Packfill

It really is weird that they have not had any of the top guys in for workouts. It is almost as if they are planning on a trade down. Who knows. I am still really torn on who I want the Hawks to draft. Aldridge and Williams are great prospects but they play forward and the team has already invested enough high picks on those positions. Center or point is the real need, but it is questionable whether any of O'Bryant, Sene, Foye, Williams or Rondo are worthy of such a high pick.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Larry Brown certainly forced his defensive will upon the New York Knicks. True, but in all fairness no coach could have gotten that ill-conceived roster to achieve on the defensive end. Curry, James, Crawford, Marbury, Rose, etc. all have long history's of less then adequate defensive effort (which explains why they have all moved at least once in their career). That same rationale could excuse Brown who was handed the youngest roster in the entire league given the struggles young players routinely have on the defensive end. Brown does have a more developed track record, though! I would agree if I saw the effort on the court, but I can't say that was the case - albeit I obviously don't watch every game.

Quote: Larry Brown certainly forced his defensive will upon the New York Knicks. True, but in all fairness no coach could have gotten that ill-conceived roster to achieve on the defensive end. Curry, James, Crawford, Marbury, Rose, etc. all have long history's of less then adequate defensive effort (which explains why they have all moved at least once in their career).

Quote: Defense is as much about scheme as it is talent. Pat Riley has always had defensive teams going back to his days with the Knicks (and even the Lakers). I thought that Woody would be a defensive coach, but he hasn't proved that to me yet. Agreed. Riley has the strength of character to force players to play defense. Larry Brown is the same way. Woodson just doesn't have it, or at least if he does, he hides it well.

I think that is exactly right. There are too many "problems" with the Hawks right now for anyone other then the diehards to get excited. I really think the ownership issue is a potentially huge issue because all of the owners are now so tainted and there is so much negativity surrounding them that it would almost be better if the team were sold to a new owner.

Quote: Quote: Quote: sigh that's not the point whatsoever i agree with us not taking shelden please re-read the post to get the point It is the point. Those pundits primary criticism will not be the selection of Sheldon, since his skill set fits very well with the Hawks needs, it will be the redundancy currently on the roster. In the end, as someone mentioned, the only way the Hawks will get respect is to win. That is how all franchise get respect. If the team does not win, it deserves to be ridiculed given the long history of losing, the ridiculous ownership mess, the logjam at forward and the void at point guard. The point is that the pundits will say in advance of the draft that Shelden is a good pick but after he is taken they will criticize the hell out of it. If they think Atlanta should go a different direction, they should not say that Shelden is exactly what the Hawks need or a great fit, etc. Do we really care what the pundits say? The "pundits" will bash the hawks and any moves they make until the Hawks win. It is really that simple, and is consistent with the treatment of most franchises - particularly where they can smell an "ownership mess."

Quote: sigh that's not the point whatsoever i agree with us not taking shelden please re-read the post to get the point It is the point. Those pundits primary criticism will not be the selection of Sheldon, since his skill set fits very well with the Hawks needs, it will be the redundancy currently on the roster. In the end, as someone mentioned, the only way the Hawks will get respect is to win. That is how all franchise get respect. If the team does not win, it deserves to be ridiculed given the long history of losing, the ridiculous ownership mess, the logjam at forward and the void at point guard.

What is the difference in contracts between the 10th pick and the 15th in terms of dollars?

Quote: All the draft experts, pundits, etc are saying we've promised Shelden and are taking him and it's good for us to take an established big with our #5 pick so it's what we SHOULD do Then as soon as we do it, they'll all bash us for picking another 6'9 forward and say we messed up again Well they would be right on both accounts. The team would be flawed as it would have its last 4 first round picks, three of those lottery picks, invested in forwards. It just doesn't make a lot of sense unless they trade someone.

the description of Sene reminds me of the write-ups about a prospect from a few years ago - Malik Badiane (sp?). I think he was drafted by Houston but I do not think he has played in the NBA to date. Sene is an intriguing prospect but has a huge bust potential so is not a legitimate candidate for a top 5 pick, let alone a top 10 pick. He could blossum, but the odds are against it.

That is cold man, very cold.

If that report is accurate, then Williams and Rondo are back on my wish list. If you could combine the athleticism of Rondo with the skills and mental accumen (as it relates to basketball) of Williams you would have one heck of a player.

