Packfill

There is no way Boston would trade Al Jefferson for Marvin Williams. Jefferson has really been impressive over the last month - dude is a double/double machine. It will really be interesting to see how the careers of that high school class play out (D. Howard, S. Livingston, Smoove, Marvin, Jefferson, J.R. Smith, J. Noah, L. Aldridge, R. Gay, T. Thomas, etc.). Such a deep class, even if it lacks the true superstar of the preceding classes (i.e., Lebron and Carmelo, respectively) Howard is clearly at the head of the class by a large margin but Jefferson and J.R. Smith are having breakout years, Jefferson in particular. Livingston is finally getting some playing time so it will be interesting to see what happens with him.

Quote: No but I offer Orlando..... Marin Williams Shelden Williams Salim Stoudamire Indiana 2007 1st for Dwight Claxton / JJ / Smith / Howard / Oden I would do that deal in a heartbeat.

Quote: agreed. I saw a story i think on ESPN listing some teams hurt by injuries but of course they didnt mention us and we're probably hit worse (although houston losing tmac and yao is pretty big) than any of them. The Hornets are now missing there three best players. There have been a ton of injuries in the NBA this year - including many high profile players. The Hawks have had a lot of injuries but other then JJ none of the guys are established so to the rest of the world losing Marvin, Childress or Speedy seems more like lost depth then lost leaders.

Quote: Hawks have 5 players out, who wouldn't be a bad starting five, if all were healthy. Hawks dressed 10 players. Hawks lost by 27 points. Game wasn't even close to begin the 4th quarter. Nine players for the Hawks got extensive minutes. Even with all this, one player couldn't even get on the floor. I've heard of players being in the coaches dog house, but this must be some bad dog house that Batman has gotten into. Does anyone know what's going on? If Hawks had five of their players foul out, would he have been allowed to play, or would they have simply went with four players?? If he can't get into a game like tonights, when? Send him down to the NBDL if he not going to ever see the floor. DOG HOUSE??? Must be bad. You know something is wrong with the team when Graymule gets upset!

Quote: Belkin did not negotiate in good faith though and that will come back to bite him. He delibrately sabotaged the deal he agreed to and I think the Spirit group is banking on a higher court nixing this as a pre-meditated scam. I hope it does. He is scum. That said, I don't think the rest of the spirit group inspires confidence either. Kind of like picking the lesser of two evils.

I think the non-Belkin spirit group is dissapointing. I am not saying Belkin would be better, but these dolts let Belkin outsmart them on at least two occassions and that does not bode for the future (and it has further contributed to the Hawks poor reputation around the league).

Oden is definitely still a work in progress. He needs to get healthy and stronger to hold his position on the blocks. That said, I still think he is the best fit for the Hawks in the upcoming draft (if given the choice). Does anyone else think Oden looks alot older then he is supposed to be?

I hope it is only a jammed finger. Hurts like a son of a gun but definitely something you play through. Does Marvin not have any laces on his shoes? Seems b-ball shoes are getting uglier and uglier these days.

Quote: Who in the hell is going to Philly to play with Iggy and the Draft Picks? If one of those draft picks is Greg Oden then lots of people interested in winning a championship.

Quote: You obviously didn't see the 76ers between the Barkley and the A.I. eras. But who honestly would go to Philly for anything? Have you ever been to Philly? It has some great restaurants.

Not routing for them to lose. Not sure how you even got that from my post since I specifically said they are too talented to finish with such a bad record. Obviously I would love it if the Hawks could get Oden but I don't see the Hawks being bad enough to have a legitimate shot.

Not likely to happen. The Hawks are too talented. Plus, there is a reason why Philly is unloading AI now. They are gearing up for a historically bad season to position themselves to draft Oden.

Here is the fundamental problem: Over the past twenty or so years the vast majority of NBA champions have had hall of fame caliber big men in the middle (i.e., San Antonio w/ Duncan and Robinson; Miami and LA w/ Shaq; LA w/ Kareem; Boston w/ Chief and McHale; Houston w/ Hakeem). The exceptions are both Detroit teams and the Bulls. Bulls are not good precedent because Jordan is the greatest player of all time and thus his teams cannot be compared to any other. Both Detroit teams featured excellent coaching, veteran leadership, excellent interior defense and clutch all-star point guards. Now lets look at the current Hawks team in comparison to these past champions: (1) JJ is awesome but he is not Jordan; (2) there is no one on the roster that has the potential to be a hall of fame caliber post player; (3) the Hawks do not have great coaching; (4) the Hawks lack any semblance of interior defense; and (5) the Hawks lack a clutch all-star caliber point guard or even someone with the potential to be such a player.

