Packfill

I feel sorry for anyone that paid for a ticket tonight. Hawks made Indy look like a defensive juggernaut. Truly sad display by the Hawks tonight, Indy was begging the Hawks to win this game and Woodson could not deliver.

Quote: Quote: Good for the Hawks but bad for my fantasy team. priorities my friend But my fantasy team is in second place . . .

Good for the Hawks but bad for my fantasy team.

Quote: Its pretty obvious this guy is a moron man and doesn't know what he is talking about. We will easily win 20games this year. The upcoming schedule itself is pretty weak for this month. Were only 4 1/2 games back of the final 8th playoff spot and this guy thinks we won't win 20 games all year when we have already won 10 with ridiculous injuries through a 1/3 of the season. Your hilarious Mcclure!! I agree that we will easily win 20 games - 30 is another story though! But, how are we only 4 1/2 games out of the 8th seed? Milwaukee is currently the 8th seed and they have 7 more wins then the Hawks.

Magette makes zero sense for the Hawks - they already have plenty of swing men. What the Hawks need is a BOLD deal - package Zaza and one of Smoove/Marving/Childress for a real center or real point guard.

Haywood is a waste of size as far as I am concerned. I rather hold out for something a little better - although I don't think the Hawks give up much of anything in that deal.

1. Glenn Robinson - Horrendous player past his prime and just a stupid trade. 2. Isiah Rider - Certified jerk. 3. Alan Henderson - Wake up! 4. Danny Manning - Just because Dominique was my favorite and the reason I became a Hawks fan despite living in New York. 5. Salim Stoudamire - I don't understand why people like him since he is a less skilled version of Tyronne Lue, Tony Delk, Eddie House, etc.

The other thing that contributed to the Hawks early success was that JJ was absolutely on fire. Once teams figured out that they need to double JJ and no one else stepped up on a consistent basis the season was lost.

Quote: My note: Mr. Levenson, I am a passionate Hawks fan, but admittedly, even my patience has been tested. When you have a chance, can you please give me your take on the following?: 1. When can we expect a decision (ANY kind of timeframe) about the ownership situation? When will this dark cloud disappear? 2. What is your take on the Woody situation? Yes, we've been riddled with injuries, and yes, we have the youngest team, but don't you find our 4th quarter collapses and total lack of offense schemes (not to mention his looks of confusion and exasperation) a little disconcerting? Woody's going on 2+ years now, and it's clear we're regressing. If his job safety is because the ownership is still in flux, so be it, but I'd like to know your take. I would greatly appreciate any insight you can provide. Thanks! His response: I have been away and just getting caught up with emails. My patience is being tested too. Lets see what happens in the next couple of weeks as all are players come back. As for your questions, while the media may imply a dark cloud hangs over the team, the ownership situation has had no impact. The past two summers we went after and got the free agents we sought. We are also constantly exploring trades and if we find an opportunity to make our team better, we will do the deal. Once we are healthy, our coach knows we expect more success on the court and if he doesn't produce he realizes his job is in jeopardy. Recall, when we were healthy at the start of the season, we got off to a great start. I don't think it's fair to say the team has regressed given all the injuries. How's Miami doing with its injuries or Boston with Pierce out or Denver without Carmello (even with the addition of AI). We have been missing at least two starters for every game since the middle of November. Again, lets see what happens in the next couple of weeks. Have a happy new year. Best, Bruce He's a good guy - and a fair enough response. Thoughts? The only starters that really matter are JJ and to a lesser extent Smoove. Other then those two, the starters are virtually interchangeable (i.e., it doesn't seem to matter who starts at center since they all stink; Speedy v. Lue is a push; Marvin v. Sheldon v. Childress is a push).

Quote: It's good to see that we are doing something. To do nothing would be to take steps backward. We sorely miss Smooves offense and hopefully Dijon has something to contribute. Dude, if this guy can beat out Marvin and Childress for minutes this team is in trouble. Not a good sign.

