Packfill

Quote: Quote: I am a Hawks fan, I am accustomed to small victories. The words "Hawks" and "victories" just don't look right in the same sentence. That made me laugh and cry all at the same time.

Quote: Quote: he would be a huge upgrade for the Hawks. faint praise I am a Hawks fan, I am accustomed to small victories.

I am not as sour on Noah as others because he does have good athletic ability and is a very good passer for a gig man. Smarts and athleticism in a 7' package can go a long way. If he is out of the top five by the time of the draft so be it, but he would be a huge upgrade for the Hawks.

Well, part of the rationale for stockpiling young talent is to trade it for veterans. Ergo, the next logical step is trading for a veteran who can make a difference. A couple of people, myself included, have thrown out the idea of creating some type of package with Zaza, Marvin, Salim, Lue and the Indy pick to get a bona fide post presence such as Garnett, J. O'Neal, E. Brand, P. Gasol, etc. If the ownership is willing to pay, then this is a viable way to improve the franchise. A coaching change goes without saying.

He is still better then anything the Hawks currently have.

I think the decision was made for us. The organization has given every indication that they have thrown in the towel - from the owners on down.

Exactly. And the Veteran backcourt - two guys who know how to set-up their teammates - would just be such a boon to the young frontline. Miller would create easy scoring opportunities for Smoove, Sheldon and Oden. Both Miller and JJ are unselfish and yet have effective offensive games. In other words, the veteran backcourt makes all the decisions and gets the young athletes the ball in position to make plays. That would be a really strong team right out of the gate and would only get better over the ensuing years.

I think too much youth is a bad thing. Young teams just don't win in the NBA. One rookie stud would be more then enough. For example, if the Hawks landed Oden, trade some combination of Marvin, Zaza, Salim, Lue and the Indy pick for a solid veteran point guard. Andre Miller would be great. Final piece would be a legit veteran big man along the lines of a P.J. Brown, just to set the tone for the young guys. Add a good coach and you have a potential 50 game winner: Andre Miller/Speedy Claxton Joe Johnson/Josh Childress/Dijon Thompson Josh Smith/Josh Childress Sheldon Williams/P.J. Brown Greg Oden/Solomon Jones/Esteban Batista

For the record, I think he will be better then that. Right away he might not be much better then that, but eventually a whole lot better.

Quote: Quote: Quote: I am suspicious we'll win something pathetic like 28 and lose our pick. Yay! Lost pick! Yay! Lost chance for improvement! Yay! Long-term mediocrity with no end in sight! At Center...Greg Oden At Pf...Dwight Howard At Pg...Shaun Livingston At Sf...Kevin Durant vs the All "Hawks' meaningless moral victories" team! At Sg...Bobby Sura At Pg...Tyron Lue At 6th man...Josh Childress Starting for Pheonix...??? Note: If we also included lousy drafting we'd have an NBA All-star team for the next 5-10 years. W Let's say best case scenerio Oden is a 10/10 player. Are we going to all of a sudden make the playoffs considering that we have a point guard who can't shoot or stay healthy and a #2 pick who has yet to develop, and a coach who can't coach? If that 10/10 comes along with superior interior defense then, coupled with the improving core of Joe Johnson, Josh Smith and Josh Childress, it would likely be enough to catapult the Hawks into the playoffs. This would be assuming a capable coach was brought in as well.

I was thinking the timing for the trade would be after the season, but if one of those guys is being given away then might as well get the veteran franchise big and hope for the best.

Quote: I think they are looking at players that could help chemistry. I think we should be looking for impact players. Gasol can be had for the right package. What about Marvin/SW/Zaza for Gasol? Then go after another big man like Ely. A couple second rounders or something. Ely/Lo Gasol/Jones Smith/Thompson JJ/CHildress Claxton/Lue Gasol and JJ would make an awesome combo. Throw in Smith and Childress and you have a team that can compete. Gasol can play a little center and Smith can play a little PF so I think we are covered. I like that line of thinking. The Hawks need to use their young assets (i.e., some combination of Marvin, Sheldon, Zaza, Salim and the Indy pick) to acquire a legit big man like Gasol, Garnett, J. O'Neal or Elton Brand.

Quote: Quote: I think one of our problem is that we dont have any white guys besides zaza. We need a guy like matt carrol or travis diener who can come in and hit some threes. anyone like a trade for jj redick and diener for smoove or marvin or childress? Matt Bonner, Mike Miller? Do we really need another small forward?

Quote: Quote: the point is that PHX isn't this GREAT team because of ATL. i dont think we had anything to do with them getting marion, nash, nor amare. so why the hell come on our board to rub in that they are good? because he's a 14 year old girl....we all know that diaw has nothing to do with where they are and if they had Joe Johnson instead of Diaw they would be even better.....but they don't They traded JJ because it enabled them to sign/resign Boris Diaw, Leandro Barbosa and Raja Bell - all for the same money. When you already have three players (Amare, Nash and Marion) that are better then JJ that is a no brainer.

