Packfill

It sounds like they have screwed up at least two agreements so far.

Quote: Unless they're lying, AOL told them they had 10 days to get it done. Doesn't seem like it's their fault unless they're flat out lying which I doubt. They weren't asked these questions. They decided to tell us these things. The thing is there is no way AOL had any leverage to require a contract in 10 days - there was no other buyer. I know I would never advise a client to make such a move. How can you spend that type of money without being given an adequate opportunity to to diligence the business? Besides, the 10 day window could not possibly have included the negotiation of a definitive sale agreement with AOL. I am not sure why they proferred that info other then as an excuse for how incompetent they look.

That whole concept that the ownership group only had ten days to get a deal done is BS. If they did not get a deal done there are no other buyers, so it is not like the team is going anywhere, and the league was not interested in another mess after the McDavid fiasco. Basically it is cover for not paying attention to detail. Again, the Hawks need a "white knight" buyer. All of the current owners appear to be damaged goods at this point.

Not encouraging. Essentially, even if the "good guys" win, then should probably sell the team to save face and restore some respect to the franchise. These guys are just too tainted and do not appear to be detail oriented. The Hawks need a white knight.

Quote: I strongly prefer Randy Foye over Marcus Williams. I believe Foye is a better fit than Williams and a better contrast to what we have in Joe Johnson. Foye is better than Williams at playing off the ball, and that's something that is going to happen regardless if fans believe it should. Joe Johnson is simply too good to completely take his playmaking skills away and make him a traditional shooting guard. Plus, Foye is a much better defender than Williams. This is one of those odd drafts where you have about 5 players that could go in any order, and it's really hard to say who is a reach and who isn't. People can make a strong case that Patrick O'Bryant is a reach at the 5th pick. Randy Foye, Marcus Williams, Shelden Williams, Patrick O'Bryant, and Ronnie Brewer could go in any order. Can Foye bring the ball up court? I hear all this talk about being a running team but the Hawks lack a guy who can really push the ball up the court to make them a running team. JJ is a good ballhandler and can distribute in a halfcourt situation, but he is not a guy that pushes the pace up the court. If Foye can be that guy who can push the ball and creat on the fast break then I agree he is a good fit, particularly in light of his strong defensive reputation. Also if he can take the ball to the rim and can distribute in the process that would be good too. A Tony Parker type is what the Hawks need - push the pace, penetrate and score or distribute, hit the open shot, etc.

Because the Hawks are still too young. Marvin, Smoove and this years draft pick are another year or two away from really being able to take the team to the next level, at which point Cassell is 40 and useless.

The worst part of this whole thing is not the fact that Belkin may or may not get control of the team, it is the furthering of the public perception that the Hawks as a franchise are a bunch of bumbling morons. This perception will have a negative impact not only in terms of fan support (which obviously was not great to begin with), but also greatly hinder the team in attracting top free agents over the next few years. It will take a year or two of turmoil free clear ownership before that perception changes. I still do not think Belkin comes out on top, but the damage is done, almost to the point where the other owners may need to sell (even if they win versus Belkin) to fully clear the air surrounding the franchise. It is unfortunate, because they seemed to have good intentions, but they are now tainted goods. I don't think Smoove and Marvin will be happy campers when it comes time to renew their contracts.

Quote: Are you trying to say that Josh didn't have potential? Because if you are, then neither Andre Iguodala nor Luol Deng have potential either, since Josh has been as good if not better than both of them. Do you honestly think Josh Childress will ever average 20 points per game? If not then, according to your logic, he was a waste of a draft pick.

Quote: When you have the 5th pick in the draft, you have to shoot for someone that you believe is capable of putting up those kinds of numbers. You don't settle for a guy who was a productive college player but is lacking in many things that will keep him from ever being a great player at the pro level. Was that BK's perspective when he drafted Josh Childress with the 6th pick?

Quote: Funny. That athleticism was never shown when he was facing longer, more athletic players like Collis Temple III and Winsome Frazier. Go check out his stat line in the LSU game, and pretty much every game where he has faced a long, athletic defender. These are the same excuses you used for Paul last year.

Quote: Felton got more playing time? Is that why Chris Paul lead all rookies in minutes played? Don't be myopic. At the end end of the year Felton's minutes increased dramatically - which is one of the reasons for his improved statistics.

Quote: He didn't get any better as the season went along, did he? Raymond Felton did. Please do not tell me you are as big an idiot as that statement makes you seem. Felton played on a team which was ravaged by injuries, so he got more playing time and yes his numbers improved. Paul played all year at a very high level and helped his team win a lot more games then anyone could have predicted.

Chad Ford said he saw Billy Knight and Billy King have a long conversation in the hallway. Gulp.

That is why, in my view, getting someone with that type of production with the 5th pick is a good thing. Really, I just love playing devil's advocate when someone (usually KB, Diesel, Hotlanta or Walter) take some extreme all or nothing view.

Quote: I also wouldn't use his college stats in an attempt to prove that he's worth the 5th pick. This is a player that I seriously doubt will average more than 15 points and 10 rebounds a game in his NBA career. I simply do not see the upside. I don't want a guy who just gets me 15 and 10 with the 5th pick in the draft. I'd rather take a chance that Patrick O'Bryant will give me 20 and 10 at some point than to take a guy I know will never be able to do that. This is crazy. How many guys in the league can average 15/10? If someone offered me a player that could average that for his career right now in exchange for the 5th pick it would be a no-brainer deal, especially if that guy is a good low post defender. How many guys picked 5th or higher have never even sniffed those numbers for their career?