Agreed, Dougherty was a very good player and definitely worthy of the number one overall selection. The only thing that derailed him was injuries. Think of it this way, he would easily go number one in this draft, last years draft and just about any draft in recent memory sans LBJ. Also, Price and Harper were excellent players in their prime as well.

Let's not get carried away. If the Hawks can win the support of the city of Atlanta that would be a huge start. Baby steps. Of course, comptetent ownership would help.

If that were to happen the entire team would be Williams, Smiths and Johnsons. Probably the three most common last names in America.

Quote: If Seattle is trading out of the first round, they'll simply do what Phoenix did a few years ago and get a future first rounder in the trade. They're not going to "give away" their pick. To suggest such is silly, irresponsible journalism. Agreed. Getting a top ten pick for a couple second rounders is a pipe dream. Plus, any team looking to save cash will be more inclined to trade away players then picks - the #10 pick is a relative bargain basement contract in the nba these days. Only way the Supersonics trade the picks away is if someone also takes one of the bad contracts of their hands.

Quote: Shelden Williams and Wayne Simien are totally different players. Shelden is taller, longer, stronger, more athletic, and plays defense. Simien is an undersized offensive player without much athleticism. While Shelden may not quite have the star potential you want out of a number 5 pick, he's definitely worthy of a top 10 pick and he's just what we need, so it wouldn't be a mistake to take him at 5. I am curious as to why some people do not think Sheldon has enough "potential" to be a #5 pick when this franchise recently used a #6 pick on Josh Childress, who has less "potential" then Sheldon. Sheldon is faster then Childress, despite weighting 60+ pounds more then Childress. Don't get me wrong, I like Childress and his game but the reality is he is a complementary player - the type of guy every team needs. Sheldon may never be a 20 point scorer, but he may be a double figure rebounding guy who plays good interior defense, which any franchise could use, especially this one. I am definitely not sold on Sheldon as the pick, but for people to say he does not belong in the conversation as far as consideration for the #5 pick is illogical.

Quote: Quote: Strictly playing Devils advocate, but what is going to happen when Shelden is no longer the strongest guy on the court? That's what I've been saying all along. I'm just very nervous about it. IT's so hard to tell with guys like that. Sometimes it carries right through and you wonder why you ever doubted them, and sometimes they fizzle Could not agree more. We are all guilty of overanalyzing these things. It is also very difficult to predict who will and who will not break out as professionals, which is an entirely seperate issue from overanalyzing.

He is definitely undersized for center but has plenty of size for the power forward position.

Some of Sheldon's wingspan is attributable to his broad frame. I imagine if they did a standing reach test he would not measure out as well as some of the string bean types whose wingspan is based largely on the length of their arms.

Interesting. Sene has ridiculously long arms but it will probably take 4+ years for him to make something of himself. O'Bryant has a lot of size going for him. Aldridge is some serious weight room time away from being a center. Sheldon Williams and Cedric Simmons definitely measure out as legit power forwards. Tyrus Thomas is Josh Smith II.

The reason why Belkin's objection to the first proposal was an issue for the other owners is the fact that Belkin choose the first appraiser. The contract should have been drafted to provide only the party that does not pick the appraiser the right to object. Belkin essentially gamed the situation. He picked the first appraiser and then immediately objected so that he could also pick the second appraiser. He tried to control the whole process. This is obviously (at least one would hope) contrary to the spirit of the deal that was struck (presumably that each side would have a chance to pick an appraiser). The real issue is whether this is contrary to the letter of the actual contract. Courts always look to resolve a contractual dispute by first looking within the "four corners" of the agreement. If the answer is not there, then they can look at course of dealing, customary practices in the industry, etc.

Maybe. But if BK says he likes him I am sure you will change your tune, just like with Sheldon.

Yikes, Tyrus Thomas is small. I don't want the Hawks to touch him now. Aldridge passes the height test, as does O'Bryant. JJ Redick, dumb ass for getting arrested, but size is no longer an issue. Think Hersey Hawkins.

Quote: Nonsense. AOL didn't have to sell the Hawks. They CHOSE to do so. If this group hadn't gotten their offer on the table at that point, AOL would have just moved on. Plus, there are no reports that there were no other bidders. Bernie and Billy have no reason to tell loyal season ticket holders a lie about this. Um, AOL wanted to sell and quite frankly the team would be better off if AOL did move on to another bidder. Bernie and Billy are trying to cover the owners asses by attributing the confusion to the compressed time frame involved in the purchase of the franchise. Seriously, it appears these guys have screwed up several times already.