Packfill

I thought the pick was lottery protected?

Quote: The fact is, Nene would have gotten his money one way or another, and the Hawks wouldn't be the team giving it to him. What good does it do for the Hawks to have Nene sign a one year tender and leave after his only season in a Hawks jersey? What benefit would the Hawks have gotten had they pulled a sign and trade for Nene and took back bad contracts just to be able to match what Nene's market value was, no matter how ridiculous his market value was? Not only are we talking about a player that is coming off an ACL injury, we are talking about a player that couldn't jump, rebound, or block shots before his injury. He is not worth what his market value turned out to be. Denver will find that out in a couple of years, when the combination of his contract along with Kenyon Martin's contract keeps them from being able to make the moves to get the role players they need to really become a force in the west. Exodus obviously thinks that trading for Nene at the deadline is better than getting a guaranteed mid-first round pick/possible late lottery pick. That does nothing but scream that we should have traded for Nene AND signed him to what his market value dictated. The Hawks owe Denver big-time for steping up and offering Kenyon a max deal. If not for that, he would have taken the max deal the Hawks offered and this franchise would be saddled with that albatross of a contract. Whew!

Quote: Our pick this upcoming season is top 3 protected so if we land with the first pick we will get Oden. Too bad the Hawks picked the wrong years to suck. Outside of an Orlandoesque miracle in the lottery, if the Hawks really are bad enough to get the first pick then there is a huge, huge problem with the current roster. I don't think the Hawks will be as bad as past years, but it is still going to be really difficult to make the playoffs unless the youngster continue to show meaningful improvement. Overall though, I am not worried about the playoffs this year - but if they can't make the playoffs next year Billy and Woodson need to hit the road!

I gave a B-. Definitely filled some needs but it seems like the team could have done much more to improve both in the short term and the long term.

The Hawks may have more potential then Indiana but the Hawks are still very young and that historically does not bode well for a teams playoff chances.

Quote: I think Toronto are basically our equals. They improved in the short run by trading a redundant piece in CV for a needed piece in TJ Ford. I think he will help get them easy buckets. Somewhere in the 8-12 range in the East. But yeah I probably have them a little high. I think Charlotte, NY, Boston will be the worst teams in the East. Actually, I forgot about Orlando. I'll take Orlando for the 8 seed. Upon further review and after looking at a full listing of the teams, I think the "tiers" and my guestimation of where they finish is roughly: I: 1 Miami II: 2 New Jersey 3 Indy 4 Chicago 5 Detroit 6 Cleveland III: 7 Milwaukee 8 Orlando 9 Washington 10 Atlanta 11 Toronto 12 Philly IV: 13 Boston 14 Charlotte 15 New York I think 8-12 will be very tight. I think that breakdown is pretty good. Pretty big gap between 1 and 2-6 and 2-6 and the rest.

I think Daniels is an upgrade over Jones and Johnson. Al/Peja is a push at this point. Really, their success hinges on health - but that is true of every team. If they have reasonable health, I just do not see how the Pacers are not one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the East. Every team in the East has a question mark. I think Lascar provided a 3 tier breakdown in another thread that makes alot of sense.

True, but there are three or 4 teams you can say that about - including the Hawks, Knicks, and Bobcats. All 4 of those teams have no track record of success and, with the exception of the Knicks, rely heavily on very young players. I am not saying the Hawks youngsters won't be good, but the NBA's elite are typical made up of veteran teams.

Toronto could be decent if someone steps up as a credible second option to Bosh. Big "if" though.

Quote: Thank you AL for 2 seasons with Hawks. remember when he spoked at Philips when Collier died. Al is a nice guy i wish him luck, but not the Pacers. I will miss his energy. Definitely seemed like the type of guy you want on your teamm - skilled, great attitude, leader, etc.

Quote: For the pick to make any sense... Marvin will have to become a bigger star than Smoove or Al and as big a star as Paul... Which is what I have said from the beginning. Agreed, but if the Hawks win a championship it is water under the bridge.