Quote: Quote: So has everyone else on the roster apparently Marvin doesn't get a free pass from me just because he is young. Smith is young too and I didn't give him a free pass when he was playing poorly in november. In fact Smith played better as a rookie than Marvin is playing now. Let us not forget all these guys are 21 or younger and play significant roles on their respective teams: Dwight Howard, Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins, Luol Deng, Chris Paul, Josh Smith, Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, Andrew Bynum and Shaun Livingston.

I think expectations were sky high after the summer league so his poor play since his return is a big disappointment. Hopefully he will turn things around in the second half.

Can't disagree with that.

And I don't mean Lo Wright! No team is going to be successful starting a frontline that is completely wet behind the ear. JJ, Speedy and Lue provide some semblance of a veteran backcourt - although both Speedy and Lue are better served in backup rolls. What BK needs to do is trade one or two of the young guys for a veteran who can actually play 30+ meaningful minutes. This veteran should be either a center (preferably) or a power forward. Package Zaza, Stoudamire and one of Marvin/Sheldon/Smoove for a legit frontcourt presence. This doesn't have to happen this year (unless a good deadline deal can be made) but failing to do so will result in another year of losing basketball. Granted, this may only be a bandaid if one of the young forwards does not step forward as a legit starter, but it is the only way this team will ever sniff the playoffs. I also would consider firing woody now and seeing if an interim coach can instil some life into this squad, if only to confirm that it is infact a talent problem rather then just a coaching problem.

Quote: Quote: what is up with this "tanking" talk? the Hawks are in a precarious position right now in the city of Atlanta. they cannot afford to "tank" games. How would we know, at this point, if the losses were intentional or not? Thus reveals the true genius of BK and Woody. They have lost some many games over so many years Hawks fans couldn't tell if they were intentionally throwing games. Heck, there is a chance they intentionally lost games the past two years just to make it look like they are not intentionally tanking this year. Genius.

Quote: Hey again i'm not a BK fan by any means I just find it laughable that Ron is saying Babcock is so much better. They are both horrible GM's in my book. That we agree on! It is frustrating being a Hawk fan.

Quote: Sorry man but Bonzi and Posey are AT BEST complimentary players. Gasol is an allstar and dominant big man!! What are you talking about? But he is not enough to win a championship with, so what is the point. BK did not know how to bring in the complimentary pieces that make a team work. That should be obvious. Is BK's entire reputation based on one good draft pick? He has an absolute horrid track record for winning and picking coaches.

Quote: Again i'm not saying BK is any better but Babcock is awful! Do you realize we traded Nique for Manning(who was going to be UFA next season)? Why in the hell would you do that trade? Of course Manning was going to leave in the offseason to pursue a hefty contract. Friggin DUH!!!! We got zero compensation for the best player of all time to EVER wear a Hawks uniform. Your nuts if you think that was a good trade for the Hawks. HE also traded those same good character guys like SMitty and Mutombo for bums NOTHING. So whats your point. He trades for Smitty and Mookie but then trades them away and we go straight to the bottom of the standings again. No draft picks and no good players in return? He traded Terry for Walker to get cap relief and then traded Walker for draft picks moron! I don't even want to get into his horrible drafting over the years with numerous 1st round picks that were just downright laughable. I don't even think one of his draft picks is still in the NBA! Everyone on this board could have drafted better than Babcock. To BK's credit this is really only his 3rd year of the rebuilding process that had to take place because of Babcock's total BLUNDERS. Are you forgetting that Jerry West was winning in Memphis with ALL of BK's players as well? West came in and did nothing with Memphis going to the playoff the last 2 years with a whole roster constructed by BK. Like I said before both Babcock and BK are horrible GM's in my book. I just find it laughable that your saying Babcock was a good GM for the Hawks. Were now still living with the crippled franchise he left us with that we had to rebuild from scratch. West did make some very necessary and important changes to get that team into the playoffs. First and foremost was hiring a decent coach - something BK has never done. Second was acquiring the teams second and third leading scorers the first year they made the playoffs (i.e., Posey and Bonzi). I don't understand why people get all hot and bothered about the wonderful foundation BK built in Memphis. He did not exactly build a championship roster. Gasol is a good player, not a great one. Other then that BK only acquired complimentary players. Why is that such an accomplishment?