Quote: Quote: ...and who went higher? Okafor or Howard? Dude seriously are you high right now? First you say Shelden didn't improve at all when he obviously did. An improvement of 3.3 ppg and 8% from the line is statistically significant. A decrease of .004 in his fg percentage isn't. Then you try to change the argument and say that Shelden should be averaging 23/13, which nobody has done in recent memory in any major conference. FYI there is no Dwight Howard in this year's draft. Not to mention we are talking about the 5th pick, not the first. Totally different scenario. If Childress is good enough for the 6th pick it is hard to make an argument that Williams is not good enough for the 5th pick. I am still not sure who the Hawks should pick, but if they go big at 5 then Williams, O'Bryant and whomever is left between Thomas and Aldridge is definitely in the conversation. If the Hawks go guard, then Roy and Foye are in the conversation, with Williams and Rondoon the outside.

Lots of people have greats games every now and then. Few dominate consistently. Tony Delk scored 50 points in a game once, doesn't mean he is as good as Kobe. If Simmons is that big and athletic why did he not consistently dominate in college? In the pros his athletic advantage will be much smaller, or non-existent. Again, he is an interesting talent, with alot of upside, but he is far from a sure thing.

Simmons is intriguing but scary in a Stromile Swift type of way as well.

Quote: Upside is not mythical. It is very real. At best, Shelden Williams will be an Antonio Davis type of player in the NBA, and you don't take an Antonio Davis with the 5th pick of the draft. BK took Childress with the 6th pick in an argueably better draft, and he has athletic limitations and was not as good a college player as Williams. Alot will depend on what Sheldon measures out at - if he is 6'7" that is a problem but if he is a legit 6'9" then he definitely belongs in the discussion of who the Hawks should pick at 5. Plus, an Antonio Davis in his prime is pretty much exactly what this team needs.

Quote: Cedric Simmons doesn't seem like the type of guy who has a real feel for the game despite being a bit of a physical freak, and O'Bryant has better size but is also rumored to be less than a hard worker. Both guys have more physical upside than Sheldon, but upside isn't everything. Plus, I don't think Sheldon NEEDS to get any bigger. He's already a strong, thick, long-armed 6'9 with great timing. He works hard, rebounds, block shots...what's not to like other than that you don't think he has that magical "upside?" Well said. I do think Sheldon might be a reach at 5, but to completely dismiss him as an NBA player is comical. It is almost as if production at the college level is unimportant these days as long as you are athletic and have some mythical "upside."

Again, it is amazing how down people are on the top college players. Both Redick and Morrison dominated in college. You cannot over look that. To me Redick is a Jeff Hornacek type player. In other words, a really good player that can help any team. Morrison defies labels, the dude just wants it more then anyone. If someone like Aldridge or O'Bryant had Morrison's determination they would be all-world prospects.

Quote: If only we had a decent point guard..I would love to at times see a team of pg/JJ/Chillz/Marvin/Smoove..To hell with defense..Run people into oblivian.. No kidding. The only way that type of system works is with a point guard who can run the break. Hawks do not have that now.

Quote: I'm sorry to disagree EDS, but I don't think he's what the Hawks need at all. We already have 6'8" and 6'9" players with good upside at SF and an occasional spell at PF...but the biggest bang for our buck is not Shelden, it's a PG or a big. PERIOD. I understand he does grunt work, etc..etc, but I'm just not wanting the guy in a Hawks Uniform. Look at what he does though. The Hawks need a good rebounder, a good low post defender and a good shot blocker. Check, check and check for Sheldon Williams. Dude is thick too, which is the opposite of the typical welterweight forwards the Hawks have. Remember height is not everything. Ben Wallace is 6'9" but is exactly the type of player the Hawks need. Alonzo Mourning was maybe 6'10", same with Hakeem. Similarlly Moses Malone, Bill Russell were maybe 6'10", Wes Unseld was even shorter.

Everyone is pretty quick to judge sheldon around here. The really interesting thing is that based on his college production he is EXACTLY the type of player the Hawks need. Whether he can translate that to the pros game is up to the professionals to decide. My biggest concern is his size vis-a-vis the larger NBA players he will be playing against. That said, people dismiss him because of his limited "upside" when all of the guys that have so much "potential" are really just guys that we all hope can produce the way Sheldon already has.

Quote: agreed. But there is not perfect guy out there. If we're taking a big, he's going to be flawed in some way. Either he's going to be smaller than we'd like, not as defensively oriented as we'd like, or there will be questions with desire. But as we know there were the same questions about J Smith. The question is what would you rather gamble on. Personally, I'd rather gamble on O'Bryant developing the right attitude rather than gamble on Shelden Williams growing 2-3 inches. At 5, if the Hawks are going big, then I agree gamble on potential since all of the bigs in the draft have some flaw and all are projects. O'Bryant definitely fits the mold of what the Hawks need better then any player in the draft, but he is a huge risk, with big time bust potential. The real question is whether the Hawks go with more of a sure thing by taking a guard - I am thinking either Roy or Foye. Both seem talented enough to warrant such a high pick and while neither is a likely superstar, they certaintly have a high probability of being good players. Again, I am totally torn over which way to go. BK needs to figure out whether these big men projects are stiffs or studs.