Quote: Smoove: Theo/SAR got us Sheed got us #17 pick got us Smoove This was a great trade sequence; who would trade smoove for theo/sar now? JJ: 1mil cash for Sjax contract for Al for 2007 indy pick JT for walker/delk for lal pick late 1st to draft diaw those 3 became JJ so JJ cost us a late first and JT and our great signing of sjax to a 1mil/year contract and swapping ours/indy's pick this year (which could be a GOOD thing if we finish above them!) This was a great trade sequence; Who would trade JJ for JT/late first/Sjax/swap back from indy's 2007 pick now? So our old team assets that BK had when he started the rebuilding 30 months ago was traded for JJ/Smoove We get Chill regardless since pre-post sar/theo trade had roughly same record, so Chill is either way We got Marvin from this rebuilding since we wouldn't have had #2 if we had kept sar/theo/jt So the JJ/Smoove/Marvin trio is pretty much what bk got for the assets he inherited Zaza/speedy/batman/lo were good signings that had nothing to do with our old assets Slim/Ivey were 2nd rounders we'd have either way (altho without the rebuilding, we wouldn't have gotten slim since he wouldn't have fallen to 40th pick) I, for one, would take JJ/Smoove/Marvin/Slim over Theo/SAR/JT/#40 last year any day of the week So I think BK has done a good job of upgrading our assets I also like the drafting of chill and the speedy/zaza/batman signings Lue/lo are just temporary jury is out on shelden Yes, we possibly could have done MORE without making the 'mistakes' that get harped on here all the time, like getting paul instead of marvin (jury still out there tho), not really getting anything for nazr, etc...but can u really say we haven't done a GOOD job of improving our assets in the past 30 months? I think if we can improve our assets and potential that much in the first 30 months of rebuilding, that we are doing a good job; nobody (other than kb) is saying we are doing a PERFECT job, but we are still doing a good job nonetheless and i think we shouldn't be so quick to call for BK's head There are a bunch of different ways to look at this. Would you trade Rasheed for Smoove? I guess Detroit still does that trade today because it helps them win a championship. For the Hawks, Rasheed would have made the team better but may not have resigned, so who knows. I am happy with Smoove, but it is not like we fleeced anybody to get him. JJ essentially cost JT, Diaw and a first. That is a lot to give up. Again, not like the Hawks fleeced anyone and Dallas and Phoenix are more then happy with those deals as well.

Quote: O'neal is less of a center than Zaza is. Harrington can't guard anyone. And Granger should be on the bench. I would take O'Neal at center any day of the week over Zaza, they are the same size. In the event they face a Shaq they have Foster and Harrison available. Harrington's defense is not great but Carlisle will get what he can out of him. Granger is talented, so not sure why he does not deserve a shot. Even if he is not ready to start they have Marquis Daniels available, or they can move Al to small forward.

Quote: In essence, they made a lateral move, and if they think that they can start a lineup of Granger, Al and O'neal in the front court they are nuts. Why are they nuts to start a frontline of Granger, Al and O'Neal?

That said: Memphis got the number 3 pick, Lo Wright and Brevin Knight for Shareef. NJ got I think two first round picks for Kenyon Martin.

Well, it is about the same deal the Hawks got for Rasheed and Antoine.

My summary of the trade: Could have been worse.

Quote: Quote: I realize new onwers cannot just be "brought in." The point, which you may have missed, is that it is becoming increasingly apparent that the owners are the weak link in this franchise. Either they are cheap or not bright enough to understand how contracts work. My hope is that the NBA gives them the full court press behind the scenes to encourage them to sell to a new unaffiliated third party. Regardless of who wins the court battle, the team will be handcuffed to one extent or another. I am just going to enjoy watching the Hawks' youngsters play and develop over the next couple years because they might not be here beyond that. I understand the situation very well. We have owners tied up in a lawsuit, and they have to put the development of the franchise on hold until it gets resolved. If you are hoping that the league steps in, I think that's a false hope. We are stuck with these guys. We can only hope that the Spirit wins out as quickly as possible. Hey, a man can dream! But you are right, a change of ownership (outside of Spirit or Belkin) is unlikely.

