legal teams on their sides. Being dump or hiring bad attorneys is not grounds to obviate the terms of the agreement. Courts will always look first to the actual words of the agreement (i.e., what lies within the "four corners" of the document) before considering course of dealing and other interpretitive issues. ASG screwed themselves. Sad but true. The ultimate reality is the best case scenario is that neither the ASG or Belkin ends up with control of the franchise when the dust settles. Hopefully one side wins and the other can't afford to maintain control so has to sell a controlling interest to an owner with half a brain.

He is a shooting guard so probably not a big need for him to come over.

Quote: Quote: I know that but what I'm saying is if he becomes a RFA some team will offer him a HUGE deal that our ownership may not want to match. The reality is that RFA's don't get offers very often. The following players got no offers from other teams when they became RFAs Gooden Wilcox Daly Chandler Plus there has to be a team that needs a forward and is far enough under the cap that they can actually make a big offer. Harrington was unrestricted yet he got no offers from teams under the cap. Smith is arguably already better then all those guys, and has more upside. Somebody will be tempted to give him a max contract given how he is playing right now. If the ownership mess does result in Josh Smith getting away then I am done as a Hawks fan.

They both suck, why bother?

What exactly does 35 wins prove? That the team is still bad?

Quote: sheldon should be on the team before paul millsap for sure I bet the big numbers Millsap put up in Boozer's absence the past week pushed him ahead of Sheldon.

Quote: I think the record with Lo starting is more reflective of the fact that JJ, Josh Children, Marvin Williams and Josh Smith are healthy since he has been starting. Agreed.

Quote: Quote: So what I am hearing is that we are going to get Andre Miller and put 10 million dollars of PG on the bench? Not likely. Our PG position is set for the forseeable future. We just need to live with it. We won't be able to get a big man that is not a stiff, because people don't tend to give them up. Our only trade options is to trade our young swingmen for a more reliable swingman, i.e. Marvin for Maggette. Lakers would gladly take Lue from us. We could even get some consolation prize from them. Give Lue a few more games and he'll be back at full strength. I would happily do Lue for Jordan Farmer. Problem is, the Lakers would not do that deal.

The Hawks are finally playing better. This can be attributed mostly to finally being healthy. Speedy is still out but given his career you can't really count on him anyway. So this raises the question: The Hawks may improve but they still don't have the personnel to really compete in the playoffs. Big holes remain at the starting center and point guard positions. How do the Hawks fill these positions assuming they lose their pick this year to the Suns? The Indy pick may help but that would just add more youth. The Hawks need veterans. Does anyone think the Hawks front office will even be able to make the necessary moves to complete the roster this off-season?

I would love to get Gasol for any combination of the guys you mentioned, but in reality we have nothing Memphis would want. They have Gay and Warrick at forward and the only thing the Hawks have to trade are forwards. Too bad our GM dug us into this hole. I would try and package Marvin, Sheldon, Lue and Zaza to get Jefferson.

Quote: Josh Childress has really opened my eyes this season. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching him play the few times I have actually gotten to watch the Hawks play. Josh is just such a cerebral player that has better athleticism than anyone wants to give him credit for. Currently, he is the best on the team at moving without the basketball. He's a very efficient scorer who is one of the better rebounding and defensive perimeter players in the league. People like to complain about his jump shot, but it's only because his shot is ugly. Josh is shooting 53.3% from the field, 41.9% from the arc, and 82.4% from the free throw line. He's showing that his shooting from last year was not a fluke. That's what makes him so efficient, IMO. He doesn't take very many shots that he cannot hit. He's only taken 31 three pointers on the year, but he has hit 41% of those. 82games.com says that 65% of his shots come on the inside, so we know that Josh understands that he needs to take the ball to the hole. Also from 82games.com, Josh is assisted on only 44% of the times he shoots on the inside. That gets me to the conclusion I've come to about Josh based on his last two years. He'd be an 18+ PPG scorer with his ability to get himself open and move without the ball if he had a point guard that could set him up. At one point, I really wanted to deny that we really needed that and felt that Josh was simply the type of player that is better coming off the bench. I am no longer denying that fact now. I don't want to rehash this subject because it has been beaten to death, but there's no doubt in my mind that Josh Childress would be putting up even better numbers if the Hawks had drafted Chris Paul or Deron Williams instead of Marvin Williams. For the life of me, I don't understand why some think that drafting Josh Childress was such a horrible mistake. I am also enjoying watching Josh Smith play. When he wants to, he can dominate the game on both ends of the floor. I like to watch him when he is in that mindset. I believe he had that mindset last night. He was taking the ball to the hole, giving great help defense when needed, and was really harassing the ball handler on the perimeter. Picking JJ Redick's pocket in that game last night was one of the best plays in the game. I really like that this team has no quit in them. There was a span in December where I felt this team was about to give up, but they haven't done that. They have won 5 of their last 8 and are .500 in their last 10. Getting the Josh and Josh back seems to have sparked this run. Will it continue? I certainly hope so. Will they finish the the last 41 games of the season with a 20-21 record? I don't know. I think it is definitely possible, and it is possible that they could do even better than that. There are a lot of inconsistencies that may keep them from doing that. I think this brings up a legitimate discussion though. If the Hawks do finish the season that strong and get to between 35-40 wins, does Mike Woodson keep his job? Finally seen the light? Took you long enough.