Quote: (nm) Why? He is right. Phoenix is so loaded they don't even need a prospect like Rajon Rando. The rich (i.e., the Suns) get richer, while the poor (i.e., the Hawks) get poorer.

Quote: I think all teams know now to just double JJ and they have worn him out. Too bad Woodson doesn't have the mental acumen to figure this out and create a scheme to take advantage of the double teams by finding the open man.

This years Florida Gators college basketball team? Seriously - Horford and Noah are lottery picks, Brewer may become one, and some of thos freshman are supposed to be very talented.

Quote: It is hard for me to give credit to a guard for a high bball IQ when they have more turnovers than assists. Well he has a really high basketball IQ compared to most of his teammates. He is a basketball Einstein compared to Marvin.

Quote: Quote: . . . to a team that is missing its 3 best players? The Hawks are better at tanking than the Hornets! Agreed. Does anyone at this point think that the franchise hasn't already pulled the plug on being competitive this year?

Quote: Getting blown out by NOK without Paul, Peja, West and BJax. I thought the 13 win season and the start last season were bad but somehow this feels worse. It feels worse because our expectations were a little higher. Shame on me for believeing the Hawks could be semi-respectible this year.

. . . to a team that is missing its 3 best players?

Childress is proving to be a really good sixth man - good energy off the bench and excellent basketball IQ.

Quote: Let’s completely blow up the team trade everyone that is on the team now. Fire the coach and the GM. Oh yeah we need new owners cause they don't know what they are doing. Completely rebuild the team with your new GM. Make sure you get young players that can grow together. Make sure you get a coach that can handle new young players. Then give them bout 3 years to gel. But before they have enough time to work together for various reasons lets start the process all over again. This will make sure that Squawkers have something to talk about for ages to come. Completely satisfying both the optimist and the pessimist all at the same time. An ingenious plan in the making. Who'd-a-thunk-it. We keep you excited long enough to make you come to the games. When you tire of it we get you excited once again. An ever spinning wheel. The best part about it no one would be the wiser. Does that seem familure. Give the team some time people. Please. I would be willing to give this team time if it showed evidence of progress in year three of rebuilding, but it is not. Further, the complete lack of effort demonstrated by the Hawks players evidences that the system is broken. If fixing it is a simple as hiring a new coach then fine, but I am of the opinion that, failing landing a pick that allows the Hawks to draft Oden, this team needs a veteran standout in the frontcourt if it hopes to compete for more then a first round playoff exit in the next two years.

Quote: i know our team sucks now but I still don't think you can say that BK is some terrrible terrible GM.....coaching sucks, youth, and injuries have taken a toll on this team...i like his strategy of long athletic players. I like most of his draft picks, he has an eye for talent definitely i feel. has he made mistakes as far as not drafting for position? sure but he's not even in the same class as Isiah and is much much better than babcok...i would say he is average to slightly above average due to his eye for talent. I know you are trying to bring some balance to this board but lets call a spade a spade: BK is a terrible GM. The only draft pick he has made which can be characterized as a "value" pick or that has "exceeded expectations" is Josh Smith. Childress, Marvin and Sheldon are all high lottery picks that have yet to establish themselves as legitimate NBA starters. How does that translate into him having a great eye for talent? Childress is a really nice player but nothing above or beyond the other guys in consideration (arguably both Deng - one of the best players on the best team in the east, and Igoudala are better players today). The Smith pick can hardly be attributed to his deft eye for talent either since it was a completely obvious roll-the-dice on the local guy to make the fans happy pick. Did anyone really expect them to read another name when it got to the 17th pick? I sure didn't. This pick was an absolute no-brainer. Diaw was a nice enough pick but he completely gave up on him. Still, it is not like he was the steal of the draft (that honor goes to Josh Howard - how good would he look in a Hawks jersey!). Other then his draft record what does he have to hang his hat on? His trades? The only really good one was for JJ and even that has not been able to reflect itself in the win column. His other trades were essentially for draft picks that have resulted in nothing except Josh Smith. Signings of guys like Zaza, Speedy, Wright are mediocre as each are better served as backups. On top of all this BK has consistently ignored the importance of the two most important positions on the floor - Center and point guard. In each instance he has acquired bargain basement back-up players to fill starting roles. I say this even though I like the signing of Speedy. I think Speedy would be a great change of pace guy off the bench for 20-25 minutes a night. Problem is, we need him to be a starter. His most obvious shortcoming however is his disasterous record of selecting coaches. His coaches in Memphis were almost as bad as Woody. Basically the only way BK can right this ship is by bringing in a new competent coach in the offseason and trading away a few of the young duplicate forwards for a legitimate veteran post presence. Somehow BK needs to backage Zaza, Marvin, Salim and the Indy pick for Garnett or other big man with the heart to play defense.

They need to put JJ on the shelf for a week so he can get healthy. I want to see what this team can do with a healthy JJ, Smoove, Childress and Speedy. Any contribution from Zaza, Sheldon and Marvin would be gravy.