Quote: Quote: Best hope long term is that a new owner is brought in. Hello. Are we going to have to drive this point home? Owners are not brought in. BK can't sit back and acquire a new owner. I would like to acquire the Maloofs or Cuban, but that can not happen. Our owners will have to sell in order to have another owner "brought in." Don't you think Clipper fans want a new owner "brought in?" What evidence do we have to indicate that the league will step in and force our owners to sell? I realize new onwers cannot just be "brought in." The point, which you may have missed, is that it is becoming increasingly apparent that the owners are the weak link in this franchise. Either they are cheap or not bright enough to understand how contracts work. My hope is that the NBA gives them the full court press behind the scenes to encourage them to sell to a new unaffiliated third party. Regardless of who wins the court battle, the team will be handcuffed to one extent or another. I am just going to enjoy watching the Hawks' youngsters play and develop over the next couple years because they might not be here beyond that.

Quote: Quote: Quote: This sucks. It's clear that the owners are dead set on not taking on anymore salary. Agreed. I have defended them on that in the past but this is painfully clear. I hate to say "I told you so" but the Atlanta Spirit is not going to spend more than the salary minimum until the Belkin legal situation is handled. And btw, Belkin never plans on spending money on the team either. The difference between the two is that the Spirit group wants to spend money on the Hawks and Thrashers but not until the Belkin situation is over. Until then, well, we are screwed as a franchise. Life is always grand as a Hawks fan. Agreed. It is becoming apparent that the ownership situation is negatively affecting the development of the team. Best hope long term is that a new owner is brought in.

I see Sheldon as a classic power forward, with some scoring potential. Sort of in the mold of "pure" power forwards like Buck Williams, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, Karl Malone, Elton Brand, Zach Randolph, etc. All those guys are 6'9" or shorter, solidly built and broad. I don't remember anyone questioning what position those guys should play. I guess you could make the argument that Ben Wallace is a "center" but he is a somewhat unique player. Sheldon does not seem to fit in with the tall, rangy uber athletes that most equate with the modern day power forward center hybrid (i.e., Garnett, Howard, Bosh, Duncan, Aldridge, R. Wallace, O'Neal, etc.). If you wanted to go back a little further guys like Hakeem, the Admiral, Larry Nance, Kevin Willis, Kevin McHale and others may may be considered the precursers to the modern day hybrids, but they all seem to have alot more length then Sheldon.

I don't think people are questioning whether the Hawks have talent - they have some great talent but most of it is very young. The debates center around whether the Hawks' "talent" is distributed properly and whether the team is constructed to eventually win a championship. We argue about enough, so no point in making an issue of something that isn't an issue.

Quote: ......is the center of the future in the NBA. NBA teams are having to adapt to the talent that is currently in the league and coming up on the horizon. The true 7-footer that can run the floor, be a dominant offensive presence in the post, and defend is a dying breed. One may pop up every once in a while, but for the most part, the 7-footers of today are either going to be slow footed guys who are mediocre defenders, offensive players, and rebounders, or they are going to be extreme projects that may never pan out. Greg Oden may be the exception to this. By and large, the centers of today and tomorrow are going to be the guys who are in the 6'9" to 6'11" range. These centers won't have great size, but what they bring will be increidible athleticism and an uncanny ability to run the floor. Basically, the NBA is coming full circle. It's going back to the days when guys like the 6'9" Bill Russell, 6'9" Willis Reed, and 6'7" Wes Unseld were the dominant big men while the true 7-footer like Wilt Chamberlain was a once in a generation player. Too bad the Hawks don't have any of those PF/C hybrid players (with the possible exception of Solomon Jones experiment).

In retrospect that is an interesting deal. I know I panned it when it was discussed before the trading deadline (go ahead and dig up the posts). At the time I was not ready to let Al go. Smoove's improvement down the stretch definitely makes me more comfortable going into the season without a "proven" number 2 scorer. It will be interesting to see if Nene ever amounts to anything.

It is interesting that Sekou said Al could have been traded for more at the trade deadline.