Quote: ...if it's worth that much. Let's do it, numbered and free form style: 1. There is Joe Johnson, and then there is nothing. When Joe came out, we stood around looking at each other. That's not good and won't stand up consistently. 2. There are simply not any other players that can create their own shot. Josh Smith shot well tonight, but he seemed to settle outside way too much and the Hawks were fortunate that his shots from the outside went down tonight. It does seem a shame that this little attribute has not been addressed enough with these lotto picks....which leads me to: 3. Shelden and Marvin Marvin...I am not feeling you. You are a very passive fellow when you look like you should be aggressive. You have a long frame which should give you an advantage over defenders, but you seem clueless and unwilling to exploit that. Get over your wallflower tendencies and you may begin to make good on your potential. Shelden....What would you say you do for the Hawks? You seemed to get beat over the top for rebounds even when you had position. You seemed to not be able to contribute on the offensive end at all. You're short, slow, and not all that fundamentally sound on defense. You're not Antonio or Dale Davis. You have some mighty big work ahead of you big fella. 3. Zaza Pachulia looks like he needs help. Zaza was unable to create anything above an off balance shot for himself all night, even though the ball went to him in the post a good bit. He doesn't create for others with a good move or an instinct to pass. He's a decent backup, but his total lack of defensive presence was obvious, especially when Darko spun him. That's not good. 4. Salim Stoudamire is not the kind of player you need coming off the bench with a low tenured coach like Woodson. He needs discipline to shut down his unnecessary off balance jump shots. He thinks he's instant offense, but what he really is is a change of possession. 5. Josh Childress is fun to watch. Steady as a rock on both ends. But on offense he needs another gear to get to the rack. This is one player who desperately needs a playmaker at PG. Sadly, he's asked to bring the ball up some when Lue is not in the game. 6. The point guard position is atrocious. You can't have consistent play on the offense end without a playmaker controlling tempo. Joe Johnson is incredible, but not a drive and dish playmaker. He's a scorer. I couldn't help but think about the Marvin pick (which I am sure never happens here) and plug in one of the points from that draft. Childress would be that much better...as would Smith and everyone else. I am missing some, but here is the point: The Hawks are too shallow talent wise and too tools heavy roster wise to be relevant. They need a playmaker to help develop the younger talent. Also, this team is too young up and down to win consistently. Add in a coach cutting his teeth in the lead role and you have seen the results. This team needs some vets who are actually still able to contribute 30-35 a night to mix in with these kids. Babcock tried to build with 5 young guys as the nucleus and first time head coaches and it never developed. Guys stagnated without teammates who have been there to shoulder the load. Woodson can't hardly keep the team focused with so many kids to babysit. He needs quality vets (again, guys who should play 30-35 mpg, not over the hill or role players on winners) to help that load as well. I was happy to see the team win. Very happy. Only guy in the arena cheering happy. It looked bleak for a while , but Smoove and of course the Amazing Joe Johnson came through. Great to watch the Magic "fans" roll out when the game was still in doubt. But I don't believe you can count on that all year based on what I've written above....so there's still lots of work to do. Big man and point guard please....of course that's been on Santa's list for quite a while now. Good night, Hawks fans...We won tonight...Enjoy it while we have it. Than you Jaywalker. Excellent summary of the Hawks position.

Quote: Quote: I don't understand how the Celtics have won a single game without Paul Pierce.... Jefferson is a stud inside and Perkins can play some - but I agree vdunk. We shot 36% from the field and beat them at their place (they shot 31.6%). From what I saw last night I would not want any of Boston's three PGs. They play selfish and out of control basketball. I don't see how Celtics fans can put up with that mess up there. ......................... P.S. - I was stationed in Boston in the shipyard for a year (navy) years back and we were lucky enough to get some tickets through their "support the military" program...got to see the Celtics and Bird/McHale/Parrish/DJ in the old Garden. We were in the worst seats in the place but it was awesome. Now they are almost down to laughingstock status - sad. The same way we but up with the mess in Atlanta! Seriously, their squad last night was the equivalent of the Hawks playing without JJ. Once Jefferson, their lone remaining offensive weapon, went down, the Hawks were playing a D-League team.

I have said on a number of occasions that a trade for an established veteran big man is the best way to improve this team. A package involving some or all of Zaza, Marvin, Salim, Lue and the Indy pick should be put together to get a legit big man - someone along the lines of: Kevin Garnett Jermaine O'Neal Pau Gasol Basically the other team would have to be looking to get cap space or to rebuild and Marvin and the Indy pick are their primary objectives in such a trade. Yes it may be giving up alot if Marvin does in fact develop, but the Hawks have a glut of small forwards and with the offense offered by the newly acquired big man the defensive potential of Smoove and the headiness of Chill is a better fit and are more developed. The team would still have plenty of youth with the aforementioned Smoove and Chill, plus Sheldon. If you did say trade Marvin, Zaza and the Indy pick to Indy for O'Neal, I would follow it up with something along the lines of the proposed trade that was raised a few weeks ago on this board: Este and Salim for Haywood and Jarvis.

Quote: A loss is absolutely essential. This is our biggest game of the year. I believe Memphis is unpassable, but I think Philly will pass us. They have too many solid vets. Boston is the question. It is entirely like Danny Ainge to tank and focus on the draft. He's all about the draft. We need to beat them at their own game. I beg to differ. I think Philly is all about the tank right now. If they can unload a solid player like Andre Miller they will be even better at tanking.

Yup. Worst ownership situation in professional sports.

Quote: A race for the bottom. Predictions????? Would be pathetic to lose to the Celtics without Pierce. Al Jefferson is turning into a beast on the block for them.

Thanks.