You are right. Babcock was worse.

Quote: Get real. Mike Fratello getting fired in Memphis has very little to do with them holding him accountable for the Grizzlies poor season and everything to do with Jerry West not being able to admit that he made drastic mistakes in putting together that team. Fratello is simply the next fall guy for Jerry West and his inability to build upon what Billy Knight had built in Memphis. Unlike the Grizzlies, the Hawks realize that there aren't many, if any, coaches in the league that would have done better than Mike Woodson if put into the Hawks situation during his first two years on the job. This is the first year that Mike has had a team that could compete night in and night out, and he just happens to run into the worst run of luck any coach could have. I bet the Hawks have more player games missed than any other team in the NBA at this point. This is why fans don't make the decisions. If it were up to the fans, the coach would be changed every year. Dude you constantly harp on what BK built in Memphis, but what did he build? He built a fringe playoff team at best and that was only with some decent player signings/trades by West in the interim (i.e., Posey (who was awesome that first year they made the playoffs, Gooden for Miller, etc.). Essentially the great building job you speak of involved one draft in which BK acquired Gasol and Battier. Big freakin deal. He fleeced Babcock. If that is his greatest achievement the guy does not deserve the meager salary he earns.

Quote: West traded their "glue guy" Shane Battier for a potential in Rudy Gay. Why did he do that if he wanted to go back to the playoffs? Why did he fire Fratelo, when he knew that Grizzlies migth suck after trading their "glue guy" and knowing that he wont get much of production from Gay? Battier was anchor of their defense, he always defended opponents best offensive players. He traded Battier because he knows that a core of Gasol/Battier/Miller is not enough to win a championship or do more than just compete for a low seed in the playoffs. He traded Battier gambling on Gay's potential - if that potential is reached (which is a big if) then he has a legit two star lineup and a shot at the title.

Quote: Quote: BK's vision ended up working fairly well in Memphis...they made the playoffs a couple times in the West with his players right after he left. What? The year he was fired, they still sucked. It took Jerry West a full year to turn around the mess that BK left (Sidney Lowe, Ike Austin, blah blah...). The players that were left from when BK was GM were just lottery picks, those are very hard to screw up so I don't see where you can praise BK for picking lottery players who stayed around long enough on a team to actually become good. And to answer the original question, I cannot think of any other GM that would possibly have a worst combine record in all the seasons he has been GM (it has been over SIX YEARS!). There may have been worse records in a shorter period of time and in a sport that doesn't play as many games as NBA (I am thinking of Matt Millen, he may have a worse winning % in less years, but not by much). BK has a bad record, correction a ridiculously laughable record that could be achieved even with a group of retards running a franchise. To paraphrase Parcells, "you are what your record is". This is the thing. Even when you do factor in that the team was going to fully rebuild with young players (which assumes a bad record), there is no possible way the team could have lost fewer games then it has regardless of the moves made after trading away SAR, JT, Big Hog and Theo.

Has there ever been a GM whose teams have a combined won lost record worse than BK? The combined won/lost records of his Atlanta and Memphis teams is pretty bad.

Quote: We need to go .500 to make the playoffs. That will require a 32-23 finish. We won't do that with Smoove missing the next 4 weeks. Here's what will happen. The team will continue to dump games until Smoove returns. We'll have the 3rd worst record in the NBA at that point. After he returns, we will play slightly better, but we'll still stink. By then, the whole forum will be talking "Oden". Then, in the last 20 games of the season, we'll go 13-7, vaulting us from the 3rd worst record to 7th or 8th worst. We'll then lose our pick to PHX. Some of us will bemoan that meaningless 20 game "hot streak". Others will berate us for wishing for our team to lose. They will exclaim that the last 20 games gave us "something to build on". Some will remind them of the Dwight Howard draft year. They will spit back with "You're not a real fan!"...except they'll spell it "your", of course. I've been a Hawks fan for a long time. I know how these things tend to shake out. So true. So sad.

Drafting Oden would potentially be a solution to alot of what ails the Hawks. He still has lots of work to do but he has the type of potential that you do gamble on.