Quote: Quote: The way this team is gonna improve is by letting the young guys lead this team with Joe Johnson. All our young guys need to touch the ball and get involved in the offense and defense. We should not have 9 year old veterans like Tyron Lue thinking he runs the team and shooting every time he gets it. This does nothing at all for the future of this team. We need to put the ball in the hands Of Smith, Marvin , Chill and Shelden and let them become players in this league. Let them get as many touches as possoble and play like a team. We are building this team around that core and we should play them that way. Im sure there will be ups and downs they will make mistakes but they will be more highs then lows Ill tell you that. Thats the only the way these guys will improve and be consistent night in and night out. The more these guys play and get inolved the better this team will be in the long run if were gonna lose games I dont want it to be by guys like Tyron Lue and Others playing big minutes shooting tons of shots for no reason. I have said it for months now this team will start to turn the corner when our young playes show big progress and start to lead this team with there on court play. Exatcly, i don't want to see Smoove just standing at the 3point line 3 years from now. I don't want to see Shelden's only offensive weapon is that jumper that he has 3 years from now. I don't want to see Marvin not getting the ball enough and not running plays for him in 3 years from now. I want Childress to get the ball and to run plays for him. These guys are too damn talented to stand and watch freaking Lue dominate the ball. Unfortunately we will see all of this with Woody here and if Billy hires a another challenged coah like him. That is exactly why the team needs a real point guard - to get these guys the ball where they are comfortable with the ball and where they have an opportunity to score. A good point guard could really do wonders for Marvin and Smith by getting them the ball where they can use their athleticism to overwhelm opponents.

1. I agree with AHF that we need a young dynamic point guard to develop as a future starter and someone who can immediately back-up Speedy. I would love Jack but realize he is not an option, if the Hawks can draft someone next year or get their hands on someone like Rondo, Marcus Williams or Jordan Farmar that would be great (trade Lue, Salim or both). 2. Need veteran defender down low - something Lorenzen was supposed to be. Not sure who that guy is but it needs to be someone who can set the tone defensively and show the young guys by example how it is done. Has to be someone that can actually play 20+ minutes a night. Woodson or whomever the coach is needs to bench Zaza, Smith, Sheldon or whomever if they don't d-up. 3. We probably need a new coach. No point in making a midseason move but I think if management really wants to take this team to the next level a new coach is a must for next season. 4. If Speedy is going to be the starting point guard then the team needs a shooter not named Joe Johnson. Salim does not make sense because he really would only play in place of JJ or Speedy. What the team would really need is a forward that can shoot from the outside. I am not sure if Marvin, Josh or Josh is that guy. 5. Even though the team will still be young next year I see absolutely no reason why it should be considered an excuse for why the team is not winning next year. I repeat, next year, not this year. Childress, Smith, Marvin and Sheldon will all hopefully continue to improve beyond next year but they all will have had a decent amount of experience and should start realizing some of their potential.

Quote: Quote: All Marvins points were during garbage time against the Knicks scrubs.. marvin had 10 at the half. Let's be honest, Marvin's game last night looked much better in the newspaper box score then it did live. That said, he was the highlight for the Hawks. Marvin does have a preternatural ability to draw fouls, but he has to get stronger. Every time he is fouled it he stops dead in his tracks or is tossed backwards. He also has to stop dribbling off his feet (but they look big so I guess I can understand). Is Sheldon in the doghouse? Why not play him? He is the best interior defender on the team - which isn't saying much - and needs to be in if the Hawks have any hope of stopping teams from running a lay-up drill. All-in-all the final margin of victory was closer then the game was.

Quote: Quote: And another thing, how in the hell can an impact defender be an avg defender? The are mutually exclusive. A defense that produces a high number of turnovers is impact. However, it may end up being an average defense because it gives up too many easy points. An example of a player like this is someone who gets a high # of steals but doesn't play good fundamental defense. High impact, average overall. Reminds me of someone who has been the topic of much discussion lately . . .

Quote: i still think most of our interior issues are youth and inexperience. and yes, that has to do with coaching to a degree but these kids are young and still learning those things...i'm not sure just what some people expect these kids to learn in one offseason. I hope it is just youth an inexperience. I do think that excuse has a shelf life though and next year is put-up-or-shut-up for these guys showing they can be quality NBA defenders. The team probably needs to add at least one more veteran to the roster though next year.

Quote: Both of those are solid points. The days of the dominant C are nearly over. Now it's all about the 3 forward system. BK was ahead of his time. The pendulum will always swing back again. Oden is coming. If one or two other guys emerge then the age of the center is back. Let us hope that whatever the trend, the Hawks remain on the leading edge, rather then trailing behind.

He doesn't.

Smith has but on a lot of upper body muscle, but that bulk does not help much when it comes to holding position on the block, that is more about leg strength, leverage and balance.

Quote: I'm very glad we got the win though. 8-9 looks a lot better than 7-10. Agreed.

Great win for the Hawks.

Smoove is an interesting case. He does have lots of potential and is still young, but this is his third season and he has received substantial playing time from the get go. Many other prep-to-pro NBAers with similar experience entering their third year have achieved higher levels of success in their third years in comparison to Smoove (i.e., LeBron, Amare, Dwight, Kobe, Garnett, etc.) The only high school entrants who did not emerge by their third year and have gone on to stardom are McGrady, O'Neal and Rashard Lewis, all of whom had much less playing time during their first couple of years. Obviously, the jury is still out on JR Smith, Curry, Chandler, etc. I just hope Smoove does not end up like Darius Miles - a guy with worlds of potential who never really closed the holes in his game.

My experience is that I don't really feel the effects of altitude until I hit about 10,000 feet, but I have been on mountains above 20,000 feet so I guess it is all relative.